Pataki: Interesting to see how this discussion has gone thus far.
@ coogar,
You are obviously seeing the obvious, but obviously ignoring the fact. Arsenal DOES NOT have the financial strength on a long term basis to keep players on the ridiculous salary structures that ManU, ManCity, Chelsea pay some of their overrated players. This is the main trigger to which these players leave for other clubs. It has nothing to do with your so-called wack Wenger's man-management. If you choose not to accept that fact, fine.

Pataki:

What are these man-management skills you would have required of Arsene/Arsenal to have done in this case? Song did not refute the fact he wanted a change to his contract and salary. A player who was not satisfied with his contract, and kept on insisting for a change to his contract over and over again, is certainly bound to become unruly and display acts of indiscipline either on the field or off-the field.

When you talk of man-management skills, where do you place the likes of ManCity who have the likes of Balotelli and Tevez? If Arsenal had those kind of players in their team, would you also rate Wenger to have wack man-management skills? The likes of Tevez would have personally walked away from ManCity had it not been for the ridiculous salary wage he is on.

Let us be real here - money talks in modern day football. Rather unfortunately, it has become ridiculous these days.

coogar:

officer pataki, don't let wenger pull the wool over your eyes that arsenal don't have the financial clout to pay world class wages....kindly peruse this piece below and see where arsenal rank in europe in terms of revenue/income....

http://swissramble..co.uk/2012/02/arsenals-mystery-dance.html?m=1

On the face of it, Arsenal do not have a revenue problem, as they enjoy the fifth highest revenue in Europe according to the Deloitte Money League. In England, it is only surpassed by Manchester United’s £331 million and is way ahead of Liverpool £184 million, Tottenham £164 million and Manchester City £153 million.

However, the problem is that the gap to the top four clubs is widening, though that is partly due to exchange rate movements. The Spanish giants, Real Madrid and Barcelona, generate around £200 million more than Arsenal at £433 million and £407 million respectively. Similarly, Manchester United earn over £100 million more with £331 million, while Bayern Munich’s revenue of £290 million is a handy £60 million higher.

Eyebrows were further raised when the club proudly announced a thumping great profit of £49.5m for the interim accounts (covering the six months up to 30 November 2011), which was £55.6 million better than the £6.1 million loss reported a year ago, though all of the improvement was effectively due to the significantly higher profit on player sales, which increased by £59 million from £4 million to £63 million (primarily Fàbregas, Nasri and Gaël Clichy).

Although turnover from football was up an impressive 16% (or £16 million) from £98 million to £114 million, this growth was eaten up by an increase in squad investment with wages up £8 million and player amortisation £7 million higher.

Kay-Dee:


[size=14pt] Apart from the Cologne game where he wasn't at his best, which could have been for any other reason, I didn't notice any act of on-field indiscipline displayed by Song during the past season when he was supposedly asking for a new contract, rather he played his heart out from my POV. He didn't refuse to play for the club like Tevez did or threaten to score an OG like Gallas. He had more than a year to run and Arsenal couldn't possibly have been in the 1-year-to-go hostage situation.
Apart from the monetary aspect Balotelli and Tevez have been well managed and their heads have calmed down a bit, besides, Song's reported indiscipline was not at the level displayed by those two.
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Pataki:
Thanks for the weblink, you just shot yourself in the foot with that link you displayed. Taking quotes from the article, would do further justice to my point of view. Here goes:

I further maintain my point, we do not have the financial capacity to compete with the ridiculous salary wages of some of these clubs. According to sources, Cazorla is the only Arsenal player on a £120,000 weekly salary pay. And that is the highest Arsenal can go for.

coogar:

you are the one shooting yourself in the foot! all the clubs mentioned in that excerpt you cut out are all richer than arsenal so we can't raise eyebrows that madrid, barcelona or man utd spend more than arsenal - but in a situation where tottenham, liverpool, newcastle and sunderland, etc all have a higher nett spend than arsenal is a disgrace!!!



how can that be the highest arsenal can go? do you really believe in this? don't be surprised when arsenal declare another profit of £60m in their yearly statement of account after lying to the fans during the transfer window that there's no money in the bank! look at arsenal's rank on the table and compare it to the quality of players they tend to attract - its a total mismatch! as the article said, arsenal don't have a revenue problem but some blood sucking executives at the board would rather pocket the income than invest on world class players!

swiss rambler said:
There are clearly issues with Arsenal’s equitable wage structure, which means that the best players like Robin Van Persie are not particularly well remunerated (by modern standards), while fringe players like Abou Diaby, Marouane Chamakh and Manuel Almunia are handsomely rewarded for their efforts. This was epitomised recently by Johan Djourou’s new £50,000 a week contract, which seemed more in recognition of his frequent interviews with Arsenal.com than his defensive ability.

Not only does this policy reduce the money available to attract world-class players, but it also makes it difficult to move on under-performers, hence loans for Bendtner and Denilson. While there is some logic in giving youngsters good contracts, as it prevents other clubs from snapping them up for free, it is questionable whether this has worked out for Arsenal, given the relatively small number of success stories. My hope would be that one of Arsenal’s smart executives is conducting a review of whether this approach is the most appropriate in 2012.

Pataki:

LOL. You are really shooting yourself in foot man!

1. You are the person who mentioned Arsenal is no 4 richest club in Europe. The article stated that Arsenal is no 5. My earlier argument had been that we cannot compete with the likes of ManCity, ManU and Chelsea in terms of ridiculous salary structures. You thereafter went ahead to cite that article, and I proved my point further with the same article cited. Now, in trying to prove your point, you refer to the likes Tottenham, Liverpool, Newcastle and Sunderland. Pleaseeeeeee, all these clubs CONTINUALLY look at us higher up on the table even with some of the ridiculous salary payments that they have! They are a bunch of disgrace if they think paying ridiculous wages would ensure they rise to the quality and standard that Arsenal projects!

2. Abou Diaby is a fringe player? Shows the value of the article you are even citing!!!

debosky:

Man management skills or £250k per week?

Money talks my friend! If Wenger could pay wages like that, most of those players (starting from the car swerving Ca$hley) would have reconsidered leaving.

I don’t think any player likes to be substitute. I can’t say I like to be on the bench. If I’m not in a good mood I don’t show it to my teammates nor to the coach, I keep that for myself. Everyone likes to be playing big minutes during the season. I’ve always said that I am in the best team in the world, I came here to compete, learn and have fun, not to rack my brain. I’m happy to be a part of that team, if the coach tells me that I have to leave the club, I’ll leave, but I’ll fight for my position. I’ll continue to work hard in order to get a starting position regularly. I came to Barça in order to end my career here. I feel as good as I ever have. In the training sessions I come before anyone else and leave after everyone. I try to be as friendly as possible,in the good and in the bad times. I’m very happy with myself, happy to be playing football. I’m in great shape physically, I just lost 4kg (8.8 lb).

Regarding last game against Valencia, Cesc says he didn’t heard the boos and insists he is happy with his performance.

I still think I did a good job. I felt very comfortable playing alongside Xavi, Messi and Song. I came home happy after the game. Of course, I had a great chance to score a goal. I wish I would have made it but I want to remain positive. I was surprised when I got aware of it [the boos], I didn’t notice it during the game to be honest. The coach knows what I can bring on the pitch. In the 3 positions I can play I’m in competition with the 3 best in the world.

proudly9ja: I hate to be the one to bring this piece of info to you guys but guess who's training with our team?

Silvestre!!! And he's available too

Hopefully, he's ONLY training with the team. Wenger don't get ideas o!

proudly9ja: I hate to be the one to bring this piece of info to you guys but guess who's training with our team?

Silvestre!!! And he's available too

Hopefully, he's ONLY training with the team. Wenger don't get ideas o!

4llerbuntu: Coogar, acording to your links at best arsenal made a profit of 60 million BECAUSE OF INCOME FROM PLAYER SALES.

without selling those players how much would this profit be?

now if arsenal were to pay these players man city type wages, how many of them would be earning close to 10 million PA?

if for example we paid van persie 250, song 150, walcott 120, cazorla 120, koscielny 130, sagna 120, et etc etc etc do you know that the wages of the first eleven would be more than the present overall wage bill for 30 squad players and youth teams?

add the wages of the remaining players.

are you now suggesting that arsenal should borrow money annually to pay wages? at least you can see the difference in income with say manutd. there is no oil well to spend from.

where also will the money to buy players come from since we have spent the entire profits, and even borrowed money to pay wages, borrow more money? where will the money to repay the loans come from?

i know you are taking the piss sha.

4llerbuntu: fact is, is even if the board and owners give up their profits and plough it into wages, arsenal still cannot pay players 250k p/w

the koko is the club needs to step up the revenue generation drastically. that is the crux of the problem. in the absence of a sugar daddy, that is the next step.

as for comparisons with clubs like tottenham, i hope you also realize those clubs are not repaying loans for their stadiums, dont have as much expenses as arsenal, do not have facilities as big and extensive as arsenal, do not have a setup as big as arsenal.

you keep citing gate takings, i guess you are unaware that a percentage of the gate takings go directly into the loans servicing? that stadium that you get the takings from will not get maintained?

i don't get, do you think the only thing the club spends money on is kicking football? are you aware of the medical project arsenal built in the last 4 years? the training facilities? the youth setup? the coaching, the scouts etc etc etc?your club has just started renovating carrington btw. its not free

arsenal has locked in commercial deals that are seriously cramping the club, but thats the price for the shiny new stadium and those gate takings you cite. even common shirt deals, the top 6 clubs in the prem earn more than arsenal from short deals

coogar: like the article said, arsenal wrongly renumerate their players. mediocre players get overpaid and the top quality players get underpaid

the difference between the wage bill of arsenal and man utd is negligible

yet, united can boast of top quality players like rooney, berbatov, young, valencia, vidic, rio, de gea, etc while arsenal could only boast of van persie!!!!

ritchboy:
How much is Welbeck on now? I'm sure Bendtner is a better footballer!

25-35m negligible?

coogar:

welbeck is a better footballer than bendtner - i can prove it!

its much lower than that - the united wage bill included winning bonus, etc....the difference is not up to 15 million! united have won 4 league titles, 1 champs league, 3 champs league finals and various domestic cups in the last 7 yrs. are you saying a miserable £15m is the difference between united's success and arsenal's drought? really?

ritchboy:
Go ahead!

Stop lying Coogar, it's more than 15m.

Of course you also have to consider the fact United have smashed Arsenal's record transfer fee like 15 times in that period alone.

coogar:

transfer fees have nothing to do with wage bill. the selling club gets the transfer fees, the player get the wages! i reiterate, why is the difference between the wage bill of both clubs negligible and united have more quality in their squad than arsenal?

coogar:
its much lower than that - the united wage bill included winning bonus, etc....the difference is not up to 15 million! united have won 4 league titles, 1 champs league, 3 champs league finals and various domestic cups in the last 7 yrs. are you saying a miserable £15m is the difference between united's success and arsenal's drought? really?

debosky:
This is poppycock - if the wage bill difference is £35m - that is the equivalent of 3 Rooneys or 3 Ronaldos being paid £250k, or 6 Nasris being paid £120k.

Tell me what percentage of Utd's wage bill is winning bonus and don't make any silly reductions to support your weak argument. Who told you that Arsenal's contracts don't have bonuses for CL qualification/top 4 finish?

Besides, United is not the only club in existence - Citeh and Chelski are also spending ridiculous amounts on wages as well, which DIRECTLY weaken Arsenal's squad as reflected by the number of ex Arsenal players at Citeh - Clichy, Nasri, Adebayor (recently left) and Kolo Toure. That is nearly half a first team side there.

coogar:

debosky, the wage bill difference is not £35m - don't pluck out stats from your rectum to sound relevant! even when the difference was £3m in 2009, united were winning back to back titles and appearing in the finals of the champions league!!!

if the arsenal players were well renumerated, they wouldn't need to go elsewhere to collect more money. you make it sound like city have always had money to spend. they didn't start spending ridiculous money until january 2010. they missed the entire transfer window in the summer of 2009 cos the takeover of the abu dhabi was on the last day and they could only sign robinho! where were arsenal between 2005-2009?

proudly9ja: I hate to be the one to bring this piece of info to you guys but guess who's training with our team?

Silvestre!!! And he's available too

Hopefully, he's ONLY training with the team. Wenger don't get ideas o!

debosky:
I never said the wage bill difference was £35m, I said if it was £35m.

In 2010/11, the difference was £29m (3 Ronaldos), in 2009/10 it was £21m (2+ Ronaldos), in 2008/09 it was £19m (2 Ronaldos).

Do the words Chelsea or building-a-stadium-with-reduced-funds-for-transfer mean anything to you? Even in that period, we could have won the CL final if not for the sending off of Lehmann.

The fact is, we CANNOT remunerate players with an extra £20m every season the way United do - why? Because our turnover is smaller.

coogar:
turnover is smaller? the players you sold @ a profit, did your manager reinvest the proceeds or kept it for himself and the members of the board? wenger was earning £2m more than fergie per annum with nothing to show for it.