naijababe:

Was wondering when you'd show up. All that positivity from dudu and debosky was doing ma head in   .

In comes 4uller with your dose of depression inducing negativity.

debosky:

In comes 4uller with your dose of depression inducing negativity.

Don't get it twisted bruv, negativity especially when AW is concerned is a good thing

naijababe:

Don't get it twisted bruv, negativity especially when AW is concerned is a good thing

Is it? I don't think you need to be negative, only realistic. . . .saying you sign 10 year olds when that doesn't actually happen is just being bitter.

It leads to hugging of wet transformers and jumping into rivers.

debosky:

It's a balancing act - you can't make wholesale defensive changes, else you end up with what we had this season. It is my firm belief that if we didn't have a completely new CB pairing of JD/LK, SS/LK or JD/SS for most of the season, we'd have had a better defensive outcome. If we decide to get rid of two CBs, we'll be in the same position.

In my view, we need to get rid of Squillaci, bring in someone like Samba and we'll be done at CB. For the LB position, sadly Clichy is still better than Gibbs. Unless you envision AW buying another two defenders who can come into the first team, I'd rather keep him.

wenger has to make wholesale defensive changes to compete. . . . . .i found this on opta. . . . .


Chants are one of the few things that Opta do not keep track of these days but no doubt their boffins chuckled to themselves when Thomas Vermaelen headed a corner clear against Fulham last Sunday and the Arsenal fans giddily started singing, to the tune of White Stripes' Seven Nation Army, "We defended a corner! We defended a corner!" That was an appropriately sarcastic condemnation of the team that conceded a higher proportion of goals from set-pieces (53.5%) this season than any other in the Premier League.

It may have been Vermaelen's clearance that triggered Sunday's celebration, but that does not mean Arsenal would have defended set-pieces better throughout the campaign if the Belgian had been fit: they let in exactly the same number of goals from set-pieces this season as they did last season (23), when Vermaelen regularly featured.

That toll is almost double the number that Arsenal conceded during the 2008‑09 campaign (12), so what happened in the summer of 2009 that suddenly caused their set-piece defending to deteriorate? Sol Campbell left long before that (in his last season, 2005‑06, Arsenal only conceded nine goals from set-pieces) so perhaps Kolo Touré's departure to Manchester City had a bigger effect than is generally supposed? The Ivorian managed more headed clearances in his last season in London than any other Arsenal player – and his tally for that term, 129, is also more than any Arsenal player managed this season.

Craven Cottage is home to the side that conceded the fewest goals from set-pieces this season (10). Perhaps Arsène Wenger should revive his interest in Brede Hangeland and Mark Schwarzer? Hangeland, indeed, made more clearances (424) than any other player this season, with the exception of Blackpool's Ian Evatt (430).

West Bromwich Albion were one of only three teams to concede more, in actual terms, from set-pieces than Arsenal, letting in 30 goals, followed by Aston Villa (27) and Sunderland (24)

I am not Cesc, neither have I said this previously. In my view, the changes this season - falling woefully at the last hurdle in the CC, the appalling falling away late in the season and a new owner mean that Wenger is under more pressure to deliver than ever before. Factor in an increase in season ticket prices and you have a very dangerous situation for the club as a whole - if there isn't sufficient confidence in the side, the empty seats at the Emirates might soon become unsold seats, not just absentees.
If any more compounding was required, 2011/12 will be Arsenal's 125th anniversary - just enough will not do this time around.

fans will still go out there to cheer even if arsenal relegate. for every disgruntled supporter that fails to show up at the emirates, there are hundreds waiting in the queue outside to cop a season ticket. football is a religion. the emirates won't miss any fan.  arsenal's 125th anniversary don't mean squat. if 5 seasons without a trophy couldn't push arsene wenger to ring some changes, i wonder how the anniversary would make any difference.

this season proved the difference between the top teams and the bottom teams have shrunk. tottenham and man city have improved massively and liverpool will give it a go under kenny dalglish. this was wenger's best chance of winning the league when man utd were in transition, chelsea were unstable and liverpool regressed. i don't think there's going to be another season where united will cop just five away wins in the league and chelsea won't cock it up like they did again. next season is going to be very tough. . . .p.s. tottenham just signed brad friedel.

glad to be of assistance. i hate to disaopoint.

its not negativity, its another view to balance out misplaced optimism.

anyways, we all will get our answers in a few months time. what i do know is, there has to be 2 change

debosky:

Is it? I don't think you need to be negative, only realistic. . . .saying you sign 10 year olds when that doesn't actually happen is just being bitter.

It leads to hugging of wet transformers and jumping into rivers.

U don dey madt abi? 

4llerbuntu:

glad to be of assistance. i hate to disaopoint.

its not negativity, its another view to balance out misplaced optimism.

anyways, we all will get our answers in a few months time.  what i do know is, there has to be 2 change

No mind debo jare, let's call it realism jare 

We need a quality LB o #justsaying. Fabio Coentrao readily comes 2 mind

Samba in, Squillaci out.

Parker in, one or two of Diaby/Denilson out.

If Bendtner is going, Get Darren Bent, lol. Squad set.

mystikal:

We need a quality LB o #justsaying. Fabio Coentrao readily comes 2 mind
Samba in, Squillaci out.

Parker in, one or two of Diaby/Denilson out.

If Bendtner is going, Get Darren Bent, lol. Squad set.

I had to laugh at the bold,

They are calling horned animals Taribo west show face

u dey madt, DK

Diego Benaglio was excellent in Euro 2008 and the subsequent season for Wolfsburg but he is no better than Schezny, and an expensive player to buy just to equal Schezny. Fraser Forster should be available on free transfer from Newcastle and is also of similar quality to Schezny.

Let's go Mavericks!! Oops Wrong thread

Officially signing in as a gooner, life without arsenal is drab. The high blood pressure and high pace passing makes my life so interesting.Not to mention our pasttime of losing steam at the wrong moments. I cant stop loving them. The Arsenal Football Club(believe me, I have tried but it wont go away)

one day fabregas will win something with someone NOT ARSENAL. HE is weak psychologically and has not done as much for arsenal as pires or lundberg. the fact that he'd rather be elsewhere doesn't  help morale
good player but not captain material and therefore a liability as far as winning trophies is concerned

@naijababe,
If u r truly the rose that grew from d concrete, then ur petals must have been badly damaged! Though I won't mind.

Hi Ethonda,

I only have 2 spares to return!

CDU that was supposed to be replaced @ Ed0034, and ODU replaced @ Ed0133.

Regards,
Alex.

Cool.

just registering my presence

coogar:

wenger has to make wholesale defensive changes to compete. . . . . .i found this on opta. . . . .


Chants are one of the few things that Opta do not keep track of these days but no doubt their boffins chuckled to themselves when Thomas Vermaelen headed a corner clear against Fulham last Sunday and the Arsenal fans giddily started singing, to the tune of White Stripes' Seven Nation Army, "We defended a corner! We defended a corner!" That was an appropriately sarcastic condemnation of the team that conceded a higher proportion of goals from set-pieces (53.5%) this season than any other in the Premier League.

It may have been Vermaelen's clearance that triggered Sunday's celebration, but that does not mean Arsenal would have defended set-pieces better throughout the campaign if the Belgian had been fit: they let in exactly the same number of goals from set-pieces this season as they did last season (23), when Vermaelen regularly featured.

That toll is almost double the number that Arsenal conceded during the 2008‑09 campaign (12), so what happened in the summer of 2009 that suddenly caused their set-piece defending to deteriorate? Sol Campbell left long before that (in his last season, 2005‑06, Arsenal only conceded nine goals from set-pieces) so perhaps Kolo Touré's departure to Manchester City had a bigger effect than is generally supposed? The Ivorian managed more headed clearances in his last season in London than any other Arsenal player – and his tally for that term, 129, is also more than any Arsenal player managed this season.

Craven Cottage is home to the side that conceded the fewest goals from set-pieces this season (10). Perhaps Arsène Wenger should revive his interest in Brede Hangeland and Mark Schwarzer? Hangeland, indeed, made more clearances (424) than any other player this season, with the exception of Blackpool's Ian Evatt (430).

West Bromwich Albion were one of only three teams to concede more, in actual terms, from set-pieces than Arsenal, letting in 30 goals, followed by Aston Villa (27) and Sunderland (24)

The stats about Evatt are clearly misleading - despite all his interceptions, his eam conceded way more goals than Arsenal, so many interceptions is a better indicator of how much your side comes under attack rather than effectiveness in dealing with set pieces.

A more reasonable comparison would've been Vidic, Terry or Kompany, who play for teams expected to come under the same level of attack as Arsenal.

Secondly, Hangeland and Evatt mentions 'clearances' - it doesn't specify if they are all aerial clearances or clearances in total, making it a wrong comparison to make.

Thirdly, Vermaelen would reasonably be expected to have improved from his debut season, but more importantly, his presence would have avoided the situation of playing so many games with two CBs who had zero premier league experience, or at best with one who had missed an entire season (JD). In that sense, it is a near certainty that our defensive performances would have been better.

Fourthly , I don't know whether penalties were included under set pieces, but Arsenal conceded an amazing number of penalties this season, and I suspect with TV5 around, it may not have been so, simply because the players conceding them would've played less.

Perhaps most important of all, Vermaelen is probably the best organiser we have at the club - his vocal leadership would have improved our defensive performance overall.

Transfer window officially opened on JUNE 1st. Abeg, correct me if I am wrong.

^^^
Arsenal signs Osaze Odemwingie for 4million, Samson Siasia is new head coach (PatRice fired!), Cesc Fab pledges allegiance to d Arsenal cause. Diaby+Denilson exchanged for Messi.

proudly9ja:

^^^
Arsenal signs Osaze Odemwingie for 4million, Samson Siasia is new head coach (PatRice fired!), Cesc Fab pledges allegiance to d Arsenal cause. Diaby+Denilson exchanged for Messi.

No kill me with laugh jare

debosky:

The stats about Evatt are clearly misleading - despite all his interceptions, his eam conceded way more goals than Arsenal, so many interceptions is a better indicator of how much your side comes under attack rather than effectiveness in dealing with set pieces.

you must have skipped logic classes in school. evatt's stats was just by the way. the main point was brede hangeland's number of clearances in comparison to the goals fulham conceded from set-pieces. the article wasn't praising evatt - it just mentioned the only player who had more clearances than hangeland.

A more reasonable comparison would've been Vidic, Terry or Kompany, who play for teams expected to come under the same level of attack as Arsenal.

how so? since terry, vidic and kompany did not concede as many goals as arsenal from set-pieces, how would they have featured in this argument?

Secondly, Hangeland and Evatt mentions 'clearances' - it doesn't specify if they are all aerial clearances or clearances in total, making it a wrong comparison to make.

clearances from set-pieces, mr debosky. whether aerial or not, these are situations arsenal should be defending much better. what's the excuse?

Thirdly, Vermaelen would reasonably be expected to have improved from his debut season, but more importantly, his presence would have avoided the situation of playing so many games with two CBs who had zero premier league experience, or at best with one who had missed an entire season (JD). In that sense, it is a near certainty that our defensive performances would have been better.

i guess you have never heard of 2nd season syndrome. thomas vermaelen was on the pitch when aston villa took arsenal apart at the emirates. vermaelen's absence have been so over-rated. his inclusion wouldn't have stopped arsenal from conceding. kolo toure was mentioned in the article. no single player has matched his 'headed clearance' stats in arsenal since toure left for man city. is that not an indication that vermaelen's lack of football has no bearing in this problem? arsenal conceded the same number of goals from set pieces in vermaelen's debut season(when he featured heavily).

Fourthly , I don't know whether penalties were included under set pieces, but Arsenal conceded an amazing number of penalties this season, and I suspect with TV5 around, it may not have been so, simply because the players conceding them would've played less.

why should 'headed clearance' stats come into play under set-pieces? this is clutching at straws, debosky. in this article set-piece is basically corner kicks and freekicks.

Perhaps most important of all, Vermaelen is probably the best organiser we have at the club - his vocal leadership would have improved our defensive performance overall.

i cannot dispute this. . . .even if we assume vermaelen is the best organiser at the club, his best organization still pales in comparison to his rivals at the top end of the table. in a nutshell, thomas vermaelen's effort is not good enough.

Arsenal for life!!! subscribing, lets hope for the best next season

Coupla new folks coming in it seems. For the price of admission. In nothing less than 500words, please state, discribe and justify your opinion of Denilson, Almunia and Diaby. . .aka Dem Whipping Boiz.

@debo, an important thing folks seem to miss when talking about this aerial, corner whatchacallit is the fact that we are talking percentages here. The reason it is high is cos we allow less chances in open play.

Hangeland/Samba etc etc might be good in clearances but how will they fare when holding a highline, playing it out from the back, recovering when the trap has been beaten. The Hangeland being postulated here is so slow its painful to watch. Hodgson could get away with so many away draws because he had them sitting tite defending deep.

Let everyone keep mentioning their preferred defender. Jus remember after defending dat corner, we still need to put it back on the deck. And the vidic/ferdinand type of defenders who can do both don't come cheap.

Open this thread when Wenger leaves. He cares not for our feelings or yearnings. He is no longer among top coaches of this world.

Like someone stated once, which present world class coach goes 6 yrs without a trophy at an already established club?

Wenger is losing it, he has lost touch with reality. We've lost our sense of pride n worth. He has succeeded in making turning arsenal to 'just another team'.
De players are frustrated, fabregas is our captain, but i think its time he let go, de young lad wants to win trophies, and arsenal is not ready for one.
On nasri, if we lose nasri, our season is dark.

Sharon has come again with his inability to comprehend simple statements.

coogar:

you must have skipped logic classes in school. evatt's stats was just by the way. the main point was brede hangeland's number of clearances in comparison to the goals fulham conceded from set-pieces. the article wasn't praising evatt - it just mentioned the only player who had more clearances than hangeland.

It is irrelevant to the discussion - that was my point. More pertinently, how many of his clearances were headers?

How many of Hangeland's clearances were headers? That will be a useful comparator. Furthermore, which attribute prevents set piece goals more - is it the ability to clear aerial balls or prevent the crosses from coming in ab initio?

how so? since terry, vidic and kompany did not concede as many goals as arsenal from set-pieces, how would they have featured in this argument?

They don't need to concede as many goals - their clearances will be a good comparison since they would be expected to be attacked to a similar level compared to Arsenal. Comparing Arsenal defenders to guys who are bombarded all game is pointless.

clearances from set-pieces, mr debosky. whether aerial or not, these are situations arsenal should be defending much better. what's the excuse?

There is no excuse - I have simply pointed out the glaring flaws in the casual analysis attempting to place the blame for poor set piece defending on the number of headed clearances. There are a multitude of factors that could be responsible, ranging from the GK's reading of aerial balls, the full backs preventing crosses coming in and the ability of the CBs.

i guess you have never heard of 2nd season syndrome. thomas vermaelen was on the pitch when aston villa took arsenal apart at the emirates.

His first game in nearly 9 months - it simply showed he was off the pace.

vermaelen's absence have been so over-rated. his inclusion wouldn't have stopped arsenal from conceding. kolo toure was mentioned in the article. no single player has matched his 'headed clearance' stats in arsenal since toure left for man city.

Kolo being mentioned is red herring - Arsenal conceded ONLY 6 goals more this term than Kolo's last season, despite playing 3 GKs this season and playing 2 defenders who have never played in the EPL, plus one who missed the whole of last season.

So having Kolo and Gallas, two title winning EPL CBs is a mere 6 goal improvement over Arsenal of this season? So much for his addition.

is that not an indication that vermaelen's lack of football has no bearing in this problem? arsenal conceded the same number of goals from set pieces in vermaelen's debut season(when he featured heavily).

His first season in the EPL - that is worth noting. We can go back to Vidic's first season and see that he suffered in the early days as well.

why should 'headed clearance' stats come into play under set-pieces? this is clutching at straws, debosky. in this article set-piece is basically corner kicks and freekicks.

See me see trouble - who brought the headed clearance shitzo into this? Was it me?

Are the large number of penalties conceded by Arsenal this season included? That would further dilute any so called 'headed clearance' impact.

i cannot dispute this. . . .even if we assume vermaelen is the best organiser at the club, his best organization still pales in comparison to his rivals at the top end of the table. in a nutshell, thomas vermaelen's effort is not good enough.

It remains to be seen - Vidic improved with time, so did other foreign defenders in the EPL. I don't see any reason why to treat TV differently.

Dwelling on penalties, it would be hard to find another season where they have had such an impact on Arsenal.

Penalties against Spurs cost at least 3 points, arguably 5 points.

Penalty against Liverpool - 2 points

2 penalties (!) against Newcastle - 2 points

What about penalties missed?

Penalty at Sunderland - 2 points

Those are the ones I can easily recall.

debosky:

It is irrelevant to the discussion - that was my point. More pertinently, how many of his clearances were headers?

that is irrelevant. we are not discussing the heights of the players here. . . . .we are discussing clearances.

How many of Hangeland's clearances were headers? That will be a useful comparator. Furthermore, which attribute prevents set piece goals more - is it the ability to clear aerial balls or prevent the crosses from coming in ab initio?

you are a tool! ability to clear aerial balls or preventing the crosses from coming in? how many times do players prevent corner-kicks from coming into the box? how many times do they prevent indirect freekicks or rory delap's long throws? of couse, the ability to clear aerial balls is far superior to preventing the crosses from coming in. . . .preventing the crosses will invite more set-pieces in throw-ins or corner-kicks, you dumbo!

They don't need to concede as many goals - their clearances will be a good comparison since they would be expected to be attacked to a similar level compared to Arsenal. Comparing Arsenal defenders to guys who are bombarded all game is pointless.

it is not. this statistic is not culled from open play - but from set-pieces.

There is no excuse - I have simply pointed out the glaring flaws in the casual analysis attempting to place the blame for poor set piece defending on the number of headed clearances. There are a multitude of factors that could be responsible, ranging from the GK's reading of aerial balls, the full backs preventing crosses coming in and the ability of the CBs.

full-backs preventing crosses coming in from corners, long throws, blackburn's use of the long ball methods, etc.  dr kit was right, you are a fat fool!

His first game in nearly 9 months - it simply showed he was off the pace.

psssssf. . . . . .same excuses would have been used for torres if he had been injured all season before joining chelsea. there you go. . . .

Kolo being mentioned is red herring - Arsenal conceded ONLY 6 goals more this term than Kolo's last season, despite playing 3 GKs this season and playing 2 defenders who have never played in the EPL, plus one who missed the whole of last season.

6 goals is only? if we break those 6 goals into 1 goal each. . . . . and remove 1 goal each from what arsenal opponents scored in their score-draws with arsenal this season, that would be 12 points gained for arsenal. good enough to have usurped man utd.

So having Kolo and Gallas, two title winning EPL CBs is a mere 6 goal improvement over Arsenal of this season? So much for his addition.

6 goals that could have equalled to 12 extra points.

His first season in the EPL - that is worth noting. We can go back to Vidic's first season and see that he suffered in the early days as well.

vidic joined mid-season. . . .no pre-season with united team-mates. in his first full season, he won the prem title and a pfa spot.

See me see trouble - who brought the headed clearance shitzo into this? Was it me?
Are the large number of penalties conceded by Arsenal this season included? That would further dilute any so called 'headed clearance' impact.

are defenders allowed to use their heads to make clearance when a penalty kick is taken?

It remains to be seen - Vidic improved with time, so did other foreign defenders in the EPL. I don't see any reason to treat TV differently.

vermaelen is a microcosm of what vidic epitomises. vida is the truth!

O.M.G Djourou may never play for Switzerland again!

My points are clear - I am not wholly convinced about this issue of headed clearances - there are many subtleties not reflected in that stat alone such as positioning, organisation, GK intervention and the influence of the fullbacks, either in closing out the crosses or intercepting.

Furthermore, we cannot be looking at the one team that conceded fewer goals from set pieces alone, or the sheer number of interceptions - we should look at teams that concede less goals than Arsenal, and at teams that experience similar levels of attacks. iT makes basic sense that if you get attacked more, you will make more interceptions, without the number being an indication of the player's quality.

Each team is more susceptible to a type of move, so that statistic of itself is not the crux as such in my view.

*************************************************************************************************************
Watching the England game, JD showed his numerous flaws today - not good at interceptions and makes rash tackles. He cost a penalty on Jack and almost did the same on Walcott except for a myopic referee. He also missed the interception that Bent should've put away from Jack's through ball.

Benaglio the alleged target GK was ok, made a good save from Bent, almost saved Lamps' penalty but was otherwise not very involved. Then again, the much hyped Hart made schoolboy errors today, so I guess Benaglio did ok.

Jack showed his excellent qualities and determination, Walcott was so so, but had an ok game overall. The Parker people are calling for was good, but not exceptional either.

Book Thread of Lamentation Continua