wegevv:


Saying you don't know he existed is different to saying you don't believe he existed. I believe we have made some progress lol ❤️

Then I need to lecture you on how beliefs and knowledge works.
People like me who rely on knowledge don't believe anything, we accept the evidence before us. It's called empiricism.

I don't believe Jesus existed, I don't disbelieve either. I just don't know if he did or not based on the available evidence. The difference is that, I don't rely on belief to accept his existence like you, I rely on knowledge. (two different things).

I don't have to believe that if I jump from a the 50 storey building that I will die or at least I will be severely injured, I know it. It is why I won't do it, you also don't have to believe it because you will accept it by knowledge.

So I don't accept that Jesus ever existed because there no knowledge of it that proves that, this doesn't also mean that I outrightly reject it.

Workch:
Someone cannot follow suhc reasoning when we can still trace Isaac newton's lineage.

The legacies of Isaac newton are far more provable than that of Jesus. His works are a living fossil of his existence. Aside from the bible, which is a claim, no one can really point to any evidence that Jesus walked on this planet

We have gone from "Jesus never existed because there is no evidence" to "Aside from the bible".

But despite moving the goal post, majority of scholars in this area do point to evidence outside the bible that Jesus existed. A quick google will tell you that.

It is, I have to see evidence before I believe it. That's logic

PS: pretty sure your believe that Isaac Newton did exist is based on your reliance on authority on the matter not any evidence you have seen lol

wegevv:


We have gone from "Jesus never existed because there is no evidence" to "Aside from the bible".

But despite moving the goal post, majority of scholars in this area do point to evidence outside the bible that Jesus existed. A quick google will tell you that.

my apologies if I infer that Jesus never existed.
But I have been making it clear that "there's no evidence that he did"
It doesn't mean that he didn't, it also does mean that he did.
I just won't accept your claim that he did until I see evidence for that.
I won't also accept the claim of anyone who say he didn't

PS: pretty sure your believe that Isaac Newton did exist is based on your reliance on authority on the matter not any evidence you have seen lol

I don't believe, I can see evidence that he existed.

Mind if I show you some and you show me that of Jesus? Deal?

wegevv:


We have gone from "Jesus never existed because there is no evidence" to "Aside from the bible".

But despite moving the goal post, majority of scholars in this area do point to evidence outside the bible that Jesus existed. A quick google will tell you that.



PS: pretty sure your believe that Isaac Newton did exist is based on your reliance on authority on the matter not any evidence you have seen lol

Again, even if Isaac newton didn't exist, it's till not evidence that Jesus existed.

The existence of Isaac is mutually exclusive to that of Jesus. We still need evidence separately to prove the existence of Jesus Christ

Workch:
like I said, I don't think there's enough evidence to conclude that a personality called Christ ever existed, I don't want to dwell on that as that's a claim that shapes the belief system of Christians.
But if you talk about his attributes and character as described by the Bible, it's wirht emulating.

You can make any conclusion to me on the basis of christ existence, there's no evidence such a person exist.

There are a lot of evidences of His existence. I have argued with some people that claim that there is no God. If the claim is true, why does He have many messagers and His history meanders through all civilizations?
Even now, as Moses, Paul, Ezekiel had encounters with Jesus, many still have same today. After an encounter, you don't doubt. The outcome of such encounters made people to believe in them.


Jesus is not only a historical person, He is also a contemporary person. All other Gods speak only by oracles, Jesus is different.

However, you don't compel His encounters. He gives to whoever at His discretion.

So, Jesus exists.

MightySparrow:


There are a lot of evidences of His existence. I have argued with some people that claim that there is no God. If the claim is true, why does He have many messagers and His history meanders through all civilizations?
Even now, as Moses, Paul, Ezekiel had encounters with Jesus, many still have same today. After an encounter, you don't doubt. The outcome of such encounters made people to believe in them.


Jesus is not only a historical person, He is also a contemporary person. All other Gods speak only by oracles, Jesus is different.

However, you don't compel His encounters. He gives to whoever at His discretion.

So, Jesus exists.

Can you show me one evidence presented by any of your historians that Jesus Christ walked on this planet and let's end this long argument?

I need just one

MightySparrow:


There are a lot of evidences of His existence. I have argued with some people that claim that there is no God. If the claim is true, why does He have many messagers and His history meanders through all civilizations?
Even now, as Moses, Paul, Ezekiel had encounters with Jesus, many still have same today. After an encounter, you don't doubt. The outcome of such encounters made people to believe in them.


Jesus is not only a historical person, He is also a contemporary person. All other Gods speak only by oracles, Jesus is different.

However, you don't compel His encounters. He gives to whoever at His discretion.

So, Jesus exists.

going by your argument, we can also argue for the existence of Robin hood and King Arthur as historical figures. Of course, you and I know that there are no evidence that they existed

Workch:
Again, even if Isaac newton didn't exist, it's till not evidence that Jesus existed.

The existence of Isaac is mutually exclusive to that of Jesus. We still need evidence separately to prove the existence of Jesus Christ

Again I obviously accept that Newton existed. My arguments are to show that based on your standard one could easily argue that Isaac Newton didn't exist because there is no empirical evidence. And he only died a couple hundred years ago.

But the standard that most scholars use for historical figures is different. The further back you go the harder it is but still virtually all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed because there is enough written about them from various sources.

Based on your standard no one can prove that any historical figure from over a thousand years ago existed lol.

Workch:
going by your argument, we can also argue for the existence of Robin hood and King Arthur as historical figures. Of course, you and I know that there are no evidence that they existed

Historical scholars do not have consensus on Robin Hood even though he was thought to exists after Jesus. That's how strong the literature evidence is for historical figures like Jesus and Alexander the Great who existed much earlier

wegevv:


Again I obviously accept that Newton existed. My arguments are to show that based on your standard one could easily argue that Isaac Newton didn't exist because there is no empirical evidence. And he only died a couple hundred years ago.

But the standard that most scholars use for historical figures is different. The further back you go the harder it is but still virtually all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed because there is enough written about them from various sources.

Based on your standard no one can prove that any historical figure from over a thousand years ago existed lol.

These are my standards.

1. There are manuscripts actually written and Signed by Isaac Newton.
2. The family of Isaac Newton are still in England and they even talk to BBC. Their family house still exist and even where Isaac newton resided.
3. There are actually descriptions of what Isaac newton looks like.
4. There are proven records of Isaac newton's contributions in science in terms of inventions.
5. There are archeological remnant of Isaac Newton.

Show me any of these for Jesus Christ and I will agree with you are not deliberately creating another argument in order not avoid presenting evidence for Jesus.

wegevv:


Historical scholars do not have consensus on Robin Hood even though he was thought to exists after Jesus. That's how strong the literature evidence is for historical figures like Jesus and Alexander the Great who existed much earlier

So your only argument is a fallacy of appealing to authority?
That fallacy is what actually seperate Jesus from Robin Hood, not actual evidence

wegevv:


Historical scholars do not have consensus on Robin Hood even though he was thought to exists after Jesus. That's how strong the literature evidence is for historical figures like Jesus and Alexander the Great who existed much earlier

I'm still trying to find an actual evidence for Jesus. You should try as well

Workch:
These are my standards.

1. There are manuscripts actually written and Signed by Isaac Newton.
2. The family of Isaac Newton are still in England and they even talk to BBC. There family house still exist and even where Isaac newton resided.
3. There are actually descriptionsof what Isaac newton looks like.
4. There are proven records of Isaac newton's contributions in science in terms of inventions.
5. There are archeological remnant of Isaac Newton.

Show me any of these for Jesus Christ and I will agree with you are not deliberately creating another argument in order not avoid presenting evidence for Jesus.

I prefer the standards of the virtually all the world class scholars that have studied it deeply. Again it's good to be on the side of authority for a change lol

Workch:
I'm still trying to find an actual evidence for Jesus. You should try as well

I've previously admitted I'm a zombie. Just don't see the logical consistency in looking for the type of evidence that no one expects to exist for historical figures of a certain time lol

Workch:
So your only argument is a fallacy of appealing to authority?
That fallacy is what actually seperate Jesus from Robin Hood, not actual evidence

There's no evidence it is a fallacy lol

You refuse to accept that any historical figures from a certain time exists based on your standards. That is fine my bro. Free country

wegevv:


I've previously admitted I'm a zombie. Just don't see the logical consistency in looking for the type of evidence that no one expects to exist for historical figures of a certain time lol

I'm not Saying he didn't exist it not. I'm just saying that there is no evidence.
Don't be unsecured, I'm not trying to make you unbelieve it.

The only way anyone can accept the existence of Jesus Christ is on the basis of Belief, noot evidence because there is none that he did. That's my point l, even the so called scholars don't have evidence

wegevv:


There's no evidence it is a fallacy lol

You refuse to accept that any historical figures from a certain time exists based on your standards. That is fine my bro. Free country

But even this so called scholars accept that they don't have evidence for it but agree based on probability.

I ca share you links for you to read about it

Workch:
I'm not Saying he didn't exist it not. I'm just saying that there is no evidence.
Don't be unsecured, I'm not trying to make you unbelieve it.

The only way anyone can accept the existence of Jesus Christ is on the basis of Belief, noot evidence because there is none that he did. That's my point l, even the so called scholars don't have evidence

It's not true. Virtually all scholars believe he existed based on research not faith

wegevv:


There's no evidence it is a fallacy lol

You refuse to accept that any historical figures from a certain time exists based on your standards. That is fine my bro. Free country

These are your scholars, I think I share their sentiment as well.
No evidence but it doesn't mean he didn't exist it he did exist.

Nothing to point to to be sure

wegevv:


It's not true. Virtually all scholars believe he existed based on research not faith

What research?
They don't have evidence.

Where are the evidence that Jesus existed found by your scholars?

Workch:
These are your scholars, I think I share their sentiment as well.
No evidence but it doesn't mean he didn't exist it he did exist.

Nothing to point to to be sure

The general public is mostly anti-christian. That is not news. Virtually all scholars who have done research say he existed

wegevv:


The general public is mostly anti-christian. That is not news. Virtually all scholars who have done research say he existed

I'm not saying that he didn't exist or he did, There just no evidence for it. You need to agree that there's no evidence for his existence

wegevv:


The general public is mostly anti-christian. That is not news. Virtually all scholars who have done research say he existed

I will be glad if I see their findings.

Workch:
I'm not saying that he didn't exist or he did, There just no evidence for it. You need to agree that there's no evidence for his existence

There is evidence he existed. Just not the type you're looking for lol. According to you there is no evidence for anyone that existed 2000 years ago actually existed.

There is evidence in literature that Jesus existed. Mostly non-religious people have researched this and have consensus. But I guess it is all just one big conspiracy.

wegevv:


There is evidence he existed. Just not the type you're looking for lol. According to you there is no evidence for anyone that existed 2000 years ago actually existed.

There is evidence in literature that Jesus existed. Mostly non-religious people have researched this and have consensus. But I guess it is all just one big conspiracy.

Show me the evidence, why is it difficult to show me?

Workch:
Show me the evidence, why is it difficult to show me?

Type “did Jesus exist” on google and go from there my friend. It’s not some hidden secret ❤️

wegevv:


Type “did Jesus exist” on google and go from there my friend. It’s not some hidden secret ❤️

scholars of antiquity?
Is that evidence?
What evidence did the scholars of antiquity provide?

wegevv:


Type “did Jesus exist” on google and go from there my friend. It’s not some hidden secret ❤️

who are scholars of antiquity?

Workch:
who are scholars of antiquity?

scholar: a specialist in a particular branch of study, especially the humanities.

antiquity: the ancient past, especially the period of classical and other human civilizations before the Middle Ages.

wegevv:


scholar: a specialist in a particular branch of study, especially the humanities.

antiquity: the ancient past, especially the period of classical and other human civilizations before the Middle Ages.

of antiquity.
What's antiquity?

Workch:
of antiquity.
What's antiquity?

Lol I posted it there

Here again for you ❤️

antiquity: the ancient past, especially the period of classical and other human civilizations before the Middle Ages.

wegevv:


Lol I posted it there

Here again for you ❤️

antiquity: the ancient past, especially the period of classical and other human civilizations before the Middle Ages.

lol, those are the people you are relying on?

People who thought earth is flat