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Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 12:56am On Apr 23, 2011
Matthew 20:28
“For even the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many”

Jesus gave us his life voluntarily to pay off the debt of sin we all owe, thereby buying us out of spiritual slavery. He gave his life to purchase our freedom.  From the cross Jesus proclaimed “It is finished” hence meaning he had triumphed on our behalf that he has finished the work he set out to do. On the cross, Jesus was not a victim, but a servant doing God’s bidding.

Christ death on the cross marks the central event of the Passover season for all mankind. When the Israelites were being rescued from Egypt, the blood of the lamb was sprinkled on the doorposts of each Jewish home in Egypt and saved those inside from death. Jews who came to Jerusalem to celebrate needed to supply a perfect young lamb for sacrifice. The animal could not be diseased or have broken bones. Jesus used his final Passover meal to show that his sacrificial death would give new meaning to the festival (Mark 14:17-31). Therefore, the cross became an altar where Christ, the Passover lamb was slain. Jesus legs were not broken (John 19:33), hence fulfilling the Passover rule (Exodus 12:46)

Blood ran freely from Jesus wound (John 19:34), showing that his life was being exchanged for us. Just as a lamb died to save the lives of Jewish families at the Passover in Egypt, so too this one death of the Son of God on the cross serves to bring salvation to the world.

CONCLUSION

The blood of a lamb can only do a temporal job (Muslims take note), However the Blood of the Lamb of God does a permanent and eternal Job. It is wrong to be a critic and enemy of the cross. I implore that you let the blood  of Jesus shed on the cross become operative in your life.

It is the blood of Jesus that can make us white as snow, making us have peace with God.

God bless wink
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by Sweetnecta: 4:53am On Apr 23, 2011
« on: Today at 12:56:32 AM »

Matthew 20:28
“For even the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many”

Alhamdulillah. you didn't for all. Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, etc an Muhammad [as] and me don't need anyone dying for us, because we will approach our merciful God Who needs no life lost directly, seeking the needed Forgiveness. We shall be given, InshaAllah. so if there was a life given as a ransom, it was in vain and worthless to us.



Jesus gave us his life voluntarily to pay off the debt of sin we all owe, thereby buying us out of spiritual slavery. He gave his life to purchase our freedom. From the cross Jesus proclaimed “It is finished” hence meaning he had triumphed on our behalf that he has finished the work he set out to do. On the cross, Jesus was not a victim, but a servant doing God’s bidding.

when something is dragged by force, it is not voluntary as you said. either you do not know what constitute voluntary action or you are just being hypocritical. if debt was paid, do you owe anymore especially when the JC gold card is for ever? then why is the concept of individual sin not covered by the JC gold card, the reason he said he will tell those who approach him on that day telling him that they used to cast out evil spirit in his name; depart from me, for i never knew ye. i wonder if it was finished at the supper or is it on the cross, where he said 'i commit my spirit to Your Hands' and gave up the ghost? which one is his very last statement, yommyuk?

he didn't say he triumphed over anything by his it is finished statement. how did you read that into it? the work given to he completed by his it is finished remark at the dinner table, long before the crucifixion. check your bible and see that the it is finished on the cross relates not to what he was sent to do. it is ironic you called him a servant of God, doing what he was sent to do. if he said he completed his work already at the time of the last supper, adding the crucifixion to it, is now a problem that you have to deal with. a lie that someone is trying to make into the truth. and crying my God my God why do you let this happen to me is nothing short of blame worthy, definitely not a quality of a hero




Christ death on the cross marks the central event of the Passover season for all mankind. When the Israelites were being rescued from Egypt, the blood of the lamb was sprinkled on the doorposts of each Jewish home in Egypt and saved those inside from death. Jews who came to Jerusalem to celebrate needed to supply a perfect young lamb for sacrifice. The animal could not be diseased or have broken bones. Jesus used his final Passover meal to show that his sacrificial death would give new meaning to the festival (Mark 14:17-31). Therefore, the cross became an altar where Christ, the Passover lamb was slain. Jesus legs were not broken (John 19:33), hence fulfilling the Passover rule (Exodus 12:46)

the jews will disagree with you about what is the central event of their so called passover. it is brain dead that people will believe that Angel of God will only the home children of israel and skip it by blood wipe all over the door, thinking that the egyptians who were looking at them doing this will not eve copy them. dumb angels you guys think were sent.

equally dumb egyptian who failed to copy the slaves who didn't have any animal, but managed to kill an animal for every house to protect themselves when the more wealthy egyptians get the big 'passover' punishment. this is a faulthy story of how the beginning of the end came to pharaoh. islam has the accurate account and there is no dumb angel sent who only know which house to kill their children by lack os smelly blood. i wonder what is the difference between one alter and the other types of alter? yommyuk is in a quick sand.




Blood ran freely from Jesus wound (John 19:34), showing that his life was being exchanged for us. Just as a lamb died to save the lives of Jewish families at the Passover in Egypt, so too this one death of the Son of God on the cross serves to bring salvation to the world.

just for assumption sake,if a child of israel commits a sin in egypt today that deserve death or enslavement in jail, will the passover ritual prevents his punishment? if you are guilty of sin in the Sight of God, will the crucifixion prevent your being punished in lake of fire? your answer should tell you the truth of Who is in the Control; God Almighty, or jesus you are trying to put in a place he does not belong, using all kind of faulty schemes to satisfy your temporary satisfaction.



CONCLUSION

The blood of a lamb can only do a temporal job (Muslims take note), However the Blood of the Lamb of God does a permanent and eternal Job. It is wrong to be a critic and enemy of the cross. I implore that you let the blood of Jesus shed on the cross become operative in your life.

It is the blood of Jesus that can make us white as snow, making us have peace with God.

God bless Wink

Abraham was tested, and his attempt to slaughter his son who submitted to the slaughter is regarded as obedience to God. it was concluded in happiness by ransom of ram of God, brought from heaven by Angel Gabriel. we must realize that by obedience in that moment in time, abraham's sins of the past, if there was any was forgiven, wiped out since there is now at the slaughter a 'new beginning' and a new life for father and son. while you will agree that jesus hid himself throughout from the jews, unless you and he believe people can die many times, we have to ask why he was walking in the shadows, never in the open, or he was not killed in the first place knowing that if they see his face in the open, they will kill him this time and make sure he stayed dead?

it is the muslim who honors Jesus son of Mary [as], speaking about him in the right and correct manners. when we slaughter any animal, we do it for food, thanking God and most importantly in obedience to Him as He instructed. God does not need blood, flesh, but He looks at your piety in God consciousness and obedience.
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by olawalebabs(m): 10:38am On Apr 23, 2011
@sweetnecta you just said it all. Thanks for that beautifull analysis.
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 7:51pm On Apr 23, 2011
@Sweetnecta

What you lack is what I have, "The Holy Spirit". Without it you are nothing. Actions speak louder than words. What do you think Jesus meant when he said the following:

John 18:36
"My Kingdom is not an earthly Kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world."

Where was this Kingdom situated that Jesus was talking about?

and me don't need anyone dying for us, because we will approach our merciful God Who needs no life lost directly, seeking the needed Forgiveness. We shall be given, InshaAllah. so if there was a life given as a ransom, it was in vain and worthless to us

Luke 5:31 recognises your kind.

Jesus answered them, " Healthy people don't need a doctor- sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.

You wont be the first and surely not the last. unto your kind Jesus Christ has decreed:

Luke 10:36
"Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God, who sent me".

What will you do when you face the throne of Judgement(inc Muhammed) and find the Lamb of God on the throne? You guess is best as mine.

Unto your kind these things have been hidden from.

Luke 10:21
At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hidding these things from those who think themselves WISE AND CLEVER, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it please you to do it this way.

Are you feeling cool right now with your sole purpose in life which is to discredit the word of God with satanic wisdom invested in you by the Koran. Keep it up. That is were we differ. I approach the word of God with faith like a child accepting and trusting that whatever it says is the absolute truth and nothing but the truth.

wink
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by Sweetnecta: 9:51pm On Apr 23, 2011
@Yommyuk; « #3 on: Today at 07:51:54 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta

What you lack is what I have, "The Holy Spirit". Without it you are nothing.[/Quote]i don't need the holy spirit that can't point to a single thing he has corrected you on, taught you, led you to that is the truth unknown before or lost after Jesus. I do not need the holy spirit which you said is 'God', but had to wait to hear God before he speaks what God commanded him, with no one hearing what he said. You forgot that God cant command God as the Superior commands subordinate. if this type of command happens the one commanded to obedience is no God at all. and before you claim that Spirit can't talk, you need to realize that God spoke to Moses many times without seeing God, but hearing His Words in clear Voice throughout. God even told Moses when he asked who was speaking that He is God the Almighty commanding him at the burning bush to remove his shoes because he is in a holy ground. Your excused holy spirit is not what i need. I am in good company in obedience by following the unlettered prophet by the scripture given to him, the Quran.




[Quote]Actions speak louder than words.[/Quote]what word did the hoy spirit taught the whole of the christian anew, in correction, guidance, glorifying Jesus son of Mary in the correct manner without exaggeration or diminishing him in purpose, and how have you actioned it in the past 2000 years? think before you respond; new thing that was taught after Jesus is what i need. show me the book i can learn it or read it from.




[Quote]What do you think Jesus meant when he said the following:

John 18:36
"My Kingdom is not an earthly Kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world."[/Quote]while what i think does not matter, the absolute truth alone matters. if the above is not a cop out i dont what is because you christians in your bible drum it ever so loudly that he is the king of the jews! are the jews dwellers of any other place than palestine/israel where they have had kings in their homeland starting from Saul to the son of Solomon? it is the belief of the christian that he is the king of the jews and the jews mock him as such. when the jews were mocking him, was it in heaven or on planet earth? i am not going to go into the fact that a real king always have a throne, just like a real God does not have another God over him. either you have been suckered to accepting falsehood, or you intentionally dont wanna know the truth. the choice will lead to peril except that you change your belief to the truth while you are on earth. please do not forget that the bible recorded that no followers of jesus hung around to see his end, how could they have fought to keep him? cowards ran away. cowards do not hang around to defend their positions. you expose the truth of the bible for people like me to point to you; we see that if it is true that jesus preached non violence, he would not have asked his followers to buy swords and would never have said the above fighting verse, except that cool head prevail knowing that any order to fight will end in bloodbath. when there was not a single disciple to stick around, how can we trust what they said happened when they were not eye witnesses? the above and many that i will not bother to tell you know are indication that the writers embellished to serve their purpose, not what Jesus came with.




[Quote]Where was this Kingdom situated that Jesus was talking about?[/Quote]should you not be asking yourself why you call him the king of the jews if he is not supposed to be a king in land fall palestine?




[Quote]Quote
and as for me, we don't need anyone dying for us, because we will approach our merciful God Who needs no life lost directly, seeking the needed Forgiveness. We shall be given, InshaAllah. so if there was a life given as a ransom, it was in vain and worthless to us

Luke 5:31 recognises your kind.

Jesus answered them, " Healthy people don't need a doctor- sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.
[/Quote]While you condemn the whole mankind with original sin, your words to instill guilt in my clear conscience will nor work. the writers of the bible after saying that everyone is a sinner by original sin, except jesus, they forget that they said job was sinless. so were many others who were sinless and even have holy spirit dwelling in them; zacharias and his son and Mary the mother of Jesus, all his contemporary, tell me the sin any of them that it is the death of jesus that will clear it, since i have used job to tell you that original sin is a fluke? just ike i do not need some animal to be killed for me, it is the same way i dont need a man being hung and cursed for me because my God has said He is the Most Merciful and has taught me in the Quran how to seek forgiveness with my heart and tongue. how do i know i am forgiven? i became a person who hates to commit the sin that i used to commit without batting an eye, before. i stopped myself from such a sin. thats the proof that you have been forgiven. do you have such a clear proof except a spit and a prayer of uncertainty?




[Quote]You wont be the first and surely not the last. unto your kind Jesus Christ has decreed:

Luke 10:36
"Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God, who sent me".[/Quote]the above is o the children of israel in that moment in time, since he said he was sent to them and his disciples should only preach to them and no one else. unless i am a child of israel and jesus is still here with his disciples and where i am is also israel, then what you wrote is meaningless. but then the another comforter arrived and under his domain, till the end of my life. it is in the authority of this another comforter [as] that God will Judge me, so the way to seek mercy here is sincerity of the heart. blood, from animal or human does not apply here.




[Quote]What will you do when you face the throne of Judgement(inc Muhammed) and find the Lamb of God on the throne? You guess is best as mine.[/Quote]which throne will be God then, since the 'lamb' occupies the throne of judgment? what throne will the ghost be occupying? never mind. what throne[s] will the 12 disciples be occupying? how many thrones are there? i remember somebody said paul told them in the bible that he will judge the Angels. lol. how many thrones are there, guy?




[Quote]Unto your kind these things have been hidden from.

Luke 10:21
At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hidding these things from those who think themselves WISE AND CLEVER, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it please you to do it this way.

Are you feeling cool right now with your sole purpose in life which is to discredit the word of God with satanic wisdom invested in you by the Koran. Keep it up. That is were we differ. I approach the word of God with faith like a child accepting and trusting that whatever it says is the absolute truth and nothing but the truth.[/Quote]is that verse coming from anyone who wishes people to be inclusive in the 'mercy' if it is that he brought? the one who is childlike is the nuslims who say that forgiveness is very simple, free without the cost of blood, but only from the heart. my soul purpose in life is to worship God and in the process of living tell people like you about the Most Merciful, while i present easy to accept real proof. you lack evidence that what you have is from God. God's word will not be a confusion. it will be clear and direct and will not contain words of men or their dubious agenda.
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 5:49pm On Apr 24, 2011
@Sweetnecta

I would put it to you. "The truth"

What you have is the "Spirit of Unbelief" which is a spirit of skepticism in matters of spiritual truth.

Mark 6:6 "And he was amazed at their unbelief"

The same I apply to you.  I can only pray that God thru his spirit will help you overcome your stubborn unbelief.

What is Islam? Where is the final destination of those who hold on to the Islamic faith without Christ? What are those things that dominate your faith? The answers dwells in U

You claim to have the comforter in the person of MUHAMMED shocked grin grin grin

How does the Islamic faith relate to the Holy Spirit?  How do they recieve the Power of the Holy Spirit? How does the Holy Spirit work in a muslim During worship, How does the outpouring of the Holy Spirit manifest?

As a believer in Christ Jesus the bible tell me in Romans 8:11 "The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in You(ME). And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you."

What Spirit are we talking about? The Holy Spirit, the agent of the resurrection of our bodies at the end of time. The same Spirit that opposes the power of sin. The Spirit that guaranteees that our bodies will be raised.


Now tell me, which Spirit will raise you up at the end of time? Your comforter Muhammed or Allah? Ps don't make me laugh grin

And lastly concerning the disciples

.
please do not forget that the bible recorded that no followers of jesus hung around to see his end, how could they have fought to keep him? cowards ran away. cowards do not hang around to defend their positions

Are u joking? Are u talking about peter who healed the crippled beggar at temple gate called beautiful gate.  The illterate one who was filled with the Holy Spirit and  faced the religious leaders. The one unto whom sick people were brought out into the streets on beds and mats so that his shadow might fall accross them as he went by. He did not even need to pray for them. Are u joking?

I beg bro, evaporate from this thread sad
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by olawalebabs(m): 7:16pm On Apr 24, 2011
@yommyluk go back and do more research about islamic religion, dont argue on what you have little on.
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by Sweetnecta: 8:37pm On Apr 24, 2011
@yommyuk; « #5 on: Today at 05:49:15 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta

I would put it to you. "The truth"

What you have is the "Spirit of Unbelief" which is a spirit of skepticism in matters of spiritual truth.

Mark 6:6 "And he was amazed at their unbelief"

The same I apply to you.
I can only pray that God thru his spirit will help you overcome your stubborn unbelief.[/Quote]mark6;6 was to the disciples. you must never forget that the bible recorded that jesus call the disciples all kinds of names to indicate they were unbelievers and call peter 'satan', even. now, are you of a greater belief than peter? if peter was satan as jesus saw him, are you not at least the same if not worse?



[Quote]What is Islam? Where is the final destination of those who hold on to the Islamic faith without Christ? What are those things that dominate your faith? The answers dwells in U[/Quote]islam is submission to God. the final destination of the people in islam if they are true in belief and work righteousness as much as they have the ability to work it, from the Mercy of God they will receive forgiveness and be entered into paradise without ever been punished in hell, first. it is article of faith that muslims believe in jesus the christ as a messenger and prophet in the same manner that we believe in all messengers and prophets of God, a chain that started with Adam and ended with Muhammad [as to all of them] disbelief in muhammad guaranteed such disbeliever a place in hell, after the truth about muhammad has been established and has come to his attention. you sir, yommyuk is in the disbelief column in this case.



[Quote]You claim to have the comforter in the person of MUHAMMED Shocked Grin Grin Grin

How does the Islamic faith relate to the Holy Spirit? How do they recieve the Power of the Holy Spirit? How does the Holy Spirit work in a muslim Huh During worship, How does the outpouring of the Holy Spirit manifest?[/Quote]read your bible again. while you cant give a specific name to your holy spirit and provide us with his nature as you can of jesus and the God Who sent him, it is a sign that you have no idea what is the holy spirit. we in islam do and his name is Gabriel, an angel of God, created by God from light. Gabriel is a servant of God the reason you he is involved in carrying messages, strengthening human, etc.
look into your bible, again. you will see that if we are to believe that jesus spoke about the holy spirit interracting with his community after him, according to the bible it would be in the generation of the disciple, a one time thing, and not extending to any other people in any other generation. why we know that what we read in the bible from jesus didn't happen and was not supposed to happen right away as the return of jesus was not supposed to happen right away are many;
the nature of the comforter is the nature of a spirit coming from God.
a true spirit as in immediate above is a prophet of God. read the test of the true prophet as against false prophets in your bible.
it is very very interesting that true prophet of God is singular here while false prophets is plural.
The another comforter shows that there has been other comforters or at least one prior to the another. Could you tell us who were or who was the former comforter[s] and comforter nature, if you know? why was/were they not remaining for ever, while the another comforter was to remain forever? i will say that Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are still here with us, remaining forever with us, even though none of them is walking the earth of God right now. if each of these people was not a comforter, why are they remaining forever with us, and where is that entity you call the Another comforter, today? give me is location so that i know that he is remaining with us forever, unless you are saying what the bible is saying is not accurate?

according to the Bible, the Another comforter is to have voice, ears, and can't be God because he would have known what he himself was going to say so there will not be a need to hear God first before he repeats it to human beings in his community so that they can act upon it.
what he tells them will correct their currently held but wrong conditions. so tell me what was corrected on the disciples at penticost?
he, the another comforter will lead the human that hears him, if he follows him will be led to all truth, since jesus said his community was not strong in faith to deal with the all truth. what are the all truth that the ghostly another comforter provided at penticost? give me couple of example of things unknown at the time of jesus? dont be shy since we know that jesus said he left everything to all truth for the another comforter to handle.

what about glorifying jesus? how did the ghostly another comforter managed to better the already established notion that jesus is God? teach me what i dont know and let me see your book of reference. if you can walk the walk it will better to avoid to talk the talk.



[Quote]As a believer in Christ Jesus the bible tell me in Romans 8:11 "The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in You(ME). And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you."[/Quote]while the romantic writer of the roman verse above knew nothing about jesus, his statement is irrelevant since jesus didn't say it. Alhaamdullah that his pen was made to speak the truth even while his untruth is the rest of the verse. we see that God is definitely different from Jesus. i am sure if you caught that, you would not have presented this verse. you see how God exposes lies and you cant even cover yourself? the Owner of the heart directs it as He wills.



[Quote]What Spirit are we talking about? The Holy Spirit, the agent of the resurrection of our bodies at the end of time. The same Spirit that opposes the power of sin. The Spirit that guaranteees that our bodies will be raised.[/Quote]Agent is not always at the helm.God is. i am leaving the rest alone because these are your believes based on your primary belief that jesus, ghost are both gods with God.



[Quote]Now tell me, which Spirit will raise you up at the end of time? Your comforter Muhammed or Allah? Ps don't make me laugh Grin[/Quote]there is a thread in the muslim section talking about the very subject you asked me. go and read what is posted by thee poser, about the very tip of human backbone.



[Quote]And lastly concerning the disciples

Quote
please do not forget that the bible recorded that no followers of jesus hung around to see his end, how could they have fought to keep him? cowards ran away. cowards do not hang around to defend their positions

Are u joking? Are u talking about peter who healed the crippled beggar at temple gate called beautiful gate. The illterate one who was filled with the Holy Spirit and faced the religious leaders. The one unto whom sick people were brought out into the streets on beds and mats so that his shadow might fall accross them as he went by. He did not even need to pray for them. Are u joking?

I beg bro, evaporate from this thread Sad
[/Quote]if peter was at the hanging why was he missing in action and he has no gospel of his own?
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by LagosShia: 9:30pm On Apr 24, 2011
find your answer here why muslims WILL NEVER EVER ACCEPT A "CURSE" (DEUTERONOMY 21:23,GALATIANS 3:13),I MEAN YOUR "CROSS":

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-651674.0.html


Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 8:32pm On Apr 25, 2011
you must never forget that the bible recorded that jesus call the disciples all kinds of names to indicate they were unbelievers and call peter 'satan'

Probably this is where islam and Christianity differ. How can you based your argument on St Peter's past.

2 Corin 5:16-17
"So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! ---->>>>  This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone, a new life has begun!

Prior to accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, one tends to see Christ as a good man or at most a prophet (That is were u are), but immediately we increase our knowledge by the power of the Holy Spirit, we receive a clearer revelation of who Jesus really is. We no more see him as the son of Mary, but has the son of God. Even Mary acknowledged that fact.

islam is submission to God. the final destination of the people in islam if they are true in belief and work righteousness as much as they have the ability to work it, from the Mercy of God  they will receive forgiveness and be entered into paradise without ever been punished in hell, first. it is article of faith that muslims believe in jesus the christ as a messenger and prophet in the same manner that we believe in all messengers and prophets of God, a chain that started with Adam and ended with Muhammad [as to all of them] disbelief in muhammad guaranteed such disbeliever a place in hell, after the truth about muhammad has been established and has come to his attention. you sir, yommyuk is in the disbelief column in this case.

The first part of the above is ok. However what you call the "MERCY OF GOD" is Jesus Christ which is our core belief and a highly advocated principle in Christianity. As we work towards prefection, sometimes we come short because naturally we are all rebels. Sometimes we want to do right, but we don't do it. Instead we do what we hate. God recognises this nature of man that is why he gave us his son, "that whosoever believeth in him shall not die but have everlasting life. That is why Jesus Christ said in John 14:6

" I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who may Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him"


Who is the Father? Who have they seen?

The last part of your post regarding how you/ Islam relates to Jesus, Have you really thought about why Islam never accepted Jesus as the Son of God? In my honest opinion, it goes beyond religion. It has more to do with "SIBLING JEALOUSY" which is sinnful. It started from Ismael, the first son of Abraham. But God himself declared to Abraham in Genesis 17:19-22

"But God replied, "No- Sarah, your wife will give birth to a son for you. You will name him Isaac, and I will confirm my covenant with HIM and HIS DESCENDANTS as my everlasting covenant. ----->>>>> As for Ismael, I will bless him also, just as you have asked. I will make him extremely fruitful and multiply his descendants. He will become the father of 12 princes, and I will make him a great nation. By my covenant will be confirmed with Isaac, who will be born to you and Sarah about this time next year."

The promise made towards ISMAEL is one of the reasons why I never discard ISLAM.

1 Corinthians 1:25
"This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wiset of human plans, and God weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength"

On that I rest my case cool

read your bible again. while you cant give a specific name to your holy spirit and provide us with his nature as you can of jesus and the God Who sent him, it is a sign that you have no idea what is the holy spirit. we in islam do and his name is Gabriel, an angel of God, created by God from light. Gabriel is a servant of God the reason you he is involved in carrying messages, strengthening human, etc.

Matthew 1:18
This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was STILL A VIRGIN, she became pregnant through THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. ---- HALLELUYAH!

A specific name for the Holy Spirit you asked for ---  JESUS CHRIST - the one who was born of the HOLY SPIRIT.
The one who while praying, the heavens opened, and the Holy Spirit, in bodily form, descended on him like a dove and a voice from heaven declared "This is my beloved SON in whom I am well pleased.

Well pleased? Why? Colossians 1:19 "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ"

Did I hear u call Angel Gabriel the Holy Spirit? shocked OMG cool

Isaiah 11:2
And the Spirit of the Lord will rest on him- The Spirit of Wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of Knowledge and the fear of the Lord"---------------------------------------------- undecided

I would not say much.

Go to Celestial Chruch of Christ HQ in MAKOKO - Lagos. on a Sunday service 10am, and see the manifestation of the Holy Spirit face to face.
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by Sweetnecta: 1:14pm On Apr 26, 2011
@yommyuk; « #9 on: Yesterday at 08:32:59 PM »
[Quote]Quote
you must never forget that the bible recorded that jesus call the disciples all kinds of names to indicate they were unbelievers and call peter 'satan'

Probably this is where islam and Christianity differ. How can you based your argument on St Peter's past.[/Quote]the same peter you flaunted as the beacon of good wholesomeness before is now being denied by you.




[Quote]2 Corin 5:16-17
"So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! ---->>>> This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone, a new life has begun!

Prior to accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, one tends to see Christ as a good man or at most a prophet (That is were u are), but immediately we increase our knowledge by the power of the Holy Spirit, we receive a clearer revelation of who Jesus really is. We no more see him as the son of Mary, but has the son of God. Even Mary acknowledged that fact.[/Quote]paul already got you cornered with his cooked up story. the aborisha can you your logic to elevate their deity to Deity. did you see any verse in that your not 100% true Bible where Yahweh Who is not seen makes Himself less than God? any verse will be enough. contrast it with the lies above, as sometime he was just a prophet, but now that you accept him as your savior he becomes God. is this not a mere wishful thinking? is God Almighty enough as Savior?




[Quote]Quote
islam is submission to God. the final destination of the people in islam if they are true in belief and work righteousness as much as they have the ability to work it, from the Mercy of God they will receive forgiveness and be entered into paradise without ever been punished in hell, first. it is article of faith that muslims believe in jesus the christ as a messenger and prophet in the same manner that we believe in all messengers and prophets of God, a chain that started with Adam and ended with Muhammad [as to all of them] disbelief in muhammad guaranteed such disbeliever a place in hell, after the truth about muhammad has been established and has come to his attention. you sir, yommyuk is in the disbelief column in this case.

The first part of the above is ok. However what you call the "MERCY OF GOD" is Jesus Christ which is our core belief and a highly advocated principle in Christianity. As we work towards prefection, sometimes we come short because naturally we are all rebels. Sometimes we want to do right, but we don't do it. Instead we do what we hate. God recognises this nature of man that is why he gave us his son, "that whosoever believeth in him shall not die but have everlasting life. That is why Jesus Christ said in John 14:6[/Quote]before the God in the bible didn't recognized all the faults in man. now that you introduced jesus, the God recognized the faults and therefore produced jesus as mercy. This is the same God Who showed mercy on Mary, before that on Elizabeth, before then,many people including forgiven Adam and Eve. the liars will want to justify jesus, so they transferred the already forgiven sin to you and those who believe with you. well i dont have this concept because God is Sufficient in forgiveness. i do not inherit an already forgiven sin. My God is capable to forgive His creatures if yours cant, hence he employed an outside agent. your son is not you. and when we ask you to explain how he is His son when Mary was certain that you can have a son at that time as a virgin without a man, you will give me a round about story that will amount to nothing. creations from God have been in 5 categories; from nothingness, from one form to another, from one gender to another, from sex, from without sex. jesus was created without sex. so was Adam and Eve. Adam was created from something of different form. Eve was created from different gender. Both were the first in their gender. Adam was created first in human form. Both were created as adults, while jesus was created as a baby like you and i. even today the non reproductive ants [termites] are produced without male sperm on the egg. does that make them gods, if jesus was without a father?




[Quote]" I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who may Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him"[/Quote]imagine when the flood in noah's time starting up. noah cry was if you do not come to me, you will perish because i am the way. his son didnt listen and he perished. Every prophet was the way. no one knew jesus when moses was the way out of egypt to canaan.




[Quote]Who is the Father? Who have they seen?

The last part of your post regarding how you/ Islam relates to Jesus, Have you really thought about why Islam never accepted Jesus as the Son of God? In my honest opinion, it goes beyond religion. It has more to do with "SIBLING JEALOUSY" which is sinnful. It started from Ismael, the first son of Abraham. But God himself declared to Abraham in Genesis 17:19-22[/Quote]sons of God saw daughters of men. were these the brothers of the son of God you believed? sibling of young children is acceptable. but sibling jealousy of the type between jacob and esau was unacceptable. these were grown men. islam does not count the misdeeds of children as sins. it does not transfer sins. it does not continue to hold a sin forgiven against you. christianity does all of these.




[Quote]"But God replied, "No- Sarah, your wife will give birth to a son for you. You will name him Isaac, and I will confirm my covenant with HIM and HIS DESCENDANTS as my everlasting covenant. ----->>>>> As for Ismael, I will bless him also, just as you have asked. I will make him extremely fruitful and multiply his descendants. He will become the father of 12 princes, and I will make him a great nation. By my covenant will be confirmed with Isaac, who will be born to you and Sarah about this time next year."[/Quote]you remember the test to slaughter the son? it is ishmael who was the son. the muslims observe this great event in remembrance of father and son. the jews and cheistians dont because it was not isaac. well try to give me a good reason they dont since the jews observe such a mundane event as the victory of the macabees over assyrians. so your jealousy story is meaningless.




[Quote]The promise made towards ISMAEL is one of the reasons why I never discard ISLAM.

1 Corinthians 1:25
"This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wiset of human plans, and God weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength"[/Quote]how did he decide what is foolish in that verse? foolishness and God are not in the same column.




[Quote]On that I rest my case Cool

Quote
read your bible again. while you cant give a specific name to your holy spirit and provide us with his nature as you can of jesus and the God Who sent him, it is a sign that you have no idea what is the holy spirit. we in islam do and his name is Gabriel, an angel of God, created by God from light. Gabriel is a servant of God the reason you he is involved in carrying messages, strengthening human, etc.

Matthew 1:18
This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was STILL A VIRGIN, she became pregnant through THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. ---- HALLELUYAH![/Quote]where was mary living when she got pregnant? i hpe you will be wise enough to know that fiancee/fiance did not live together back then.




[Quote]A specific name for the Holy Spirit you asked for --- JESUS CHRIST - the one who was born of the HOLY SPIRIT.
The one who while praying, the heavens opened, and the Holy Spirit, in bodily form, descended on him like a dove and a voice from heaven declared "This is my beloved SON in whom I am well pleased.[/Quote]so we have two holy spirits then? one of then spoke from heaven about the other on earth. is that it? yet, the one from heaven will be sent by his son who was the other one that made the promise? nd God is not the Author of confusion.




[Quote]Well pleased? Why? Colossians 1:19 "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ"[/Quote]while Jesus said God resides in heaven, colossians writer says God resides in Jesus, forgeting that jesus was claimed to have died, earlier. imagine what happened to what resides in jesus while jesus died, not even mentioning the events on the cross which indicated that God could not have been so close to jesus, the reason he cried out, since God is all hearing, even when you whisper, even talking in your heart.




[Quote]Did I hear u call Angel Gabriel the Holy Spirit? Shocked OMG Cool[/Quote]when i read omg or mog from christians these days, i know some big lie is on the way.




[Quote]Isaiah 11:2
And the Spirit of the Lord will rest on him- The Spirit of Wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of Knowledge and the fear of the Lord"---------------------------------------------- Undecided[/Quote]Show me holy spirit, or another comforter or jesus in the above? did the spirit of God rest on jesus alone; how about john? solomon the wise, was jesus wiser and how? show me any of the above that only jesus had?




[Quote]I would not say much.

Go to Celestial Chruch of Christ HQ in MAKOKO - Lagos. on a Sunday service 10am, and see the manifestation of the Holy Spirit face to face.[/Quote]the holy spirit was restricted to penticost unless the bible was incorrect?
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by Alagbede7(m): 5:42pm On Apr 26, 2011
why many Christians are not to your belief and respect the beliefs of others?
living impose the weight of a cross that does not belong to other faiths?

one of the great mysteries of mankind ,
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 8:11pm On Apr 26, 2011
Alagbede7:

why many Christians are not to your belief and respect the beliefs of others?
living impose the weight of a cross that does not belong to other faiths?

one of the great mysteries of mankind ,

We do not impose, we just generate awareness, so that at the end of time you cannot not say we(CHRISTIANS) have not done our duty cool
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 9:31pm On Apr 26, 2011
@sweetnetca

I do not won't to go round in circles with u. My time is very valuable. I like planting my seed on a fertile ground.

I have done my bit cool
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by dare2think: 10:03pm On Apr 26, 2011
@yommyuk

pls stop all that bigotry stuff.

Did you say we "Christains" on Jugdment day?
Did God tell you Christians are his only children?  Stop all this "US" AND "THEM" sentiments.

There are thousands of faiths around the world with three being the Major ones.
Dont you know religous tolerance is what makes society move forward?

Pls what is your duty? To down grade other faiths (Awareness) at the expense of yours? Is that what Christianity is about?

Have you forgotten that it was the europeans that brought the religion to our ancestors? Are you aware that it(Christianity) was used to justify slavery?

yommyuk:

We do not impose, we just generate awareness, so that at the end of time you cannot not say we(CHRISTIANS) have not done our duty cool
Did God say to you only christians would enter his kingdom?  Why cant you practice your faith and leave others to do the same?
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 12:54am On Apr 27, 2011
dare2think:

@yommyuk
pls stop all that bigotry stuff.

Why did frustration? Is the truth too hot for you to handle?

Did you say we "Christains" on Jugdment day?
Did God tell you Christians are his only children?  Stop all this "US" AND "THEM" sentiments.

Absolutely Yes!

John 1:10
He came into the very world he created, but the world didn't recognise him. He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become CHILDREN OF GOD.

There are thousands of faiths around the world with three being the Major ones.
Dont you know religous tolerance is what makes society move forward?

Tolerate what? Don't you know that tolerance leads to compromise. Allowing evil to prevail.  So my bro, I no gree angry

Pls what is your duty? To down grade other faiths (Awareness) at the expense of yours? Is that what Christianity is about
Not only to downgrade, but to eliminate if possible without violence cool


Have you forgotten that it
was the europeans that brought the religion to our ancestors? Are you aware that it(Christianity) was used to justify slavery?
u can do better than the above plsssssssssss
Did God say to you only christians would enter his kingdom? 

YES
Why cant you practice your faith and leave others to do the same
Because I do not want their blood on my hands. However as long as I do my bit, I should be ok lol
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 7:35pm On Apr 28, 2011
grin  grin Interesting thots though, never seen a Muslim so tolerant of christian ideals like sweetnecta. still i'd like to see someone shove a Bible down their throat  grin I dare you (Pigs will fly)  grin
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by yommyuk: 8:49pm On Apr 28, 2011
lagerwhenindoubt:

grin grin Interesting thots though, never seen a Muslim so [b]IN[/b]tolerant of christian ideals like sweetnecta. still i'd like to see someone shove a Bible down their throat grin I dare you (Pigs will fly) grin

Small fry cool
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by theseeker2: 3:47pm On Dec 06, 2011
LagosShia:

find your answer here why muslims WILL NEVER EVER ACCEPT A "CURSE" (DEUTERONOMY 21:23,GALATIANS 3:13),I MEAN YOUR "CROSS":

http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-651674.0.html




This picture simply sums up the ideolgy of the xtian. You can drink, lie, fornicate, steal, and commit all kinds of evil but u will still make heaven as long as you belive god slaughtered his son for you.
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by frosbel(m): 3:51pm On Dec 06, 2011
In Islam you can kill, blow up innocent women and children, commit temporary marriages, lie, hate, treat you wives like cattle , behead the infidel and still end up in Paradise undecided undecided

Shocking grin
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by LagosShia: 7:53pm On Dec 06, 2011
frosbel:

In Islam you can kill, blow up innocent women and children, commit temporary marriages, lie, hate, treat you wives like cattle , behead the infidel and still end up in Paradise undecided undecided

Shocking grin

no no no!

let us be honest here.you are denying christianity!

it is only in christianity the magic blood of Jesus gives you a free flight and visa to paradise without carrying out religious obligations.i have even witnessed a thief who was a so called "born again" christian who believes in that "magical blood".

we muslims pray 5 times a day,fast,go on pilgrimage,do not drink,no gamble,no pork,give charity,and fulfill many laws for society to be sane.if muslims commit sin,they must repent and atone for themselves.but christians have falsely placed all their thousand and one sins on the shoulders of Jesus!poor Jesus!!! cry

Major Yeats-Brown, in his "Life of a Bengal Lancer", summarises the Christian Doctrine of the Atonement in just a single sentence:

"NO HEATHEN TRIBE HAS CONCEIVED SO GROTESQUE AN IDEA, INVOLVING AS IT DOES THE ASSUMPTION, THAT MAN WAS BORN WITH A HEREDITARY STAIN UPON HIM: AND THAT THIS STAIN (FOR WHICH HE WAS NOT PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE) WAS TO BE ATONED FOR: AND THAT THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS HAD TO SACRIFICE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO NEUTRALISE THIS MYSTERIOUS CURSE."

Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by LagosShia: 8:00pm On Dec 06, 2011
WHY MUSLIMS WILL NEVER ACCEPT YOUR CROSS?

"Where Is Jesus"?
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739871.0.html

"Jesus Never Told Anyone He Will Die For Them"!
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-735489.0.html

"the Christian God:blood And Human Sacrifice"
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-651811.0.html

"original Sin"-linking It To An Imperfect God!
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-551599.0.html

"The Christian Resurrection Myth"!
http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739850.0.html
Re: Why Muslims Must Accept The Message Of The Cross by tintingz(m): 5:41pm On Jul 26, 2012
I should accept the message of the cross? When he Jesus is crying and shouting " Eloi Eloi my God my God why have you leave me" Jesus is calling for his creator in heaven and i should accept the criminal cross of the jews to be my salvation? tongue ...arrgh...hoo...ehee...xtians are reali lost sheep of naija cheesy

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