@lagoshia

Pls Obi, i wuld advice you to drop with him. If he cannot discuss JW without being polite and with the intention to deride himself then save you strenght for those who are ready and wlling to discuss with the view to understanding and learning from each other in a peaceful atmosphere.

@ibukun obi & beync

the problem is,you want to use this thread the way you go door to door preaching.i am not interested in telling me or declaring what your doctrines/beliefs say.i am here to challenge your beliefs and want you to prove them if you can.you dont tell me an apple is green because your father and the entire world says so.show me what green is and then compare your apple to green and we all shall see its color.i am not interested what your father was and how he migrated from one faith to another.i am here to debate topics and not people.the issue with christians is the fact that you tend to focus more on people than doctrines when trying to prove your beliefs.and the problem with that is the fact that each group among you and every religion on earth can provide someone who claims to have wandered the sahara desert before embracing that particular faith.you boast of morality,as if JWs are angels walking the earth.there are good and bad among them just as you find in every other group.i have replied you in post #179,page #6 on your claims on morality and  demonizing others.

so please,if you want to prove your faith and doctrines,i use my head.you cannot bring me excerpts from your awake or watchtower magazines and expect me to believe in them without scrutinizing them and talking about them.i am not here for your "bible study" (sessions to convert people to JWs).i am here to confront you if you like to see it as such.if you think you have the truth and nothing but the truth,face me!as for the topic on hell fire,i believe we are done with that.i am waiting for you to bring the next topic to prove your beliefs and why mankind in its entirety should surrender to the faith and doctrines of the watchtower organization in brooklyn,USA.

If I have misconceptions about anything I go directly to source to sort it all out. Likewise, if i had misconception about Jehovah Witnesses I will go and ask an active Jehovah's Witnesses about their faith. Unfortunately many of the forums about Jehovah Witnesses are started by non-Jehovah Witnesses or former Jehovah Witnesses (who tend to have some bias toward the religion), on that note many of these so-called Jehovah Witnesses forum are simply good reads but are not informative neither trustworthy. I wouldn't ask a Christian to explain the Islamic faith, neither would i ask someone that associates with a Muslim to explain the Islamic faith. I am just saying.

meyri:

If I have misconceptions about anything I go directly to source to sort it all out. Likewise, if i had misconception about Jehovah Witnesses I will go and ask an active Jehovah's Witnesses about their faith. Unfortunately many of the forums about Jehovah Witnesses are started by non-Jehovah Witnesses or former Jehovah Witnesses (who tend to have some bias toward the religion), on that note many of these so-called Jehovah Witnesses forum are simply good reads but are not informative neither trustworthy. I wouldn't ask a Christian to explain the Islamic faith, neither would i ask someone that associates with a Muslim to explain the Islamic faith. I am just saying.

ibukun obi and co are jehovah's witnesses.so we are asking them to come forth and explain to us their faith.the only problem with him is the lack of initiative and individuality in his posts to defend his beliefs.he cannot explain their belliefs in simple words with common sense and logic without quoting for us watchtower magazines verbatim to preach.

also anyone can be asked about his faith and tell you as the source.that means nothing if the beliefs and their explanations are not convincing or does not make sense.

LagosShia:

also anyone can be asked about his faith and tell you as the source.that means nothing if the beliefs and their explanations are not convincing or does not make sense.

I don't seem to understand what you are saying here. May be you are confused because there were 1000+ questions about Islam and Muslims which you have not answer in the Islam and Religion boards.

Can you just tell me in one word the meaning of Hell fire?
Can you also quote minimum of two scriptures where the word HELL FIRE was mentioned in your Bible?

As for me I will keep my trust in God and will never lean upon my own understanding which the scriptures tells me.

ibukun obi:

Can you just tell me in one word the meaning of Hell fire?
Can you also quote minimum of two scriptures where the word[b] HELL FIRE [/b]was mentioned in your Bible?

As for me I will keep my trust in God and will never lean upon my own understanding which the scriptures tells me.

Who put fire in Hell? Hell is a place of darkness there is no fire in hell as a matter of fact Bible says Hell will be cast into lake of fire, not fire into hell.

TrueSeeker:

I don't seem to understand what you are saying here. May be you are confused because there were 1000+ questions about Islam and Muslims which you have not answer in the Islam and Religion boards.

you say that you dont "seem to understand what i am saying" and then you say "maybe i am confused".

i am simply saying that simply because you are getting info from the source (adherents) does not necessary mean that the info is convincing or right.

ibukun obi:

Can you just tell me in one word the meaning of Hell fire?
Can you also quote minimum of two scriptures where the word HELL FIRE was mentioned in your Bible?

As for me I will keep my trust in God and will never lean upon my own understanding which the scriptures tells me.

check the posts.
next topic please!

@LagosShia

i am simply saying that simply because you are getting info from the source (adherents) does not necessary mean that the info is convincing or right.

Just because you do not find someone religious view convincing doesn't mean they are not right/wrong. You made a choice not to find it convincing or right because it conflict with your own belief system.

Hellfire: Lets make this short and sweet. Jesus and Job were in hell at one point in there life. These men were supposedly "good men''. So hellfire is just mankind common grave. We will all eventually die so we will all go to hell. 

meyri:

@LagosShia

Just because you do not find someone religious view convincing doesn't mean they are not right/wrong. You made a choice not to find it convincing or right because it conflict with your own belief system.

Hellfire: Lets make this short and sweet. Jesus and Job were in hell at one point in there life. These men were supposedly "good men''. So hellfire is just mankind common grave. We will all eventually die so we will all go to hell.

OK.

But too bad i'm done with the subjeect of "hell fire".or do you want to answer my question,which if you do would take you out of the fold of JWs and their doctrines?

next subject please!

"Bible (im)morality"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739876.0.html

"Where Is Jesus"?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739871.0.html

"Bible Verses Churches Conceal From Your Ears":
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-743341.0.html

"Killing Children Is Bible Miracle"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-735998.0.html

"According To The Bible:if Your Wife Saves Your Life,you Cut Off Her Hand"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=736626.msg8931460#msg8931460

"Jesus Never Told Anyone He Will Die For Them"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-735489.0.html

"Bible Scholars Admit To Bible Text Discrepancies"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-734053.0.html

"the Christian God:blood And Human Sacrifice"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-651811.0.html

"original Sin"-linking It To An Imperfect God!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-551599.0.html

"False Prophecies Of The New Testament" (bible)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-550247.0.html

"The Quran Or The Bible,which Is God's Word"?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-729581.0.html

"The Christian Resurrection Myth"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739850.0.html

"Ill-fitting/hillarious Qualities Of God In The Bible"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739934.0.html

"Violent Christians,"turn-the-cheek" Pretenders Burning London And Other Cities"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-732120.0.html

"Weekly Crusaders' Report-this Thread Would Be Updated Regularly"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-732741.0.html

"Norway Christian Terrorist Motive:"to Demand Crusade Against Spread Of Islam"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-719777.0.html

"German Priest Burns Himself To Death To Protest Spread Of Islam"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-551584.0.html

"Why Muslims Pray In Arabic"?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-574141.0.html

^ no one is sensible &logical to answer ur quest right? We canot dance to ur tune, u can stay here 100yrs critisizin our faith is not new to us and dat wil not prevent right minded ones who truely want to learn d bible wit us frm doin so ok. Right here no one is conductn bible study wit u like u claim, we were only discusin issues peeps raised here til u come and turn dis tread into jos crisis. wit ur contemptous words one cud easily no u dont hav any gud motive behind ur unsatiable quests. Look we rnt shot of members hence u said we r tryin to convince u into a JW. Wat significant does a drop of water hav on occean? Very insignificant and irrelevant! I gues u know. We honestly welcom peeps who want to learn bible wit us and then allow them to make informed decision. We dont compel anyone to becom a JW or remaim a JW. So in ur deapest dream dont think ur derideful words can discourage anyone here or make us look stupid. I only feel sorry for u.

Now what? Oh just like all the other JW tread , always derailing.

meyri:

Now what? Oh just like all the other JW tread , always derailing.

we can put hands together and move to the next subject so that the thread is not derailed.

@ Beync, you have said it all. Let LagosShia first remove the rafter in his or her her eyes before looking at the straw in another person's eye. A typical trait of the Pharisees and saducees in jesus day. He is not even ashamed of what his brothers - Boko Haram(His so called right religion) is doing and he is here condeming a well known peace loving people worldwide. JW are known worldwide as the only people that follow exactly christ foot step. LagosShia go and put your house in order before making a baseless argument.

eeguru:

@ Beync, you have said it all. Let LagosShia first remove the rafter in his or her her eyes before looking at the straw in another person's eye. A typical trait of the Pharisees and saducees in jesus day. He is not even ashamed of what his brothers - Boko Haram(His so called right religion) is doing and he is here condeming a well known peace loving people worldwide. JW are known worldwide as the only people that follow exactly christ foot step. LagosShia go and put your house in order before making a baseless argument.

Boko Haram,al-qaeda,and all those western engineered terrorist groups are not my brothers.I am "Shia" and those terrorist groups are wahhabis.as many Shia as members from any other group have fallen victim to these groups.check how many shia have being killed in pakistan,afghanistan,and iraq.then,dont stop there.Jehovah's witnesses that i've met love playing the victim's role.they boast of beng persecuted by Hitler (when JWs refused to join the German army as JWs oppose military service) and in some countries were they are harrassed for their preaching work,which is sometimes seen as a menace to non-JWs.if you look at the history of Shia you will find out that after the demise of the Prophet (sa) our 11 of 12 Imams were matyred by tyrannical and despotic rulers who represented satanic and devilish tendencies.furthermore,i can stress that Shia in the history of mankind have being the most persecuted religious community on a continuos basis.however,that makes us no better than us when it comes to following the same path in reaching out to others to prove our religion to be the absolute truth and the right path for mankind to follow.

stop being sentimental because it will not help your case.i can see more of you are pouring into the thread and i like that.you're welcome!i hope we can go to the next subject anyone of you can pick and start.

simply being peaceful or being victims of persecution does not make your beliefs right or unquestionable especially when you make it a point of duty to be knocking on people's homes to spread your watchtower doctrines.if the devil becomes peaceful today,it does not necessarily make him my friend or make him "angelic" or someone that can be followed.likewise,you should respect a people who defend themselves from oppression and stand against perssecution with all their might.try to discriminate between defense and resistance as the people of palestine undertake to resist occupation and terrorist activities of groups like boko haram and al qaeda who benefit the muslims in no way but rather they harm our image which confused souls like yourself use to blackmail us.

shame on you!

LagosShia, i didnt want to reply you because i dont like discussing with people that are biased. The Scripture says by their fruits you shall know them. Although you claim that u are a faction from moslem that are being murdered and persecuted than any other religious group, Please, Kindly look at ur watch word ( fight like Ali and die like Hussain). Violence and terrorism has been your religion way of life whether in faction or not. If 90% of the world are JW, the world would have been a better place to live. Is that not what you are hoping and praying for in ur Ajana (paradise)? Think twice!

.

eeguru:

LagosShia, i didnt want to reply you because i dont like discussing with people that are biased. The Scripture says by their fruits you shall know them. Although you claim that u are a faction from moslem that are being murdered and persecuted than any other religious group, Please, Kindly look at your watch word ( fight like Ali and die like Hussain). Violence and terrorism has been your religion way of life whether in faction or not. If 90% of the world are JW, the world would have been a better place to live. Is that not what you are hoping and praying for in your Ajana (paradise)? Think twice!

first let me say that you're in a pitiful condition because you misuse and misapply your scripture which you do not understand and you depend on watchtower magazines written by fallible men to understand what you regard as "infallible" (even though both aren't anyways).and you're bent on provocation instead of initiating a discussion on another subject concerning your beliefs.

that is the same attitude you want to apply to my words.i have explained those words earlier to another member.so i'd just quote myself as reply to you.and to further clarify,must one who fights for the truth even with a pen or through a keyboard and also die a matyr for a just cause be condemned as you're doing?you're the one interpreting things the way you like because you lack understanding.your brain is tamed.

LagosShia:

Live like Muhammad (sa) because he was the complete and perfect model for us humans to follow.
Fight like Ali (aS) because he was brave and courageous and also wise and triumphant.infact when he was being matyred,he exclaimed:"I have indeed triumphed,by the Lord of the Ka'ba".you can imagine someone being hit with a sword on the head while prostrating in morning prayer on the 19th day of the holy month of Ramadan,which we are commemorating presently.infact,to be brave,courageous and wise can be done in so many ways including propagating the truth and exposing falsehood.
Die like Hussain (as) because islamically and humanely and morally matyrs are heroes and immortalized.so matyrdom is something people should wish for than dying a natural death which is anyways inevitable.Imam Hussain (as) is the "chief of the matyrs".
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739881.0.html

This is wat i was saying, I knew he was going to come after you, anyone whose view goes contrary to his whelms is tame. Very fool of himself, I wish eeguru would reply this fool with silent.

Beync:

This is wat i was saying, I knew he was going to come after you, anyone whose view goes contrary to his whelms is tame. Very fool of himself, I wish eeguru would reply this fool with silent.

use your whistle or may be your flag or give me a red card;you're acting the referee/lines man.

^^^^^

Mujahideen soldier is here again,

LagosShia:

Boko Haram,al-qaeda,and all those western engineered terrorist groups are not my brothers.I am "Shia" and those terrorist groups are wahhabis.as many Shia as members from any other group have fallen victim to these groups.check how many shia have being killed in pakistan,afghanistan,and iraq.then,dont stop there.Jehovah's witnesses that i've met love playing the victim's role.they boast of beng persecuted by Hitler (when JWs refused to join the German army as JWs oppose military service) and in some countries were they are harrassed for their preaching work,which is sometimes seen as a menace to non-JWs.if you look at the history of Shia you will find out that after the demise of the Prophet (sa) our 11 of 12 Imams were matyred by tyrannical and despotic rulers who represented satanic and devilish tendencies.furthermore,i can stress that Shia in the history of mankind have being the most persecuted religious community on a continuos basis.however,that makes us no better than us when it comes to following the same path in reaching out to others to prove our religion to be the absolute truth and the right path for mankind to follow.

stop being sentimental because it will not help your case.i can see more of you are pouring into the thread and i like that.you're welcome!i hope we can go to the next subject anyone of you can pick and start.

simply being peaceful or being victims of persecution does not make your beliefs right or unquestionable especially when you make it a point of duty to be knocking on people's homes to spread your watchtower doctrines.if the devil becomes peaceful today,it does not necessarily make him my friend or make him "angelic" or someone that can be followed.likewise,you should respect a people who defend themselves from oppression and stand against perssecution with all their might.try to discriminate between defense and resistance as the people of palestine undertake to resist occupation and terrorist activities of groups like boko haram and al qaeda who benefit the muslims in no way but rather they harm our image which confused souls like yourself use to blackmail us.

shame on you!

Shia though are some of the most violent muslims ever to be encountred.

Just look at Hizbulla. Are they no Shia Now do not LIE !!!!

[img]http://1.bp..com/_uftmRIkAyHc/SMczbVMe9pI/AAAAAAAAA70/g_lTsaDUHsE/s400/020211_hizbullah.jpg[/img]



[img]http://hamaslovers.files./2008/10/nasrallahahmedinijad1.jpg[/img]

2 Terrorists

This topic is like a train on a damaged track, its derailing.

frosbel:


Shia though are some of the most violent muslims ever to be encountred.

have you ever heard of Shia combatants going to markets and places where innocent civilians gather to kill them or blow themselves up?

the Shia when defending themselves fight like men against enemy combatants.

the Shia men do not fight if there is no religious authority who backs them up to defend themselves.

the Shia wherever you find them hold strictly to the verse of the Quran (2:256) which says:there is no compulsion in religion.

the Shia hold strictly to the example set by the Prophet (sa) by only fighting enemy combatants.

Just look at Hizbulla. Are they no Shia Now do not LIE !!!!

and what is wrong with hezbollah? whether hezbollah is right or wrong,it makes no difference on how a religion should be judged.but nontheless,let us examine the facts.

hezbollah is a source of pride for all muslims and an exemplary model in the islamic world fighting against injustice,oppression and occupation.

simply because america call them "terrorists" in defense of israel,which itself is the greatest source of terror on earth, does not obliged me to follow that definition.

hezbollah members are elected democratically by the people of Lebanon.they represent the shia lebanese who make up the largest single religious community in Lebanon (at about 40% of the total population).the current lebanese government and prime minister were nominated by hezbollah and its allies,since they have the highest number of seats in lebanon's parliament.

hezbollah fought against 25 years of israeli occupation on lebanese soil.they are resisting occupation and defending their country to protect its sovereignty.otherwise lebanon could have being another palestine with jewish settlements on lebanese soil.hezbollah is no alqaeda.the lebanese people stand by hezbollah.hezbollah has a popular base in lebanon.in 2000,thanks to the resistance efforts of hezbollah,israeli troops withdrew from much of lebanon with the exception of the sheba farms.in 2006 israel launched a devasting war against lebanon after hezbollah captured israeli soldiers to free lebanese prisoners in israeli jails.hezbollah stood its ground and humiliated israeli forces in 34 days of standstill war.israel was forced to negotiate and conduct a prisoner exchange with hezbollah after the war and all lebanese prisoners were released from israeli jails.the war was useless for israel.

there is no source of shame or denial when it comes to hezbollah.get your facts straight and have some shame.you dont just bring up any topic even political ones because you think of it as a tool to get back at others or blackmail them.that does not make you right or your religion or prove your case.

@lagosShia

am really dissapointed at what I heard from you. I just read in your comments that Shia hold strictly to the example set by the Prophet (sa) by only fighting enemy combatants. and that shia is defending their country to protect its sovereignty
I am sorry we are not pursuing similar goals in life
I dont know why I have been discussing with you all these while
I dont like associating with violent organizations
I am proud to let you know that JW is a very peaceful organization that does not believe in what this present world has to offer, their perceptive power of reasoning has been trained to distinguish btw right and wrong, it will take you years to catch up with us, that is why your thoughts is so confused, you dont know why JW decisions are so diff. that is why we are no part of the world.
So young man keep pursuing things of the world, keep supporting Hesbolah, while as for me and my JW we shall pursue peace, we will never revenge on anybody because our God teaches LEAVE REVENGE FOR ME
I dont know why this tread meant for chistian topic is opened to a Muslim person who has millions of problems surrounding him
The whole world knows JW is the only non profit making organization. You dont see them advertise themselved on the TV, infact they are easy going pple. This Hesbolah man is still not hapy with our peaceful life now he wants to attack us.
One thing is sure, you can never kill the truth.

ibukun obi:

@lagosShia

am really dissapointed at what I heard from you. I just read in your comments that Shia hold strictly to the example set by the Prophet (sa) by only fighting enemy combatants. and that shia is defending their country to protect its sovereignty
I am sorry we are not pursuing similar goals in life
I dont know why I have been discussing with you all these while
I dont like associating with violent organizations
I am proud to let you know that JW is a very peaceful organization that does not believe in what this present world has to offer, their perceptive power of reasoning has been trained to distinguish btw right and wrong, it will take you years to catch up with us, that is why your thoughts is so confused, you dont know why JW decisions are so diff. that is why we are no part of the world.
So young man keep pursuing things of the world, keep supporting Hesbolah, while as for me and my JW we shall pursue peace, we will never revenge on anybody because our God teaches LEAVE REVENGE FOR ME
I dont know why this tread meant for chistian topic is opened to a Muslim person who has millions of problems surrounding him
The whole world knows JW is the only non profit making organization. You dont see them advertise themselved on the TV, infact they are easy going pple. This Hesbolah man is still not hapy with our peaceful life now he wants to attack us.
One thing is sure, you can never kill the truth.

@the above pretender

the fact is you do not have a choice but to be peaceful.if you try to "defend" yourselves or "revenge" or use any form of force to protect yourselves,the fact is you and your entire organization would be crused to ashes and mud.resistance,defense and protecting oneself is not meant for the weak.the weak must first build and prepare and have the right justification on when to protect themselves using force.

if your members become the majority in a country and they have to rule themselves,your watchtower organization will not allow the minority non-JWs to rule that country.in one way or the other,it will be JWs that will rule over that country with direct supervision from brooklyn.your politics is to keep to yourselves and govern yourselves the way you like and believe, and disassociate yourselves from others.your decision not to get involved in politics,is a political statement in itself.you have made that decision because you have chosen to segregate yourselves and dream of a planet where it feels only you exist.that is not the reality of life.i am sure jehovah's witnesses afterall use the passports issued by world governments headed by "satan the devil" to travel the world-over.so why dont you refuse all dealings with "satan the devil" and throw away international passports that are issued in the name of the president/head of states of each and every country around the world?the fact again is you take what suits you and you leave what does not suit you.that is the bitter reality for you to realize.then you will know that others too have the right to do what suits them and protect their interests.if you form a majority in a country and your governing body rule over that country,it will only take a sentence from the watchtower organization for JWs to use force and defend that country when attacked or in danger from the outside.the watchtower will only say:"it is now righteousness to fight and defend Jehovah's only soverign territory on earth and his blessed land";and you will see how witnesses even your females will carry Ak-47s!!!

if palestine or lebanon,was a majority JWs,and it was invaded and occupied by the jews,what would your organization do? you have two options:

1.) if you are small in number as you are today and weak to fight and defend yourselves,you can give up and wait for Jehovah to send an army of angels to fight for you and then boast that your religion is the truth.that anyways will not happen as we did not see that when hitler sent you to concentration camps for refusing to serve in his army.

2.) or gather help and build force to defend yourself and protect your lives and property.if you do not know,self-defense and resisting oppression is a fundamental human right that is a guaranty to humanity.if you deny that,it is because you believe only you have a right to life.others should simply disappear as your belief in the hereafter demonstrates that others will go into extinction and will not even resurrect.

i dont have problem with your life and i am not attacking you.this is a public forum where anyone can contribute his opinion and ideas.i dont hate JWs.i do have utmost respect for JWs among christian sects.you are by far better than the others.but when we are discussing and comparing beliefs,you should not feel beaten or defeated when others open up their mind and tell you plainly what they think.this is a public forum.even you wanted to preach to me.so i also have the right to tell you why i am not impressed or why i think mine is better and where yours is wrong and not justified or unreasonable.

Does God ordain the future? Does he know who would be saved and those that wont?

What Has Happened to Hellfire?
WHAT image does the word "hell" conjure up in your mind? Do you see hell as a literal place of fire and brimstone, of unending torment and anguish? Or is hell perhaps a symbolic description of a condition, a state?

For centuries, a fiery hell of excruciating torments has been envisioned by religious leaders of Christendom as the certain destiny for sinners. This idea is still popular among many other religious groups. "Christianity may have made hell a household word," says U.S.News & World Report, "but it doesn't hold a monopoly on the doctrine. The threat of painful retribution in the afterlife has counterparts in nearly every major world religion and in some minor ones as well." Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jains, and Taoists believe in a hell of one sort or another.

Hell, though, has acquired another image in modern thinking. "While the traditional infernal imagery still attracts a following," states the aforementioned magazine, "modern visions of eternal perdition as a particularly unpleasant solitary confinement are beginning to emerge, suggesting that hell may not be so hot after all."

The Jesuit journal La Civiltà Cattolica observed: "It is misleading . . . to think that God, by means of demons, inflicts fearful torments on the damned like that of fire." It added: "Hell exists, not as a place but as a state, a way of being of the person who suffers the pain of the deprivation of God." Pope John Paul II said in 1999: "Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy." As to the images of hell as a fiery place, he said: "They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God." Had the pope described hell in terms of "flames and a red-suited devil with a pitchfork," church historian Martin Marty said, "people wouldn't take it seriously."

Similar changes are taking place in other denominations. A report by the doctrine commission of the Church of England said: "Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is total non-being."

The catechism of the United States Episcopal Church defines hell as "eternal death in our rejection of God." A growing number of people, says U.S.News & World Report, are promoting the idea that "the end of the wicked is destruction, not eternal suffering. . . . [They] contend that those who ultimately reject God will simply be put out of existence in the 'consuming fire' of hell."

Although the modern-day trend is to get away from the fire and brimstone mentality, many continue to adhere to the belief that hell is a literal place of torment. "Scripture clearly speaks of hell as a physical place of fiery torment," says Albert Mohler of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, U.S.A. And the report The Nature of Hell, prepared by the Evangelical Alliance Commission, states: "Hell is a conscious experience of rejection and torment." It adds: "There are degrees of punishment and suffering in hell related to the severity of sins committed on earth."

A Brief History of Hellfire
WHEN did professed Christians adopt the belief in hellfire? Well after the time of Jesus Christ and his apostles. "The Apocalypse of Peter (2nd century C.E.) was the first [apocryphal] Christian work to describe the punishment and tortures of sinners in hell," states the French Encyclopædia Universalis.


Justin Martyr believed that hell was a fiery place
Among the early Church Fathers, however, there was disagreement over hell. Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Cyprian believed that hell was a fiery place. Origen and theologian Gregory of Nyssa thought of hell as a place of separation from God—of spiritual suffering. Augustine of Hippo, on the other hand, held that suffering in hell was both spiritual and sensory—a view that gained acceptance. "By the fifth century the stern doctrine that sinners will have no second chance after this life and that the fire which will devour them will never be extinguished was everywhere paramount," wrote Professor J.N.D. Kelly.


Augustine of Hippo taught that suffering in hell was spiritual and physical
In the 16th century, such Protestant reformers as Martin Luther and John Calvin understood the fiery torment of hell to be figurative of spending eternity separated from God. However, the idea of hell as a place of torment returned in the following two centuries. Protestant preacher Jonathan Edwards used to strike fear in the hearts of 18th-century Colonial Americans with graphic portrayals of hell.

Shortly thereafter, though, the flames of hell began to flicker and fade. "The 20th century was nearly the death of hell," states U.S.News & World Report.

is there going to be another subject for us to discuss or should i forget about this thread?

any JW is welcome to throw a subject of discussion at me.