Ariza:
If this is the case then why is no one really investigating on the cause and get to the Root of this. You know I so find Most Nigerians very shallow and hypocritical. If married woman engage in abortion more then how such women can condemn same act in others beats my imagination. Selective morality at work again isn't it?. Are they not endangering their lives too? Aren't they commiting murder too? Aren't they supposed to take responsibility of their sexual lives, calculate their flows, "get educated about their system" to avoid pregnancy like I'm read some ladies instruct on this thread. Lol But then Na single ladies enter trouble for 9ja.

That's not even where I'm going, My issue is why aren't women seeing the need to involve men in birth control. Why do they exclude men or Male child from sex education and taking responsibility? Why are Men not taught how to keep their bodies too?
Now this isn't feminism or equality reasoning it's just how any sane individual will reason. So far with all the morals and fear we all try to instill in the female child look at where it got us. When a society makes a specific gender the moral keeper and allow the other to live freely, then it is only a matter of time before morality is destroyed. It is either the free one corrupt the morally trained one or the latter lose strength or willingness to keep up. We create a fence and also create erosion in the same society and we expected flood free environment. We be jokers ! Bunch of jokers! .

Men should be held responsible for pregnancy just as women. It takes two to tangle, ovary and sperm to for embryo. You can't blame just one gender because she's the carrier. Then sex education and abstainance should be inculcated in both genders.

Good luck holding men for pregnancy in a country like Nigeria. I'm yet to see it working as we fantasize. How i wish too it works.
All the small small answers you want are explained in my previous posts.
I won't go round and round on this topic again. No vex o

Acidosis:


Lol. The thing shock me my sister

See my brother, any reasonable woman knows that in the game of sexuality, men have a slight edge.

I remember one thread years back where they asked who could marry a virgin man and only myself and a few others agreed to.

It used to vex me before when I saw a virgin or someone with few body counts married to a used up man till I realized these red pillers have most of these women nailed to a T.

Or a brolosho (according to NL) yapping that he wants a virgin after 1000+ body counts and make no mistake, he will get her if he is serious.

Most women don't place importance on a guy's sexual past, most men do for women that's why the women keep reducing body counts and lying about virginity and sexual experience. The two men I know married as virgins specifically prayed for virgins. According to one, after keeping himself, he will now marry a used up woman? You needed to see the disgust on his face.

Everybody must know their leverage, disadvantages and play this game of life to favour them.

The Bible has done that, they said it is old school so they should look for new school to play the game to really favour them.

lalanice:
It means Nigeria men are not Reliable.

Nobody is happy to be risking their lives necessarily.

You blame abortion on the man? Shame on you.

sassysure:

But I never said we will only teach our daughter
We will teach all of them BUT more puking the ear for our daughters.

Our society is shit. A guy on the first page here said a babe almost died when they did concoction abortion and ended up taking her to hospital. Now he is married to another babe. Why didn't he marry her?

That guy who gave you belle, and u did abortion with his knowledge will not marry you.
Babes don't let guys know they did it, else, end of love.
If a guy will not marry you after making you do it, then why will you allow yourself get pregnant in the first place.
Love is never blind o.
Shine your eye.
Unless u believe in juju

You think it is our society?

Is it Nigerian men that invented red pill and body counts?

It is like that everywhere.

MoodyQueen:
100% about women?

OP, are you suffering from selective amnesia?

Or is it just convenient to ignore the community pricks who refuse to wear condoms and those who engage in the act of stealthing??

Are you for real? Who has more to lose from having unprotected sex?

Unnerve:

Have a drink, eat some veggies, perhaps have some orgasmic sex, then sleep in cool temperature. Immediately you wake up, do nothing else but read only your comments on the thread.

I will do all this in exactly the same order.

bukatyne:


Can you share any moral code that encourages sex before marriage?

Based on this thread and the OP it’’s safe to say “no sex before marriage” is the personal moral code of a very few in Nigeria which does not include you.

cococandy:


And with this, the thread can be closed.

Dunno what any further debate should be about.

Except to say “don’t teach boys” .

I really don't understand at all why we have been debating if 50% of the population should be responsible or 100% of the population.
My brain can't process this insanity.

Hathor5:


The society is shit because of attitudes such as this ...



It takes two people, a man and a woman, to have a pregnancy.

Dear, get pregnant and let Nigerian society congratulate you.
U are responsible for your body. As simple as ABC.

It's not a feminism, menism topic. I'm using a realistic approach here as one who grew up in Nigeria.
If your daughter get belle, go and hold the man.

When a man complain he has std in this same nairaland, guys like him will descend on him. Why didn't u use condom, don't you know girls are hoes etc. It's his problem strictly. Wetin concern the babe. So also if a babe get belle, it's your shit, not they guy.

I think I'm going round and round.

And I saw where u were making it look like I said we should not educate our sons consistently, trying to push it on me to accept what you were projecting.
Continue .

Stop spinning it babe. It gets our girls nowhere.

bukatyne:


You think it is our society?

Is it Nigerian men that invented red pill and body counts?

It is like that everywhere.

Nope, it's not.
Here that I live, if you get belle, you are covered. It's like insurance.
And the two of u will take responsibilities.

But in naija, babe run for your life o

Ariza:
If this is the case then why is no one really investigating on the cause and get to the Root of this. You know I so find Most Nigerians very shallow and hypocritical. If married woman engage in abortion more then how such women can condemn same act in others beats my imagination. Selective morality at work again isn't it?. Are they not endangering their lives too? Aren't they commiting murder too? Aren't they supposed to take responsibility of their sexual lives, calculate their flows, "get educated about their system" to avoid pregnancy like I'm read some ladies instruct on this thread. Lol But then Na single ladies enter trouble for 9ja.

That's not even where I'm going, My issue is why aren't women seeing the need to involve men in birth control. Why do they exclude men or Male child from sex education and taking responsibility? Why are Men not taught how to keep their bodies too?
Now this isn't feminism or equality reasoning it's just how any sane individual will reason. So far with all the morals and fear we all try to instill in the female child look at where it got us. When a society makes a specific gender the moral keeper and allow the other to live freely, then it is only a matter of time before morality is destroyed. It is either the free one corrupt the morally trained one or the latter lose strength or willingness to keep up. We create a fence and also create erosion in the same society and we expect flood free environment. We be jokers ! Bunch of jokers! .

Men should be held responsible for pregnancy just as women. It takes two to tangle, ovary and sperm to for embryo. You can't blame just one gender because she's the carrier. Then sex education and abstainance should be inculcated in both genders.

I am going to address specifics in this post.

1. The married woman MOST likely has the number of kids she & hubby wants and she is aborting for her husband except the case of adultery. I am not condoning abortions here; I am stating the difference between a married abortionist and a single one.

2. Why are men not taught to keep their bodies: Because women do not value it. I said on a thread months back that any vice so visible in a society is tolerated by that society. The average Nigerian woman is NOT interested in/ does not value the sexual purity of a man (even one who is a virgin). This is NL with a wide range of audience. Open a thread on how many women want to marry virgins or sexually naive men. Let's do the count. Open a thread on women who would ensure they marry a man with few body count and let's talk. I 100% agree that boys and girls should be taught sexual responsibility and abstinence. That means there can be NO sexual liberation in such a society.

3. Men were once held for pregnancy everywhere in the world hence shotgun marriage. I believe you are Yoruba and the phrase 'O ti fun yon loyun' or 'talo fun e loyun' is very common. I gave a robust response to someone here (I will link it up). Forty years ago, a man knows getting a woman pregnant is automatic marriage. The question is 'what changed?'
https://www.nairaland.com/5934250/nigerian-women-abortion/4#90809842

liberalchick:

Based on this thread and the OP it’’s safe to say “no sex before marriage” is the personal moral code of a very few in Nigeria which does not include you.

Whatever makes you sleep at night maami.

Anyone willing to take up the challenge:

Which moral code encourages sex before marriage?

I know Christianity, Islam and our local customs don't.

sassysure:

Nope, it's not.
Here that I live, if you get belle, you are covered. It's like insurance.
And the two of u will take responsibilities.

But in naija, babe run for your life o

With both sides taking full responsibility, it still doesn’t reduce the fact that the woman will bear more of the physical brunt of it (at least the pregnancy and nursing part of it).

But guess what? That doesn’t remove ANYTHING from the argument of teaching and holding men to prevention standards. Which is why I don’t get need for a debate. There should be zero debate on this topic

sassysure:


Dear, get pregnant and let Nigerian society congratulate you.
U are responsible for your body. As simple as ABC.

It's not a feminism, menism topic. I'm using a realistic approach here as one who grew up in Nigeria.
If your daughter get belle, go and hold the man.

When a man complain he has std in this same nairaland, guys like him will descend on him. Why didn't u use condom, don't you know girls are hoes etc. It's his problem strictly. Wetin concern the babe. So also if a babe get belle, it's your shit, not they guy.

I think I'm going round and round.

And I saw where u were making it look like I said we should not educate our sons consistently, trying to push it on me to accept what you were projecting.
Continue .

Stop spinning it babe. It gets our girls nowhere.

It's still their baby.
He may run away. Some will even still sleep peacefully, many will not.
You impregnate a girl from the right family, your arms and legs will be broken.
No reason to tell anyone that it is the girl's job alone to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
It's simple dear.

cococandy:


With both sides taking full responsibility, it still doesn’t reduce the fact that the woman will bear more of the physical brunt of it (at least the pregnancy and nursing part of it).

But guess what? That doesn’t remove ANYTHING from the argument of teaching and holding men to prevention standards. Which is why I don’t get need for a debate. There should be zero debate on this topic

Infact, I am yet to see where I said we should teach our boys how to do the right thing na

Some men are good, they will do the right thing. What about those that won't.

If it still don't favour the girls, why get pregnant in the first place?
That leads us back to my first post of prevention

Prevent yourself from getting pregnant and everybody will be happy.

sassysure:

Good luck holding men for pregnancy in a country like Nigeria. I'm yet to see it working as we fantasize. How i wish too it works.
All the small small answers you want are explained in my previous posts.
I won't go round and round on this topic again. No vex o

Lol.... You are so funny. Very funny!

Growing up My father a Yoruba man will always tell my sister and I "Omo to ba loyun , education eh pari nite" meaning if any of us that get pregnant that's the end of that person's education. And he will tell my brothers : " ti o ba fomo loyun education e pari niye, odi baba omo niye" meaning if you impregnate a lady, that's the end of your education and the beginning of fatherhood. . My mom's own is worst. She will tell them if get anyone pregnant, she will only buy them shawl they will use to back babies.

What's the point? We were trained responsibility. We were taught how to make right decisions. We weren't frightened with what society will say. We were made to realize direct consequences of what our actions can do to us not what how the society will see us. Putting fear into your female daughters because of what society will say won't do any good. People have been using that method for centuries yet it didn't work. You know why because Amaka You, and I make the society. In a situation where our lives can not be imitated, our children will not care because we have logs in our own eyes.

Madam train your children right and wrong, good and right and consequences train them well to make right decisions because of the impact in them and not because of the fear of what people will say. The truth is, the fear of the society is a fallacy! A fiasco! A failure. It isn't real anymore.

.

Shocked me too! Would have been better to hear he is with the same person today.

Wishing that "ex" well wherever she is.
mehn!!

Acidosis:


Lol. The thing shock me my sister

armyofone:
Shocked me too! Would have been better to hear he is with the same person today.

Wishing that "ex" well wherever she is.
mehn!!

@bold:

Na beans?

Is this not the reason for the thread in the first place?

If God forbid, her womb is ruptured, is it the guy married with his own kids that bears the risk?

Hathor5:


It's still their baby.
He may run away. Some will even still sleep peacefully, many will not.
You impregnate a girl from the right family, your arms and legs will be broken.
No reason to tell anyone that it is the girl's job alone to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
It's simple dear.

And if the guy is nowhere to be found?
But reappears after 20 yrs when the child is longing for his dad even though he abandoned him.
Babe, let's be real here.
We are Nigerians .

Do you even know what the girls job is here?
Let me enumerate them.
I. If u want to have sex and there is no condom, guy want to go raw, it's your job to stop him and tell him no without condom and mean it.
2. It's your job to go for morning after pill if u made that mistake of going raw. Take care of yourself befor 24hrs.
3. If you know your mucus cycle, it's is your job to tell him no, we will continue a week after cos I'm on my fertile period. He insist, u walk away. Make up after your fertile window.

So it is your duty 100%
U can even buy condoms and keep in his house.
It's called emergency CD. Very important

bukatyne:


Whatever makes you sleep at night maami.

Anyone willing to take up the challenge:

Which moral code encourages sex before marriage?

I know Christianity, Islam and our local customs don't.

A fact is not a personal whim.

Moral codes are guiding principles of an individual or individuals that share upbringing, religion etc.

The moral code of a Muslim is different from that of a Christian and totally unrelated with an atheist.

It’s really not that hard of a concept to understand. You’re conflating morals with ethics which is a set of morals, codes on what is right or wrong for the society.

There is nothing like a universal code that encourages sex before or after marriage. Morals are principles created and adhered to by individuals.

Your religion made “no sex before marriage” a guiding principle for YOU (which you didn’t even adhere to) but it’s not the same for everybody not even for some that share same religion with you. Lol I’ve tried I don’t know how else to explain the subjectivity of morals and the pitfalls of imposing your personal morals on a stranger.

Hathor5:


Which is easier for you? Take responsibility for protection? Or get AIDS? And have your children all over the place?

You're smart. I have to include, and intelligent. The way you buttress your points

Personally my take is - in such situation, you stick with the person but maybe no be bean - oh well!

I think the lady bears the risks - so they should say no to unprotected sex.

bukatyne:


@bold:

Na beans?

Is this not the reason for the thread in the first place?

If God forbid, her womb is ruptured, is it the guy married with his own kids that bears the risk?

Every sensible woman either by age or counsel knows getting down raw puts her at a disadvantage. But making it all about women is totally wrong. It's the reason why we have so many she-males and dumb males around now. Women have been made to bear all the responsibility. Men no longer have responsibilities. It's really choking.

liberalchick:

A fact is not a personal whim.

Moral codes are guiding principles of an individual or individuals that share upbringing, religion etc.

The moral code of a Muslim is different from that of a Christian and totally unrelated with an atheist.

It’s really not that hard of a concept to understand. You’re conflating morals with ethics which is a set of morals, codes on what is right or wrong for the society.

There is nothing like a universal code that encourages sex before or after marriage. Morals are principles created and adhered to by individuals.

Your religion made “no sex before marriage” a guiding principle for YOU (which you didn’t even adhere to) but it’s not the same for everybody not even for some that share same religion with you. Lol I’ve tried I don’t know how else to explain the subjectivity of morals and the pitfalls of imposing your personal morals on a stranger.

You are just twisting like earthworm without answering my question:

Moral codes are guiding principles which would be birthed by the ethics of a religion, culture or personal.

Which guiding principles or ethics encourage sex before marriage since the word 'moral code' is the issue?

To the best of my knowledge, I have not founded a religion or culture so I don't know how it is personal.

The moral code on fornication for a Muslim, Christian and Traditional Worshiper (Did not say atheist) is the same. I have asked you to bring examples of an organized religion, culture etc that encourages sex before marriage.

Whether I adhered to the moral code/ethics of my religion before marriage is outside the scope of this discussion. And I have said it here plenty times that while I was not patient enough to wait before marriage, I have ONLY being with my husband sexually and I am proud of it anywhere

bukatyne:


I am going to address specifics in this post.

1. The married woman MOST likely has the number of kids she & hubby wants and she is aborting for her husband except the case of adultery. I am not condoning abortions here; I am stating the difference between a married abortionist and a single one.

2. Why are men not taught to keep their bodies: Because women do not value it. I said on a thread months back that any vice so visible in a society is tolerated by that society. The average Nigerian woman is NOT interested in/ does not value the sexual purity of a man (even one who is a virgin). This is NL with a wide range of audience. Open a thread on how many women want to marry virgins or sexually naive men. Let's do the count. Open a thread on women who would ensure they marry a man with few body count and let's talk. I 100% agree that boys and girls should be taught sexual responsibility and abstinence. That means there can be NO sexual liberation in such a society.

3. Men were once held for pregnancy everywhere in the world hence shotgun marriage. I believe you are Yoruba and the phrase 'O ti fun yon loyun' or 'talo fun e loyun' is very common. I gave a robust response to someone here (I will link it up). Forty years ago, a man knows getting a woman pregnant is automatic marriage. The question is 'what changed?'
https://www.nairaland.com/5934250/nigerian-women-abortion/4#90809842

Hmmmmm I see.
1) Selective Morality again? Buka I know you are a Christian and I am too you like Bible references a lot. So Lemme ask was it stated in the Bible that "married women " can abort ? Was there anywhere in the Bible where practices are partly condemned or partially praised? Abortion is either wrong or right with no considerations. If a man and woman have enough children they wish for, let them use contraceptives not engage in abortion. That's what is preached in churches. Then. These married women are their bodies different from the single women's bodies? Are they immune to implications from abortion because they are married? Aren't they endangering their lives as well? Or are the foetus they abort any different? Perhaps they are made of irons and sticks so their lives don't matter. Please Abortion is Abortion, it is either good or bad choose a side.

2)You are mixing the modern world and the olden world in the same sentence. Men were never taught right from time, most women don't even get to choose who they want to be with or how sexually experienced they want their husbands to be back in those days, So how come women liberation these days is the cause of men's sexual irresponsibility that started centuries even milleniums ago? I don't get it.

3) Okay we wait till "to ba ti fomoloyun" (after he gets a lady pregnant) before we show them the result of diicking around and not guide them against it. Interesting.
But yes I agree, Yorubas try to hold men responsible .

But point is everyone should close leg, because if you tell only female to close leg. Men will force the legs open (Rape, manipulations etc) . It takes both genders to eradicate sexual recklessness amongst youths and old.

armyofone:
Personally my take is - in such situation, you stick with the person but maybe no be bean - oh well!

I think the lady bears the risks - so they should say no to unprotected sex.

We cannot force the man to stay with her.

What if he cooks up 'she has some characters that are deal breakers for him?' or something else? What if he frustrates her till she leaves? You have not seen the 'I will frustrate her to leave crew'?

Ladies should say no to unprotected sex.

cococandy:


Feminism/equality reasoning is the only way sane folks reason

Ariza:
Hmmmmm I see.
1) Selective Morality again? Buka I know you are a Christian and I am too you like Bible references a lot. So Lemme ask was it stated in the Bible that "married women " can abort ? Was there anywhere in the Bible where practices are partly condemned or partially praised? Abortion is either wrong or right with no considerations. If a man and woman have enough children they wish for, let them use contraceptives not engage in abortion. That's what is preached in churches. Then. These married women are their bodies different from the single women's bodies? Are they immune to implications from abortion because they are married? Aren't they endangering their lives as well? Or are the foetus they abort any different? Perhaps they are made of irons and sticks so their lives don't matter. Please Abortion is Abortion, it is either good or bad choose a side.

2)You are mixing the modern world and the olden world in the same sentence. Men were never taught right from time, most women don't even get to choose who they want to be with or how sexually experienced they want their husbands to be back in those days, So how come women liberation these days is the cause of men's sexual irresponsibility that started centuries even milleniums ago? I don't get it.

3) Okay we wait till "to ba ti fomoloyun" (after he gets a lady pregnant) before we show them the result of diicking around and not guide them against it. Interesting.

Ariza, you are too logical for this emotional driven post.
1. Where did I state abortions are good? You asked for the difference and I stated it. Every Christian knows that abortion is a sin. No questions asked.

2. Men's sexual irresponsibility has increased with women's sexual liberation. Women's sexual liberation increased when the fear of pregnancy was addressed by contraceptives. Afterall, pregnancy and attendant risks is majorly the increased risk. If all women were supposed to be chaste, which women would the men sleep with? Very few societies were/are so hedonistic to have their men import prostitutes like Saudi Arabia or going to meet them at Dubai. So the men stayed put. I remember the pastor that counselled us said men in his time were given crash courses on sex and KJ jelly a day to the wedding because both partners were novices. Besides, if a man knew sex = pregnancy = shotgun marriage, he would control himself.

3. You got that from my post? Interesting.

bukatyne:

To the best of my knowledge, I have not founded a religion or culture so I don't know how it is personal.

The moral code on fornication for a Muslim, Christian and Traditional Worshiper (Did not say atheist) is the same. I have asked you to bring examples of an organized religion, culture etc that encourages sex before marriage.

The fact that you have to exclude atheists already nullifies your argument. It means your moral code of “no sex before marriage” isn’t universal and adhered by all so it shouldn’t be imposed on all. How can you tell someone is an atheist or not?

Really? You know the customs and ethics of all the HUNDREDS of culture and local religions in Nigeria?? Customs of a family/sect?? And you know for a fact that they ALL preach abstinence before marriage??

On the top of my head I know two Yoruba families their custom is for the fiancee to become pregnant to prove fertility.

Stop being smug and imposing of your ‘morals‘ that you don’t even follow on other people, they should stay where they belong for you and your family.

Please desist.

sassysure:

And if the guy is nowhere to be found?
But reappears after 20 yrs when the child is longing for his dad even though he abandoned him.
Babe, let's be real here.
We are Nigerians .

Do you even know what the girls job is here?
Let me enumerate them.
I. If u want to have sex and there is no condom, guy want to go raw, it's your job to stop him and tell him no without condom and mean it.
2. It's your job to go for morning after pill if u made that mistake of going raw. Take care of yourself befor 24hrs.
3. If you know your mucus cycle, it's is your job to tell him no, we will continue a week after cos I'm on my fertile period. He insist, u walk away. Make up after your fertile window.

So it is your duty 100%
U can even buy condoms and keep in his house.
It's called emergency CD. Very important

no.1
I would not date such men. I like responsible guys.

You should read up on the morning after pill. For a lady who makes it a woman's responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnancies you should know that it only works before ovulation.

This thread showed me once more why oyinbo think that black men have babies all over the place.
I was screaming racism back in the day. It's not.