namfav:

aha, so you don't want the good things in the north? you rather toss it to white men

zstranger:

Nothing good enough for a Yoruba girl can ever come from the North.

namfav:

we have quality hijabs in the north

Kilode?!:

The Arabs are not ruling the world either.

And because Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Alhazen and co were able to preserve, use or even expand the theories of Ptolemy and Euclid does not mean the Arab world has that deep connection to the foundation of those philosophies.

I will concede that much of these are just wonderings of mine and of course many others who are interested in the question of why we lag behind. It is not hard science and several factors may be responsible apart from the ones I offered in my earlier post.

Read the excerpt below;

Quote
"In Islamic culture, 'philosophy' (in the sense of a continuation Greek philosophy) was somewhat suspect. It never gained a foothold in publically supported educational institutions, it was never well connected with any profession (in contrast with western Europe after the 12th century, where philosophy was the main subject in Arts faculties of the universities). The subject best established in medieval Islamic education was the study of the law (i.e. of the religious law). The extracts from Averroes in the Readings are from The Decisive Treatise Determining the Nature of the Connection between Religion and Philosophy, in which Averroes tries to show (with a readership of lawyers primarily in mind) that philosophy is a legitmate study for Muslims - indeed, that it is the highest form of religion. Like Alfarabi, and like Plato, Averroes envisages a state in which philosophers are the elite. The extracts are from the translation by G.F. Hourani in A. Hyman and J.J. Walsh, Philosophy in the Middle Ages (B721.P48), p. 287 ff)"

Now, I'm not sure how credible the authors are, but the conclusions there supports the assertion that; maybe a deeper cultural connection to the dominant Philosophy (at least the ones driving the knowledge of the age we live in) is necessary for a greater exploitation of the benefits of western science and a deeper appreciation for it's value beyond "paper certificate" bragging  rights. I believe that the closer your are to it culturally and emotionally, the better you will fare and the farther it will drive you


So in essence, despite the exploits of those great Arab Scholars, IMO, their larger society and culture did not really embrace the foundations of those thoughts and sometimes were very hostile towards it. Millions are still hostile.

IMO, Comparing western Europeans and the Greeks is like comparing Yorubas and Igbos or shall I say; Bantus and their different ethnic mix from South Africa to Guinea. The Culture and language might have some differences but they are still very much related.

See, I know gravity existed regardless of who "discovered" it, but it helps if it is explained in your own cultural context and language.

Yes, like sex, adding and subtracting are universal skills(hopefully, lol) but culture and beliefs can influence their usage.

And I will also argue that I would've have done better in Calculus if it was taught in Yoruba, that is if I'm not too right brained or suffering from Dyscalculia

Yes no one has the monopoly on creating ideas, but one can acquire the advantage to run competitive or different ideologies out of the marketplace of ideas.

Some of the real questions I'm struggling with are hidden somewhere in your statement.

What is stopping us?

How are our cultural beliefs affecting our philosophy and our ability to question and research deeply?

Are there Historical push-backs and prejudices against our philosophical views and ideas?

Does language play a role in our inability to make better use of the western ideas?

Ibn Abi Usaibi, Avicenna, Al Farabi and other ancient Arab scholars and philosophers translated Plato, Aristotle and other Greek thoughts and science into Arabic. I know Europeans had to re-translate the Arabic works and even the names! of these Arab Scholars and preservers of Greek philosophy into Latin based names just to feel more comfortable with them. Language is the vehicle of culture, it makes that "emotional" connection stronger.

Quote
The other point against your argument is, why were the Chinese, Japanese, the Ashkenazi Jews, and some other groups able to do so well in these areas, despite the fact that they did not originally have a cultural or emotional connection to the foundations of Western science and education?

Dunno, BUT;

The Chinese speak Chinese.

The Japanese speak Japanese.

The Ashkenazi Jews "own" the world. We worship their god(s) remember? Wink

The prevalent western focused world-view is chiefly a view through the moral and philosophical lenses of the Judeo-Christian or Abrahamic world, from literarure to philosophy to war conquests and politics. We can also argue same for the Hebrew and Greek philosophical background/foundations of much of present day western thought, it must count for something that they have that connection, I think it helps the Ashkenazi Jews a lot.

At least they got one over my smart grandfather and his Orisa Religion. He didn't see it coming 

Maybe we will get there, maybe we will fully assimilate, not sure, but I think we have a huge disadvantage due to culture, language and a different philosophical world-view from the currently dominant ones.

Yes, we need to try harder at adapting and assimilating. I guess we are still evolving.

The world is probably still very young bro, I bet there is still a lot to discover, we might have to wait around a few more millennias to know where the pendulum will swing, maybe we will zoom ahead eventually  Undecided

Our competitors ain't silly though. I don't bet on them slowing down to give us a chance to catch up and blend in.



And this is just to scare ekt-bear in-case he stumbles on my post ->: We might need to "re-invent the wheel" or at least soup it up to our taste

PhysicsMHD:

You may be right here as well. Indian philosophy involves concepts of infinity and nothingness. Greek philosophy only involved concepts of infinity (the philosopher Zeno, for example). In fact, one Greek philosopher-scientist famously stated "Nature abhors a vacuum". The emphasis on concepts of infinity by the Greek philosophers may have influenced their mathematicians (such as Archimedes, who had ideas that foreshadowed calculus) and may explain why Western mathematicians were able to beat other mathematicians in discovering calculus.

However, it was the Indians, not the Europeans or other groups, that were the ones to introduce the concept of zero as a legitimate number into mathematics. The Greeks never even conceived of the number zero, despite all their intellectual sophistication. I think this might support that cultural theory of yours applying even to mathematics.

On the other hand, Indian mathematicians came close to discovering calculus in almost the same way that European mathematicians did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_school_of_astronomy_and_mathematics#Infinite_Series_and_Calculus

which suggests that, despite the influence on culture of one's perspective/approach to a science , there are still universal elements/perspectives in that science, regardless of which culture one is operating in.

There are also numerous mathematicians or scientists of non-European origin (ethnically/racially) who have grown up in the Western world and made significant contributions to their fields while operating in a foreign culture.

The best example (though there are others) is Terence Tao:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao
http://www.college.ucla.edu/news/05/terencetaomath.html

Tao is an ethnically Chinese mathematician who is 100% culturally Australian (and therefore Western).

How would you account for that? The greatest recent Chinese mathematician is 100% removed from his culture and is completely a Westerner. This is the kind of phenomenon that supports SEFAGO's idea of certain cultures being beneficial to the exhibition of  (latent) intelligence.

If he (Tao) had been raised in the Middle East (some Chinese are Muslim, so I could imagine a few making a pilgrimage and then sticking around, lol) , we might never have heard of him. I don't think he had to be immersed in Chinese culture and think about mathematics in Chinese in order to make great contributions to his field. He just had to be around the right influences. Unfortunately, for that particular field (mathematics) most of the right influences have a European or Asian origin, so if you were an African . . . .


Once again, you may be right. If one is to produce uniquely creative ideas, it would almost certainly be harder to do it while starting from the foundation of another group's language or imitating another group's approach. If you have to follow the conventions of another group linguistically, you might even be limiting your thinking to their thinking alone. I see what  you're saying.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's true that scientific education needs to be made conformable to and complementary to, rather than contradictory to, African cultures and languages. But I still think we should be doing better than we are in most fields even while having to follow the conventions/thinking of others.

Yeah, we'll see how things turn out.

If 40 years from  now, things haven't changed and we're still several steps behind, it will all but prove your theory right and we (I) would need to take steps to change our education.

werepeLeri:

I bet she has never been to NairaLand - a congregation of losers.

A.D.M.:

Let me tell you something about. I'm an AA who assembles and repairs computers for a local business. That's what I do for a living. You still want to play this silly game of hating people and falling into stereotypes? I congratulate the girl. That's what this thread is about, right? But no, you had to turn in into an anti-Carribean and anti-AA hatefest. Congratulations for your ignorance and stupidity.

THAT'S RIGHT BRO! 

LMAO@ Somebody's lame attempt to offend me by dissing AAs and West Indians LOL.
Both groups have pupils who are attending or are alumni of Harvard and other IVY league schools.
I have a cousin who is a graduate of Harvard with DR. as a prefix and I am proud to share his last name! His only flaw is being stuck up as hell lol. There was a 17 year old Jamo in 2009 who was accepted into Harvard straight from the island. I can name plenty more. . .

HOWEVER,

This is the young and impressive Nigerian-American lady's moment to shine! Unlike Saheela, who put her 'shoulders to the wheel' and achieved without prejudice' some people like to talk ignorance and have absolutely nothing to offer humanity or themselves for that matter. Nothing to show but want to log on the internet and pick on people both dead and living with no shame, BUT i say laugh at them, dust your shoulders off and do you. Hard work and dedication is color, class, and race blind.

BKBabe, neither. My first name is as Jewish-Irish as it gets. No 'hood-rat' names in my family hun. Nice try tho. 

Tweety121:

Aww, I saw her name and got excited thinking she was Hausa. That would have been a rare treat.

Anyway congratulations to her, she seems like a sweet, humble girl. And with qualifications from Harvard her future success is almost inevitable. I hope her three brothers are equally successful

There was a 17 year old Jamo in 2009 who was accepted into Harvard straight from the island. I can name plenty more. . .

SEFAGO:

^ Also no Hausa has ever entered Harvard in the history of the school . Why break the status quo? There is like one at MIT though.

I think you should be more concerned about the number of universities in Jamaica. Its one thing to be jumping up about oyibo universities. I would love it when Oyibo people can post on whatever site they visit- Hey James Got into University of lagos , and get similar responses though

SEFAGO:

^ Also no Hausa has ever entered Harvard in the history of the school . Why break the status quo? There is like one at MIT though.

I think you should be more concerned about the number of universities in Jamaica. Its one thing to be jumping up about oyibo universities. I would love it when Oyibo people can post on whatever site they visit- Hey James Got into University of lagos , and get similar responses though

SEFAGO:

^ Also no Hausa has ever entered Harvard in the history of the school . Why break the status quo? There is like one at MIT though.

namfav:

who in your family is at harvard? or are you generating pride from other peoples children?

zstranger:

There was one at OAU when I was in secondary school.

SEFAGO:

^ Also no Hausa has ever entered Harvard in the history of the school . Why break the status quo? There is like one at MIT though.

I think you should be more concerned about the number of universities in Jamaica. Its one thing to be jumping up about oyibo universities. I would love it when Oyibo people can post on whatever site they visit- Hey James Got into University of lagos , and get similar responses though

skypopson:

she never called herself a nigerian,her folks are.whats the stress coz she gats american certificate.why obama no come kenya come develop?america will always be number one in their hearts

skypopson:

she never called herself a nigerian,her folks are.whats the stress coz she gats american certificate.why obama no come kenya come develop?america will always be number one in their hearts

Good point. Well as I said bro, that may be her case but I highly doubt it. It's just (white) American media and culture as a whole likes to grab the 'best' until they get into trouble. You will hear about how 'Nigerian' she is when she does something wishy washy white Americans see as 'dishonorable'.