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The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) - Politics (9) - Nairaland

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Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by joeyfire(m): 5:11pm On Feb 10, 2012
russellino:

I know not too many ppl know that an african-american mercenary was hired to take part in the kiriji (though I can't recall which side imported him) he was a veteran of the american civil war and was brought in to operate the then new Gatlin gun that the ppl didn't know how to operate. I heard he took a yoruba woman back as his wife. Can any scholars in d house shed more light on this? I heard this story from one old baba

Very true bro. The man in question fought on the side of the Ekiti-Parapos against the ibadans. Point of correction though, he wasnt hired to fight, he actually volunteered to fight under my great great grand uncle, Ogendengbe Gbogungboro. Also his weapon of choice wasnt the ''Gatlin Gun'' but a Schneider Rifle which outranged the muskets of the ibadan people. He was able to pick ibadan commanders of their horses and became something of a legend. He was a mullato by the way. I have to ask my dad for his name
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 5:12pm On Feb 10, 2012
Wao, what a tread grin The most enlightened thread on the politics section so far cheesy I have been following it since it was opened wink Please keep it up
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by joeyfire(m): 5:17pm On Feb 10, 2012
^^^forgot to add the american was the first sniper on present day nigerian soil
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by tpia5: 5:25pm On Feb 10, 2012
Samuel johnson's being oyo in no way affects the quality of his work.

Everybody has to be from somewhere so what's the big deal.

In this instance, we are talking about a detailed and scholarly work, not some random get together.

My dad had a copy of samuel johnson's book and he wasnt oyo.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Yinkay: 5:39pm On Feb 10, 2012
The words in italics were excerpts from the book by Samuel Johnson when the Ibadan army are complaining of the undue advantage from the expertriate shooters. The complete ebook can be downloaded here, http://www.archive.org/details/historyofyorubas00john

We know that this is not the
actual white man of Ijaye, whom we often saw in the battlefield
:
this one only entered the town a few days ago, hence you have
such easy terms, otherwise we should have killed him right out,
for he fought us, and we had our eyes on him." Mr. Mann we know
did not fight, but reHeved the wounded men; however, there were
two " Afro American " sharp-shooters,^ who harassed the Ibadans
a good deal with their rifles.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 5:46pm On Feb 10, 2012
Yinkay:

The words in italics were excerpts from the book by Samuel Johnson when the Ibadan army are complaining of the undue advantage from the expertriate shooters. The complete ebook can be downloaded here, http://www.archive.org/details/historyofyorubas00john

We know that this is not the
actual white man of Ijaye, whom we often saw in the battlefield
:
this one only entered the town a few days ago, hence you have
such easy terms, otherwise we should have killed him right out,
for he fought us, and we had our eyes on him." Mr. Mann we know
did not fight, but reHeved the wounded men; however, there were
two " Afro American " sharp-shooters,^ who harassed the Ibadans
a good deal with their rifles.


This was actually the Ijaye war 1860-62.

During the Iperu war, which was just after the Ijaiye war, there was an American called Pettiford (he may have been one of the two sharpshooters mentioned above), a markman who fought with the Egbas, Ijaiye, and Ijebu, who killed a number of Ibadan war chiefs. Ogunmola himself was almost killed.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 5:54pm On Feb 10, 2012
@ interested readers
Please ignore those who have nothing intelligent to contribute other than self ridicule.

Concur 100%!!

Some of these clowns just post comments for the sake of it, and just argue for the sake of it smh,
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by naijababe(f): 6:01pm On Feb 10, 2012
Katz!!! angry angry angry Why u no tell me about this thread?

The size of my head now will rival a jabulani. Yorubas eh!

DK, I was hoping you'd say more about Ojo Aburumaku's wars. He along with Basorun Gaa are my favourite Ogbomoso scions.

All positive contributors kiss
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 6:02pm On Feb 10, 2012
@Katsumoto

Can you please give talk about the Ioeru war

I'm interested in knowing the history of my people from the maternal side,
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 6:32pm On Feb 10, 2012
naijababe:

Katz!!! angry angry angry Why u no tell me about this thread?

The size of my head now will rival a jabulani. Yorubas eh!

DK, I was hoping you'd say more about Ojo Aburumaku's wars. He along with Basorun Gaa are my favourite Ogbomoso scions.

All positive contributors  kiss

Bashorun Gaa  shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked

The man who caused for a quick succession of Alaafins before he was defeated by Alaafin Abiodun. The man was a despot. Ojo Aburumaku was the only Kakanfo who took a position held by his father but also the only Kakanfo that fought no battles/wars. Latosa also took the title from him through a show of strength by demanding the staff of office.

shymmex:

@Katsumoto

Can you please give talk about the Ioeru war

I'm interested in knowing the history of my people from the maternal side,

There were two Iperu wars. The first was during the reign of Baale Oluyedun (approximately 1830-40) and the second was immediately after the Ijaiye war 91862). Both times, Iperu fell to the Egbas but would be rescued by Ibadan. In the first, it Lakanle who rescued Iperu and in the second, it was Ogunmola. Iperu Remo produced many businessman who made their fortune by supplying the Ibadans with firearms. Hence why they were always rescued by Ibadan. During the Kijiji war, Iperu would be besieged again by the Egba to prevent the flow of firearms to Ibadan. This time, Ibadan had too many battles to fight that it couldn't rescue Iperu.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by afinic001(m): 7:06pm On Feb 10, 2012
@op, pls visit imesi ekiti(in ekiti state) and imesi ile(osun state). U wl see the war camps there. Best of luck.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by dayokanu(m): 7:24pm On Feb 10, 2012
Katsumoto:

Bashorun Gaa shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked

The man who caused for a quick succession of Alaafins before he was defeated by Alaafin Abiodun. The man was a despot. Ojo Aburumaku was the only Kakanfo who took a position held by his father but also the only Kakanfo that fought no battles/wars. Latosa also took the title from him through a show of strength by demanding the staff of office.

Ojo Aburumaku of Ogbomoso fought no battles, there being no wars during his period; the change that has taken place in the country left the Ibadans at this time masters of all warlike operations. But in order to keep his hand in, he fomented a civil war at Ogbomoso which he also repressed with vigor.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by naijababe(f): 7:32pm On Feb 10, 2012
Katsumoto:

Bashorun Gaa  shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked


Forgive me Katz but I'm a complicated female. My interest in Gaa is mainly due to his strength and how he tormented others, he's prolly some little man like Napoleon (Is it true that he used an Alaafin's daughter for sacrifice?  shocked. In fact, he was the only reason why Oyabi became noteworthy historically.

DK, any detailed account of Ojo Aburumaku anywhere? Your post is pretty much all i have read of him.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by isalegan2: 7:53pm On Feb 10, 2012
Negro_Ntns:

I think I will ask OAM4J or Jarus to see what they can do for us in this regard.  It will be a central collection of highly valuable and informational materials dealing strictly with the race.  

Negro,
I saw your request to the Politics Moderators.  I guess you wanted their input so the thread could be stickied?  Were you thinking of something like this? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-231017.0.html

Let's see about getting an History Section.  Regardless, I'll be happy to spend some time finding and linking relevant Historical threads and indexing them.  It might be better to have input from other posters as well, by having them recommend threads to be added to the index.

                                                 NAIRALAND NEEDS A HISTORY SECTION
After glancing a post where this was suggested, I have thought about it and fully support it, and have concluded that History Section is exactly what should be requested of Seun.  I make bold to say that it is actually the most essential section that is needed here.  So many of our people are busy copying others, ignorant of their own forebears' greatness, thinking that they walked Unclad climbing trees and eating bugs before colonisation.

Politics section is mostly a place to discuss Current Affairs or Breaking News, and to Debate Policy.  Culture section is good for certain things.  

But Culture is not the place you think of when opening a thread to discuss warfare tactics through the ages, or the right place to share data about events in our history pre-civil war, during colonization and even way before Westerners or others dreamt of coming down the Atlantic to West "Africa."  There are hundreds of topics that can be perused and analysed in the new History Section, I can just picture it.  It will also be a place that will attract lots more readers, including older posters who are sick of the tribal nonsense and just want to discuss subjects in a mature and scholastic way.  There is a million reasons to do this. . .
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by guonno: 7:59pm On Feb 10, 2012
This yoruba people self! So if them dey count people when fight war for this country, una go come out. Ibadan had a quarrel with ekiti and u call it war? Ok naa, two secondary schools had a fight yesterday in warri therefore warri is at war. Lol. I wount even say the sw fought the biafran war because the war was meant to be between NW, NE, and the MIDDLE BELT people. Them yaribas where only follow-follow in the nigerian civil war, taking orders from their oga(hausa/fulani) gowon. IBADAN/EKITI CIVIL WAR KO WAR NI. NDI ALAGBANKO!
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by naijababe(f): 8:04pm On Feb 10, 2012

Did anyone already mention that these wars were also slave raiding adventures by Yorubas to sell their kits and kins to the white man.

I don't think so, the Yorubas were already trading slaves amongst themselves. The conquered automatically became slaves. It is said that even the great Ogunmola was once a slave of Kurunmi, but Ogunmola escaped and went on to become a great war general responsible for the demise of his old master.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by logica(m): 8:20pm On Feb 10, 2012
afinic001:

@op, pls visit imesi ekiti(in ekiti state) and imesi ile(osun state). U wl see the war camps there. Best of luck.
That's my home town (Oke-'mesi) which literally translates to "the hills of Imesi" referring to Imesi Ile. Being hilly it's a very good strategic location to occupy in a war but it's interesting I never saw the camps. My peeps go there often so they should know the locations of the camps (if they still exist).

By the way going by the period of this particular war, I'm not sure slaves were sold off to "white men" considering that slavery had been abolished in Europe and the US (and practically all other slave destinations that come to mind).
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by OAM4J: 8:32pm On Feb 10, 2012
isale_gan2:

Negro,
I saw your request to the Politics Moderators.  I guess you wanted their input so the thread could be stickied?  Were you thinking of something like this? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-231017.0.html

Let's see about getting an History Section.  Regardless, I'll be happy to spend some time finding and linking relevant Historical threads and indexing them.  It might be better to have input from other posters as well, by having them recommend threads to be added to the index.

                                                 NAIRALAND NEEDS A HISTORY SECTION
After glancing a post where this was suggested, I have thought about it and fully support it, and have concluded that History Section is exactly what should be requested of Seun.  I make bold to say that it is actually the most essential section that is needed here.  So many of our people are busy copying others, ignorant of their own forebears' greatness, thinking that they walked Unclad climbing trees and eating bugs before colonisation.

Politics section is mostly a place to discuss Current Affairs or Breaking News, and to Debate Policy.  Culture section is good for certain things.  

But Culture is not the place you think of when opening a thread to discuss warfare tactics through the ages, or the right place to share data about events in our history pre-civil war, during colonization and even way before Westerners or others dreamt of coming down the Atlantic to West "Africa."  There are hundreds of topics that can be perused and analysed in the new History Section, I can just picture it.  It will also be a place that will attract lots more readers, including older posters who are sick of the tribal nonsense and just want to discuss subjects in a mature and scholastic way.  There is a million reasons to do this. . .


On Topic:
I thought about that too and it is an unanswered question in my mind and one of the things that bothers me about all the wars and the famous Ogedengbe.  undecided lipsrsealed

There is no need to have History section when there is a Culture section. I doubt that request will be granted. So don't waste your time.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by anonimi: 8:35pm On Feb 10, 2012
OAM4J:

There is no need to have History section when there is a Culture section. I doubt that request will be granted. So don't waste your time.

It should not be a waste of time.
i second the request and hope it will be carefully and positively considered by Seun either as a completely separate section or as a mini-section under culture, at the least.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by OAM4J: 8:36pm On Feb 10, 2012
Our dear historians,

Another Yoruba war I would like to know more about is Ogun Adubi. Any information.

When I was younger, I used to like the song: Ogun Adubi to to ju mi ja . . ." i still remember part of the song. . . very funny especially the part "Iya re n be lo bi ewure, baba re nbelo bi igala"  cheesy
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by logica(m): 8:39pm On Feb 10, 2012
OAM4J:

. . . very funny especially the part "Iya re n be lo bi ewure, baba re nbelo bi igala"  cheesy
That used to get me literally rolling on the floor because I visualize the father and mother running for their dear lives. Iyen ni won n pe ni "sa asala fun emi re".
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by naijababe(f): 8:41pm On Feb 10, 2012
OAM4J:

Our dear historians,

Another Yoruba war I would like to know more about is Ogun Adubi. Any information.

When I was younger, I used to like the song: Ogun Adubi to to ju mi ja . . ." i still remember part of the song. . . very funny especially the part "Iya re n be lo bi ewure, baba re nbelo bi igala"  cheesy

Finish the song now grin grin grin grin grin baba agba
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by 9jacrip: 8:42pm On Feb 10, 2012
Katsumoto:

The question is where do historians get their information from? They get it from old relics and written materials from the era they are studying. Samuel Johnson himself included information from eras that preceded him through other accounts. The information that Johnson got from being present is far more valuable than information that would have been told as legends, stories, etc. Johnson's account is formidable because HE WROTE it down. You may not know this but Johnson's original manuscript was lost by the publisher. It was his brother Obadiah (a doctor) who wrote the book from Johnson's ORIGINAL notes.

The point of reading a book is not accept it wholeheartedly but to analyse the facts and superimpose your own thought process. It was Aristotle who said 'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. A true scholar will not read Johnson's account alone but others. Many books have been written by other scholars such Akinjogbin, Awe, Akintoye, Smith, Ade-Ajayi, Jeremy Eades. But guess what, many of these other historians quote Johnson because of the level of detail in his notes.

If Christiane Amanpour wrote a book about the Balkan wars, would you disregard it because she was present? Would you instead prefer a book that was written by a man/woman who visited the Balkans 50 years after the war and received information from people who were 7 years old during the war?  

The reason why scholars say Johnson's book is Oyocentric is because Johnson is from Oyo. But should that fact remove from an excellently detailed book? Secondly, Johnson can be forgiven for that because Oyo was the most important Yoruba town. The Yoruba are known as far as Ghana because of the Oyo. When writing Roman history pre Jesus and 800 years after Jesus, how much time do you spend on Florence? Thirdly, Johnson did not ignore other Yoruba towns in his book. The history of about every Yoruba settlement is covered.


@ interested readers
Please ignore those who have nothing intelligent to contribute other than self ridicule.



Mr. Katsumoto - you're someone whose post I usually read w/out questioning and just get to wonder if you studied history? From what you wrote as a response to my post, it appears you only have an INTEREST in history or just follow it, yes?

Like you said, historians get their details from relics and written materials from the era they're studying, yes and that is where Samuel Johnson's work falls in because he was ATTACHED to the periodization - I don't know how to explain it but true historians don't take account of their immediate era. You cited Aristotle, but I would cite Herodotus instead who is usually regarded as the 'father of history' by some, but some give that to someone else (can't recall the name) because Herodotus' accounts were taken down during his period, hence seen to be Chronicles rather than historical facts due to 'sentiments' attached which is only human. If you're asked to write about President Jonathan's tenure there would be sentiments either opposing or supporting, yes? But if you conduct interviews many years later and give two sides of the theme then it would become credible and open to further criticism which is only historical since no historical records are ever final - I hope I've made sense?

The Akinjogbin and co you cited were those who made Yoruba history credible because they did a thorough critique of Samuel Johnson's work or it served as a guiding point, and you didn't mention Toyin Falola, the foremost Yoruba historian? Kenneth Dike et al? The people you mentioned emerged as a result of an opposition to Eurocentric history documentation of Yoruba history which the Europeans had sway over - a typical example of Samuel Johnson's work.

Samuel Johnson's work cannot be disputed as the starting point for Yoruba history documentation but it is based on Oyo view point and excessive mythology and legends rather than a deep analysis and critique - and in response to your Oyo being the most important Yoruba town at a time - Oyo came and went, there was Benin Kingdom too, it came and went - the history written by one of Benin Kings was so Benin-centric that almost all historian debunked it, I cant remember the king's name right now - Christina Amapour's work would be a Chronicle or Journalism - history is far different to/from Journalism, never make a mistake of comparing either, please.

What I'm saying is, Samuel Johnson's work should be cited mostly when pointing at/to an oral account -


Thank you.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 8:45pm On Feb 10, 2012
History and politics go together. If you put great threads in the culture or foreign affairs sections, they die early.

Threads such as this should remain in the politics section.

Of what use is a great product if it doesn't reach a high percentage of your target market?
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by OAM4J: 8:47pm On Feb 10, 2012
anonimi:

It should not be a waste of time.
i second the request and hope it will be carefully and positively considered by Seun either as a completely separate section or as a mini-section under culture, at the least.

Well there is no harm in trying. I am only giving an insider information as a moderator. The Aim right now is to reduce the sections for easier management and not to add more (If you noticed lately, some sections are being merged). Also we don't have history threads coming up everyday.

I support having the Yoruba history library thread, and we can also advocate that the thread be stickied.

But then you can open a thread in Nairaland Section requesting for history Section. I will actually be glad it is granted. So I wish you good luck.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by OAM4J: 8:50pm On Feb 10, 2012
naijababe:

Finish the song now grin grin grin grin grin baba agba

You can help me finish the song now Iyalode. After all you witnessed the war grin
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by naijababe(f): 8:52pm On Feb 10, 2012
^ He's gat jokes grin Even my grandma didn't witness ogun Adubi
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by 9jacrip: 8:56pm On Feb 10, 2012
I saw your request to the Politics Moderators.  I guess you wanted their input so the thread could be stickied?  Were you thinking of something like this? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-231017.0.html

Let's see about getting an History Section.  Regardless, I'll be happy to spend some time finding and linking relevant Historical threads and indexing them.  It might be better to have input from other posters as well, by having them recommend threads to be added to the index.

                                                 NAIRALAND NEEDS A HISTORY SECTION
After glancing a post where this was suggested, I have thought about it and fully support it, and have concluded that [b]History Section
is exactly what should be requested of Seun.  I make bold to say that it is actually the most essential section that is needed here.  So many of our people are busy copying others, ignorant of their own forebears' greatness, thinking that they walked Unclad climbing trees and eating bugs before colonisation.

Politics section is mostly a place to discuss Current Affairs or Breaking News, and to Debate Policy.  Culture section is good for certain things.  

But Culture is not the place you think of when opening a thread to discuss warfare tactics through the ages, or the right place to share data about events in our history pre-civil war, during colonization and even way before Westerners or others dreamt of coming down the Atlantic to West "Africa."  There are hundreds of topics that can be perused and analysed in the new History Section, I can just picture it.  It will also be a place that will attract lots more readers, including older posters who are sick of the tribal nonsense and just want to discuss subjects in a mature and scholastic way.  There is a million reasons to do this. . . [/b]


I feel having a history section would be great, lets get Seun's attention to get this done.


Katsumoto:

History and politics go together. If you put great threads in the culture or foreign affairs sections, they die early.

Threads such as this should remain in the politics section.

Of what use is a great product if it doesn't reach a high percentage of your target market?



Mr. Katsu - history and politics are different, except you referred to political history? Same way we have Economic history? Cultural history? ETC?
History section should be carved out, history itself is one of the basic lifelines of humanity please - politics as a field is very recent so don't put the cart before the horse please.


OAM4J:


Well there is no harm in trying. I am only giving an insider information as a moderator. The Aim right now is to reduce the sections for easier management and not to add more (If you noticed lately, some sections are being merged). Also we don't have history threads coming up everyday.

I support having the Yoruba history library thread, and we can also advocate that the thread be stickied.

But then you can open a thread in Nairaland Section requesting for history Section. I will actually be glad it is granted. So I wish you good luck.

As much as I'm crazy about my Yoruba heritage I'd have to say a section dedicated to history shouldn't be a Yoruba history section alone because we other ethnicity(s) all over Africa have histories too and scholars on whatever topic - so let's just have a history section alone, thank you.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by OAM4J: 8:58pm On Feb 10, 2012
Katsumoto:

History and politics go together. If you put great threads in the culture or foreign affairs sections, they die early.

Threads such as this should remain in the politics section.

Of what use is a great product if it doesn't reach a high percentage of your target market?

We can try and make a case for having some of the threads in Politics section possibly with the library thread. What am not sure will sell is having history section.

Reaching the target market is a better argument than the claim of history being closer related to politics than culture. Not many people will agree with that.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by zmoni: 9:01pm On Feb 10, 2012
There is a place in Sierra-Leone called Wellington, most of the inhabitants i believed are descendants of Ijesa, Ekiti and Ondo, those folk always say that their town is the birth place of the group or organization called" Ekitiparapo".
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ACM10: 9:17pm On Feb 10, 2012
Katsumoto:

History and politics go together. If you put great threads in the culture or foreign affairs sections, they die early.

Threads such as this should remain in the politics section.

Of what use is a great product if it doesn't reach a high percentage of your target market?

Only a revisionist will say that history and politics go together.

This has confirmed my suspicion about you that you have a malicious intention.

History should be objective and devoid of political bias.

So continue to miseducate your tribesmen with your myths
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by 9jacrip: 9:19pm On Feb 10, 2012
OAM4J:

We can try and make a case for having some of the threads in Politics section possibly with the library thread. What am not sure will sell is having history section.

Reaching the target market is a better argument than the claim of history being closer related to politics than culture. Not many people will agree with that.

Sir, politics should be under history section instead.


ACM10:

Only a revisionist will say that history and politics go together.

This has confirmed my suspicion about you that you have a malicious intention.

History should be objective and devoid of political bias.

So continue to miseducate your tribesmen with your myths


Kats baba - thank you. I hope NL owner would be kind enough to set up - history section.

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