italo: If salvation can't be lost, why was Paul worried about being disqualified? Even though he was "saved" at the time he was writing scripture.

Why did he always "HOPE" for salvation?

How can you be certain, when St. Paul wasn't?

bigd4050: @ i.chucka and 5solas...thanks for the support guys. I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see and recognize these truths. They are hard and difficult to understand, and sound harsh, but those that do understand have a deeper relationship with God and are able to live out these truths with more confidence, knowing that God is sovereign and his will is going to be done. Appreciate it guys!

italo: : If salvation can't be lost, why was Paul worried about being disqualified? Even though he was "saved" at the time he was writing scripture.

Why did he always "HOPE" for salvation?

How can you be certain, when St. Paul wasn't?

i.chuka:


For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son....and those He predestined,He also called;those He called,He also justified;those He justified,He also glorified.what,then shall we say in response to this?if God is for us,who can be against us?......who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?it is God justified...Romns8:29-33.
I wonder how those who are called,chosen and justified can lose their Salvation.
@bigd great write up.

5solas:

St. Paul was so uncertain about his salvation , that he wrote the verses below , to make his hearers certain of theirs.

Romans 8

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/b]

5solas:

A very sound post.

Since those who believe are called and chosen and you cannot be saved if you are not called and chosen, it is clear anyone so chosen will NEVER come to condemnation.

bigd4050:

That is like me saying that God created the universe from nothing. And then you saying "something has never come from nothing, we have this whole world as an example". I get what your trying to say, but when you compare God's nature and salvation, which are not definable by the world, to something material here on this earth, it doesn't work. Sure, you have given a great example to show what your trying to say, but it doesn't even brush up against what I'm saying because we are arguing two different realms. Your logic works here on this earth. I am talking about spiritual things.

Image123:
Bigd's write up was poor and filled with error. God wants ALL to be saved, there are actually Bible verses that say that. How can he say that man cannot decide to have faith?

Zikkyy:

Well the 'koko' of what these guys are telling you is that God already prepared a list of those he want saved. The list was prepared even before your mother gave birth to you. So if you like go to church, speak in multiple languages, tithe and dance 'azonto', you are a 'goner' if your name is not on that list

Image123:
Where is that list?

Image123:
Is there supplementary list?

Image123:
Have they seen that list? Who told them about that list?

Image123:
Bigd's write up was poor and filled with error. God wants ALL to be saved, there are actually Bible verses that say that. How can he say that man cannot decide to have faith? Why all the admonition by Jesus to His disciples to have faith and not doubt? Nobody is predestinated to go to Heaven or to salvation. We are predestinated to be conformed into the image of Christ. Stop adding to the Word.

Zikkyy:

With God na



Brother Image, e be like you dey do your things through back door no 'mago-mago' for God matter If you don't make first batch, you should forget it. No 'man know man' or 'man know pastor' for this matter.



i can't answer this bit. Ask them anytime they are online

i.chuka:


What did i add,abi your Bible no complete?
For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son....and those He predestined,He also Called,those He called,He also justified,those He Justified,He also Glorified...Romns8:29-30.
We have been Called,Chosen,Justified and even Glorified in Christ before the of the world.....Ephns1:6..For He chose us in Him(Christ) before the creation of the world to be Holy and blameless in His sight.in love He predestined us to adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ,IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS PLEASURE AND WILL TO BE THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORIOUS GRACE.

Image123:
Bigd's write up was poor and filled with error. God wants ALL to be saved, there are actually Bible verses that say that. How can he say that man cannot decide to have faith? Why all the admonition by Jesus to His disciples to have faith and not doubt? Nobody is predestinated to go to Heaven or to salvation. We are predestinated to be conformed into the image of Christ. Stop adding to the Word.

Image123:
Can you show us this clarity from scriptures, or it's only revealed to the esoteric few?

Image123:
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6).
Is this also the spiritual realm?

italo:

Amen! I believe the passage. I just don't accept your personal fallible interpretation of it.

The reason that nothing could separate them from God's love is that they lived in the spirit. And why does the spirit give life? You will find your answer in verse 10 of the same chapter.

Romans 8:10: But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness.

Because of RIGHTEOUSNESS! That's why we have the spirit, that's why nothing can separate us from God's love.

Verse 13 says: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

What if you don't make use of the spirit to put to death the misdeeds of the body? What happens?

You will die! (God's love will be separated from you)

bigd4050:

It is the spiritual realm. What does this have to do with salvation or this conversation?

Image123:
We showed that something can be lost that you didn't do anything to get, you guys said that's physical. So, here is spiritual. geddit?

Image123: "And being made perfect, he became the author of ETERNAL salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).
Eternal salvation is CONDITIONED on obedience.
Let these sayings sink deep into your ears. Salvation can be lost.

bigd4050:

Ok, fair enough. People and angels can lose something that they didn't earn. Still don't understand how that refutes my point about salvation.

Image123: ^
A person can be predestined to conform to Christ without going to Heaven, you can actually partake of the heavenly gift and of the powers of the age to come without going to Heaven. It actually happens here on earth, God's will can be done on earth. God predestines the set of people that choose to believe and repent. There is no forgiveness of sins without repentance. Predestination is like a company policy. Those who we employ are going to be trained for Xweeks, travel to Germany for Zweeks and be made grade Y management staff. That's what's going to happen to the recruits. But to be recruited is another matter. We don't say "the company's selected who they want to select, they even have laid out plans and salaries for their people".

Image123:
It refutes your point that salvation cannot be lost simply BECAUSE it was not earned.

bigd4050:
Conclusion: God chooses those who will be conformed to Christ, which means he will choose who will or will not have faith or go to heaven.

Unitedsatanist: The short answer to this question is yes... they can.

Never deny the power of Satan.

Before you were a Christian... you weren't on his list.

Zikkyy:

. . .and what is the basis for selecting the lucky few that 'will have faith or go to heaven'? is the selection arbitrary? am sure you don't have a clue. The reason why your interpretation of the bible verse will not stand. It does not not support (cannot be used to interpret) any of the behaviors, actions or comments we find/read in the bible

bigd4050:

It sounds like your saying here that we have the holy spirit because of our righteousness, which I disagree with. Maybe you just didn't expound enough..but the order that I see from the Bible is that God gives us the Holy Spirit, and then we begin to live a righteous life.