4llerbuntu:

how come duduspace always makes it sound like if arsenal just about spend 1 pound heaven will fall? na wetin?

i honestly doubt if u will make a good entrepreneur, well cos risk taking seems to be absent from your lexicon.

Are we talking about 1 pound now?  
did any of our direct competitors spend just 1 pound. It goes beyond just one signing there is a wage bill to think of as well as improving the contracts of the players you already have.

Debo and I have always thrown a simple challenge, show 1 club in the PL that has done better than Arsenal in the past 6 trophyless years without massively outspending Arsenal. All you get are cheeky responses like Birmingham and Tottenham.

Why is my post gone?

4llerbuntu:

and since the current trend is that all these over paid scallywags will jump ship immediately it seems they can be useful, isnt it time to start carefully reconsidering this useless policy and start mixing it up with solid buys of experienced nature? fergie clearly does this.

and he does not ship out players simply because they turn thirty,the useful ones that is

Mixing it up with the experience you ask for requires increased Wages, Manure's wages per annum have been consistently in the range of 20m higher (most likely higher now and that is currently about the size of our interest payment per annum) than Arsenals along with their transfer expenditure which is also higher, City and chelsea's in the region of 40m to 60m higher. If we have been paying those kinds of wages for the past 6 years, I think our debt would have increased and not reduced.

Ibime:

70/80k for Mikel/Ramires is not peanuts, neither is 90k for Alex. There needs to be better price discrimination between quality of players. There is a reason why Chelseas wage bill is the highest and that's due to paying over the odds for mere squad players like Bosingwa who earns 80k and has done nothing to justify even half of that. To put this in context, Ryan Shawcross is Stokes highest paid player on 28k per week.

In addition, the reason Arsenal find it hard to shift their squad players is due to their high wages. Wenger pays a premium for potential. This is the reason why no serious offers have been made for Denilson and Bendtner in a situation where the likes of Denilson, Diaby and Bendtner earn 60k to 70k per week.

I am sorry if that came across as though I was referring to the players listed/ I was referring to the new players Lukaku, De Bryune and Romeu.

That said, it is not effective argument to try to create some sort of comparison between Shawcross at Stoke and Alex at 90k. My illustration was to highlight how Arsenal can pay wages in the 60 to 80k bracket and still get top quality.
You cannot argue that you will prefer Shawcross in place of Alex despite the gulf in wage earning.

Apart from the waste era we enjoyed under Roman, there is also the intrinsic value that players like Alex, Ivanovic, Terry offer you that you won't get in Shawcross. That's "partly" why they earn what they do.

And that's why these players play for their National teams and Shawcross doesn't despite Shawcross being Stoke's near best performer. Scott Parker puts a decent shift in every single minute for WestHam but he doesn't and cannot produce quality to command an 80k wage at a big club.

nateevs:

That said, it is not effective argument to try to create some sort of comparison between Shawcross at Stoke and Alex at 90k. My illustration was to highlight how Arsenal can pay wages in the 60 to 80k bracket and still get top quality.
You cannot argue that you will prefer Shawcross in place of Alex despite the gulf in wage earning.

You don't have much to do, just point out 1 such club in the PL paying such wages and competing in the top 4 yearly like Arsenal do. worthy and reasonable challenge and not so difficult? 

@ 4uller

That is exactly what I am calling for - stop stockpiling youth players like they are going out of fashion and paying them too large wages. There just has to be a higher level of differentiation in wages than we have at the moment - if this makes some players leave, so be it, at least we'll be able to keep our best performers who will in turn attract top talent to the club.

Yes we must still speculate to an extent, and I don't mind spending £1m on Joel Campbell for the potential of coming good, but not in ridiculous numbers and not on too large wages.

You can sign long contracts without ridiculous salaries - just make it more performance based with promises of wage increases if and when performances get better, not paid big wages hoping performances will get better.

As for the 30 year olds, apart from Pires, I don't think any of the 30 year olds that have been shipped out are players I would be desperate to hold on to.

If the rumoured rift in terms of raising the wages for our best players is true, the board is currently hindering us from competing in that aspect.

It only makes sense that big transfer wages are accompanied by big wages - to agree with one but not agree with the other is foolishness.

@ Nateevs,

Sorry, I'm not doubting Alex class. Alex is worth 80k on a good day, but wages are also a function of injury record, and based on that Alex shouldn't be copping more than 50-60k per week.

Anyway, ma point is that the big clubs do not discriminate enough between quality. This is perhaps due to not wanting to create an unequal playing field. On a regular day, there is no reason for Ramires and Mikel to be earning more than twice Odemwingie and Tiote.

See all this ones arguing about mundane issues Gunners there are bigger issues in front of us e.g.

HOWARD WEBB IS OFFICIATING AGAINST MaNYOU!!!

duduspace:

You don't have much to do, just point out 1 such club in the PL paying such wages and competing in the top 4 yearly like Arsenal do. worthy and reasonable challenge and not so difficult? 

I will give you 7 players in Chelsea.

Ivanovic
Bosingwa
Alex
Luiz
Mikel
Ramires
Sturridge
Kalou
Mata
Lukaku
And you know that Chelsea will finish in top four year on year. Oh did I give you more than 7?



I am not saying there won't be the high earners in the team. What I mean is for every Alex you have in your team who don't and cannot play every week, there will be a Lampard, Drogba, who put in a shift and literally carry the team on their shoulders. However, they cannot do it a lone. They need the others around.

Arsenal will not relegate to the championship if you have one Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ashley and the rest being on moderate wages.


My point is, it is possible to get players who will give you better results than Diaby, Denilson, Squilacci and co and still have them inside the 60-90k bracket.

Cross over to United and you will find the same. Are you trying to make me believe that Oshea and Brown, (while at OT) Rafael, Fabio, Evans, Smalling, Anderson, Nani, Valencia, Hernandez, are all outside the 60 to 90k bracket? No! Yet these guys win the PL.

That's an evidence that you are doing something wrong?

What can Wenger do properly these days?So he's [b]s[/b]crewed up ordinary touch-line ban?

I just pray Wilshere is fit for the game against Udinese or Nasri is played.All this we will lose 25 million gbp talk is tosh as losing out on a UCL spot has far more implicating consequences.

And that's why these players play for their National teams and Shawcross doesn't despite Shawcross being Stoke's near best performer. Scott Parker puts a decent shift in every single minute for WestHam but he doesn't and cannot produce quality to command an 80k wage at a big club.

Parker has been very consistent for 2-3 seasons now, he was arguably the best player in the league last year(top 3 at least) and even starts games for the national team nowadays. He'll EASILY command 80k at  a top club.

My illustration was to highlight how Arsenal can pay wages in the 60 to 80k bracket and still get top quality.

Ivanovic
Bosingwa
Alex
Luiz
Mikel
Ramires
Sturridge
Kalou
Mata
Lukaku

Na these ones be "top quality"? I dey

At Arsenal there's also the likes of Vermaelen, Wilshere, Sagna, Song, Gervinho etc in that wage bracket that are every bit as good as, if not better than the players you have listed, you haven't illustrated anything!

Also, it's one thing to pay top wages for the players that "carry the team on their shoulders", it's another thing to cough up 30M+ for the transfer. Almunia will not suddenly morph into Buffon if you start paying him 200K p/w!

did i hear someone say howard webb?

oh lawd, this is a conspiracy

ritchboy:

Parker has been very consistent for 2-3 seasons now, he was arguably the best player in the league last year(top 3 at least) and even starts games for the national team nowadays. He'll EASILY command 80k at  a top club.

Na these ones be "top quality"? I dey

At Arsenal there's also the likes of Vermaelen, Wilshere, Sagna, Song, Gervinho etc in that wage bracket that are every bit as good as, if not better than the players you have listed, you haven't illustrated anything!

Also, it's one thing to pay top wages for the players that "carry the team on their shoulders", it's another thing to cough up 30M+ for the transfer. Almunia will not suddenly morph into Buffon if you start paying him 200K p/w!

That's a very unfair thing to do. I like when you have a discussion rather than your unending need to slander.

I posted the opinion about "top quality" in a completely separate post. Dudu asks me to tell a team that pays such wages and still manages to finish in the top four every year and I listed players. I did not liken these players to any sort of quality at any time. There is no need for you to argue that way.

You can also quote my second post and say Fabio, Oshea, Carrick, Brown, Fabio, Anderson, Park, Valencia, and then say "na this be quality?" . . . . They won the PL.

nateevs:

That's a very unfair thing to do. I like when you have a discussion rather than your unending need to slander.

I posted the opinion about "top quality" in a completely separate post. Dudu asks me to tell a team that pays such wages and still manages to finish in the top four every year and I listed players. I did not liken these players to any sort of quality at any time. There is no need for you to argue that way.

You can also quote my second post and say Fabio, Oshea, Carrick, Brown, Fabio, Anderson, Park, Valencia, and then say "na this be quality?" . . . . They won the PL.  

So i take it when you said "My illustration was to highlight how Arsenal can pay wages in the 60 to 80k bracket and still get top quality", the "and still get top quality" part meant the top quality players are in a different bracket as opposed to getting top quality for 60-80k? You see the English language can be a bit rubbish!

You can forgive me for thinking the former considering the fact Dudu clearly meant clubs who pay about 80K max, in which case you haven't really proved anything considering the fact no club will pay all their players over 80K p/w, i.e ALL top clubs will have players in the 60-80K bracket.

Now I finally know where my opinion diverges from Debosky's, I've always wondered why we argue atimes.

Your point of view is that we need to get more in line with what others are doing? how far in line is subject to a good understanding of what we actually have available to spend  which we unfortunately do not have full information about so you blame Arsene and the board (club leadership) for either not being transparent enough or not adequately utilizing the resources available unlike most other fans who basically just blame the manager without any critical examination of the prevailing issues whatsoever.

Where I diverge from this opinion is my assumption (sensible or otherwise in your opinion) that the club has already looked and is actively looking into this but have given up competing on that front because it just isn't currently sustainable (IMO) in the current player market therefore, therefore are either just holding on to see what FFP brings along in realising the youth project or allowing revenue flows as influenced by supporter sentiments to determine how and when to make any changes particularly in response to supporter apathy which may affect those revenue flows or whenever a top 4 finish which will reduce income is threatened.

Seriously Debo, does that accturately reflect where our opinions diverge or is there something else I've missed?

We will definitely both agree that a guaranteed top 4 finish has only come under threat due to the massive injection of funding into City further changing the competitive landscape along with the resurgence of Liverpool with considerable funding available after the successful mugging of Gillete and Hicks.  

My opinion is largely formed on the foundation of the present board not taking dividend from the club, if that was happening or starts happening, my opinion would be very different. I personally believe large debt or benefactor handouts are either unfair or unsustainable but it is not unfair for investors in a club to expect their investment to appreciate within reasonable limits.

It is also my opinion that the ownership as it exists right now would fire Arsene if it becomes necessary i.e, if they really believe the've found someone better or in a situation where the media stokes the fanbase enough to make Arsenal unmanageable for him and he cracks but I fail to see how that helps Arsenal in the long term. Worst possible scenario is we end up with a manager worse than Arsene who can't even make top 4 with similar funding and will keep moaning about lack of funds.

^^

ritchboy:


You can forgive me for thinking the former considering the fact Dudu clearly meant clubs who pay about 80K max, in which case you haven't really proved anything considering the fact no club will pay all their players over 80K p/w, i.e ALL top clubs will have players in the 60-80K bracket.

Succinctly put - the difference is not those players named, as Arsenal can confidently say they possess similar or arguably higher calibre of players in that same price-range.

The difference is in the highest earners - the Lampards, Drogbas, Cechs and Terrys, the ones who actually 'carry the side' - they are clearly not on 80k, neither are the likes of Rio and Rooney at Utd or Yaya, Tevez and Silva at Citeh.

Can Arsenal feasibly pay wages in that bracket? Not without significant cutting down of lower paid players and a drastic recalibration of the overall wage structure. Ultimately, it will lead to a bigger wage bill in the range of Chelski/United. I am not confident the club can afford that without winning trophies, knowing full well that the expenditure will improve chances of winning but not provide any guarantees.

debosky:

Can Arsenal feasibly pay wages in that bracket? Not without significant cutting down of lower paid players and a drastic recalibration of the overall wage structure. Ultimately, it will lead to a bigger wage bill in the range of Chelski/United. I am not confident the club can afford that without winning trophies, knowing full well that the expenditure will improve chances of winning but not provide any guarantees.

GBAM, true word.
or worse still, try it once and get drawn into the rat race without any benefactors to write off debts.

Dudu/Debo,

dayokanu:

Who can explain paying 12m Pounds for Oxlade Chamberlan from a division 2 side yet complain that players are too expensive.

Just last season Mesut Ozil was sold for 15m

12m right price for CHamberlain, 15m too expnsive for World cup star mesut Ozil

^^ Ozil had a year on his contract, not that anyone besides Wenger believes Chamberlain is worth 12M.

debosky:

^^

Succinctly put - the difference is not those players named, as Arsenal can confidently say they possess similar or arguably higher calibre of players in that same price-range.

The difference is in the highest earners - the Lampards, Drogbas, Cechs and Terrys, the ones who actually 'carry the side' - they are clearly not on 80k, neither are the likes of Rio and Rooney at Utd or Yaya, Tevez and Silva at Citeh.

Can Arsenal feasibly pay wages in that bracket? Not without significant cutting down of lower paid players and a drastic recalibration of the overall wage structure. Ultimately, it will lead to a bigger wage bill in the range of Chelski/United. I am not confident the club can afford that without winning trophies, knowing full well that the expenditure will improve chances of winning but not provide any guarantees.

The truth is Arsenal now face being "forced" to pay higher wages thanks to City and co.

A month ago i wouldn't have offered a player like Nasri over 100k, now i'm not convinced offering him circa 120K is a bad idea(not that he'll surely accept it considering the fact City are reportedly offering 185K).

RVP has 2 years left on his contract and another summer debacle is already shaping up, especially if he has a great season, which i'm believing he will.

Offer him(and maybe Nasri?) top dollar now IMO.

HOWARD WEBBBBB? e for better say them give Man utd the 3 points before the match. kaiiiii

slimshay:

See all this ones arguing about mundane issues Gunners there are bigger issues in front of us e.g.

HOWARD WEBB IS OFFICIATING AGAINST MaNYOU!!!

will not be good to try and rescue your sinking ship b4 spewing r-bish

same old

see Ferguson teaching Wenger the art of easing in young blood into a premiership team.

edoyad:

same old

Yaya Kasua

yeah Web has scored for united again. .

@presido, you escape your caregiver? Guy take dressing.

dayokanu:

Yaya Kasua

shege! Kasuwa is still in the very early stages, season finishes in May.

edoyad:

shege! Kasuwa is still in the very early stages, season finishes in May.

Ive been hearing this for 6 years now,

e go better

if spuds lose, the teasing from their end go lessen

proudly9ja:

Ive been hearing this for 6 years now,

e go better

in that case, make u nor tire to hear am. Because you'll hear it after the game at old Trafford, no matter the outcome.

edoyad:

in that case, make u nor tire to hear am. Because you'll hear it after the game at old Trafford, no matter the outcome.

Tire to hear am ke? na person wey get hope of Arsenal winning the league go dey bothered whether season ends in August or May

The one Im tired of hearing are the finance epistles according to debosky and duduspace.

By next weekend.

You should be out of CL and League effectively

So your chances of trophies would lie in the FA cup and Carling Cup. And August never finish ooo