you dont need formal education to practice science. to reach a scientific conclusion, you must have an hypothesis, conduct an experiment, confirm the results and reach a conclusion. imagine a village with malaria problems, the herbalist thinks to himself that some of the roots and leaves in the forest must be able to cure the disease that is the hypothesis. he starts trying out different plants. that is the experiment. he observes that those he gave Dogoyaro leaves got better faster than other. he reaches a conclusion. while doing all this, he was making scarifies to his gods. In the end he got a scientific solution but carried the unnecessary burden of spiritualism.
I'm talking heavy analytic chemistry like purifying gold and gunpowder, you talking malaria .
Young man, let me end the discussion. The distinction between science and the so called black magic is its methodologies.
While that of black magic is unconventional, vast and unorganized, science is simple and straight forward.
The problem is, you try to measure the other concept with scientific methodology. This is like to use a basket to pack water. To pack water, you use something that can hold water. Science is based on empirical study. The study and observations of the physical world. Don't you think it is foolishness to try to use a physical metric for the spiritual?
That is why I told you, instead of sitting in your parlour, typing nonsense about juju, walk into a shrine and ask the babalawo to show you his methodologies.
Witch doctors have been practicing necromancy, chemistry, medicine, pharmacy before the birth of organized science. Witch doctors knew which herbs cured diseases, they knew alcohol, laughing gas, they purified gold themselves.
How did they do that centuries before the birth of chemistry?
How did uneducated witchdoctors experiment and discover, alcohol, gunpowder before the birth of chemistry?
Alchemy is the father of chemistry. Who were the people practicing alchemy then, if not witch doctors?
Juju gave birth to birth.
Science na part of juju wey them don study, organize, come put for book make una read
What is the name of the witch doctor that discovered alcohol and gunpowder?
but what if it is true that sunday igboho disappeared? well if the man had the ability to disappear and cannot put that power to good use like teleporting himself into dss offices just to scare them and make them respect him (this tactic is called Show-of Force) so they know he has the capability to eliminate them anytime he chooses, then it shows he is a stupid fellow, except of course he cannot teleport which actual is the case.
I'm talking heavy analytic chemistry like purifying gold and gunpowder, you talking malaria .
Young man, let me end the discussion. The distinction between science and the so called black magic is its methodologies.
While that of black magic is unconventional, vast and unorganized, science is simple and straight forward.
The problem is, you try to measure the other concept with scientific methodology. This is like to use a basket to pack water. To pack water, you use something that can hold water. Science is based on empirical study. The study and observations of the physical world. Don't you think it is foolishness to try to use a physical metric for the spiritual?
That is why I told you, instead of sitting in your parlour, typing nonsense about juju, walk into a shrine and ask the babalawo to show you his methodologies.
The distinction is methodology.
old man, you have ended nothing. purifying gold is not a more important science than curing malaria. you are vain and unreasonable
If you do not know that alchemy birthed chemistry, then you should have at least used Google to verify before embarrassing yourself. (The worst form of ignorance is blatantly rejecting a claim instead of verifying).
How can you say when a herbalist ask you to drink a concoction, that it is science? Do you see herbalists go through the empirical phase of scientific study before theorizing that his concoction works?
Do babalawos or herbalists use the scientific methodology?
What scientific apparatus do they use for the scientific observations?
Are you sure you know what science is?
you are the one embarrassing yourself and displaying your ignorance. get some education and stop making it seem you are knowledgeable cos you read something about alchemy.
you ask what apparatus do babalawos use for their science? what display of ignorance! you think you need lab equipment to carryout experiments before they are deemed scientific? you thinks science must me something associated with the laboratory or a formal education.
the uneducated village man that has never read a book in his life but has learned to breed only health goats with healthy goats to have a healthy stock is practicing science.
the men that lived thousands of years before we could every write anything had to practice science in several forms to survive and improve their living conditions. all that they learned and practice is what has contributed to our level of advancement today. just observing at a round wheel is better that a cube while is application of physics even if hey did not call it science, or even understand what they were doing, it is still science.
HardMirror: Some years back I created a thread to discuss the possibilities for countries like Nigeria that has a majority population that still believe the spiritual controls the physical, hence our pandering to Juju and religion.
Back in the days when i was very active in the christian circle, I believed very much in the potency of the spiritual, in fact i thought it to be the most powerful dimension of reality and worthy of all my attention and dedication. this remains the reality of many people despite their education most especially in 3rd world societies, not to say this is not the reality of 1st world societies too. We would find people who would rather fantasize than come to terms with our brick and mortal reality.
[b]For those of use who have lived in Osun and Oyo state before, we have heard incredible stories of the Ife and Modakeke war which was fought using "juju", the stories are very incredible infact these stories must be the reason our security forces fear Igboho so much until they began to realize he is not as powerful as he claims. we heard stories of people disappearing at will, using eggs as bombs, people who could face a whole squadron firing at them and laughing as if they where just being tickled with feathers, we heard stories of guns spurting water instead of bullets when soldiers came face to face with these men. but do you know why these stories seemed credible, there where no mobile phones back then to take pictures and videos. so where are all these powers now? Ife Modakeke war is barely 20 years ago, how come we cannot fine those eggs that were able to blow up a whole building anymore, how come the guns of our soldiers are not spurting water hen they fire at igboho's men anymore?[/b]
DOES JUJU WORK? You can already guess my position on this topic, but i would rather go back to my days of believing in the spiritual and agree with you folks that juju works and from this perspective we can look into this and draw our conclusions.
WHAT DOES AFRICAN TRADITIONAL RELIGION HAVE TO OFFER?[/B] well a lot! to mention a few, i would focus on what ATR has to offer that could have been of advantage to believers like Igboho and Ikonso.
1. [b]Iko. Iko in the Yoruba ATR enables the wearer to know the thoughts of people around him, you are able to tell if people around you are betrayers.
2. Kanako. with Kanako, you can cover 100km in just 2mins walking on foot.
3. Odeshi/Okugbe. Now this is the most popular one. This charm comes in different forms.
the Traditional Bulletpoof vest was brought back to popularity by Sunday Igboho and Ikonso
Does it Work?
yes it works!
sure you are surprised i say it works, but i am an honest person and only if approach issues with honesty would we find the truth we seek
just like the Kevlar and ceramic composite bullet-proof vests used by law enforcement in developed countries, this vest works by the same principle. it can stop a limited range of fire power. all things bullet proof has their limits even an amoured tank can be destroyed by certain types of ammunition such as a Rail-gun Tungsten Ammunition.
If you get this vest, the baba would test the vest with a local pistol which is a very low velocity weapon and would be unable to penetrate this vest. you go home believing you are protected.
this vests are made of leather and infused with iron nugget. the leather works just the way Kevlar works, it stretches to distribute the impact while the iron nuggets take the bullets shear force using it's high tensile strength.
this is where the science ends,
because after this stage, the other solutions provided by baba are just based on gimmicks no different from that of a magician.
below is a video of a Tanzanian soldier that fired an AK47 riffle right into his mouth and spat the bullet out... or did he?
please watch the video first then i tell you how he did it.
so you can see this soldier fired a real riffle into his mouth and the cartridge is real. so how is it that he was not hurt. it was all trick and a very obvious one for anyone who know how guns and bullets work.
he only fired a blank, the cartridge he used had no bullet in it. how do i know? cos of the puff and lack of recoil when he fired the gun. if the gun had a bullet in it,the gun would have recoiled because of newtons law of motion. when you fire a gun, the force of the bullet moving forward pushes the gun backwards. this force alone is capable of removing his teeth even if the bullet did not harm him. also the force of the bullet hitting his mouth would push his head back even if the bullet did not penetrate his mouth.
Note that at the 3rd attempt he actually got hurt, but this is not due to the bullet but the hot high velocity gas discharge from the gun hitting his cheek. yes even blanks can hurt even though they are very unlikely to kill you so why is it that only the pistol hurt him? simple, the riffles did not hurt him because the long barrel give the gas discharge from the blanks enough space and time to slow down before getting to his mouth while the pistol has a shorter barrel meaning the gas does not have enough time to slow down and cool off before getting into contact with his mouth.
hence it was all a gimmick.
4. Ofe. So when the Military invaded sunday Igboho's house, they could not find him. did he use Ofe? Ofe is a charm that enable the use to disappear at will or when in danger. If sunday Igboho was really in that house which i presume to be the case, then it looks likely that he actually disappeared when the military men invaded his home.
a more plausible explanation though is they just could not find him. here are factors you must consider.
1. the house is very big with many many rooms and places to hide. 2. he had enough time to execute his escape protocol before they breached his house. the military men where in a hurry and had to give up after searching for a while.
i believe there where "False Walls" in sunday igboho's house where he hide until the military left. the next day, you could see the volume of activities in his house which enabled him escape. the area was not concealed and this shows how incompetent our DSS are unfortunately. instead they took cats from his house thinking he turned into a cat. this is exactly why i preach that it is stupidity to believe in all these spiritual nonsense because they would only make you live in delusion. if the team where unbelievers just like me, they would have sealed the house off and smoked him out of his hiding place using scientific methods not capturing cats.
but what if it is true that sunday igboho disappeared? well if the man had the ability to disappear and cannot put that power to good use like teleporting himself into dss offices just to scare them and make them respect him (this tactic is called Show-of Force) so they know he has the capability to eliminate them anytime he chooses, then it shows he is a stupid fellow, except of course he cannot teleport which actual is the case.
CONCLUSION IF SUNDAY IGBOHO OR IKONSO HAD JUST THIS 4 POWERS AVAILABLE TO THEM, THE RESULT AND NEWS WE WOULD BE READING TODAY WOULD BE MUCH MORE DIFFERENT.
I HOPE WE NIGERIANS CAN MOVE BEYOND BELIEVING THESE GIMMICKS
Not sure of my position of this things. On the one side we live in a society that believes and imposed this belief on us. Hence we end up seeing it as a reality though having never experienced it. On the other hand, if these really are real, I dont believe Nigeria would be as backward as it is as these would make us way ahead of other nations in the world.
There are reasons why juju do fails sometimes but you still need deeper understanding to grasp that. If you wish to know i'll explain just be aware that there is no juju that doesn't have an atom of potency no matter how fake it is, the secret is that juju pass juju!
HardMirror: you are the one embarrassing yourself and displaying your ignorance. get some education and stop making it seem you are knowledgeable cos you read something about alchemy.
you ask what apparatus do babalawos use for their science? what display of ignorance! you think you need lab equipment to carryout experiments before they are deemed scientific? you thinks science must me something associated with the laboratory or a formal education.
the uneducated village man that has never read a book in his life but has learned to breed only health goats with healthy goats to have a healthy stock is practicing science.
the men that lived thousands of years before we could every write anything had to practice science in several forms to survive and improve their living conditions. all that they learned and practice is what has contributed to our level of advancement today. just observing at a round wheel is better that a cube while is application of physics even if hey did not call it science, or even understand what they were doing, it is still science.
[/s]
When we have no defense, you resort to insults.
First, I must say you are ignorant of science and its workings. I don't blame you because I understand the poor state of the Nigerian educational system. You see a native doctor doing something, maybe spraying a love portion, he tells you the gods revealed the poison to him in the dream, how is that science? At what point did he hypothesize and experiment before concluding on its efficiency? This is what you don't know. Different systems, different methodologies for accessing truths.
Just as the methodology of science is experiment, observation, hypothesis etc, Divinity and spirituality has its own methodologies, which are revelations, meditations, prophecies etc.
In the ancient times, witch doctors knew varieties of poison, before you claim they were doing science, you have to tell us the stages and scientific processes the witch doctors carried out in testing and experimenting before discovering these poisons. You can't just tell us that they were doing science, without telling us the scientific processes involved in discovering them. If you do that, then you do not know why there is science and pseudoscience.
If you know what science is, you would walk into the shrine of a babalawo and experiment on his charms instead sitting in your hut typing nonsense on social media.
Go to the shrine and do some scientific experiment. That's what a real scientist would do.
First, I must say you are ignorant of science and its workings. I don't blame you because I understand the poor state of the Nigerian educational system. You see a native doctor doing something, maybe spraying a love portion, he tells you the gods revealed the poison to him in the dream, how is that science? At what point did he hypothesize and experiment before concluding on its efficiency? This is what you don't know. Different systems, different methodologies for accessing truths.
Just as the methodology of science is experiment, observation, hypothesis etc, Divinity and spirituality has its own methodologies, which are revelations, meditations, prophecies etc.
In the ancient times, witch doctors knew varieties of poison, before you claim they were doing science, you have to tell us the stages and scientific processes the witch doctors carried out in testing and experimenting before discovering these poisons. You can't just tell us that they were doing science, without telling us the scientific processes involved in discovering them. If you do that, then you do not know why there is science and pseudoscience.
lol. you just dumb and ignorant. so comic to see that you dont know it.
HardMirror: lol. you just dumb and ignorant. so comic to see that you dont know it.
You are no different from the market women and garage touts who have nothing but insults in their heads.
Go and grab a book and learn the rules of engagement and discourse. Insulting me doesn't validate your claims about juju. Go to the native doctors shrine and perform your experiments instead of seeking opinion to justify your ignorance.
You are no different from the market women and garage touts who have nothing but insults in their heads.
Go and grab a book and learn the rules of engagement and discourse. Insulting me doesn't validate your claims about juju. Go to the native doctors shrine and perform your experiments instead of seeking opinion to justify your ignorance.
HardMirror: unfortunately Africans are just going to school and are not getting educated, hence why we still have people who fail to sit, think, analyse what they believe and reevaluate their beliefs
MrColdsweat: Instead of sitting in your self-contain, why not walk into a shrine and test the efficiency of juju by yourself?
People like you make me laugh. Someone just gave an intelligent and detailed write up with different scenarios which would make anyone think twice, and you're here talking about "walking into a shrine". If he walks into a shrine, what will happen? There are magicians who perform magic tricks that'd make you think they have super powers, and yet your so called jazz can't do half of what those magicians can do. Someone will perform magic tricks and you people will believe he has powers and you'll begin to fear him. Can someone with jazz stand in front of a live machine gun or withstand a grenade in thier hand? Meanwhile, Igboho is still in custody, unable to disappear to his home in Germany. Think!
People like you make me laugh. Someone just gave an intelligent and detailed write up with different scenarios which would make anyone think twice, and you're here talking about "walking into a shrine". If he walks into a shrine, what will happen? There are magicians who perform magic tricks that'd make you think they have super powers, and yet your so called jazz can't do what those magicians can do. Someone will perform magic tricks and you people will believe he has powers and you'll begin to fear him. Meanwhile, Igboho is still in custody, unable to disappear to his home in Germany. Think!
I never made claims on the efficacy of juju. I claimed that it is irrational for a scientist or science enthusiast to make conclusions without experimenting.
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