Kilode?!:

Ayo Fayose is that you?  

. . . You no serious

hercules07:

The british kicked their behind and the Ibadans were not too interested in that area as the overriding objective was to get Ilorin and to push the Fulanis back, civilisation initially came from the North before the arrival of the British. The Ijebus were good warriors sha but there were quite a few wars and battles with the Ibadans that were usually settled no victor no vanquished.

Speechless.

Kilode?!:

This is wrong.

Explain what you mean by civilization.

Thank you o jare.  

Continuing with sentiments previously expressed by other commenters, this is a valuable and informative thread where the lively participatory and contributory style is making it even more interesting.  

I hope that people can see why some of us favor a united Nigeria that serves as a beacon for the rest of Africa.  Learn from history.  If you don't know your history, you are doomed to neverending failure.  Understand that people will always find reasons to break into smaller and smaller parts.  Yes, each ethnic group is "united" now, but break Nigeria into 2 or 3 parts, with the Yorubas in their Odualand and the Igbos in their Biafra, and the same sentiments that tore Nigeria apart will rear its ugly jealous hateful head in each of those new countries!  I;m not saying anyone is particularly prone to wars, but it takes a small group of disaffected people to get the populace riled up against a phantom oppressor.

I don't want to belabour things.  I only want to emphasise the need to be less myopic.  So many people want Nigeria to break apart because of tribal sentiments - well, trust me, when you don't have the Igbos or Hausas or Yorubas to kick around anymore, you will turn on yourselves.  If it's not tribal or clannish, it will be religious.  It happens all the time.  (India continues to deal with "tribal" issues, just as Pakistan, ever since their breakup.)

How long will Africa continue to break up?  Nigeria into 3 parts?  Then each of those new "nations" break up further - before it's all done, Nigeria will have broken up into 240 tribal countries.  Or maybe each clan  will have it's own country.  lol.  

/off my soapbox.  It had to be said.  No offense sha.   

Back on topic.  

baksonlee:

Kats has come again with his anti Ibadan/Oyo sentiments. Awolowo is extremely loved by the Ibadans
Is it true that there was no city called Ibadan before 1829? The Ibadan indigenes today were from Oyo(50%) Ife(25%) Ijebu(25%) approximately.

LOL at the bold.

About the existence of Ibadan it might be true

baksonlee:

Kats has come again with his anti Ibadan/Oyo sentiments. Awolowo is extremely loved by the Ibadans

Is it true that there was no city called Ibadan before 1829? The Ibadan indigenes today were from Oyo(50%) Ife(25%) Ijebu(25%) approximately.

Hahahaha

I am only stating what I believe to be true.

But you didn't think I was expressing anti-Ibadan sentiments when I stated that Oyo (Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Oyo) produced the most fearsome warriors in Yorubaland. No Yoruba city state could have faced Ibadan when it had Oluyole, Ibikunle, and Ogunmola (those are my favorite warriors).

Kilode?!:

This is wrong.

Explain what you mean by civilization.

Yes Hercules must explain that comment. I guess its because of comments like that that Smith and other Europeans asked Sultan Bello about the origins of the Yoruba.

dayokanu:

LOL at the bold.

You too find it funny abi?

Kilode?!:

Ayo "Jmaine" Fayose is that you?  

It must be.

@Kats and Kilode

The interior was more concerned about moving northwards than coast wards, we had been having contacts with the fulanis and other tribes northward than before the portugi, when I say civilization (maybe I should have used early modern civilization), we all know that the fulanis were more advanced than us because of their contact with the arabs who were more advanced than them, they brought some of those enlightenment to us, abi that one no be civilization, I do not mean it in a perjorative manner sha, of course after our contact with the "white man" modern civilization now came from the coasts.

Lagos maintained its independence (under the continued protection of the British)

ahh!!  who said this?  

Have you heard about Kosoko?  Omo Oba to'n jagun bi eru . . .Ogb'ori olori kale l'orun gangan gan. . . .  the Machiavellian son of the soil that kicked British a s s to the point they expended all resources in their control towards pacifying and carving out his own Empire for him in Ereko if he would just stop invading and waging trouble against their principal interest.  The most fiercesome warrior ever produced in either of Yoruba or Bini domains.

Seun, ban Katsumoto for insulting Lagos.  In fact, I'll tell you what. . . penalize his pocket first, then ban him from future participation.  

No more talk about Lagos. . this is about Kiriji.    

@Ufe

You people should have chilled now, you distracted us from our main aim, we could have given you free hand to plunder the yorubas in Kogi  .

The interior was more concerned about moving northwards than coast wards, we had been having contacts with the fulanis and other tribes northward than before the portugi, when I say civilization (maybe I should have used early modern civilization), we all know that the fulanis were more advanced than us because of their contact with the arabs who were more advanced than them, they brought some of those enlightenment to us, abi that one no be civilization, I do not mean it in a perjorative manner sha, of course after our contact with the "white man" modern civilization now came from the coasts.

Seun, . . . . dont ban this hercules, just fire him, period!

@Negro

We are talking about 17th - 19th Century Yoruba, we learnt a lot from them, we were not inferior but they were more enlightened.

hercules07:

@Negro

We are talking about 17th - 19th Century Yoruba, we learnt a lot from them, we were not inferior but they were more enlightened.

You're just making it worse! 


P.S. I am referring to the original comment (the way I understood it) about any culture, Europeans included, bringing Yorubas/Africans "civilization."

@all

They had access to Arabian civilization, we (yoruba interior) did not, I am talking of the fulanis not the hausas o, we do not need to deny this now and it was not even meant to be in a negative light, it is a testament to our fore fathers that before the end of their time, they were able to relate as equals.

This is a war fought by Cowards??
[size=30pt]Lisabi Agbongboakala[/size] will have defeated even the union of all those fighting without even moving his hand.

hercules,

I dont care if you talk about 5 and a half century. . . .fulani more enlightened than Yoruba?  Is that what you said  

Do you know what an Empire means. . . . particularly in an African context of pre colonialism?  No automobile, no aircraft, distances were covered on horseback and took days.  Oyo went as far as Asante Empire and Mali Empire. . . took offensive to depose their Kings and subdue them into paying tribute to Alaafin.  Yoruba alone spun off three Empires. . . Oyo, Ife and Bini.  Beside the Jihad which largely succeeded because of Hausa support against their Kings and the coup plot of Afinja in Ilorin. . . what other expedition did Fulani took or won in this country?   Compare that to the numerous times Oyo fought the fearsome Dahomey and its world renowned Amazons or obliterated the Nupes and then drove the Asante out and beyond the Volta.  

Dude. , .

Negro_Ntns:

ahh!!  who said this?  

Have you heard about Kosoko?  Omo Oba to'n jagun bi eru . . .Ogb'ori olori kale l'orun gangan gan. . . .  the Machiavellian son of the soil that kicked British a s s to the point they expended all resources in their control towards pacifying and carving out his own Empire for him in Ereko if he would just stop invading and waging trouble against their principal interest.  The most fiercesome warrior ever produced in either of Yoruba or Bini domains.

Seun, ban Katsumoto for insulting Lagos.  In fact, I'll tell you what. . . penalize his pocket first, then ban him from future participation.  

No more talk about Lagos. . this is about Kiriji.    

LWMKD

Ok, I am apologize to all the Lagos people. You had one small warrior.  

hercules07:

@all

They had access to Arabian civilization, we (yoruba interior) did not, I am talking of the fulanis not the hausas o, we do not need to deny this now and it was not even meant to be in a negative light, it is a testament to our fore fathers that before the end of their time, they were able to relate as equals.

Glad you are not speaking for me; the Yoruba sons must want to OCCUPY Ibadan right now.

But I imagine you are speaking for Oyo Yoruba and not for the Eko, Egba, Ijebu, Ondo, Ekiti who had been in contact with the Europeans.

isale_gan2:

Speechless.

Thank you o jare.  

Continuing with sentiments previously expressed by other commenters, this is a valuable and informative thread where the lively participatory and contributory style is making it even more interesting.  

I hope that people can see why some of us favor a united Nigeria that serves as a beacon for the rest of Africa.  Learn from history.  If you don't know your history, you are doomed to neverending failure.  Understand that people will always find reasons to break into smaller and smaller parts.  Yes, each ethnic group is "united" now, but break Nigeria into 2 or 3 parts, with the Yorubas in their Odualand and the Igbos in their Biafra, and the same sentiments that tore Nigeria apart will rear its ugly jealous hateful head in each of those new countries!  I;m not saying anyone is particularly prone to wars, but it takes a small group of disaffected people to get the populace riled up against a phantom oppressor.

I don't want to belabour things.  I only want to emphasise the need to be less myopic.  So many people want Nigeria to break apart because of tribal sentiments - well, trust me, when you don't have the Igbos or Hausas or Yorubas to kick around anymore, you will turn on yourselves.  If it's not tribal or clannish, it will be religious.  It happens all the time.  (India continues to deal with "tribal" issues, just as Pakistan, ever since their breakup.)

How long will Africa continue to break up?  Nigeria into 3 parts?  Then each of those new "nations" break up further - before it's all done, Nigeria will have broken up into 240 tribal countries.  Or maybe each clan  will have it's own country.  lol.  

/off my soapbox.  It had to be said.  No offense sha.   

Back on topic.  

Can I get on that soapbox? Thank you.

Ok here it goes;

I understand the need for unity and all that Pan African, Pan Nigerian good stuff, it's a valid argument, but it's hard to force unity upon yourself in the face of untold hardship and pure exploitation. Yes, I too want Nigeria to remain united but when that unity is an impediment to Development, a tool for control and a yoke that is pulled and controlled by a minority group of overlords it's hard to see the need for it.

Unity in Nigeria was the song our Military controlled Government sang for several decades, it was their main tool of control, the excuse upon which many acts of inhumanity were based and explained away.

Yes. we cannot rule out conflict even in the most homogenous of societies, afterall brothers from monogamous homes do fight, but it becomes too big to swallow when that idea of unity is a tool of oppression in itself.

For example, Gowon, after the Biafran war declared no victor no vanquished, which was one the dumbest statements ever made by a Nigerian leader. The mentality that brought about that declaration from Gowon is the prevalent mentality in Nigerian leadership, I'll explain:

Gowon, through that statement, rolled into motion another 3 decades of Ostriching, his inability to deal with the main Nigerian questions. Which is "why are we together" what is the basis of our unity? What are the binding ideals of this nation? Led us to where we are today, of course Gowon did not create Nigeria, but he wasted a great opportunity by hiding the cause of that war under the idea of "no victor no vanquished"

I told that story because I see many defenders of unity doing the same. Unity is not a virtue if it's resultant effects are oppression, poverty and disillusionment, we cannot have unity in the absence of liberty, freedom and equality.

Those egalitarian principles are missing in this country. We've had several opportunities to correct and reset it, but we've constantly failed to take advantage of them. So I seriously sympathise with those who are calling for a foundational shake-up or even a break up, something that will radically force us to answer the questions demanded by our forced togetherness.

Until we answer those fundamental questions, this faux unity will remain a liability, a very good tool in the hands of those who seek to profit from our chaotic arrangement.

The lessons of the Kiriji wars are clear in this context, unity is possible, but it must not be based on fear and oppression. It must be in the spirit of shared values that are tempered with egalitarian principles. No idea is more important than our collective well being. Even unity.

I now step down from the soap box  

Negro_Ntns:

hercules,

I dont care if you talk about 5 and a half century. . . .fulani more enlightened than Yoruba?  Is that what you said  

Do you know what an Empire means. . . . particularly in an African context of pre colonialism?  No automobile, no aircraft, distances were covered on horseback and took days.  Oyo went as far as Asante Empire and Mali Empire. . . took offensive to depose their Kings and subdue them into paying tribute to Alaafin.  Yoruba alone spun off three Empires. . . Oyo, Ife and Bini.  Beside the Jihad which largely succeeded because of Hausa support against their Kings and the coup plot of Afinja in Ilorin. . . what other expedition did Fulani took or won in this country?   Compare that to the numerous times Oyo fought the fearsome Dahomey and its world renowned Amazons or obliterated the Nupes and then drove the Asante out and beyond the Volta.  

Dude. ,  .

To add to that - You missed out Ibadan but I doubt the Bini will agree to being included in that comment.

The Egba under John Okenla also defeated the Dahomians several times but the Egba not being aggressive warriors refused to finish them off.

Kilode?!:

Can I get on that soapbox? Thank you.

Ok here it goes;

I understand the need for unity and all that Pan African, Pan Nigerian good stuff, it's a valid argument, but it's hard to force unity upon yourself in the face of untold hardship and pure exploitation. Yes, I too want Nigeria to remain united but when that unity is an impediment to Development, a tool for control and a yoke that is pulled and controlled by a minority group of overlords it's hard to see the need for it.

Unity in Nigeria was the song our Military controlled Government sang for several decades, it was their main tool of control, the excuse upon which many acts of inhumanity were based and explained away.

Yes. we cannot rule out conflict even in the most homogenous of societies, afterall brothers from monogamous homes do fight, but it becomes too big to swallow when that idea of unity is a tool of oppression in itself.

For example, Gowon, after the Biafran war declared no victor no vanquished, which was one the dumbest statements ever made by a Nigerian leader. The mentality that brought about that declaration from Gowon is the prevalent mentality in Nigerian leadership, I'll explain:

Gowon, through that statement, rolled into motion another 3 decades of Ostriching, his inability to deal with the main Nigerian questions. Which is "why are we together" what is the basis of our unity? What are the binding ideals of this nation? Led us to where we are today, of course Gowon did not create Nigeria, but he wasted a great opportunity by hiding the cause of that war under the idea of "no victor no vanquished"

I told that story because I see many defenders of unity doing the same. Unity is not a virtue if it's resultant effects are oppression, poverty and disillusionment, we cannot have unity in the absence of liberty, freedom and equality.

Those egalitarian principles are missing in this country. We've had several opportunities to correct and reset it, but we've constantly failed to take advantage of them. So I seriously sympathise with those who are calling for a foundational shake-up or even a break up, something that will radically force us to answer the questions demanded by our forced togetherness.

Until we answer those fundamental questions, this faux unity will remain a liability, a very good tool in the hands of those who seek to profit from our chaotic arrangement.

The lessons of the Kiriji wars are clear in this context, unity is possible, but it must not be based on fear and oppression. It must be in the spirit of shared values that are tempered with egalitarian principles. No idea is more important than our collective well being. Even unity.

I now step down from the soap box  

Preach bro, preach

seanet02:

This is a war fought by Cowards??
Lisabi Agbongboakala will have defeated even the union of all those fighting without even moving his hand.

     

Comic relief.  


hmmm.  Where have I heard that cutting with a sword by just thinking about it comment before?

Did Negro just mentioned Kososko?
Have you ever heard about Liasbi Agbongboakala?
When we are discussing of Warriors, Don' t ever mentioned that name again. Even Iyalode Tinubu will wipe Kosoko 's azz if they have met.
That poo warrior

Hercules,

Hegemony is not Civilization.

Bro, Arabs, Romans or the English did not civilize my people, the same way your Iyan-loving friend did not civilize you just because he influenced you to take up ikokore instead of pounded Iyan.

Arabs counted, I counted. Just because they wrote out their own stuff in Arabic numerals or Roman ones did not invalidate my own Oyeku Ogbe meji knowledge.

Mullah Sheik Abdullahi wrote symbols Baba Awo Ifasiminiye wrote Okan, eji, eta, erin. Counting is counting, they civilized me NOT.

I understand the need for unity and all that Pan African, Pan Nigerian good stuff, it's a valid argument, but it's hard to force unity upon yourself in the face of untold hardship and pure exploitation. Yes, I too want Nigeria to remain united but when that unity is an impediment to Development, a tool for control and a yoke that is pulled and controlled by a minority group of overlords it's hard to see the need for it.

Unity in Nigeria was the song our Military controlled Government sang for several decades, it was their main tool of control, the excuse upon which many acts of inhumanity were based and explained away.

Yes. we cannot rule out conflict even in the most homogenous of societies, afterall brothers from monogamous homes do fight, but it becomes too big to swallow when that idea of unity is a tool of oppression in itself.

For example, Gowon, after the Biafran war declared no victor no vanquished, which was one the dumbest statements ever made by a Nigerian leader. The mentality that brought about that declaration from Gowon is the prevalent mentality in Nigerian leadership, I'll explain:

Gowon, through that statement, rolled into motion another 3 decades of Ostriching, his inability to deal with the main Nigerian questions. Which is "why are we together" what is the basis of our unity? What are the binding ideals of this nation? Led us to where we are today, of course Gowon did not create Nigeria, but he wasted a great opportunity by hiding the cause of that war under the idea of "no victor no vanquished"

I told that story because I see many defenders of unity doing the same. Unity is not a virtue if it's resultant effects are oppression, poverty and disillusionment, we cannot have unity in the absence of liberty, freedom and equality.

Those egalitarian principles are missing in this country. We've had several opportunities to correct and reset it, but we've constantly failed to take advantage of them. So I seriously sympathise with those who are calling for a foundational shake-up or even a break up, something that will radically force us to answer the questions demanded by our forced togetherness.

Until we answer those fundamental questions, this faux unity will remain a liability, a very good tool in the hands of those who seek to profit from our chaotic arrangement.

The lessons of the Kiriji wars are clear in this context, unity is possible, but it must not be based on fear and oppression. It must be in the spirit of shared values that are tempered with egalitarian principles. No idea is more important than our collective well being. Even unity.

I now step down from the soap box

. . . . Im searching for words to remark on this response and my tongue is locked, I cant find the voice. Kilode, may Oduduwa be with you, may Oranmiyan be with you, may Sango be with you. . . . may all the illuminated souls of Yoruba commonwealth who form an embodiment of Oduduwa be with you, Ase!

Did Negro just mentioned Kososko?
Have you ever heard about Liasbi Agbongboakala?
When we are discussing of Warriors, Don' t ever mentioned that name again. Even Iyalode Tinubu will wipe Kosoko 's azz if they have met.
That poo warrior

. . . who was this Lisabi Agbokonla? I mentioned a warrior that did what no other African coastal power had ever done or dared to do to the invading European - terrorized them and forced them into a compromise, rather than adopt their terms by default. You must have mistaken Kosoko for Akitoye and Dosumu. Repeated bombardment of Lagos by British only succeeded by an act of luck. . . and not by virtue of tactical or strategic superiority to Kosoko's defense of his domain. You cannot talk about him without mentioning his war general - Oshodi Tapa. First read about Oshodi then come for lesson on the commander himself.

Negro straps on his war armor

Negro_Ntns:

. . . who was this Lisabi Agbokonla? I mentioned a warrior that did what no other African coastal power had ever done or dared to do to the invading European - terrorized them and forced them into a compromise, rather than adopt their terms by default. You must have mistaken Kosoko for Akitoye and Dosumu. Repeated bombardment of Lagos by British only succeeded by an act of luck. . . and not by virtue of tactical or strategic superiority to Kosoko's defense of his domain. You cannot talk about him without mentioning his war general - Oshodi Tapa. First read about Oshodi then come for lesson on the commander himself.

Negro straps on his war armor

Lisabi was the Egba warrior who started the revolt against Oyo that would ultimately lead to fall of the Oyo empire. After the Egba fought for and won Independence, the others such as Ijebu, Ijaiye, etc did too.

Kilode?!:

Can I get on that soapbox? Thank you.

Ok here it goes;

I understand the need for unity and all that Pan African, Pan Nigerian good stuff, it's a valid argument, but it's hard to force unity upon yourself in the face of untold hardship and pure exploitation. Yes, I too want Nigeria to remain united but when that unity is an impediment to Development, a tool for control and a yoke that is pulled and controlled by a minority group of overlords it's hard to see the need for it.

Unity in Nigeria was the song our Military controlled Government sang for several decades, it was their main tool of control, the excuse upon which many acts of inhumanity were based and explained away.

Yes. we cannot rule out conflict even in the most homogenous of societies, afterall brothers from monogamous homes do fight, but it becomes too big to swallow when that idea of unity is a tool of oppression in itself.

For example, Gowon, after the Biafran war declared no victor no vanquished, which was one the dumbest statements ever made by a Nigerian leader. The mentality that brought about that declaration from Gowon is the prevalent mentality in Nigerian leadership, I'll explain:

Gowon, through that statement, rolled into motion another 3 decades of Ostriching, his inability to deal with the main Nigerian questions. Which is "why are we together" what is the basis of our unity? What are the binding ideals of this nation? Led us to where we are today, of course Gowon did not create Nigeria, but he wasted a great opportunity by hiding the cause of that war under the idea of "no victor no vanquished"

I told that story because I see many defenders of unity doing the same. Unity is not a virtue if it's resultant effects are oppression, poverty and disillusionment, we cannot have unity in the absence of liberty, freedom and equality.

Those egalitarian principles are missing in this country. We've had several opportunities to correct and reset it, but we've constantly failed to take advantage of them. So I seriously sympathise with those who are calling for a foundational shake-up or even a break up, something that will radically force us to answer the questions demanded by our forced togetherness.

Until we answer those fundamental questions, this faux unity will remain a liability, a very good tool in the hands of those who seek to profit from our chaotic arrangement.

The lessons of the Kiriji wars are clear in this context, unity is possible, but it must not be based on fear and oppression. It must be in the spirit of shared values that are tempered with egalitarian principles. No idea is more important than our collective well being. Even unity.

I now step down from the soap box  

To be honest, I am more for a united Africa than a united "Nigeria."  I don't even care for that imposed name - for lack of a better alternative, I prefer Naija or Naijiria.  A divided Nigeria would make a united Africa less likely, opening us up even more to outside manipulation and neocolonisation.  You can just imagine the aftershock of what a smaller and less "powerful" Nigeria would mean to the continuing survival, not to talk of progress, of African peoples.

You've made a very pointed cogent and succinct defense of your stance.  What can I say?! lol. You're speaking for a lot of people, as reflected in all the thumbs up your post is getting.

I am not critiquing the Kiriji wars on its own.  I made my post because the discussion led me to a place where I had to express my concerns about what may turn out to be a very regrettable outcome of Naija's affairs.  I have always believed this.  

Instead of Naijas to deal with the problems we have, people, not yourself, let regional and tribal sentiments get in the way - to the point where they cannot make any moves or see any progress unless "those other people" (of different culture and different religion) are out of the way.  I suppose I understand.  It's human nature.  The problems of Naija is so massive and far reaching and the suffering of the people is so complete, most can't take care of their most basic needs, not to talk of plannig for the future.  We all feel it acutely. 

You mention Biafra war, Military, lack of egalitarian principles, corruption.  All these problems will still exist in any new "baby-Naija" but now each will find other scapegoats for their problems.  Isn't the government made up of the different people of Naija?  So is the military - as it was during the war and after it.  When the country is divided, the same "leaders" will claim to represent the people.  A man like Obasanjo will still be in that new country of yours.  Probably still in control in front or behind the scenes.  Think about it.  Would you be better off?  If you want to overthrow, overthrow them now.  Or you will have to deal with the same "ruling class" later on.  

But what will be will be.  


All right.  Back on topic:  I am sure Negro was being facetious; he knows who Lisabi was. 

Negro_Ntns:

. . . who was this Lisabi Agbokonla?   I mentioned a warrior that did what no other African coastal power had ever done or dared to do to the invading European - terrorized them and forced them into a compromise, rather than adopt their terms by default.   You must have mistaken Kosoko for Akitoye and Dosumu.   Repeated bombardment of Lagos by British only succeeded by an act of luck. . . and not by virtue of tactical or strategic superiority to Kosoko's defense of his domain.  You cannot talk about him without mentioning his war general - Oshodi Tapa.  First read about Oshodi then come for lesson on the commander himself.   

Negro straps on his war armor

Otunba Alao Akala's gre! gre!! great grandfather but he only bleached with dudu osun,there was no tura then

hercules07:

@Ufe

You people should have chilled now, you distracted us from our main aim, we could have given you free hand to plunder the yorubas in Kogi  .

Chill? i can imagine my father with huge tribal marks to show for the chilling innit?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (for Isale gan)

Can you forget that idea of a united Africa? Africa is too large a place for everyone to be united.

A united Africa in terms of economic and trade policies is a more pragmatic idea. But political, you can forget that.

Ufeolorun:

Otunba Alao Akala's gre! gre!! great grandfather but he only bleached with dudu osun,there was no tura then :DChill?

That's a disparaging remark about Lisabi. Can we do away with such remarks about revered leaders in Yoruba history? 

LOL @ NegroNtns, E seun modupe. Ase!

@Isale I get your point. I agree in principle. But it's hard to understand our brand of unity in the face of this Nigerian chaos.

PanAfrican unity needs to answer the same questions first. I'm all for purposeful unity.

Katsumoto (and Kilode),
I don't mean one nation-state. That would be impossible.  Even North America is not one country.  I just meant unification based on shared interest and preservation, knowing we're really one people that must stand against imperialism and recolonisation.  Anyway, the discussion may be too extraneous to this topic.

Lisabi was the Egba warrior who started the revolt against Oyo that would ultimately lead to fall of the Oyo empire. After the Egba fought for and won Independence, the others such as Ijebu, Ijaiye, etc did too.

. . . So how come no one ever heard about him in Lagos? He must have been one of those that fought with swords instead of acoustic booming canons as was the practice in Lagos. How do you think we kept ambitious Dahomey and England away for so long?

You dont have to respond now. . . .Kiriji is still the topic.

Where is DK. . .are you going to vie for Are Ona Kakanfo or not? Don't let Akintola down. . . . it will be nice to have in history that two Ares came from same bloodline.

Seems I am in a minority here, can we have records of when the europeans came and when we had contact with the fulani and Arabs. Anyway that is my opinion sha, its been a nice and cultured debate.