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Re: The NBA Begins by Mynd44: 10:24am On Dec 12, 2016
nairamaniac:
personal-opinion, LeBron has since surpassed kobe. He doesn't need more rings to prove this. LeBron is top5 ever, kobe would barely make top10.
*Chuckles*
Re: The NBA Begins by lolawilliams(f): 10:30am On Dec 12, 2016
frenchwine:

No hating , LeBron James is up there with MJ, Pippen, Wilt Chamberlain and Abduljabbar, he is a better all round player than each and everyone of them, especially considering the difference in intensity and tactical awareness between then and now. He however needs at least two more rings to get up there as the greatest of all time.
However I think it would be very biased to say GSW aren't a great team, dah, they're one of the most complete team of the past decade. Or what do you call a team that's already coughing up Four all-stars? The regular season is just a quarter down, the ring is the only thing they're playing for and playoffs intensity would show up with time

Rings are a huge prerequisite for GOAT though.. Not a coincidence that like players in the top 10 of all time has multiple rings.

I wont say youre wrong but i think the diff btw a guy that has 3 rings vs 6 isn't what differentiates the GOAT, it's much more than that. For example. MJ has 6rings and 6finals mvp and he was the playmaker of it all then take a look at Roberr Horry who had 7rings and infact was a clutch player.. This is direct from his wikipedia page:

Horry collected his seventh championship as a member of the Spurs in 2007.[15] He is one of only nine players to have won seven or more championships in the NBA, and the only one who did not play on the 1960s Celtics. Robert Horry was one of only four players to have won back-to-back NBA championships with two different teams as of 2007.[16] In 2005, he joined John Salley as the only players to win NBA rings with three different teams. He was the all-time leader in playoff games played with 244, having surpassed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar during the 2008 playoffs.[17]
Horry holds the record for three-pointers all-time in the NBA Finals with 53, having eclipsed Michael Jordan's previous record of 42. He set the NBA Playoffs record for most three-point field goals made in a game without a miss (7) against the Utah Jazz in Game 2 of the 1997 Western Conference Semifinals. Horry has regular season career averages of 7.2 points, 4.9 rebounds and 2.2 assists per game.
Horry and Steve Kerr, another famous reserve player and clutch shooter, alternated NBA Championships for a decade, and combined to win 12 championships over a 14-year period. Either Kerr or Horry was on the roster of an NBA Finals team from the 1993-94 season through the 2002-03 season, with every one resulting in a victory. Horry's teams were victorious in the NBA Finals in 1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005 and 2007, while Kerr's teams were winners in the NBA Finals in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2003. Each won three titles playing for Phil Jackson-coached teams (Kerr with the Chicago Bulls, Horry with the Los Angeles Lakers), and two with the San Antonio Spurs.

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Re: The NBA Begins by redarrr(m): 10:33am On Dec 12, 2016
nairamaniac:
personal-opinion, LeBron has since surpassed kobe. He doesn't need more rings to prove this. LeBron is top5 ever, kobe would barely make top10.

first of all,both kobe nd lebron re great players in d nba.winning d ring also determine nd also kobe has scored higher point in a match than lebron
Re: The NBA Begins by lolawilliams(f): 10:40am On Dec 12, 2016
redarrr:


first of all,both kobe nd lebron re great players in d nba.winning d ring also determine nd also kobe has scored higher point in a match than lebron

None of this makes Kobe better than LeBron
Re: The NBA Begins by lolawilliams(f): 10:45am On Dec 12, 2016
nairamaniac:
personal-opinion, LeBron has since surpassed kobe. He doesn't need more rings to prove this. LeBron is top5 ever, kobe would barely make top10.

Personal opinion. kobe would barely make top 10.

MJ
Kareem
Larry Bird
Shaq
Lebron
Duncan
Magic johnson
Bill russell
Chamberlain
Olajuwon
11- Kobe
grin
Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 11:12am On Dec 12, 2016
lolawilliams:


LeBron is the best baller in the NBA right now. MJ was and nothing can change that.. Can you prove any of this wrong?

1- Right before or during his Ring in the 90's. There were like 6 new teams that were added to the league and we all know that new teams rarely win matches due to the fact that the team has to fill their teans with complete new players that has never play prof sport before. I stand to be corrected, Grizzles;Raptors,Heats,Timberwolves, Hornets, Magic were all new teams during MJ's era. Btw 1988-1996, 6 teams were added to the league and MJ won his ring brw 91-98 which made it abit easier


2- A40, You said he didn't really play in a system that emphasized on P.G and Point forward play. Mj is a ball hog, He averaged about 5assists per game in hos career, he was a huge ball hog, often taking as many as 30 shots a game in the 86-87 season alone.. more reason y he couldnt make it out of the first round of the playoffs his first three seasons in the league.


3- We keep saying LeBron had to team up with Wade and Bosh to get his ring, Lets not forget that MJ averaged 37.5 points in his third year in the league which is one of the highest point total average of all time out of all NBA players. In his first 3years in the league, the Bulls made it to the Playoffs and despite averaging 43 PPG in the 1986 playoffs, as well as incredibly high scoring numbers in 1985 and 1987, he still couldnt make it out. So i can as well say that MJ teamed up with Pippen to gt his rings. Yes Who wouldnt win with a person considered one of the grestest defender in the league


Lolawilliams, I stand completely with A40 on this one. The effect of those new teams added to the league didn't have so much impact on how easily it was for Jordan. After all, he individually destroyed elite teams like the knicks, Cleveland cavs, Larry bird's Celtics year in, year out in the eastern conference from 86 to 91. Those teams were well built and had multiple allstars in them.
Orlando magic was formed sometime 1990. 92, they had the first pick in Shaq. By 95 they got to NBA finals. I think they had the first seed. The following year, 96, they met Jordan in the finals, Jordan led the bulls to sweep them in 4games.
Not just that, the bulls pushed Orlando to the second best team in the East in his 1st complete season after his hiatus.

In the second point, I agree with A40 even more, the bulls in the early years of Jordan had no one for him to pass to, or pile up assist numbers off their scoring. The bulls were really really messed up. In fact, they had no business making the playoffs in Jordan's early years. Let's be frank, scoring is way way more difficult than creating opportunities. Before Jordan, I don't think any guard had won the scoring title in the history of the league. From his 3rd year, he won it like 7 consecutive times. What more can you ask for?
I actually think LeBron and Jordan had 2different mentalities when it comes to "winning with team mates".
LeBron knows he can't do it alone. He needs to give his team mates touches, so they get in rhythm to start scoring.
Jordan never really cared. He knows if his team mates are cold, he could do it alone with minimal help from them. But not as much as LeBron needs.
Jordan being a ball hog, shouldn't count against him. He was taking as many as 30shots a game, but yet was 40% efficient. With less than 5 turnovers per game. Let's also consider the fact he won most if those balls off the opposing teams by virtue of steals, blocks and rebounds.

Lastly, you cannot compare the impact pippen had as Jordan's team-mate to what wade and bosh had as lebron's team mate.
Wade and bosh added to LeBron faaaaar outweighs pippen to Jordan.
Take it this way, pippen was Jordan's wingman, but he wasn't really a scorer. Imagine having your second best scorer averaging 17 to 20 points but yet the bulls were at worst, 2nd to 3rd best scoring team in the league for several years, just because of what Jordan contributed to the scoring table. If you say pippen's defensive contribution, I can agree with you. But not in terms of his scoring.
The bulls offence was primarily due to 2factors;
1)Jordan
2)Phil Jackson, adopting Ted winter's Triangle.
And this style of offence doesn't require any player being a facilitator, or pure-point-guard or point-forward as A40 said.

To answer your last question.
" Who wouldnt win with a person considered one of the grestest defender in the league''.

A lot of players didn't win with the most defensive players on their teams. I'm talking of players that could score like hell. David Robinson once had Dennis rodman on his team. David Robinson to me shd be one of the best scoring centres ever. That particular year 95, San antonio had the best record in the West. Dennis rodman was all defensive first team. Also had the highest rebounds. Both David Robinson and Dennis rodman were all defensive first team.
But what happened when they met the rockets, rockets were 6th seeded that year. The rockets out played them by out scoring them.
What I'm trying to say is "Jordan's offence trumps both Lebron's assist impact and pippen's defensive impact with very very wide margins".

3 Likes

Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 11:15am On Dec 12, 2016
lolawilliams:


Personal opinion. kobe would barely make top 10.

MJ
Kareem
Larry Bird
Shaq
Lebron
Duncan
Magic johnson
Bill russell
Chamberlain
Olajuwon
11- Kobe
grin

Walai, you are very much on point. Espn knows more than most of us. People just overate kobe cause he's the closest clone to Jordan. Take nothing away from him. But wdnt put him in top 5 for sure.
Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 11:35am On Dec 12, 2016
redarrr:


first of all,both kobe nd lebron re great players in d nba.winning d ring also determine nd also kobe has scored higher point in a match than lebron

Like lolawilliams said "None of this makes Kobe better than LeBron".

But if you disagree with us, then klay Thomson should be Top 5 greatest shooting guards in history of the game. Cause I don't think there's been up to 5 shooting guards that have made 60points.

Besides kobe didn't lead the lakers when he won his first 3titles. Both kobe and lebron came into the league from High school. Within 2 seasons, lebron was all 2nd team. Kobe had to wait like 5years to be considered in an all nba team.
Lebron led a weak - ass Cleveland to NBA finals within 5 seasons at the age of 22.
We are all forgetting that a fully healthy kobe and the lakers got swept after winning it back to back.

No comparison, kobe is only ahead of lebron in terms of who's closer to Jordan's style of game, position and physic.
Lebron surpassed kobe since 2011 and it stayed that way till he retired 2016.

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Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 11:53am On Dec 12, 2016
Mynd44:

*Chuckles*
it may be easy to chuckle at me. But how easy would it be to chuckle at ESPN.?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank1/all-nbarank-1

It took years for them to compile that list. Analysts, sports writers and historians put that together. Would be difficult to argue against them.
Re: The NBA Begins by Mynd44: 11:58am On Dec 12, 2016
nairamaniac:
it may be easy to chuckle at me. But how easy would it be to chuckle at ESPN.?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank1/all-nbarank-1

It took years for them to compile that list. Analysts, sports writers and historians put that together. Would be difficult to argue against them.
Okay.
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 12:18pm On Dec 12, 2016
Agreed Jordan was a phenomenon but LeBron is still on his upward curve with no sign of tanking. Going by the ESPN rankings in which LeBron sits pretty at No. 3, say, what would be our take 4-5yrs from now when LeBron would have shattered whatever record is still left of him to attain, and perhaps added 1-2 more rings?
LeBron isn't my man crush, not for once but we can't but admire and appreciate his contributions to the game.
Re: The NBA Begins by SmooshCHN: 12:54pm On Dec 12, 2016
LeBron 5th and Kobe 11th?? lipsrsealed
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:20pm On Dec 12, 2016
lolawilliams:


LeBron is the best baller in the NBA right now. MJ was and nothing can change that.. Can you prove any of this wrong?

1- Right before or during his Ring in the 90's. There were like 6 new teams that were added to the league and we all know that new teams rarely win matches due to the fact that the team has to fill their teans with complete new players that has never play prof sport before. I stand to be corrected, Grizzles;Raptors,Heats,Timberwolves, Hornets, Magic were all new teams during MJ's era. Btw 1988-1996, 6 teams were added to the league and MJ won his ring brw 91-98 which made it abit easier


2- A40, You said he didn't really play in a system that emphasized on P.G and Point forward play. Mj is a ball hog, He averaged about 5assists per game in hos career, he was a huge ball hog, often taking as many as 30 shots a game in the 86-87 season alone.. more reason y he couldnt make it out of the first round of the playoffs his first three seasons in the league.


3- We keep saying LeBron had to team up with Wade and Bosh to get his ring, Lets not forget that MJ averaged 37.5 points in his third year in the league which is one of the highest point total average of all time out of all NBA players. In his first 3years in the league, the Bulls made it to the Playoffs and despite averaging 43 PPG in the 1986 playoffs, as well as incredibly high scoring numbers in 1985 and 1987, he still couldnt make it out. So i can as well say that MJ teamed up with Pippen to gt his rings. Yes Who wouldnt win with a person considered one of the grestest defender in the league


Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 3:30pm On Dec 12, 2016
frenchwine:
Agreed Jordan was a phenomenon but LeBron is still on his upward curve with no sign of tanking. Going by the ESPN rankings in which LeBron sits pretty at No. 3, say, what would be our take 4-5yrs from now when LeBron would have shattered whatever record is still left of him to attain, and perhaps added 1-2 more rings?
LeBron isn't my man crush, not for once but we can't but admire and appreciate his contributions to the game.
Espn are well known LBJ fanboys. Nobody is touching M.J tho. Certainly not Mr 4 Final losses Lebron
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 3:45pm On Dec 12, 2016
LeBron has lost four times in the finals, and people really think he is going to come close to Jordan, the dude that went 6-6 in the NBA finals. I'm sick.
Re: The NBA Begins by SmooshCHN: 3:59pm On Dec 12, 2016
Cos I'm not understanding what Lola and some are writing up there.. ESPN will put LeBron at no.2 if he makes the next two playoffs even if he doesn't win. He's a great player but comparing him to Michael Jordan, and even dropping Kobe to 11 is just insult to the Game abeg.
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 4:00pm On Dec 12, 2016
A40:

Espn are well known LBJ fanboys. Nobody is touching M.J tho. Certainly not Mr 4 Final losses Lebron
ESPN is made up of many writers and editors, some of whom are also writers for the NBA website.
Agreed many were wowed by his more explosive years but over the past two years, his fan base has been heavily diluted by emergent stars.
And bias aside, his stats speak volumes. At least we can't put that on the NBA (referees)
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 4:03pm On Dec 12, 2016
Donlittle:
LeBron has lost four times in the finals, and people really think he is going to come close to Jordan, the dude that went 6-6 in the NBA finals. I'm sick.
If we're just gonna count the rings-to-final ratio , then I guess it would really be crowded up there.
Re: The NBA Begins by SIRcumalot: 4:48pm On Dec 12, 2016
SmooshCHN:
Cos I'm not understanding what Lola and some are writing up there.. ESPN will put LeBron at no.2 if he makes the next two playoffs even if he doesn't win. He's a great player but comparing him to Michael Jordan, and even dropping Kobe to 11 is just insult to the Game abeg.
what bout SI last ranking,
na LBJ fans full there too ?
That is without his third ring.
Kobe was ranked 12th on that site.
Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 4:56pm On Dec 12, 2016
A40:

Espn are well known LBJ fanboys. Nobody is touching M.J tho. Certainly not Mr 4 Final losses Lebron
ESPN's list is the closest to perfection iv ever seen. Whoever would touch M. J hasn't been born or yet to enter the league.
But my brother Lebron lossing 4 finals has nothing to do with it. In the first place, lebron had no business getting to most of this final.
His first finals at the age of 22 with that extremely weak cavs should be applauded.
His last finals in miami with dead dwane wade and Chris bosh was a miracle to have gotten that far. Pound for pound, Indiana was much better than miami.

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Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 5:01pm On Dec 12, 2016
Donlittle:
LeBron has lost four times in the finals, and people really think he is going to come close to Jordan, the dude that went 6-6 in the NBA finals. I'm sick.
Like I mentioned to A40, those finals losses shouldn't completely count against Lebron.
If they should count against him, then we should applaud the number of finals he has led a team to. At times, he leads both teams in scoring, rebounds, assist and even defence. That's incredible.
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 5:05pm On Dec 12, 2016
frenchwine:

ESPN is made up of many writers and editors, some of whom are also writers for the NBA website.
Agreed many were wowed by his more explosive years but over the past two years, his fan base has been heavily diluted by emergent stars.
And bias aside, his stats speak volumes. At least we can't put that on the NBA (referees)
I don't disrespect his stats. However for me it is necessary to always consider his consistently easier path to the Finals when comparing him with M.J and even Kobe, not forgetting his supporting cast especially in Miami

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Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 5:15pm On Dec 12, 2016
SmooshCHN:
Cos I'm not understanding what Lola and some are writing up there.. ESPN will put LeBron at no.2 if he makes the next two playoffs even if he doesn't win. He's a great player but comparing him to Michael Jordan, and even dropping Kobe to 11 is just insult to the Game abeg.
Kobe should be flattered for being at number 11. If not for the effect of the greatest coach ever (Phil jackson), he wouldn't have gotten all those rings.
Walai, If lebron had a coaches as good as Phil, or popovich or pat Riley or lenny Wilkins, he surely would have gotten at least 5 rings.
Those are coaches that revolutionised game plays and strategies.
Those coaches were the second most important personalities in their teams, next to the star players.
If u played the game professionally on any level you would understand and interpret easily what these coaches draw on those boards.
Take it or leave it, the coaching crew of the warriors are way above our era of basketball. I'm not a warriors fan. But what we seeing in them today is equivalent to what we saw when Pep Guadiola took over Barcelona in 2008.
Warriors wouldn't have been this good without Steve kerr. He played under 2 of the greatest coached ever.

1 Like

Re: The NBA Begins by Roland17(m): 5:22pm On Dec 12, 2016
Below is Lebron's quote in August 2016, he admits its impossible to match Jordan.

“My motivation,” James says, “is this ghost I’m chasing. The ghost played in Chicago.”

Dem dey catch ghost for una village? He knows Jordan is a myth he can't decipher.

1 Like

Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 5:25pm On Dec 12, 2016
nairamaniac:

Like I mentioned to A40, those finals losses should completely count against Lebron.
If they should count against him, then we should applaud the number of finals he has led a team to. At times, he leads both teams in scoring, rebounds, assist and even defence. That's incredible.
4 of those Finals were with 2 of the top 5 picks in his draft class in Miami abeg let's not kid ourselves. He gets a pass for 2007 and to a lesser extent when Love went down in 2015.

The leading both teams happened last season and its a remarkable feat tbvh. However we are also talking about someone that could not guard Jason Terry or a Kawhi Leonard in his 3rd year in the league
Re: The NBA Begins by SIRcumalot: 5:28pm On Dec 12, 2016
A40:

4 of those Finals were with 2 of the top 5 picks in his draft class in Miami abeg let's not kid ourselves. He gets a pass for 2007 and to a lesser extent when Love went down in 2015.

The leading both teams happened last season and its a remarkable feat tbvh. However we are also talking about someone that could not guard Jason Terry or a Kawhi Leonard in his 3rd year in the league
where do you rank James now sef ?
things must have change since the last final
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 5:36pm On Dec 12, 2016
A40:

I don't disrespect his stats. However for me it is necessary to always consider his consistently easier path to the Finals when comparing him with M.J and even Kobe, not forgetting his supporting cast especially in Miami
Cool. We would keep our eyes peeled wink cheesy
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 5:37pm On Dec 12, 2016
nairamaniac:
Kobe should be flattered for being at number 11. If not for the effect of the greatest coach ever (Phil jackson), he wouldn't have gotten all those rings.
Walai, If lebron had a coaches as good as Phil, or popovich or pat Riley or lenny Wilkins, he surely would have gotten at least 5 rings.
Those are coaches that revolutionised game plays and strategies.
Those coaches were the second most important personalities in their teams, next to the star players.
If u played the game professionally on any level you would understand and interpret easily what these coaches draw on those boards.
Take it or leave it, the coaching crew of the warriors are way above our era of basketball. I'm not a warriors fan. But what we seeing in them today is equivalent to what we saw when Pep Guadiola took over Barcelona in 2008.
Warriors wouldn't have been this good without Steve kerr. He played under 2 of the greatest coached ever.
How should Kobe be flattered for being at #11? Kobe for me is top 5 to top 8. The Greatest Laker IMO. He was there through the good the bad and the ugly. Also this your Phil Jackson argument na two way street. He also didn't win any rings without Kobe or M.J so their relationship is a largely symbiotic one.

Its unfortunate that a huge chunk of Kobe's prime had Smush Parker, Brian Cook and Kwame Brown in his lineup. We are talking of bums that barely lasted 5 years in the league

1 Like

Re: The NBA Begins by nairamaniac: 5:39pm On Dec 12, 2016
A40:

4 of those Finals were with 2 of the top 5 picks in his draft class in Miami abeg let's not kid ourselves. He gets a pass for 2007 and to a lesser extent when Love went down in 2015.

The leading both teams happened last season and its a remarkable feat tbvh. However we are also talking about someone that could not guard Jason Terry or a Kawhi Leonard in his 3rd year in the league

He should also get a pass for 2011finals when they faced mavs. The team had no direction and no clear leader as at then. Both himself and dwane wade were just taking turns offensively. Their style was bullshit. When the team submitted the offence to lebron to run thru him, we saw what they did from their second year together?

A40, I thot lebron also led both teams in points, assist and rebounds in 2015 finals against warriors. Or did he do it in like 3 major categories, bar-rebounds?
Re: The NBA Begins by A40(m): 5:40pm On Dec 12, 2016
SIRcumalot:

where do you rank James now sef ?
things must have change since the last final
James is a top 10 guy no doubt but when people start talking top 5 I usually check out of the discussion
Re: The NBA Begins by Nobody: 5:41pm On Dec 12, 2016
Roland17:
Below is Lebron's quote in August 2016, he admits its impossible to match Jordan.

“My motivation,” James says, “is this ghost I’m chasing. The ghost played in Chicago.”

Dem dey catch ghost for una village? He knows Jordan is a myth he can't decipher.
That's humility broh, he is not Muhammad Ali to proclaim himself as a demi-god.
It's just like Messi saying he adores Maradona, that doesn't mean he isn't already above Maradona (even though some would say he needs a World Cup to get up there) , or Roger Federer saying he adores Pete Sampras
Re: The NBA Begins by SIRcumalot: 5:47pm On Dec 12, 2016
A40:

James is a top 10 guy no doubt but when people start talking top 5 I usually check out of the discussion
noted.
I'll ask again some other time.

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