very few, mostly d religious ones.

Tuareg r generally lenient on religion to the extent that they even mix pre-islamic/animist beliefs with islam, so they r not well-versed in the quraán or arabic.i hav heard that even when they pray, they just recite d opening and closing verses and omit everythng in between. another aspect is they r loosely matrilineal, sumthing generally unheard of among muslims. they go by their mothers name, instead of their fathers' and revere their legendary pre-islamic woman ancestor, Tin Hinan who they call, the Queen and mother of the tribe / mother of us all.

yes, tuaregs are somewhat matrilineal.

PAGAN 9JA:

Shuwa arabs are very few in Borno. they jus occasionally spill across d border for better grazing. d only reason they[i] once [/i]produced a governor is cuz they r almost always armed.

Wrong, Shuwas are many in Borno. They have whole local governments like Jere, Kala-Balge and Marte. It may surprise you to know that the following people are Shuwa Arab

Dr Muhammad Abba Aji, GEJ's liason to the national assembly
Mallam Sanusi Daggash, immediate past minister of works
Maryam Abatcha, former first lady of Nigeria
Alhaji Ashek Jarma, former governor of Borno state.

You see not everybody from Borno is Kanuri.

PAGAN 9JA:

as for the black Tuaregs and Berbers, i think u have not really met them or have met the wrong people. The Tuareg/ Berbers dont speak arabic, they speak Berber languages or/and Tamasheq,Tamahaq, Tayart Tamajaq,Tawallammat Tamajaq , Tetserret/Shinsert/Tin Sert.  It even has its own script, Tifinagh.
by the way, do u lyk camel milk its salty bu good.

The Berbers are the Amazigh and their script Tifinagh. They have their language but they also speak Arabic same with many northerners who speak Hausa despite having their native tongue. You know PAGAN, they call us subharan Africa but I believe the desert starts from within Nigeria. There are areas of Borno and Yobe states that are full blown deserts and are frequented by these desert dwellers.

And yes, I like camel milk. It's salty but you can make it taste better by sweetening it with a little honey. We believe, it has medicinal values.

tpia@:

yes, tuaregs are somewhat matrilineal.

Actually not all of them. But this is true for both Tuaregs and Berbers in ancient times. But many Tuareg and Berber tribes of Borno have dropped that culture since the early days of Kanem. But I think it may be the remnants of that culture in Borno that people are given nicknames attached to their mother's name. Names like Bintube, Kingibe, Mairambe are good examples. They are like son of Bintu, son of Kingi and son of Mairam respectively. This is especially important in large polygamus families where you find two or more siblings having the same name.

The desert starts in Nigeria? Interesting thought.
But What does that make Niger and Chad tho.

ig have you ever tried camel hump? I heard it's an Arab delicacy.

@pleep, where I come from, more camels are slaughtered than cattle in the abattoirs. But I hope you know something about meat; the smaller the animal the sweeter it's meat. So cow is sweeter than camel and goat sweeter and sheep and cow. And do you know that camels are not slaughtered with a knife but a spear?

FYI, greater parts of Niger and Chad are desert areas. Have you ever heard of Agadez in Niger? it's in the heart of the Sahara. To many people in the extreme upper north, there is no clear distinction where North Africa ends and West and Central Africa begins. Just think of it, Niger is the only one country between Nigeria and Algeria. And Ndjamena, the Chadian capital is closer to Maiduguri than Kano is. Ndjamena is only 300km while Kano is around 530 km from Maiduguri.

i did not say everyone from Borno is kanuri. I said that Kanuri in Borno are in majority. As a consequence, its obvious that there are fewer Shuwa arabs.

IG:

Actually not all of them. But this is true for both Tuaregs and Berbers in ancient times. But many Tuareg and Berber tribes of Borno have dropped that culture since the early days of Kanem. But I think it may be the remnants of that culture in Borno that people are given nicknames attached to their mother's name. Names like Bintube, Kingibe, Mairambe are good examples. They are like son of Bintu, son of Kingi and son of Mairam respectively. This is especially important in large polygamus families where you find two or more siblings having the same name.

Tuareg have not yet dropped the culture of using their maternal name. most Touareg today still go according to matrilineal lines. What is surprising is that Touareg DO NOT PRACTICE POLYGAMY which is a normal thing among arabs and other neighboring peoples. They are supposed to have only one life partner (this clearly shows females having a higher status). This is as a result of pre-islamic values and morals still adhered to by the Touareg inspite of being muslim. (It is common knowledge that Touareg mix Pagan Animism with islam. as a result, they are moderates and even lenient).

IG:

@pleep, where I come from, more camels are slaughtered than cattle in the abattoirs. But I hope you know something about meat; the smaller the animal the sweeter it's meat. So cow is sweeter than camel and goat sweeter and sheep and cow. And do you know that camels are not slaughtered with a knife but a spear?

FYI, greater parts of Niger and Chad are desert areas. Have you ever heard of Agadez in Niger? it's in the heart of the Sahara. To many people in the extreme upper north, there is no clear distinction where North Africa ends and West and Central Africa begins. Just think of it, Niger is the only one country between Nigeria and Algeria. And Ndjamena, the Chadian capital is closer to Maiduguri than Kano is. Ndjamena is only 300km while Kano is around 530 km from Maiduguri.

you are absolutely right. the smaller the animal, the better tasting and also healthier, the meat. as a result i generally consume chicken, at times seafood, and the occasional goat. to me cows and camels are almost similar in the social breakdown, so they are at the bottom of the consumption chain.

and yes, camels are usually   speared, but im not sure how arabs do it. to bring down a camel, one must kill it with a single stroke, aimed straight at the heart. i have also personally seen the Pagan Turkana people of Kenya, during their unique initiation ceremony, whereby young adults must spear a camels heart with one stroke, in order to pass on as adults without bad luck. to kill the camel with more than one stroke causes the animal pain and sufferring and as a result the person who did so will be heaped with bad luck and bad omens and he must then sacrifice a goat in order to please the God. next comes the reading of the guts (not used for consumption), where the future of the young man is told by elders who divine the mysteries of the camel guts.the ceremony finally ends with the beheading of the dead camel, asking forgiveness, expressing gratiude, respecting and praying to the head of the camel and ofcourse, the ceremonial dance around it.

PAGAN  9JA:

i did not say everyone from Borno is kanuri. I said that Kanuri in Borno are in majority. As a consequence, its obvious that there are fewer Shuwa arabs.

You know, the Kanuri is a nation of many ethnic groups so naturally you expect them to be many. For example the following ethnic groups are all Kanuri; Magumi, Kwayam, Badawi, Kanembu and Manga. A good percentage of Bade and Ngizim people are also part of the Kanuri nation. Many Baburs in Biu also have Kanuri origin.

Actually, most nomadic people have a tendency of mixing Islam with their pre-Islamic beliefs. Tuaregs do practice polygamy but it's usually practiced only by men of higher social status. Also some of the ethnic groups that descended from the Tuaregs do practice polygamy. A good example is the Zaghawa.

And don't forget, even the Tuaregs that are matrilineal are not matriarchal. It is men and not women that lead the families, clans, tribes e.t.c

Zaghawa are not even closely related to the Berber Touareg. In Fact, most of the Zaghawa were converted through mass conversions from Animism to islam in the 1940's as a result of Tijani Muslim missionaries from West Africa who were traveling through their area to make the pilgrimage to Mecca. Ofcourse, as usual, they were forced to convert because their leaders converted. the Zaghawa and the Fur people of Darfur, together makeup two of the main ""African"" groups, fighting against the arabs.

most Tuareg detest polygamy.

Pagan9ja to prove that you are who you say you are. Continue this argument in Hausa.

i cud do that but why should i  i want people from all other tribes to realise the miistakes and misconception of the monotheists and to realise the truth. i am here for all. 

and anyways this is basically an english forum and i feel more comfortable in expressing my views and concepts through the english medium.

PAGAN  9JA:

Zaghawa are not even closely related to the Berber Touareg. In Fact, most of the Zaghawa were converted through mass conversions from Animism to islam in the 1940's as a result of Tijani Muslim missionaries from West Africa who were traveling through their area to make the pilgrimage to Mecca. Ofcourse, as usual, they were forced to convert because their leaders converted. the Zaghawa and the Fur people of Darfur, together makeup two of the main ""African"" groups, fighting against the arabs.

most Tuareg detest polygamy.

@PAGAN, do you know how funny I sometimes find your comments?. For God's sake (put your deity here if you don't believe in God), you are arguing with me about my own people. You did not even grow up in Africa. There is a world of difference between what you read on wikipedia and what I have real life experience of.

And just to avoid future blunders, there is nothing like Berber Touaregs. The Berbers and Tuaregs are two distinct set of people. You can see, I've been careful in my posts not to mix them up.

And just so you know, I am from the Kanem-Borno area. We have been recording our history for up to a thousand years now. So, I am not just relying on online sources for historical facts. Plus our grandparents and parents have been passing down facts to us. So we most of the time recognize our people, whether they have become Hausas, Yorubas, Igalas or are Guran, Zaghawas or Shuwa Arabs roaming the desert.

Bottom line is you are trying to promote African Traditional religion but know very little about Africa. You are not different from white Academicians who think they understand African traditions.

Ko za mu dan taba Hausa ne? Kasan ina da kawunnai Hausawa da kuma Fulani. Kaga ko ta ina ka juya, mutane na kake magana a kai.

IMPORTANT NEW INFO: Fulbe traditional spirituality is still practiced!!!! within Futa Toro(Senegal), once a Pullo has been initiated into 'Wayilbe Fulbe' she/he is able to communicate with the Gods(Laaréji) and the ancestors, according to sources.

by the way, Touareg ARE Berber.

IG,

Don Allah ka daina pata lokaci da wanna dan iskan. Ko ta ina ka juye da nuna mai gaskiya, ya shirya da kariya da munafiki n'da ya baro daga wajjajen kafarci.

Mutum, ka manta da shi!

please dont interfere fool. u r a worthless man urself. im speaking about the Fulani here and i dont require your useless sentimental talk to disrupt the direction of my thread. jus leave it, if u cant provide a proper argument.

The proper argument is to kidnap and sell you to Mogadishu warlords.

Oh no, I forgot that's an islamic country; I don't want you dead.

I think Darfur market is better for your 'ss. Yeah, I should ship your maguzawa a*sse to the supporters of APC.

Negro_Ntns:

Oh no, I forgot that's an islamic country; I don't want you dead.

I think Darfur market is better for your 'ss. Yeah, I should ship your maguzawa a*sse to the supporters of APC.

are u a northerner ? negro ntn

Hmm, So so!

Negro_Ntns:

Hmm, So so!

I asked because u talk like the true son of the soil.So are u hausa by any chance

Negro_Ntns:

Oh no, I forgot that's an islamic country; I don't want you dead.

I think Darfur market is better for your 'ss. Yeah, I should ship your maguzawa a*sse to the supporters of APC.

u will repent fella. if not now, in your old age. u have not only insulted me, but also my people, who might even be[i] your [/i] own people, if u r a true Haussa. for your double crime and unfaithfulness to your ancestors , tribe and true religion,    i curse u insolent man. i speak no more.

Pagan,

May your generations be cursed with far greater burden and destruction with which pagans in all history have been cursed and destroyed.

<Quot>alj_harem:

I asked because u talk like the true son of the soil.So are u hausa by any chance </quote>

Lol! I don't even know what you talking 'bout.

Negro_Ntns:

Pagan,

May your generations be cursed with far greater burden and destruction with which pagans in all history have been cursed and destroyed.

ha! im so scared of your curse.    to curse someone is not a childs playy, Negro.

we might have been destroyed, enslaved, broken, massacred, yet our spirit still remains alive and we are not lost yet. this is just the begining.

theres more to come. 

Really fascinating discussion/argument. I've learnt a lot, thanks

Negro nations is a yoruba just like you alj harem.

You people are making me laugh

Now that you are busy classifying my clan (Buzaye), please go on to classify me base on my appearance on the attached photo of mine.

tpia@:
Berbers do speak arabic i believe.

They're just starting to revitalize their own language.

Berbers speak Tamazight (depending on region). In Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Burkina Faso, the Tuaregs speak Tamasheq/Tamashaq

IG:
@PAGAN, can we talk without insulting one another please ?



Songhai, Mandingo, Mande and Bambara all descend from the Zaghawa. They are Touaregs who originated from the middle-east.
@PAGAN, there is a very good book I will recommend for you. It is called "The People Of Africa" by Henry M. Schieffelin. It talked about the various ethnic groups found by the earliest European missionaries in Africa. Some sections of the book were papers written by those missionaries. Contrary to conventional belief, many parts of Africa were either practicing Islam or Christianity when the European invaded. There are many that are animist but they don't cover the whole of Africa as is popularly promoted.

عبدالكريم Thanks for the info. This is well known info to our elders in Borno. Another group of interest are the Baqqarah Arabs. We call them Shuwa Arab. They found in Borno in Nigeria. They are also found in Chad and Sudan. They are called Baqqara because they rear cattle (Baqarah) instead of camels.

Now @PAGAN, back to Hausa Bakwai. The following are the Hausa bakwai kingdoms
1- Daura
2- Kano
3- Katsina
4- Zazzau
5- Gobir
6- Rano
7- Biram

As you can see, Gumel is not in the Hausa bakwai. They were in Borno.
Now I know I may be a small hurdle to your pro-paganism campaign, but use facts if you want to make any impact. And one more thing, I still believe you are not Hausa. In fact all the Hausa speakers that have posted on this thread so far have agreed with me.

Be Cool

A lot of what you say is correct except for the fact that Songhai, Mande, Bambara, Mandingo did not descend from Zaghawa.

Bambara and Mandingo are a part of the Mande group of people. The Songhai peoples who speak a language closer to the Beri-beri (a Nilo-Saharan language) are comprised of groups like the Djerma/Zarma, Sonrai Korya Chinni in Mali and Niger, and Dendi in Benin and parts of Nigeria, though the more prevalent group in Nigeria towards Sokoto region are the Zarma.

Sad how they only semi decent looking people Fulani/Toureg in west africa are a mix of berbers and blacks and many came from the horn of africa.