It's your conscience that's pricking you. If you are thinking of my imaginary God, he must have dominated your mind all day long.


You seem to think of him even more than I do. I must say I'm even ashamed I don't have as much devotion as I see you display. I must really up my game, thank you for reminding me how God is so important even to the unbelieving atheist.

FatherOfJesus:
You don’t have to mention God before we know that you are trying to defend your imaginary friend.

You don’t have to go as far as denying your friend

peggywebbs:

It's your conscience that's pricking you. If you are thinking of my imaginary God, he must have dominated your mind all day long.


You seem to think of him even more than I do. I must say I'm even ashamed I don't have as much devotion as I see you display. I must really up my game, thank you for reminding me how God is so important even to the unbelieving atheist.

You god is one of the important gods out of 4000 of them.
I personally think Odin and Zeus are more important. Lol

Dtruthspeaker:


Everything we are talking about are ABOUT THINGS SEEN, KNOWN AND EXPERIENCED by us the man, whether in this mighty House called the earth or the the compound surrounding the earth which we call the universe, exactly as your car can only validly give Truthful comments about the place where it is and what it can see.

It can not give any Valid and Truthful information on things outside it's experience or sight exactly as a carpenter can not give a Truthful and valid lecture about heart transplant!

Repeating the same fallacy I called you out on.

I don't know what brand of car you drive, but my car doesn't have self-awareness, a mind, nor can it talk or make comments.

My attempt to interpret your words. Which boils down to "the creator is unknowable to us" as your reply to my previous post.
Then why assume to know it's will, who or what this creator is, or even if they exist?
You can't know the unknowable, that's why it's unknowable.

It is not fallacious because It is True!

And you have said the only advantage/difference between yourselves and inanimate tools, "independence" of a slight degree and Accountability!

After that, you suffer every ailment and defect and weakness every toy and tool has!

You are in a garage like your car, you have limited and specific function like phone and laptop, you are capable of being possessed as your leaders have shown you, you are expendable as a used condom!

That is the bitter Truth!

"It's not fallacious because it's true" circular reasoning

I thought the relationship between man and the biblical creator was akin to a father and his children (made from his image).
But it seems your individual view is that man is simply a tool to a creator. A tool to serve a purpose and to be merely discarded afterwards.

Quite a pessimistic view of human existence you have there. I've followed a little of Christian philosophy, your view is definitely unorthodox.

What you describe here is a tyrannical being, that would create conscious life, for his own amusement.

But to not get off topic,
Let me recap.
- I said it's ok to say "I don't know" to the hypothesis of God creating the universe and to try to prove it wrong or right.
- You made an argument using human tools as a comparison that everything needs to be created, which should be proof of a creator.
- I asked does this logic apply to the creator as well, did he needed to be created.
- You replied "the creator is unknowable"
- I'm replying with if he's unknowable, then what's the point? Why assume he's existence or to know anything about him/it to begin with?

IMAliyu:

Repeating the same fallacy I called you out on.

I don't know what brand of car you drive, but my car doesn't have self-awareness, a mind, nor can it talk or make comments.

My attempt to interpret your words. Which boils down to "the creator is unknowable to us" as your reply to my previous post.
Then why assume to know it's will, who or what this creator is, or even if they exist?
You can't know the unknowable, that's why it's unknowable.


"It's not fallacious because it's true" circular reasoning

I thought the relationship between man and the biblical creator was akin to a father and his children (made from his image).
But it seems your individual view is that man is simply a tool to a creator. A tool to serve a purpose and to be merely discarded afterwards.

Quite a pessimistic view of human existence you have there. I've followed a little of Christian philosophy, your view is definitely unorthodox.

What you describe here is a tyrannical being, that would create conscious life, for his own amusement.

But to not get off topic,
Let me recap.
- I said it's ok to say "I don't know" to the hypothesis of God creating the universe and to try to prove it wrong or right.
- You made an argument using human tools as a comparison that everything needs to be created, which should be proof of a creator.
- I asked does this logic apply to the creator as well, did he needed to be created.
- You replied "the creator is unknowable"
- I'm replying with if he's unknowable, then what's the point? Why assume he's existence or to know anything about him/it to begin with?

You are wasting your precious time with the dtruthspeaker. Dude has an I.Q level less than kindergartens and doesn’t know how not to commit fallacies. It’s stressful arguing with him unless you want to bash him.
It’s like trying to explain quantum physics to a banker, such person cannot comprehend the rules of physics, it becomes worse when such person is a colossal ignoramus like dtruthspeaker who doesn’t want to learn stuffs. Stop wasting your precious time on him. It’s not worth it unless you have some spare time to attend to stupid people with absolutely no philosophical background.

FatherOfJesus:
You are wasting your precious time with the dtruthspeaker. Dude has an I.Q level less than kindergartens and doesn’t know how not to commit fallacies. It’s stressful arguing with him unless you want to bash him.
It’s like trying to explain quantum physics to a banker, such person cannot comprehend the rules of physics, it becomes worse when such person is a colossal ignoramus like dtruthspeaker who doesn’t want to learn stuffs. Stop wasting your precious time on him. It’s not worth it unless you have some spare time to attend to stupid people with absolutely no philosophical background.

It's a weekend, I got time. JK
I try to assume someone maybe has something intelligent to say for a bit before I call it quits. Depending on his next reply I planned to end it.

FatherOfJesus:
You are wasting your precious time with the dtruthspeaker. Dude has an I.Q level less than kindergartens and doesn’t know how not to commit fallacies. It’s stressful arguing with him unless you want to bash him.
It’s like trying to explain quantum physics to a banker, such person cannot comprehend the rules of physics, it becomes worse when such person is a colossal ignoramus like dtruthspeaker who doesn’t want to learn stuffs. Stop wasting your precious time on him. It’s not worth it unless you have some spare time to attend to stupid people with absolutely no philosophical background.

Translation! I confess, we are never going to b able to have reasonable and Truthful Counter to DTruthspeaker's Presentation, it is too Strong and none of us are ever going to break through it.

IMAliyu:

Repeating the same fallacy I called you out on.

All Fallacies are based on that which is Not True or Not Wholly True.

Speaking Truth is NO FALLACY! CHECK THEM OUT! I will give you N5k if Wrong!

So do not be or go into unreasonablilty just because you find difficulty in shooting my assertion down!

As you said earlier "A truth should be able to survive any amount of questioning and challenges to it."

So validly and reasonably question my assertion to see if it TRULY BREAKS!

And it is obvious you have just picked up an interest in fallacies, which the Op just learnt 2 or 3 months back!

IMAliyu:

I don't know what brand of car you drive, but my car doesn't have self-awareness, a mind, nor can it talk or make comments.

I clearly said ""independence" of a slight degree and Accountability!" Is the ONLY DIFFERENCE!

Therefore 9/10 you are the same with your car.

So this is No Issue and Neither have you rebutted my assertion.

All you have done is to present your peculiarities which I have also said is the Only difference between you and your phone!

IMAliyu:

My attempt to interpret your words. Which boils down to "the creator is unknowable to us" as your reply to my previous post.
Then why assume to know it's will, who or what this creator is, or even if they exist?
You can't know the unknowable, that's why it's unknowable.

Exactly as you speaking to your car and toys, The Creator is reported to have Spoken to us, His Creation, saying things Only a Creator can Say to His creation!

That's how we know His Will!

IMAliyu:

I thought the relationship between man and the biblical creator was akin to a father and his children (made from his image).
But it seems your individual view is that man is simply a tool to a creator. A tool to serve a purpose and to be merely discarded afterwards.

Father and children doctrine is a misnomer and a misrepresentation!

The True Doctrine is Creator/creation.

And Every Creator Loves His creations Exactly as you love your toys eg car and phone and you take care of them and maintain them because you were happy to have made them and their activities pleased you, the Creator.

When you were displeased with your car, phone or stuff, you disposed of it in any way or manner you pleased even up to destruction and abandonment and you refused maintain and take care of them (as many souls cry out today, in proof that you are a creation requiring maintenance and upkeep!

IMAliyu:

Quite a pessimistic view of human existence you have there. I've followed a little of Christian philosophy, your view is definitely unorthodox.

We live in a world plentous in Lies and again as You said earlier, which I restated herein, A truth should be able to survive any amount of questioning and challenges to it., that philosophy is also my Law which being a Lawyer, we say "Anything that does not stand the Fire of Cross-examination, IS NOT TRUE"

Which is why atheist made many Christians Fall for Standing on that Misrepresentation of Father and children instead of Creator-creation!

IMAliyu:

What you describe here is a tyrannical being, that would create conscious life, for his own amusement.

Be reasonable and True and Do Not Lie when you create did you create for the pleasure of the creation or you created for your own pleasure?

This is A Law and A Certain Truth, Every Creator creates for His Own Pleasure and Happiness!!

No one has created because he was Angry neither did you create because your creation would be happy to be created.

These are Solid Truths!

IMAliyu:

But to not get off topic,
Let me recap.
- I said it's ok to say "I don't know" to the hypothesis of God creating the universe and to try to prove it wrong or right.
- You made an argument using human tools as a comparison that everything needs to be created, which should be proof of a creator.
- I asked does this logic apply to the creator as well, did he needed to be created.
- You replied "the creator is unknowable"
- I'm replying with if he's unknowable, then what's the point?

You are the Ones Seeking Answers to Unknowables and beyond reachables so it is wrong and unfair for you to blame us or accuse for not supplying an Answer that is impossible for us to supply!

Meanwhile, we are not interested in that area since it impossible but you are the ones interested in that impossibility.

So the burden is on you guys to pursue that impossibility while we watch and mock!

IMAliyu:

Why assume he's existence or to know anything about him/it to begin with?

As I answered earlier, Confining ourselves to what we have seen and known and experience in this earth, We Already have The Proof of His Existence which is NO THING we have seen, known and experienced in this earth Ever Created Itself man included!

As Seen in this earth, All things are created by Another Greater and Better Being!

The thing itself Never creates itself!

Thus, the earth itself and all that is in it is Both our Proof and our Witness!

So there is No Assumption, Only Certainty.

Any Further Questions?

Dtruthspeaker:


Translation! I confess, we are never going to b able to have reasonable and Truthful Counter to DTruthspeaker's Presentation, it is too Strong and none of us are ever going to break through it.

I do not have your time. You know how it ends when I do.

No.
Believing in God is believing in the Source of the Universe. It is THEISM.

FatherOfJesus:
I do not have your time. You know how it ends when I do.

Of course you do not! It is settled in you that you can never ever reasonably and validly break through or break down any of my Mountains as IMAliyu rightly and Truly said "A truth should be Able To Survive Any Amount of Questioning and Challenges to it."

And you have never ever been able to remove the Truths I have presented.

So it is wise to stay silent until you have A Good And Reasonable Counter strong enough to rebut God Established Truths!

So go ahead and follow them. Again it's your choice. If you believe in them why not? In fact you can tell us more about them probably you will be able to gain more followers in your religion.

FatherOfJesus:
You god is one of the important gods out of 4000 of them.
I personally think Odin and Zeus are more important. Lol

peggywebbs:

So go ahead and follow them. Again it's your choice. If you believe in them why not? In fact you can tell us more about them probably you will be able to gain more followers in your religion.

But makes your God fake

It's not a competition. It's all about your choice... that's what free will is.

FatherOfJesus:
But makes your God fake

peggywebbs:
It's not a competition. It's all about your choice... that's what free will is.

4,100 choices. That’s a lot of probabilities

Yup .you have your work cut out for you... you can choose none, all or one. Again your choice. At least that will keep you busy and away from mine.�

FatherOfJesus:
4,100 choices. That’s a lot of probabilities

Dtruthspeaker:


All Fallacies are based on that which is Not True or Not Wholly True.

Speaking Truth is NO FALLACY! CHECK THEM OUT! I will give you N5k if Wrong!

As you said earlier "A truth should be able to survive any amount of questioning and challenges to it."

So validly and reasonably question my assertion to see if it TRULY BREAKS!

And it is obvious you have just picked up an interest in fallacies, which the Op just learnt 2 or 3 months back!

So do not be or go into unreasonablilty just because you find difficulty in shooting my assertion down!

Fallacy (an argument based on faulty reasoning.)

What fautly reasoning am I talking about here?
It's the "what I'm saying is the true" why is it true? "Because it's the truth" why is it the truth? "because it's true".
It's called circular reasoning.
You give no sufficient reason as to why it's true, only repeating that it's true.
"it's not a fallacy because it's true"
Why? "because it's self evident"

And the thing I was calling you out on was your equivocation of People with cars and phones (tools), because as you believe humans were created, and tools are creations, therefore both are the same.
It's like saying plants are a form of life, and cats are a form of life, therefore both cats and plants are the same. Ignoring the obvious glaring differences.

While a truth should be able to survive scrutiny.

Something my Prof said, "Just because someone is unable to make enquiries about your work, doesn't always mean it's correct. It could just easily be that you've confused your audience"

I clearly said ""independence" of a slight degree and Accountability!" Is the ONLY DIFFERENCE!

Therefore 9/10 you are the same with your car.

So this is No Issue and Neither have you rebutted my assertion.

All you have done is to present your peculiarities which I have also said is the Only difference between you and your phone!

So by Independence, you mean that unlike a tool, no one is operating a man.
Therefore a tool and a person are nothing alike as you keep asserting.
Also if man is not really independent then accountability is waste of time.

Accountability for ones actions. This is also something that would make your tool and man comparison invalid.
As your phone and car can't and do not operate themselves and there makers don't come to reward or torture them at the end of the day for their actions.
If there is a fault with a phone its usually either the user's fault or the manufacturer's fault, and the basic instinct is to fix the device or replace it.

Exactly as you speaking to your car and toys, The Creator is reported to have Spoken to us, His Creation, saying things Only a Creator can Say to His creation!

That's how we know His Will!

If you talk to your car and toys, I'll be concerned about your mental health, but I digress.

And how is this will communicated, where do I go to find it?

Father and children doctrine is a misnomer and a misrepresentation!

The True Doctrine is Creator/creation.

And Every Creator Loves His creations Exactly as you love your toys eg car and phone and you take care of them and maintain them because you were happy to have made them and their activities pleased you, the Creator.

When you were displeased with your car, phone or stuff, you disposed of it in any way or manner you pleased even up to destruction and abandonment and you refused maintain and take care of them (as many souls cry out today, in proof that you are a creation requiring maintenance and upkeep!

Ok, I'm not a Christian so I won't go into this, but I can assure you this is a view unique to you, from my experience.

We live in a world plentous in Lies and again as You said earlier, which I restated herein, A truth should be able to survive any amount of questioning and challenges to it., that philosophy is also my Law which being a Lawyer, we say "Anything that does not stand the Fire of Cross-examination, IS NOT TRUE"

And I also said "I appreciate a more clinical and organised manner of unconvering things of importance"
If not everyone will just invent there own standard/definition for what counts as truth and what constitutes as evidence for them.

That's why for example the scientific method, you start with a hypothesis, then create a way test your hypothesis as right or wrong, if there is sufficient data to show your hypothesis is right, or you have an experiment that proves it right, you write a paper detailing your hypothesis and it's experiment for other people to test it themselves and after this peer review if found to correct by your peers. It becomes a scientific theory.
There is a process that helps weed out wrong assumptions.

Be reasonable and True and Do Not Lie when you create did you create for the pleasure of the creation or you created for your own pleasure?

This is A Law and A Certain Truth, Every Creator creates for His Own Pleasure and Happiness!!

No one has created because he was Angry neither did you create because your creation would be happy to be created.

These are Solid Truths!

"The creator is unknownable" but somehow you know the reason for why he/it creates.

Did he communicate this to you?

You are the Ones Seeking Answers to Unknowables and beyond reachables so it is wrong and unfair for you to blame us or accuse for not supplying an Answer that is impossible for us to supply!

Meanwhile, we are not interested in that area since it impossible but you are the ones interested in that impossibility.

So the burden is on you guys to pursue that impossibility while we watch and mock!

My guy, you were the one that eagarly engaged me in the first place as though you had all the answers.
Since you don't, being humble and a simple I don't know is more than sufficient.

As I answered earlier, Confining ourselves to what we have seen and known and experience in this earth, We Already have The Proof of His Existence which is NO THING we have seen, known and experienced in this earth Ever Created Itself man included!

As Seen in this earth, All things are created by Another Greater and Better Being!

The thing itself Never creates itself!

Thus, the earth itself and all that is in it is Both our Proof and our Witness!

So there is No Assumption, Only Certainty.

Any Further Questions?

When speaking of inventions, I'd agree with you. We created the tools we use from things around us. And also true we've not witnessed anything spontaneously create itself, neither have we witnessed a creator(man or deity) create something from a void either.

When we peer into the world in an attempt to understand it, with no preconceptions the evidence we find is everything comes from a predecessor and a process, you came from your parents and they came from their parents and the process goes back all the way to something we don't know yet. A rock forms from molten magma from inside the earth pouring out, the earth formed from an accretion of dust.., Matter came from the big bang and the big bang comes from we don't know.

You are free to fill in the gaps with a creator, however people that do that seem to assume they have complete knowledge.

Anyway I'll entertain only one more reply before I call it a day.

IMAliyu:

Fallacy (an argument based on faulty reasoning.)

I have a Degree in Philosophy also and I am An Authority on Fallacies!

The Law of Fallacy is to Safe Guard Truths and Whole Truths. Half-Truths and Partial Truths are Also Prohib6i do not qualify to be Accepted as Truths.

Examine all the types of fallacies identified, which ONE of them Condemns a Whole Truth? (I will give you N5k if you find ONE!

IMAliyu:

What fautly reasoning am I talking about here?
It's the "what I'm saying is the true" why is it true? "Because it's the truth" why is it the truth? "because it's true".
It's called circular reasoning.

Check your statement up there, DID YOU EVER CONTESTEDTHAT WHAT I SAID IS NOT TRUE OR DID YOU DEMAND
"WHY IS IT TRUE," at all?

IMAliyu:

You give no sufficient reason as to why it's true, only repeating that it's true.
"it's not a fallacy because it's true"

You never asked!

IMAliyu:

And the thing I was calling you out on was your equivocation of People with cars and phones (tools), because as you believe humans were created, and tools are creations, therefore both are the same.
It's like saying plants are a form of life, and cats are a form of life, therefore both cats and plants are the same. Ignoring the obvious glaring differences.

The highlighted is wrong and Truly fallacious and I never made such a connection.

I have clearly premised and presented that "we are creations" and the only reasonable evidence that I could provide In proof of this fact and premise is to point out other known items that are also known to have been most certainly created, so that you can see by comparing if both are the same, Exactly as we have to compare if Honda Accord and Honda CrossTour are the same.

IMAliyu:

Something my Prof said, "Just because someone is unable to make enquiries about your work, doesn't always mean it's correct.

He's wrong, for when you enter an office or bar and no one complains, it clearly means you are permitted to enter therein. That's why Law is the greatest Profession, For All these things are Covered by Law.

"In the Absence of An Objection, Truth is Seen and Established" exactly as you see in meetings and gatherings.

IMAliyu:

So by Independence, you mean that unlike a tool, no one is operating a man.

See, I hear a question of clarification here but you chose to carry on as if this was my True Meaning (Fraud) which I gave, whereas I gave no such meaning!

IMAliyu:

Therefore a tool and a person are nothing alike as you keep asserting.
Also if man is not really independent then accountability is waste of time.

See, what I complained about? Running with what is not mine yet you have ascribed it to me! (Fraud)!

Meanwhile, you got my Truest Meaning but because you wiggle yourself out of the fix you are in, you are feigning misinterpretation and changed my meaning into some other meaning I did not give. (Fraud)

IMAliyu:

Accountability for ones actions. This is also something that would make your tool and man comparison invalid...

How can you join them when I have separated them already on this fact already? (Fraud)

Did I not clearly exclude this fact?

Cheating will not get you out of this box!

IMAliyu:

And how is this will communicated, where do I go to find it?

Not the topic of discussion

IMAliyu:

And I also said "I appreciate a more clinical and organised manner of unconvering things of importance"


If not everyone will just invent there own standard/definition for what counts as truth and what constitutes as evidence for them.

As undertaking by other persons other than you. I love to run my own trials so that I know that which is True First Hand!

And The Law of Evidence is the Highest Authority on what constitutes Evidence in the whole world and there is No Second!

You should study The Law of Evidence!

IMAliyu:

"The creator is unknownable" but somehow you know the reason for why he/it creates.

Did he communicate this to you?

Am I not a creator myself? Shall a driver not know another driver and shall a doctor not know a fellow doctor?

I see you are running out of reasonability!

IMAliyu:

Since you don't, being humble and a simple I don't know is more than sufficient.

I have already answered

IMAliyu:

When speaking of inventions, I'd agree with you. We created the tools we use from things around us. And also true we've not witnessed anything spontaneously create itself, neither have we witnessed a creator(MAN or deity) create something from a void either

At the Bold! Wrong Again. Man has done that "Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, Shares, Ponzi Schemes, are all Voids which became real things that people saw to be real!

IMAliyu:

...You are free to fill in the gaps with a creator, however people that do that seem to assume they have complete knowledge.

Which is why we mock on and ridicule while they dissipate serious time and energy doing a foolish thing that has no end. Exactly as using a fork to empty the sea!

And funny enough you are not doing that foolish work oh, but you are ready to praise sing the fool who did that.

Anyway, it's your right but I also have a right to mock a foolish enterprise, when my attention is drawn to it!

IMAliyu:

Anyway I'll entertain only one more reply before I call it a day.

I think we are actually done for you have not said anything new save for some Frauds and misrepresentations

So Aluta Continua for you, but thanks for being substantially reasonable and truthly as you possibly could!

Dtruthspeaker:


Because it is proven by evidence that Chaos does not and cannot create.

Explosion tears apart matter, Creation puts together matter, that is The Law!

How is it proven?
Monkeys randomly hitting a keyboard would compose the works of Shakespeare given enough time...it's not something impossible.
Yes randomness can create "order." Simplicity can birth complexity.

Dtruthspeaker:


I have a Degree in Philosophy also and I am An Authority on Fallacies!

The Law of Fallacy is to Safe Guard Truths and Whole Truths. Half-Truths and Partial Truths are Also Prohib6i do not qualify to be Accepted as Truths.

Examine all the types of fallacies identified, which ONE of them Condemns a Whole Truth? (I will give you N5k if you find ONE!

This conversation has diverged from the original topic into the many sub topics, and now we're discussing fallacies.

Clarification.
"An argument containing a fallacy doesn't always mean the premises is false."

not interested in your money...

However I still reject your premise which was.
"is there anything in this world which created itself? Eg biro, phone, car, man
No not one!
...
All these things being self evident and True!"

Which I understood as, you stating "everything that exists was created by a creator, because it's self evident."
Which is a preconception I didn't hold, something that's not self evident to me.
That's why I asked does this logic apply to the creator (God) which many view as an exception to the rule, to which your reply was roughly "it's unknowable"

I won't deny a bit of a comprehension issue on my part looking back now. But you write in a manner that doesn't help with comprehension either like for example
"Exactly as you speaking to your car and toys, The Creator is reported to have Spoken to us, His Creation, saying things Only a Creator can Say to His creation!
That's how we know His Will!"
Like what does this mean? Who the hell speaks to cars? What are the things that a creator says to a creation? How is this communicated?

You are assuming your reader is a spiritual like you, who's capable of understanding these abstracts as you do.

Check your statement up there, DID YOU EVER CONTESTEDTHAT WHAT I SAID IS NOT TRUE OR DID YOU DEMAND
"WHY IS IT TRUE," at all?



You never asked!

While it was implied, it's on me for not communicating this clearly.

The highlighted is wrong and Truly fallacious and I never made such a connection.

You didn't, I did. That's what I see when you say things like
"I have clearly premised and presented that "we are creations" and the only reasonable evidence that I could provide In proof of this fact and premise is to point out other known items that are also known to have been most certainly created, so that you can see by comparing if both are the same, Exactly as we have to compare if Honda Accord and Honda CrossTour are the same."
"I clearly said ""independence" of a slight degree and Accountability!" Is the ONLY DIFFERENCE!
Therefore 9/10 you are the same with your car."
"When you were displeased with your car, phone or stuff, you disposed of it in any way or manner you pleased even up to destruction and abandonment and you refused maintain and take care of them.."
You are stating that since both man and tools are creations as you believe, they are therefore the same.
(We haven't even established humans to have been created, but I proceeded with your premise)

My entire point was that the comparison doesn't hold water for me.
Would you accept if I described a screwdriver and a video game as being comparable, or the same because they are human creations?

For the person and tools comparison.
One are inanimate objects we created for own purposes and the other is a self aware being, with freewill (if it exists) and independent action.

Would a creator owe no responsibility to a conscious life it's created, To treat it the same as a tool?

He's wrong, for when you enter an office or bar and no one complains, it clearly means you are permitted to enter therein. That's why Law is the greatest Profession, For All these things are Covered by Law.

"In the Absence of An Objection, Truth is Seen and Established" exactly as you see in meetings and gatherings.

He was speaking in the context of research projects, as sometimes some students can have a work so outlandish, you wouldn't know how to begin asking them questions on it.

See, I hear a question of clarification here but you chose to carry on as if this was my True Meaning (Fraud) which I gave, whereas I gave no such meaning!

See, what I complained about? Running with what is not mine yet you have ascribed it to me! (Fraud)!

Meanwhile, you got my Truest Meaning but because you wiggle yourself out of the fix you are in, you are feigning misinterpretation and changed my meaning into some other meaning I did not give. (Fraud)

How can you join them when I have separated them already on this fact already? (Fraud)

Did I not clearly exclude this fact?

Cheating will not get you out of this box!

Did I miss something here? I apologise if I misrepresented something. (An opportunity to highlight what I got wrong and your true meaning, not just simply say fraud)

I said what you claimed as the only difference between a man and a tool (Independence and accountability), is sufficient to make your initial comparison dismissible.
As something with both Independent action and accountability, would no longer count as a tool. would it?

Anyway this goes back to my rejection of your comparison

As undertaking by other persons other than you. I love to run my own trials so that I know that which is True First Hand!

And The Law of Evidence is the Highest Authority on what constitutes Evidence in the whole world and there is No Second!

You should study The Law of Evidence!

Interesting, seems to be about what constitutes a fact or evidence in (legal) law.
I know zero about law stuff, so I'll read up on this later.

At the Bold! Wrong Again. Man has done that "Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, Shares, Ponzi Schemes, are all Voids which became real things that people saw to be real!

For crypto/bitcoin the tech is code that runs on hardware. It requires this hardware to keep running to function and exist, therefore it's not from a void. It's monetary value is abstract, it's what people believe it's value to be, similar things may apply to the rest.
Anyway I see your point, but these are abstracts constructs in the human mind, not physical things.

Ponzi schemes are just theft, taking money from other people, it doesn't create value.

Which is why we mock on and ridicule while they dissipate serious time and energy doing a foolish thing that has no end. Exactly as using a fork to empty the sea!

And funny enough you are not doing that foolish work oh, but you are ready to praise sing the fool who did that.

Anyway, it's your right but I also have a right to mock a foolish enterprise, when my attention is drawn to it!

Quite prideful for someone reaping the fruits of such enquiry.
Using a technology built on this process to mock the process that gave you that technology, and other modern conveniences.


Anyway continue as you wish.

I think we are actually done for you have not said anything new save for some Frauds and misrepresentations

So Aluta Continua for you, but thanks for being substantially reasonable and truthly as you possibly could!

Just a suggestion you can ignore if want, but you may want to tune down some of that ego of yours. Such as involving money and behaving as though my initial interaction with a different user, was somehow a challenge to you.

With that, Good day and Goodbye.

BeLookingIDIOT:

How is it proven?
Monkeys randomly hitting a keyboard would compose the works of Shakespeare given enough time...it's not something impossible.
Yes randomness can create "order." Simplicity can birth complexity.

Monkey hitting a keyboard is not a tearing apart matter, but putting matter together.

A keyboard is supposed to be keyed, which is exactly what the monkey is doing, therefore he is "creating" and not destroying to create.

Destruction does not and cannot create because destruction tears matter particles apart but creation puts matter particles TOGETHER!

IMAliyu:

This conversation has diverged from the original topic into the many sub topics, and now we're discussing fallacies.

Yes, that's why I tried to answer those side topics as briefly as possible but you pursued them!

Knowing that you are like that next time I will let you know know that I would not be departing from the issue at hand.

IMAliyu:

Clarification.
"An argument containing a fallacy doesn't always mean the premises is false."

See! You have still Admitted The Truth of what I told you with the Key Word "False" which is that WHICH IS NOT TRUE!

Whether premise, body or conclusion, once there is UNTRUTH/UNTRUE or FALSEHOOD, in any statement or allegation, it becomes fallacious.

The Rules of Fallacies are The Laws Prohibiting Lies and Untruths

IMAliyu:

Which I understood as, you stating "everything that exists was created by a creator, because it's self evident."
Which is a preconception I didn't hold, something that's not self evident to me.
That's why I asked does this logic apply to the creator (God) which many view as an exception to the rule, to which your reply was roughly "it's unknowable"

The Bolded! And this is where the twisting lies, you do not have to hold my opinions for it is your Natural Right to Accept or Reject my views and i knew that.

But remember, you demanded my own Truest opinion which is what I have supplied whilst reserving the right to reject it, even if it is founded, as you have so exercised.

It is your absolute right and I never interfered with it.

IMAliyu:

My entire point was that the comparison doesn't hold water for me.
Would you accept if I described a screwdriver and a video game as being comparable, or the same because they are human creations?

At the bolded! That is one of the great difference in being a Lawyer, I do not have an opinion until an Allegation is either Proven or found to be Unproven therefore, I would ask you to make the comparison for me to see if it is so comparable.

A Lawyer deals ONLY with Proven and Established Allegations which become Facts which I call Certainties! Not make-beliefs, conjectures and daydreams.

Which is why I am very angry and hatefull of Lawyers who say that they are Christians and are here on this forum yet they elect to stay silent on these matters which are begging for Proof of Facts and Evidence to be given!

IMAliyu:

Would a creator owe no responsibility to a conscious life it's created, To treat it the same as a tool?

Thanks for the fall here!

Do you not maintain and cater for your inanimate tools eg car whose food is oil and fuel is its drink, it poos and defecates like you and you clean it up!

You give it a bath with sponge and soap and rub Vaseline (car wax) on it!

You take it to the hospital (Workshop) when sick and you protect it from harm by avoiding okadas and danfos and parking it in its own house (garage).

Are all these functions and activities you have done over your car not responsibilities?

IMAliyu:

Interesting, seems to be about what constitutes a fact or evidence in (legal) law.
I know zero about law stuff, so I'll read up on this later.

Do read up you would see that everything in this world is both fact and Law, even the word "legal".

That's what makes Lawyers so great!

IMAliyu:

For crypto/bitcoin the tech is code that runs on hardware. It requires this hardware to keep running to function and exist, therefore it's not from a void. It's monetary value is abstract,

The Bolded: That's the Word!

Free Legal Advice!

When you hear and see the word "Abstract"! RUN!! IT ALWAYS MEANS VOID!

And it's voidity always comes out when you need it the most!

IMAliyu:

Quite prideful for someone reaping the fruits of such enquiry.
Using a technology built on this process to mock the process that gave you that technology, and other modern conveniences.

Their mistake they should not have given it to me among other things I wish to say but won't say but have you stopped to wonder why very good things are Burdensome to Acquire like good and decent food, reasonable housing, reasonable wages and decent work hours, all being very hard and expensive to acquire while useless piece of filths have good but cheap variants eg phones, watches, ?

Why is there no good cheap meal, or good cheap housing or even good cheap vehicles?

But don't worry about giving me your answer!

IMAliyu:

Just a suggestion you can ignore if want, but you may want to tune down some of that ego of yours. Such as involving money and behaving as though my initial interaction with a different user, was somehow a challenge to you.

With that, Good day and Goodbye.

Forgive my tone it is not ego nor arrogance or pride rather it is Genuine Passion born out of Absolute Confidence backed with my whole soul up to the point of being tested with death.

Hence, I am saying I am Absolutely Certain of what I am saying even on the pain of death!

Therefore the tone is that of my being Deathly Sure!

Dtruthspeaker:


Monkey hitting a keyboard is not a tearing apart matter, but putting matter together.

A keyboard is supposed to be keyed, which is exactly what the monkey is doing, therefore he is "creating" and not destroying to create.

Destruction does not and cannot create because destruction tears matter particles apart but creation puts matter particles TOGETHER!

What exactly are you meaning by "destruction"
Chaos is merely random activity.
That's what I was trying to demonstrate here. How randomness over time can create order.

BeLookingIDIOT:

What exactly are you meaning by "destruction"
Chaos is merely random activity.
That's what I was trying to demonstrate here. How randomness over time can create order.

An activity is Either Positive (Construction) or Negative (Destruction).

So Positive Chaos creates and negative chaos destroys.

And everytime there is a destruction, particles that make up matter (substance) is torn apart.

And tearing apart does not create and can never create for every creation requires the putting together of matter particles and not the tearing apart of them!

That is The Law!

Dtruthspeaker:


An activity is Either Positive (Construction) or Negative (Destruction).

So Positive Chaos creates and negative chaos destroys.

And everytime there is a destruction, particles that make up matter (substance) is torn apart.

And tearing apart does not create and can never create for every creation requires the putting together of matter particles and not the tearing apart of them!

That is The Law!

If you're referring to the big bang,then you should know it reached a stage of cooling and bringing of matter together.

BeLookingIDIOT:

If you're referring to the big bang,then you should know it reached a stage of cooling and bringing of matter together.

Then it is not the big bang that put matter together that is Another Process exactly as Evaporation is not Condensation!

They are different processes

Evaporation scatters matter Condensation causes matter to be put together.

And no I did not really have big bang in mind though I thought you did. However, I am following through using The Law that A Tearing can not and can never create.

It is only by putting together a creation is forned.

So AntiGod should find Another Lie that may slip past omniscient deficient us, to sell to their devouts.

Dtruthspeaker:


Then it is not the big bang that put matter together that is Another Process exactly as Evaporation is not Condensation!

They are different processes

Evaporation scatters matter Condensation causes matter to be put together.

And no I did not really have big bang in mind though I thought you did. However, I am following through using The Law that A Tearing can not and can never create.

It is only by putting together a creation is forned.

So AntiGod should find Another Lie that may slip past omniscient deficient us, to sell to their devouts.

You're confusing me
I just pointed out to you how the big bang was a creative force and achieved the putting together process.
What now are you saying

BeLookingIDIOT:

You're confusing me
I just pointed out to you how the big bang was a creative force and achieved the putting together process.
What now are you saying

I am not confusing you, it is you who is trying to hold on to disintegrating substance but can not believe that it is disintegrating even in your own hands!

Big Bang is an Explosion, so does an explosion pull matter together?

No it is impossible, All Explosions Scatter matter particles. That is the first fall!

So Who put back what was scattered is the next reasonable question for if I bomb your house it would be gone but if a house is built on the place which was bombed, then the reasonable question is Who Built this House here. And this is your second fall.

For a Bomb can not build this is an impossibility!

Dtruthspeaker:


I am not confusing you, it is you who is trying to hold on to disintegrating substance but can not believe that it is disintegrating even in your own hands!

Big Bang is an Explosion, so does an explosion pull matter together?

No it is impossible, All Explosions Scatter matter particles. That is the first fall!

So Who put back what was scattered is the next reasonable question for if I bomb your house it would be gone but if a house is built on the place which was bombed, then the reasonable question is Who Built this House here. And this is your second fall.

For a Bomb can not build this is an impossibility!

First of all,the big bang isn't even an explosion; it's an expansion of space itself.
"All Explosions Scatter matter particles"
Well,matter particles contain forces of attraction that can bring them together

BeLookingIDIOT:

First of all,the big bang isn't even an explosion; it's an expansion of space itself.

"Expansion" tears matter particles apart, it does not put them Together.

BeLookingIDIOT:

...Well,matter particles contain forces of attraction that can bring them together

We are not talking about THE CONTENTS of matter particles but "How" and "What" puts matter particles together after it has been Torn Apart!

Dtruthspeaker:


"Expansion" tears matter particles apart, it does not put them Together.



We are not talking about THE CONTENTS of matter particles but "How" and "What" puts matter particles together after it has been Torn Apart!

Do you want us to talk about Big Bang?

FatherOfJesus:
Do you want us to talk about Big Bang?

Your predecessor on this issue has already laid the foundation of Big Bang which is, he said "expansion of space itself." which I have challenged and he himself can see that he struggles to hold on to it, for it disintegrates even in his hand.

And Google says "At its simplest, it says the universe as we know it started with a small singularity, then inflated over the next 13.8 billion years" etc all of which I have eons of questions but the "He who say" is not here to answer them, so do if you may, take the stand and tell what Big Bang is to you that I may put forth reasonable questions and probes to ascertain if it is True!

Dtruthspeaker:


Your predecessor on this issue has already laid the foundation of Big Bang which is, he said "expansion of space itself." which I have challenged and he himself can see that he struggles to hold on to it, for it disintegrates even in his hand.

And Google says "At its simplest, it says the universe as we know it started with a small singularity, then inflated over the next 13.8 billion years" etc all of which I have eons of questions but the "He who say" is not here to answer them, so do if you may, take the stand and tell what Big Bang is to you that I may put forth reasonable questions and probes to ascertain if it is True!

what are your reasonable questions?