LagosShia:

you people are drunk.i can use your earlier post for tissue paper whether you stand by it or not.in fact i wouldn't because as a muslim i'd rather use water.

so i acknowledged violence will happen,but you guys didn't know that when you find people's trouble you'd get what you are looking for?you act the dumb and then think you are so angelic and innocent when you know what you are doing.my words were clearly meant for the coward who uses a pc at home or in the cafe or wherever to insult others that he is a coward.

i dont have to convince you.but for me to make you understand what i am saying,try this:

face a bouncer who can squeeze life out of your nostrils and curse his mother and call her a ba$tard and different names we read on here.then come back to give your testimony.

haven't you done same?

 

brentkruge:

haven't you done same?

no sir! i have not done same.close examination of my posts would reveal that to you.

Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’” {Burning men, women and children alive in their homes)

In Christianity's holy books nobody was forced to pray

goggs:


In Christianity's holy books nobody was forced to pray

in Christianity like in Islam,people are not punished in this world for not praying.but not worshipping God will have a price in the hereafter.you can check Isaiah 65 and see God's punishment of the "rebellious" a term which has to do also with those who refused to offer prayer to God.

now,let us examine the hadith this empty-headed and dishonest christian is presenting to us.if anything is verified to have come from the mouth of the Prophet (sa),we accept that the words are indirectly those of God and therefore they reflect upon Islam as the Prophet (sa) is our teacher.

also,if the words are in the Holy Quran,we accept those words as directly the word of God Almighty.

now,let us take a closer look at the hadith and what game the christian is playing with us.as a Shia Muslim myself,i could have rejected the hadith just on the basis that it comes from the Sunni compilation of hadith called "sahih bukhari".but since the allegation is made against Islam,i will respond.

here is the hadith (take note of the words of the Prophet s.a. in blue):

Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’” {Burning men, women and children alive in their homes)

after the words of the Prophet (sa),someone is telling us that he decided on his own to burn the houses of people who did not leave their houses for prayers in the mosque.those words are not from the Prophet (sa) and that is what the christian missionary deliberately conceals from the unsuspecting.the words are from someone who is narrating the hadith and saw it fit to burn people's houses based on his own judgement and zeal and because the reward for praying in the mosque is great as the Prophet (sa) said.just may be like boko haram thinks it is right and islamic to kill people.

there is also another fault with this hadith.in islam,it is not obligatory to leave one's house and attend the prayer in the mosque in congregation.congregational gatherings for the obligatory prayers are highly recommended but not  compulsory.so how can anyone in his right senses burn people's houses bacuse they did not attend congregational prayer? the person is not even sure if those who did not leave their house prayed at home.it is acceptable to pray the obligatory 5 daily prayers at home.

I did not manufacture this quote. I got it from YOUR sources.

Now look at the quotation carefully. i
there is no punctuation marks to show the Prophets words had ended with the word "crawl" except for your highlight.

Don't hang me! I only quoted your sources .

also important is the fact it found its way into an authentic Hadith, so it did happen that some people got burnt for missing prayers. Assuming you are right it was not the Prophet, we are not informed that someone got punished or rebuked for it or that it was even a bad thing.

if your point is that the Hadith be rejected because of its sources, then say so. I only quoted your sources without interpretations  so I don't think I am empty headed. Am just comparing the two great religions.

the burden is on you not me.

^^^^

firstly the hadith is telling us that someone burnt houses of those who did not attend congreagtional prayers.not that because they did not pray,but because they did not go to the mosque.and in islam that is totally not the case.congregational prayers are recommended but not obligatory.

secondly,it is also not an issue of punctuation.it is dishonesty.the hadith is quoted in a way that make it look the Prophet (sa) burnt people's houses.how? the hadith is reported by someone.and the person who reported the hadith is the one who took the action of burning.so why was his name not included? why did the hadith just starts with "the Prophet said".who is telling us what the Prophet (sa) said?it is concealed.the name of the reporter was removed and every hadith contains the name of the reporter and also the chain of reporters.i see this as deliberate in removing the name of the speaker.this hadith could easily pass as reporting the action of the Prophet (sa) or that the Prophet (sa) is endorsing burning for those not leavening their houses to congregate.

so my advice to you,next time you go to those anti-islamic sites to copy hadiths,try and scrutinize what you are copying.it would save you the public embarassment of being busted as you were busted in this particular case.

Your prophet ordered the burning, it says so in the hadith!!!! Stop lying and twisting

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

http://www.sultan.org/books/bukhari/011.htm

Hadith on Fajr and Isha Salaat: Who's a greater liar - Bukhari or Abu Huraira?

(1/2) > >>

Zeynab:
BismEm


Salaams folks!  My post is about defending the exemplary character of the beloved Prophet (peace and blessings be on him) from yet another massive LIE of those unworthy persons whom today the Ummah cannonizes as ones who can do no wrong. 

We all know that in the Noble Quran, the Almighty Allah speaks very highly of Prophet Muhammad.  The Quran refers to the Prophet as having a "tremendous" character.  The Quraan tells us that the Prophet Muhammad is sent to this world as a mercy for humankind.  We know through various historical data about the very kind, understanding and gentle temperament of the Prophet.  His leniency toward his wives despite living in a very male dominated society was well known.  His deep compassion for the poor, helpless, slaves, children and animals was an established fact of the era. 

Yet, in the collection of Bukhari hadith, we find the following narration that is clearly constructed with the most mean spirited intent to promote the radical views either of the narrator, or this hadith writer or the some of his later time disciples.  Here is the shocking hadith:

Narrated Abu Hurairah - Rasualullah (SAW) said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I wish to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." (Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Hadith # 626)

Think for yourselves.  Could the chosen Messenger of Allah, a person as tender hearted as our Prophet (pbuh) give orders to carry out arson, burning the homes of those who for whatever reasons didn't or couldn't go to the mosque for Fajr and Isha prayers?  When the Noble Quraan clearly says that "there is no compulsion in religion," could the Prophet violate this dictate and the other Quraanic dictates of ethics and give instructions to commit such an act? Of course the answer is NO, NEVER. 

I ask these people who write such blatant falsehood so shamelessly that is this their way of encouraging people to visit the mosque?  And is this their method of highlighting the importance of Fajr and Isha salaah?  Lying about anyone or anything is bad enough.  Lying about a person who was chosen as special by the Almighty God is an act beyond comprehension!  It can only be done by one who never had a conscience and was never interested in acquiring it. 

THIS HADITH IS AN OBNOXIOUS AND WICKED LIE AND MUST BE TRASHED RIGHT AWAY!

Ruhi_Rose:
Quote from: Zeynab on May 24, 2007, 04:03:06 am




Narrated Abu Hurairah - Rasualullah (SAW) said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I wish to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." (Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Hadith # 626) 


Haaah!!  maad

No wonder Omar bin Khattab is said to have given Abu Huraira a few slaps ,  no one deserved it more.  Not that Bukhari deserves anything better for his part of such thuggery!

Quote from: Zeynab on May 24, 2007, 04:03:06 am




THIS HADITH IS AN OBNOXIOUS AND WICKED LIE AND MUST BE TRASHED RIGHT AWAY! 


Should be first put thru a shredder and then the bits to be trashed

Heba:
"Who is the greater liar - Bukhari or Abu Huraira?"

Heehehee.  Good question.  Both run neck and neck , they seem like conspirators who made sure that their narrations and writings cover every criminal act.  Garbage can is the only destination for such narrations.  That goes without saying.

persian_thinker:
Woe upon the author of this hadith is all I can say.  In plain terms this narration is trying to say that the Prophet (pbuh) endorsed arson!  Such vile schemes can only be expected from the mouths or pens of the enemies of God and the Prophet. 

Our so-called learned ones who confidently call themselves "alims" cannot even realise (rather won't realise) the simplest issue, i.e. isnad is no foolproof analysis of authenticity.  Again, rather it's no analysis at all.  Constructing a convenient isnad is no hard task for anyone.  Second, even if the findings of an isnad have been correctly traced and verified in conformity with history, yet it proves nothing. 

'Sahabas' is a term commonly given to people who spent some time in the company of the Prophet.  Simply spending time in the Prophet's company is not necessarily a prerequisite for washing off all of one's sins.  There were many types of people who met and spent time in the Prophet's company.  Some were excellent, some good, some in between and some really bad ones.  The Almighty Allah has never said that they were all perfect and neither did the Prophet.  The narrators or 'sahabas' were simply humans with attributes as well as shortcomings just like others.  After the death of the Prophet, there were sahabas who held on fast to the Quranic teachings (i.e. the Prophet's teachings as well).  But also, many of them and their descendents got sucked into petty or intricate squabblings relating to politics, society, money, legal issues etc.  They stated and did many things to establish an infrastructure that fitted into a very different set of values.  Therefore, many of the Quranic laws obstructed the designs of these people.  This gradually necessiated the formation of hadith and the hadith business steadily kept proliferating.  It is also the cause why we find such astonishing violations in all those extra Quranic literature that are apparently a lot more compatible with every other faith in the world except the Quran. 

Personally I don't care what Abu Huraira said or what Anas bin Malik said or whatever anyone else said.  I only know that they were common people but my Prophet wasn't.  Of course, the Prophet was biologically very human who had no miracles except the Noble Quran.  But ethically and morally he (pbuh) was far above the common human being.  That's the reason God chose him to deliver His message.  The Almighty God says in the Quran that he (Prophet) has a "tremendous" nature.  God also mentions of the Prophet as being sent as a mercy to this world.  Such compliments and many more are in the Quran as per the words of the Almighty God Himself.  So, would God select someone as His chosen messenger who is so tyrannical that he would give orders to burn the homes of those who didn't visit the mosque for prayers ?

God mentions in the Quran that even those who blaspheme and insult the Divine revelations should simply be ignored.  If you find anyone meddling in such conversations, all you are instructed to do is to quit their company and walk out till they engage in some other topic.  Far from killing them or striking them with one's hands, God does not even allow the believers to argue with them nor insult them in return.  That's how tolerant the Quran is and that's exactly how patient the Prophet was who never  disobeyed the Quran. 

Anyone who genuinely believes such ahadith to be true has only exposed their love and trust for the cheating authors of such violent literature to be above that of the most compassionate teachings of the Almighty God as implemented by the Prophet Muhammad.  Those hadith fans who publicly condone or remain silent regarding such narrations but at heart realise the portrayal of falsehood should gather some guts in their pants (or khimars) and appeal to the imams or "scholars" of their respective communities to have these shameful writings scarapped off the hadith books.  This is the least they can do to express their regret for such pathetic and astounding deviations!

In conclusion, I too am struck with the same query put by sister Zeynab.  Who is the greater liar ?  Bukhari, Huraira or some other scheming disciples / descendents ?  Whoever they are / were, only God knows best.  Based on my personal feelings, I can't help but wish that the Almighty God grants them little or no mercy on the Day of the Tryst.  After all, according to any conscientious mind, distorting the Divine Faith by intentionally introducing falsehood within it is a sin that's not too far behind idolatry in its enormity. 

Thanks, walaikum salaam and peace to all.

Ruhi_Rose:
Very well put PT.  These are exactly the points that keep crossing my mind.  The champions of hadith talk about Isnad with such pride as if it's an irrefutable proof of authenticity. It gives them an excuse to ignore the objectionable contents.  It's not that they don't realise the irrelevance of Isnad.  But that's the only excuse they have to stick to their stance.

Even your brothers and sisters are embarrassed by it, Its not only on nairaland that such discussions take place. Please tell me the hadith is false, Obviously because you do not like the contents, then it was not the prophet that ordered the massacre.

I thought Bukhari and Muslim were the authentic hadiths,

ShiaMuslim:

^^^^

firstly the hadith is telling us that someone burnt houses of those who did not attend congreagtional prayers.not that because they did not pray,but because they did not go to the mosque.and in islam that is totally not the case.congregational prayers are recommended but not obligatory.

secondly,it is also not an issue of punctuation.it is dishonesty.the hadith is quoted in a way that make it look the Prophet (sa) burnt people's houses.how? the hadith is reported by someone.and the person who reported the hadith is the one who took the action of burning.so why was his name not included? why did the hadith just starts with "the Prophet said".who is telling us what the Prophet (sa) said?it is concealed.the name of the reporter was removed and every hadith contains the name of the reporter and also the chain of reporters.i see this as deliberate in removing the name of the speaker.this hadith could easily pass as reporting the action of the Prophet (sa) or that the Prophet (sa) is endorsing burning for those not leavening their houses to congregate.

so my advice to you,next time you go to those anti-islamic sites to copy hadiths,try and scrutinize what you are copying.it would save you the public embarassment of being busted as you were busted in this particular case.

if you don't agree with the Hadith please say so. don't tell me i will be embarrassed and busted. for what? it should be you guys who don't agree with the Hadith or argue about it should be embarassed.

what you are doing is called transfer of aggression. explain to us why we should disregard the Hadith please.

please see proo212 post who quoted from an Islamic site. The quotations directly attribute the act to the Prophet

goggs:

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

This is the problem with translations from the Arabic Language,  A better translation from the Arabic Language is as follows:

"No other prayer is more harder than Fajr(The first prayer) and Isha (The last prayer) on Hypocrites. If they knew the reward of (these two prayers) and even if would not been able to walk(means handicaps) they would have crawled. And I even made an intention to tell the Mo'azan (Call maker) to say Takbeer and give another person to become Imam and lead the prayers and go myself holding a flame to burn all of the houses of those who didn't came to Mosque yet."

This is a translation closer to the actual meaning, nobody's house was burnt,  No order was given to burn any one's house,   The prophet was simply emphasizing the importance of the prayer by his words,  so that the people come out of their homes to pray.

It is important to understand the Arabic Language so that you can always refer to the arabic text in hadiths like this one, 

I hope this helps,

tbaba1234

With all due respect you and your brothers cannot get away from this. Are you trying to say that the people who translated this are not arabic speakers?

If you do a search of the hadith, some websites have deliberately left out the second part of the narration because its clearly arson and murder by your prophet. If other muslims are arguing about it (not only on nairaland) then the hadith is true. Now Abu Huraira and Bukhari are liars? No amount of twisting will save you from this one. This is an authentic hadith.

One of the debaters said the Ummahs canonized them, that means the Ummahs recognized their authenticity as companions of your prophet. In the debate you see them clearly wanting to shred this hadith and continue as normal like it doesn't exist. But what about other damaging hadiths? How many can you shred because it doesn't edify your prophet?

Denial is the longest river in Egypt

proo212:

tbaba1234

With all due respect you and your brothers cannot get away from this. Are you trying to say that the people who translated this are not arabic speakers?

If you do a search of the hadith, some websites have deliberately left out the second part of the narration because its clearly arson murder by your prophet. If other muslims are arguing about it (not only on nairaland) then the hadith is true. Now Abu Huraira and Bukhari are liars? No amount of twisting will save you from this one. This is an authentic hadith.

One of the debaters said the Ummahs canonized them, that means the Ummahs recognized their authenticity as companions of your prophet. In the debate you see them clearly wanting to shred this hadith and continue as normal like it doesn't exist. But what about other damaging hadiths? How many can you shred because it doesn't edify your prophet?

Denial is the longest river in Egypt

They are probably Arabic speakers but not necessarily native english speakers, The same problem is faced with Quranic translations by non-English speakers.

I have given you an honest translation of the hadith. Muslims who argue about the hadith do not speak Arabic and base their arguments on the english translation of the hadith. The translation in Urdu for instance is much better, it captures it better.

The hadith as far as i know is true. It is an authentic hadith, I have given you a more accurate translation. There are many other hadiths that suffer from poor translation because hadiths are not as widely translated as say the Quran.

Hadiths have varying levels of authenticity, for instance hadiths by ibn ishaq are not usually trustworthy because ibn ishaq did not authenticate any hadith, He accepted most of the stories that came to him, there was no authentication done. The bukhari and muslim hadith are considered the most authentic but the hadiths in them also have varying levels of authenticity. Some narrations are more authentic than others.

Now, in order to interprete an hadith, you must understand the circumstances of the hadith, Sometimes, i come across hadiths, that christian missionaries have termed controversial and when i go through the circumstances, It is hardly controversial.

I am not an expert on hadiths because the science can be complicated, so i usually don't make comments unless i fully understand the meaning, the isnaad (chain of narration), the circumstances and the authenticity of the hadiths.

Anyways, this hadith is only controversial to the English speaker who reads the sometimes poor translation of hadiths.

Thanks.

Tbaba1234,

If it makes you sleep well at night, good luck to you. From your posts I know you are reasonable guy, but a child cannot believe your explanations. When glaring truths have come out from your books (quran and hadith), you cannot always refute by saying its the translation that is skewed. If it were the translation, then a lot of these works should have been retranslated to convey the correct and intended meaning.

Its not about translation, its about trying to cover up what is not palatable for the non-muslims

proo212:

Tbaba1234,

If it makes you sleep well at night, good luck to you. From your posts I know you are reasonable guy, but a child cannot believe your explanations. When glaring truths have come out from your books (quran and hadith), you cannot always refute by saying its the translation that is skewed. If it were the translation, then a lot of these works should have been retranslated to convey the correct and intended meaning.

Its not about translation, its about trying to cover up what is not palatable for the non-muslims

it is like there are not enough evil in the bible for you guys to have fun with?

those who deliberately twisted the hadith may not even be muslims.recently,the same "goggs" posted fatwas attributed to Ayatollah Khomeini as permitting bestiality.another clear evidence that he is copying from websites that are either forging,faking or fabricating texts.this isn't even an instance of mistranslation.this is an instance of deception.they either deliberetly mistranslate the text or they conceal a part or play with words like replacing "if" with another word to make it look as a command as in the case of the fatwas of Ayatollah Khomeini (RA) also.

Lagosshia, you cannot refute authentic hadiths that muslims all over the world are not comfortable with. If those that compiled knew it would bite them in the ass, they would have shredded it like your brothers are asking.

Your prophet has been seen to be an arsonist.

proo212:

Lagosshia, you cannot refute authentic hadiths that muslims all over the world are not comfortable with. If those that compiled knew it would bite them in the Bottom, they would have shredded it like your brothers are asking.

Your prophet has been seen to be an arsonist.

Problem is that Shia's hardly agree with the hadiths as authentic, but the Sunnis rely heavily on the hadiths, especially  Sahih Al-Bukhari which was translated by M. Muhsin Khan.

proo212:

Lagosshia, you cannot refute authentic hadiths that muslims all over the world are not comfortable with. If those that compiled knew it would bite them in the Bottom, they would have shredded it like your brothers are asking.

Your prophet has been seen to be an arsonist.

are you trying to be childish? who is even talking here about authenticity? we are talking here of a delieberate attempt to distort the text by ill-intended people who are dishonest like the people you look up to for copying materials to attack Islam and provoke muslims.do you get?

as for hadith compilations,the books of hadiths are not authentic.there are books that are reliable.yet,that does not make them authentic.each hadith must be examined individually to test it and make sure it compliments the Quran.only the Quran is 100% authentic.the Quran is the yardstick to judge hadiths.

like the bible,hadith books have passed down through the hands and narrating of fallible men.so hadiths are not preserved.there could be more than one version of the same hadith due to mistake.that is why the hadith must be properly examined and studied and the truth will become clear.unlike the christians who live in denial in accepting and claiming everything in the bible is the "word of God" even when obvious and explicit verses in the bible are screaming at them that they are not inspired and not the word of God.

frosbel:

Problem is that Shia's hardly agree with the hadiths as authentic, but the Sunnis rely heavily on the hadiths, especially  Sahih Al-Bukhari which was translated by M. Muhsin Khan.

not correct."sahih bukhari" is a book relied upon mainly by sunnis.the shia also rely upon hadith.but regardless whether you are shia or sunni,hadiths are scrutinized and graded by both sunni and shia scholars.it really makes no difference.there could be hadiths found in "sahih bukhari" that you may find in "kitab al-kafi" or "biharul anwar" of the shia.so regardless where the hadith is found,it must be examined for consistency and truth.

For the sake of argument lest you think I am convinced by your rebuttal, if these is so much uncertainty, (which is true, which is not true)(what do sunnis believe, what do shias believe) how does a muslim grow in the faith? The only way i can think of is to listen to the Imams and scholars and not read the hadiths since they are "authentic but not reliable" (can you see how that sounds?).

You know what happens when you base your faith in the hands of mullah and imams? Whatever the imams say you do. Go and kill, no problem. Jihad is needed no problem, America is the enemy of Islam (protest on the streets, they have drawn a cartoon about our prophet, protest on the streets. Women should not buy cucumber or banana because they might think bad things

There is no consistency in quran. The first time I heard about hadith is when i came to this forum and i was told you need it to interpret the quran. Now I hear they are authentic but not reliable,

What to do?

proo212:

For the sake of argument lest you think I am convinced by your rebuttal, if these is so much uncertainty, (which is true, which is not true)(what do sunnis believe, what do shias believe) [b]how does a muslim grow in the faith? The only way i can think of is to listen to the Imams and scholars and not read the hadiths [/b]since they are "authentic but not reliable" (can you see how that sounds?).

You know what happens when you base your faith in the hands of mullah and imams? Whatever the imams say you do. Go and kill, no problem. Jihad is needed no problem, America is the enemy of Islam (protest on the streets, they have drawn a cartoon about our prophet, protest on the streets. Women should not buy cucumber or banana because they might think bad things

There is no consistency in quran. The first time I heard about hadith is when i came to this forum and i was told you need it to interpret the quran. Now I hear they are authentic but not reliable,

What to do?

You hit the nail on the head here.

proo212:

For the sake of argument lest you think I am convinced by your rebuttal, if these is so much uncertainty, (which is true, which is not true)(what do sunnis believe, what do shias believe) how does a muslim grow in the faith? The only way i can think of is to listen to the Imams and scholars and not read the hadiths since they are "authentic but not reliable" (can you see how that sounds?).

You know what happens when you base your faith in the hands of mullah and imams? Whatever the imams say you do. Go and kill, no problem. Jihad is needed no problem, America is the enemy of Islam (protest on the streets, they have drawn a cartoon about our prophet, protest on the streets. Women should not buy cucumber or banana because they might think bad things

There is no consistency in quran. The first time I heard about hadith is when i came to this forum and i was told you need it to interpret the quran. Now I hear they are authentic but not reliable,

What to do?

you are even misquoting my words.so how can anyone really take you seriously?

i said the hadith books are reliable but not everything in them are authentic.

you are just dramatizing here to make your point in labelling muslims as those who blindly follow without thinking when that is actually the case with christians and not muslims.

it is not a hard job to recognize that a hadith is not correct for the simple fact that a muslim who can read the Holy Quran and spot out an obvious contradiction should reject the hadith and accept the Quran.the hadith only compliment the Quran to give details and explanations.

"Islam is a violent religion with a violent prophet" wilders

The problem Islam has with modern society is that of outdated values. Muhammed might ve been an ok guy with a child wife and many other wives. He might done acts which were tolerated in his time. He might ve been a reformer of his time. BUT muslims are attempting to raise an old normal man to the status of GOD. And try to portray his actions as timeless. It wouldn't work. Muhammed's image gets worse everyday. And more muslims are going into denial.

Kay 17:

"Islam is a violent religion with a violent prophet" wilders

The problem Islam has with modern society is that of outdated values. Muhammed might ve been an ok guy with a child wife and many other wives. He might done acts which were tolerated in his time. He might ve been a reformer of his time. BUT muslims are attempting to raise an old normal man to the status of GOD. And try to portray his actions as timeless. It wouldn't work. Muhammed's image gets worse everyday. And more muslims are going into denial.

here comes another psycho with the christian missionary cliches.are you not tired of promoting lies and claims which are false and you cannot prove?

in another thread your old fashioned claim the Prophet (sa) married a child was debunked beyond a shadow of doubt:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-846958.0.html

proo212:

For the sake of argument lest you think I am convinced by your rebuttal, if these is so much uncertainty, (which is true, which is not true)(what do sunnis believe, what do shias believe) how does a muslim grow in the faith? The only way i can think of is to listen to the Imams and scholars and not read the hadiths since they are "authentic but not reliable" (can you see how that sounds?).

You know what happens when you base your faith in the hands of mullah and imams? Whatever the imams say you do. Go and kill, no problem. Jihad is needed no problem, America is the enemy of Islam (protest on the streets, they have drawn a cartoon about our prophet, protest on the streets. Women should not buy cucumber or banana because they might think bad things

There is no consistency in quran. The first time I heard about hadith is when i came to this forum and i was told you need it to interpret the quran. Now I hear they are authentic but not reliable,

What to do?

I wonder o.