dayokanu:

Look at the list of officers in the NCNC that Katsumoto posted

Herbert Macaulay - President, Azikiwe - General Secretary, Oyeshile Omage - Financial Secretary, Dr Olorun-Nimbe - Treasurer, Onojobi and Ogedengbe - Auditors, Akerele and Odunsi - Legal advicers

Only Zik was the non Yoruba in it. Would you say that was a non Yoruba party? I believe the ACN and APGA tagged as ethnic parties of today are not even dominated at the top in that manner by any group

Wrong logic with all due respect. Please read Katsumoto's post after yours. The executive does not define a party but the ideology.

^^^

So why do keep saying that the AG was a Yoruba party?

Katsumoto:

Who started the NCNC and where was it started? You have to understand the origins of the NCNC to be able to address this appropriately. NCNC was a union amongst remnants of the Nigerian Youth Movement (NYM), Nigerian Youth Circle (NYC), and the Nigerian Reconstruction Group (NRG), Nigerian Union of Students and other small trade unions. All were formed in the Lagos with NUS being the exception as it was formed in Abeokuta,and all predominantly had Yoruba leaders with the inclusion of Zik.

At its third meeting, officers of NCNC were elected. Herbert Macaulay - President, Azikiwe - General Secretary, Oyeshile Omage - Financial Secretary, Dr Olorun-Nimbe - Treasurer, Onojobi and Ogedengbe - Auditors, Akerele and Odunsi - Legal advicers. Clearly, NCNC was a Yoruba party which later transformed into an Eastern party. In the spirit of democracy, Egbe Omo Yoruba was formed on the basis that the Yoruba did not have a political party. Before the Egbe Omo Yoruba, there were the Igbo Union, Ibibio State Union, Youth Social Circle in Sokoto. Egbe omo Yoruba later became the AG, Youth Social Circle became the NPC. The Igbo union and Ibibio State Union would later join with NCNC after the death of Herbert Macauley.

In effect, in the North, there was one heavyweight party, the NPC, in the East, NCNC but in the West, there were two big parties (AG and NCNC; both having well educated and erudite Yoruba sons. This was good for democracy in the West because it meant that there was no dominant party. It would have continued in this way if Zik did not seek to become the leader of the Western House. With the NCNC forming in the West and having many Yoruba sons as members, Zik was always going to have a following among some Yoruba. The AG did not form in the East so it would have been a tall order for the AG to win seats in the East; whereas the NCNC was a party even before Egbo Omo Yoruba was formed.

If one argues that the NCNC was successful in the West (we know why), why wasn't it successful in the North? Why did Zik not have a following in the North? I accept that Zik was an intelligent and charismatic leader and he probably had inter-tribal affluence more than the other politicians of his era but why wasn't he able to make inroads into the North? The fact is that Zik had a following in the West because the Yoruba are an open-minded bunch. This can also be seen in the manner the Oyo politicians and stalwarts of the Ibadan People Party such as Kola Balogun, Akintola, Akinloye, Adelabu, Olunloyo, etc aligned with the North.

I hope this answers the last question posed in your post.

Dr. Azikiwe was the unanimous leader of the NCNC going into the 1951 regional election. Even the Yoruba sons such as Dr Olorun-Nimbe, Aderini Ogunsanya, Prince Samuel Akinsaya, Olu Akinfosele and TOS Benson would not accept the idea of Zik stepping aside so that they could assume the premiership of western region because these folks were not tribal irredentists. Zik never sought to become the premier of western region.

However since he was the leader of NCNC, the party which clearly won the majority of the seats in western house of assembly and a coalition with IPP would have extended the insurmountable lead, Zik should be the premier by the rules of the game. 

In fact, it was Nigerian Youth Movement (NYM) under the leadership of Ernest Okoli, H.O Davis, Prince Samuel Akinsaya, JC Voughn and Azikwe that defeated the NNDP under the leadership of Herbet Macauley in 1938 for Lagos town council election that saw Ernest Okoli as mayor of Lagos.

It is not true that NCNC and Zik did not make in road to northern region. Before the formation of NPC, the political personality such as your man, Zana Dipcharima and many northerners were members of NCNC. Again, tribalism was/is the most important variable factor in Nigerian politics and it stood against Zik’s chances of becoming the first premier of western region and the caused declining support in northern region too.

houvest:


Quick question. What was the need for a Yoruba party since as you said NCNC was a party joining East and West? It was first led by, Macaulay, a Yoruba? and later Zik, an Igbo. What was the need for a Yoruba party sionce Igbos, Ijaws, Efiks, Edos had none. They had sociocultural organizations and all operated under one political umbrela, NCNC. It was only the North that had her own party.while NCNC tried to be Nigerian. I am not asking this question to denigrate anybody but really trying to know why egbe omo oduduwa decided to transform into a political party. Dont you think if NCNC had remained as the paramount southern party, it not only would have won the power at the centre and even more than that would have ensured southern, if not national unity?

Good question.

houvest:


Quick question. What was the need for a Yoruba party since as you said NCNC was a party joining East and West? It was first led by, Macaulay, a Yoruba? and later Zik, an Igbo. What was the need for a Yoruba party sionce Igbos, Ijaws, Efiks, Edos had none. They had sociocultural organizations and all operated under one political umbrela, NCNC.  It was only the North that had her own party.while NCNC tried to be Nigerian. I am not asking this question to denigrate anybody but really trying to know why egbe omo oduduwa decided to transform into a political party. Dont you think if NCNC had remained as the paramount southern party, it not only would have won the power at the centre and even more than that would have ensured southern, if not national unity?

I suspect it had little to do with a Yoruba agenda. You have to remember that Zik and Awo had fallen out in the Nigerian Youth Movement when Awo backed Ikoli and Zik backed Samuel Akinsanya in an election. Ikoli won the election and Zik alleged that it was an Eko conspiracy against Ijebus, never mind that Awo was Ijebu. After that episode, the NYM was scrapped and Zik joined NCNC. I think that set the stage for their famous rivalry.

Secondly, at that time, it was a safe gamble that Nigeria was going to be split into three. Awo, who believed at that time, that the British would grant autonomy and independence to each region, prepared for it. Zik, on the other hand was pro-Nigerian. The NCNC was pro-Nigeria and it had many pro-Nigeria Yoruba sons such as Benson, Adeniran Ogunsanya, Akinloye, etc. The North also did not believe in Nigeria and set about developing its political machinery to frustrate that purpose. Bello, realising that the North could not compete with the South, only agreed to independence for Nigeria, if he would have political power. Awo objected to this but the pro-Nigeria party, NCNC, agreed to this; probably thinking that it would wrestle power from the North later on.

Unfortunately, for Awo and AG, the West did not achieve the full autonomy it voted for in 1957 because NCNC (Zik) voted to wait for the North to be ready (according to Bello). So basically, Awo's move was basically to counter the Northern agenda and prepare for independence for Oduduwa Nation.

This is just my opinion; I can not speak for the founding fathers.

Dede1:

Dr. Azikiwe was the unanimous leader of the NCNC going into the 1951 regional election. Even the Yoruba sons such as Dr Olorun-Nimbe, Aderini Ogunsanya, Prince Samuel Akinsaya, Olu Akinfosele and TOS Benson would not accept the idea of Zik stepping aside so that they could assume the premiership of western region because these folks were not tribal irredentists. Zik never sought to become the premier of western region.

However since he was the leader of NCNC, the party which clearly won the majority of the seats in western house of assembly and a coalition with IPP would have extended the insurmountable lead, Zik should be the premier by the rules of the game. 

In fact, it was Nigerian Youth Movement (NYM) under the leadership of Ernest Okoli, H.O Davis, Prince Samuel Akinsaya, JC Voughn and Azikwe that defeated the NNDP under the leadership of Herbet Macauley in 1938 for Lagos town council election that saw Ernest Okoli as mayor of Lagos.

It is not true that NCNC and Zik did not make in road to northern region. Before the formation of NPC, the political personality such as your man, Zana Dipcharima and many northerners were members of NCNC. Again, tribalism was/is the most important variable factor in Nigerian politics and it stood against Zik’s chances of becoming the first premier of western region and the caused declining support in northern region too. 

But the NCNC won in the East as well and Zik could have become Premier of the East instead of Eyo Ita or did leadership of the NCNC only mean that you can become leader of the Western region? Zik could have gone to the East and mandated one of the Yoruba sons to become premier of the West.

Funny comment about Dipcharima.

^^^
The western region consist of other non Yoruba ethnic groups such as The Itsekiris, Urhobos, Edos, Ndigbo, Ijaws etc. Yet Awo and co transformed a Yoruba cultural association as a political party for the West. Does it mean that Awo saw the Western region as entirely a Yoruba region?.

^^^

What is your point?

fstranger3:

^^^

What is your point?

Just to know why a Yoruba cultural association could be transformed to a political party that will represent all the groups that are not even Yorubas in the Western region.

Andre Uweh:

Just to know why a Yoruba cultural association could be transformed to a political party that will represent all the groups that are not even Yorubas in the Western region.

http://www.dawodu.com/awolowo10.htm

Let me know if that does not answer your question.

fstranger3:


http://www.dawodu.com/awolowo10.htm

Let me know if that does not answer your question.

That Rubbish is so long and boring to read and yet, hasn't answered any question. Don't waste your time posting such craps next time.

Andre Uweh:

^^^
The western region consist of other non Yoruba ethnic groups such as The Itsekiris, Urhobos, Edos, Ndigbo, Ijaws etc. Yet Awo and co transformed a Yoruba cultural association as a political party for the West. Does it mean that Awo saw the Western region as entirely a Yoruba region?.

Action Group was not a Yoruba party because it had members who were from the mid-west such as Alfred Rewane, Anthony Enahoro, Michael Okorodudu, Reece Edunkugho, Ogbemi Rewani, Gaius Obaseki, Ighodaro, Oronsaye, C. N. Ekwuyasi, etc. Granted the AG had more Yoruba members than the other groups but this was obviously because the Yoruba were a clear majority in the West. When the Western House of Assembly opened in 1952, 21 of the 24 delegates were NCNC candidates but over time, majority moved to the AG because of the pro-Igbo stance of the NCNC.

Also bear in mind that of the three regions, it was only the AG which allowed a state to be carved from with it. At the time there was agitation for mid-west state, there was also agitation for a COR state in the Eastern region and a middle-belt state in the Northern region. If AG wanted to dominate the minorities in its midst, it would have severely opposed the creation of the mid-west state just as the eastern and northern regions opposed the creation of COR and middle-belt states respectively.

Katsumoto:

Action Group was not a Yoruba party because it had members who were from the mid-west such as Alfred Rewane, Anthony Enahoro, Michael Okorodudu, Reece Edunkugho, Ogbemi Rewani, Gaius Obaseki, Ighodaro, Oronsaye, C. N. Ekwuyasi, etc. Granted the AG had more Yoruba members than the other groups but this was obviously because the Yoruba were a clear majority in the West. When the Western House of Assembly opened in 1952, 21 of the 24 delegates were NCNC candidates but over time, majority moved to the AG because of the pro-Igbo stance of the NCNC.

Also bear in mind that of the three regions, it was only the AG which allowed a state to be carved from with it. At the time there was agitation for mid-west state, there was also agitation for a COR state in the Eastern region and a middle-belt state in the Northern region. If AG wanted to dominate the minorities in its midst, it would have severely opposed the creation of the mid-west state just as the eastern and northern regions opposed the creation of COR and middle-belt states respectively.

They did oppose it.

But they didn't have a way of stopping it, certainly not in 1963, anyways.

Katsumoto:

Action Group was not a Yoruba party because it had members who were from the mid-west such as Alfred Rewane, Anthony Enahoro, Michael Okorodudu, Reece Edunkugho, Ogbemi Rewani, Gaius Obaseki, Ighodaro, Oronsaye, C. N. Ekwuyasi, etc. Granted the AG had more Yoruba members than the other groups but this was obviously because the Yoruba were a clear majority in the West. When the Western House of Assembly opened in 1952, 21 of the 24 delegates were NCNC candidates but over time, majority moved to the AG because of the pro-Igbo stance of the NCNC.

Also bear in mind that of the three regions, it was only the AG which allowed a state to be carved from with it. At the time there was agitation for mid-west state, there was also agitation for a COR state in the Eastern region and a middle-belt state in the Northern region. If AG wanted to dominate the minorities in its midst, it would have severely opposed the creation of the mid-west state just as the eastern and northern regions opposed the creation of COR and middle-belt states respectively.

The west had no choice but to allow them go. If they had their way, they could have obstructed it.
Agreed, A.G had non Yorubas, but the rationale behind transforming a Yoruba cultural association as a political party that will represent other non Yorubas is what I hereby question.

Andre Uweh:

The west had no choice but to allow them go. If they had their way, they could have obstructed it.
Agreed, A.G had non Yorubas, but the rationale behind transforming a Yoruba cultural association as a political party that will represent other non Yorubas is what I hereby question.

Can you provide a link that proves your assertion that what you posted above was Awolowo's plan?

Biafra most certainly did not have the resources to embark on incessant bombing raids but that is not to say that it did not bomb the West in the early stages of the war.

A poster on this thread has confirmed that in his area in Fadeyi, bombs were dropped.

Biafran defendants make bogus and outright inaccurate accounts of everything to shore up their credits and appear venerable. They did not drop bomb in Lagos. They made attempt to advance on Lagos but their under-estimation of and wrong assessment of Yoruba reserve resulted in an embarassing defeat at Ore and a retreat back to East.

Who do you think coined the term "Jews of Africa?" It was the Igbo themselves. For some odd reason, the Ndigbo have always been likened to the Jews.

Ndigbo is always searching to boost its population and right its majority.

Ndi ichie, counsel of elders. Umunna meetings governed by the oldest member of the family. The Igbo village/county structure is as follows: Nuclear family > Compound > Extended family > Village Quarters > Village > after that Ekpe, Okonko, Ibin Ukpabi courts and the rest come into cases depending on the community. In the case of Nri and its sphere of influence there were the Nze (people who go on peace missions) who were Ozo in training (priests who lead peace missions), after the Ozo is the Eze Nri (an elected Ozo)

Every community has this social structure you describe. . . this is not a sophisticated arrangement for checking and correcting the power of the monarch. This is just a bottom-up structure for familial or clan heirarchy.

Im looking for a sophisticated check and balance to forestall abuse.

Attah of Igala? You mean Idah child of Nri, a kingdom established by the Nri-Igbo, was oppressing Nri? When?

Let the Igalas speak to it.

Katsumoto:

[b]But the NCNC won in the East as well and Zik could have become Premier of the East instead of Eyo Ita or did leadership of the NCNC only mean that you can become leader of the Western region? Zik could have gone to the East and mandated one of the Yoruba sons to become premier of the West.

[/b]Funny comment about Dipcharima.

Zik, though the leader of NCNC, did not contest election either in northern region or eastern region. He contested election in one of the regional constituencies and won a seat in western region house of assembly. As a leader of his party in the house, he should be the regional premier designate unless he chooses to go to the federal level. The political settings of the era decreed that nobody could aspire for any position in regional house of assemblies without being a member. The only route to being a member of regional house of assembly was by winning electoral seat which did in Lagos.

Katsumoto:

Action Group was not a Yoruba party because it had members who were from the mid-west such as Alfred Rewane, Anthony Enahoro, Michael Okorodudu, Reece Edunkugho, Ogbemi Rewani, Gaius Obaseki, Ighodaro, Oronsaye, C. N. Ekwuyasi, etc. Granted the AG had more Yoruba members than the other groups but this was obviously because the Yoruba were a clear majority in the West. When the Western House of Assembly opened in 1952, 21 of the 24 delegates were NCNC candidates but over time, majority moved to the AG because of the pro-Igbo stance of the NCNC.

Also bear in mind that of the three regions, it was only the AG which allowed a state to be carved from with it. At the time there was agitation for mid-west state, there was also agitation for a COR state in the Eastern region and a middle-belt state in the Northern region. If AG wanted to dominate the minorities in its midst, it would have severely opposed the creation of the mid-west state just as the eastern and northern regions opposed the creation of COR and middle-belt states respectively.

Although Action Group could not be totally termed as Yoruba party but the formative nucleus of the party was Yoruba hence Egba Omo Oduduwa. I must say that Chike N Ekwuyasi was not a member of AG. However, S O Ighodaro was a turn coat who was elected to the regional house of assemebly under the platform of NCNC and switched to AG after been promised ministerial job at Ibadan. I know SG Ikoku was a member of Action Group.

fstranger3:

^^^

So why do keep saying that the AG was a Yoruba party?

Please read the bolded from Katsumoto's post I responded to: In the spirit of democracy, Egbe Omo Yoruba was formed on the basis that the Yoruba did not have a political party

Negro_Ntns:

Biafran defendants make bogus and outright inaccurate accounts of everything to shore up their credits and appear venerable. They did not drop bomb in Lagos. They made attempt to advance on Lagos but their under-estimation of and wrong assessment of Yoruba reserve resulted in an embarassing defeat at Ore and a retreat back to East.


Ndigbo is always searching to boost its population and right its majority.


Every community has this social structure you describe. . . this is not a sophisticated arrangement for checking and correcting the power of the monarch. This is just a bottom-up structure for familial or clan heirarchy.

Im looking for a sophisticated check and balance to forestall abuse.


Let the Igalas speak to it.

What do you mean at the bolded?.

Andre,

The political heirarchy and value of Ndigbo as a top dog in the Eastern region is a recent and artificial placement that emerged out of colonial intervention to subdue historically dominant powers.

There are various outcomes of that and I will mention three, one for each region.

1. North was and is the de facto ruler of Nigerian politics because their obvious indifference to literacy and simple outlook on life would inadvertently support, in statutory ways, the ambitions of Britain, even after the colony is granted independence, to continue to enjoy material control of the nation's wealth and resources without the northerner's giving it any serious thought as an inappropriate and act of sovereign abuse.

2. The continuous uproar and political confrontations in the West was historical. In fact, the British were able to seize Lagos as a protectorate primarily due to a falsified treaty signed with Akitoye in return for protection of his throne from his rival Kosoko. The British arrived on Yoruba soil in the middle of political turmoil. So they knew the Yorubas were politically savvy and had a hightened sense of democratic powers and its limits. But the entire West was a homogeneous people and so they were maneuvered out of Nigerian political power using a different means of divide and conquer. They imprisoned Awo on false charges of treason and rewarded the North and East with political legacy as well as military heirarchies.

3. East, already taked it.

Negro_Ntns:

Andre,

The political heirarchy and value of Ndigbo as a top dog in the Eastern region is a recent and artificial placement that emerged out of colonial intervention to subdue historically dominant powers.

There are various outcomes of that and I will mention three, one for each region.

1. North was and is the de facto ruler of Nigerian politics because their obvious indifference to literacy and simple outlook on life would inadvertently support, in statutory ways, the ambitions of Britain, even after the colony is granted independence, to continue to enjoy material control of the nation's wealth and resources without the northerner's giving it any serious thought as an inappropriate and act of sovereign abuse.

2. The continuous uproar and political confrontations in the West was historical. In fact, the British were able to seize Lagos as a protectorate primarily due to a falsified treaty signed with Akitoye in return for protection of his throne from his rival Kosoko. The British arrived on Yoruba soil in the middle of political turmoil. So they knew the Yorubas were politically savvy and had a hightened sense of democratic powers and its limits. But the entire West was a homogeneous people and so they were maneuvered out of Nigerian political power using a different means of divide and conquer. They imprisoned Awo on false charges of treason and rewarded the North and East with political legacy as well as military heirarchies.

3. East, already taked it.

who teach u history? Akara school na very bad thing

Are we now comparing akara school with apku school? Clearly, from all the posts on this thread, akara school gets better substance.

Ileke-IdI:

Are we now comparing akara school with apku school? Clearly, from all the post on this thread, akara school gets better substance.

ewooo e di kwa funny, you obviously like my igbo swag, following me from one forum to another

I already have a yoruba girl I am seeing in Portland o, i don;t know if i can handle two o, ekiti baby enh igbo boy cannot division himself into twice o,

igbo boy:

ewooo e di kwa funny, you obviously like my igbo swag, following me from one forum to another

I already have a yoruba girl I am seeing in Portland o, i don;t know if i can handle two o, ekiti baby enh igbo boy cannot division himself into twice o,

This same re-tard that was just talking about ignoring a "fool" on another thread a minute ago is still quoting a "fool". Well, now that makes two fools on this thread, but am sure your degree is worst than mines.

igbo boy:

ewooo e di kwa funny, you obviously like my igbo swag, following me from one forum to another

I already have a yoruba girl I am seeing in Portland o, i don;t know if i can handle two o, ekiti baby enh igbo boy cannot division himself into twice o,

^^^^

I love Portland, very nice city

The people are nice too

fstranger3:

^^^^

I love Portland, very nice city

The people are nice too

Seattle way better, bigger, richer and nicer,

Negro_Ntns:

Every community has this social structure you describe. . . this is not a sophisticated arrangement for checking and correcting the power of the monarch.  This is just a bottom-up structure for familial or clan heirarchy.

What is the Umunna hierarchy called in Yoruba?

Negro_Ntns:

Im looking for a sophisticated check and balance to forestall abuse.

You don't think a council of Ozo men who govern the matter of the Eze Nri and who themselves become Eze Nri is enough to forestall abuse?

To take Nri as an example again, the Nri Kingdom is an elective monarchy and it did not have a military. Any outcasts or slave were immediately freed in Nri.

Checks and Balances: Nri democracy had built in checks and balances to protect abuse of power. The highest leadership position at Nri was the Eze Nri (Nri King).  Eze Nri was not a ruler but rather a ceremonial head and a moral guardian. He did not make laws or enforce them; the Ozo and Nze council (and to some degree the Iyom council) did.  Although the Ozo and Nze council made laws through voting, the Eze Nri had powerful sway because of his moral authority. He not only acted for the greatest good, but was perceived as doing so.   Because first born sons naturally inherited family leadership and are potential lineage head, they could not be king. Another major safeguard in Nri leadership was the Adama council. This is probably the best check and balance in Nri leadership. The Adama lineage lived at the heartland of Nri, but was not considered Nri. They were a neutral entity, acting as moral counselors of Nri people. Though they did not participate directly in Nri politics, they did crown all Eze Nri and automatically inherit leadership at the ‘ascension’ (death) of an Eze Nri for Seven years, (during the interregnum period) or until another king was crowned.  They brokered peace at Nri in case of a quarrel or if there was a confusion during the selection of an Eze Nri. They were the last moral authority and peacemakers at Nri.

Another big check and balance at Nri was the Umu-Okpu (or Umu-Ada) council. Although they operated mostly at the village level, they were very effective. The Umu-Okpu (or Umu-Ada) council were a community of women born at a specific village and married outside their villages. Because they did not participate in their birth village’s day to day politics, these communities of women were considered neutral entities. Their birth village members called upon them in extreme cases to deliberate, and give their opinion. Their decisions were highly respected and usually considered final. They operated as ad-hoc panels on a per need basis.

Another powerful group was the Iyom council. This was a league of highly spiritual women who lived by a very high moral code (although just like Ozo and Nze priests, in recent times, they are more regarded as affluent women than highly spiritual). They prescribed laws that guided women’s behaviors and advocated for women’s issues.   Also there was the Inyom Counci. Every married woman at Nri was automatically a member. They made laws for married women, settled disputes between their members and also advocated for women’s issues.

At Nri, every generation (Ndi Ogbo) had its own advocacy group. Ndi Ogbo (age grade groups) were groups of individuals born within a five years period. Although their main purpose was to volunteer for particular tasks like construction of a particular bridge or road, they also acted as advocacy groups for issues affecting their generation.  By playing their various parts, all these groups helped to strengthen Nri Freedom and Democracy.

http://www.kwenu.com/publications/anunobi/leadership_crises2.htm

Eze,

To take Nri as an example again, the Nri Kingdom is an elective monarchy and it did not have a military. Any outcasts or slave were immediately freed in Nri.

You continue to supply me with feeders to further solidify my claim of Nri's secondary status in the East. I am beginning to wonder if I ought not to discuss this important topic with someone more knowledgable of the history. You are doing damage to your cause with your statements. Let me give you example.

". . .Nri kingdom is an elective monarchy and did not have a military"

All ancient African Kingdoms that predated the white man's "new society" were ruled by bloodline, not election. There is no exception to an African Empire or Kingdom that did not keep an army. I wonder why Igbo is an exception to both rules above.

. . . . you mentioned slaves again.

Who enslaved Igbos? How did millions of you end across the Ocean?

You ever wondered why British kept Yoruba numbers low in strategic military ranks and positions (officers) and gave guns and ammos to Hausas and Igbos to guard the periphery of Ikoyi and VI?

. . . . Because they knew you could not turn on them with it. They could not trust Yoruba to keep his finger off the trigger.

Ileke-IdI:

This same re-tard that was just talking about ignoring a "fool" on another thread a minute ago is still quoting a "fool". Well, now that makes two fools on this thread, but am sure your degree is worst than mines.

Ogbanje ekiti your rants are senseless, well keep showing me your daftness and i'll play along okay?

Negro_Ntns:

Eze,

You continue to supply me with feeders to further solidify my claim of Nri's secondary status in the East. I am beginning to wonder if I ought not to discuss this important topic with someone more knowledgable of the history. You are doing damage to your cause with your statements. Let me give you example.

Could you please tell me who were the primary states of the east? And could you also provide a source and the dates for when they were the primary people?

Negro_Ntns:

". . .Nri kingdom is an elective monarchy and did not have a military"

All ancient African Kingdoms that predated the white man's "new society" were ruled by bloodline, not election. There is no exception to an African Empire or Kingdom that did not keep an army. I wonder why Igbo is an exception to both rules above.

I'm sorry if Nri's advancement and foresight hurts you, but:

Nri was not hereditary and they did not keep an army.

Negro_Ntns:

. . . . you mentioned slaves again.

Who enslaved Igbos? How did millions of you end across the Ocean?

The smaller states and especially the Aro were who enslaved the Igbo, the slave trade was what actually led to the decline of states like Nri because of conflict.

Negro_Ntns:

You ever wondered why British kept Yoruba numbers low in strategic military ranks and positions (officers) and gave guns and ammos to Hausas and Igbos to guard the periphery of Ikoyi and VI?

. . . . Because they knew you could not turn on them with it. They could not trust Yoruba to keep his finger off the trigger.

This has nothing to do with the discussion on Igbo democracy.

Chinua Achebe was the first person in history to ever refer to the many separate but independent Igbo clans as a "nation". He did that out of realization of the points I am making . . . to the effect that, Igbo was not a nation, kingdom or empire in the traditional and historical sense of African rulership and tribal dominions. Yoruba was and is still a nation. Hausa was not until Fulani - Dan Fodio - established them as a nation.

So when you talk of "states" in the sense you are deriving it, then there had to have been a nation ruled by a paramount and to whom all the head rulers of the tributary territories pay homage and loyalty. Such a arrangement was never and is not in the Igbo history.

In Nigeria, Yoruba is the only original and indigenous nation. We established our own states and managed our territoriaL expansions and consolidations through warfare and treaties. This is why the British were incapable of setting up a new democracy for us and resolved to using other manuevers to strip us of power in a "new society" called Nigeria. They left qualified Yorubas out of military posts and authority. Anywhere a Yoruba officer is in charge he was deputized and enveloped with plenty other tribes to insulate him from fellow Yoruba officers and prevent against a face-off with the British. The case was not the same when the officer was Igbo or Hausa.

So it is wrong to assume that military and political legacy left to reward you thus equate to historical greatness. You need to change your mindset about warring in Nigeria. You have never fought a war of tribal control outside of the false sense of security made favorable to you by the British legacy.

Your talk about Aro and Nri setup and relationship and all the other references to nation, states, democracy are nothing but an attempt to re-define who you are as a people by mimicking greatness of others who have proven through history and traditions, customs and rituals how to be Great!

So all you Igbos need to shut up and stop boasting and beating your chests about greatness and power and strength and war. You are rip-off majority. . . . the Ijaws or Kalabaris would have been an appropriate majority in the share of federal power in this country.

The advantage you enjoy is that many of Yorubas and Hausas and other small tribs are not intimate with tis history and so whatever you say they just absorb it without a challenge. You continue to repeat the nonsense and with time it starts to gather strength and root itself as fact. . . but in actuality its BS.

Stop your nonsense or I will continue to reveal your secondary status in the dimensions of African Great kingdoms. Ok?