ronkebp:

how much tax have you paid in your own country?

the one we paid what did they do with it? I see their children enjoying our money here in obodo oyinbo.

ronkebp:
Nothing is working because we are part of why things are not working, how many people pays their NEPA OR PHCN bills? how many people pay their water bills? fine, the arguement will be, afterall there is no electricity supply then why pay? why not pay and see if the interruption will not be rectified.

My parents paid bills religiously. Where was the water and electricity? Some folks here dodge bills too and there are mechanisms in place to make sure they dont get away with it. the most painful thing is that even without taxes, Nigeria has enough oil to make sure its citizens never go hungry.

ronkebp:
Nothing is working because we are part of why things are not working, how many people pays their NEPA OR PHCN bills? how many people pay their water bills? fine, the arguement will be, afterall there is no electricity supply then why pay? why not pay and see if the interruption will not be rectified.

our parents paid nepa/water bills for several decades and yet the govt keeps promising
uninterrupted power supply in 2000, 2010, 2020. i heard the last promise was year 4000.
you wanna know why it works abroad? cos people are getting decent services for what they pay.

compare mobile phones to nepa/water. do nigerians not pay for phone credits promptly? why
do you think they pay? they pay cos they still get decent services - no matter what.
nigerians are not animals. after all, the same ones in nigeria travel abroad and become upstanding citizens.

intsead people prefer to cut and join rope togther, ordinary exam, people cannot sit down to study for WAEC or Jamb, they will be paying for expos'...do you know how dirty the whole Nigeria system is Now, is it the government that will sit down and help you to study your books?,

the government has provided the enabling environment for cheating to take place in those exams.
the invigilators themselves are corrupt. when people know there's an alternative way, they would utilize it.
send the kids cheating in nigeria abroad and they know they have to read to pass their exams. no shortcuts.
but in nigeria, they know there's an easier means to pass - who won't utilize such means?

you went to the higher institution to study islamic education or crk, and you want to rob shoulders with medical doctors and enginneers, you bribe your way up to the post of the managing director, is it the government that is receiving the bribes?. The bulk of the problem lies with the citizens and not the government. Everybody wants to live above their means at all cost, for what to show-off!!!!

the bulk of the problem lies with the government. they have impoverished the populace to the point that
any offer that comes, nigerians would likely take it. an invigilator that is being paid 20,000 naira throughout
the period of an external examination would be a fool not to collect 50k per candidate to enable malpractises.
it's simple logic!

Tstark: @OP
I think your budget is a little bit too extravagant. Some of those things you have listed are luxuries and are only intended for the very wealthy and not for someone who still intends to work for someone else. I'm sure you don't have people driving you around where you currently live so i don't see why you cant do the driving yourself. As far as 24 hour electricity goes you can achieve that if you really want to but it will really hit you in the pocket. You're gonna have to cater for some down time during the day when everyone is at work/school, and that should lighten the burden a little.
If you plan to build your own house before moving over and you haven't even started building yet then you might as well forget the whole idea of moving back in the near future and just plan for your retirement cos that's not a reasonable option if you haven't even started.
My advice is to trim down that initial list of yours and throw away the mindset of coming to Lagos to live like a king until you can actually do so, and everything should be fine. There are other decent areas where you can live in lagos that wont cost you an arm and a leg so i suggest you look into that option too.

nail on the head,could you provide such locations and their respective prices.

Sorry guys, had to go and do my motherly and wifely duties.......... But am back, so where were we?

ronkebp: Sorry guys, had to go and do my motherly and wifely roles.......... But am back, so where were we?

what we should give back to nigeria?
you have to feed the hungry populace first before you can give to them.
nigerians put hunger before morals and ethics.

dayokanu:

If you hear the argument of some nigerians you would wonder how the country would ever develop.

Some would complain about paying taxes abroad while driving on smooth well lit and policed roads, They would come to Naija where they don't pay taxes and still expect the same amenities in the countries that pay taxes.

Most of these people would smuggle their pregnant wives abroad to give birth and enjoy the benefits of taxes contributed by the so called "mumu" who pay taxes abroad

And that is just the natural mentality of Nigerians, there are so many things we all do that is just not right. we all like "awoof" but do not want to contribute to setting up the awoof, we all love already made beds, do you know that even here in the States, some Nigerians despite the fact that they pay taxes, still lie, during the tax return, they start to buy children up and down so that they can make more on their tax return....Now are we going to say it is the government that caused that?

davidylan:

the one we paid what did they do with it? I see their children enjoying our money here in obodo oyinbo.

Oh and you think you can pay taxes once and just don't pay again , the ones you pay abroad, is it continuous or just a one-time payment?

coogar:

what we should give back to nigeria?
you have to feed the hungry populace first before you can give to them.
nigerians put hunger before morals and ethics.

And that is the problem we are all having, when we put "hunger before doing the right thing" and that was how ESau lost his birth-right , As citizens we have so many things to accomplish on our own and helping the government and not waiting for them to do everything will go along way.There are so many rich big boiz in that Nigeria and they have their so-called social clubs, how many times have they decided to pull resources together to help their villages (at least start from there, if water is the main problem, get boys, let them dig wells and build a bore-hole there (gbam!!! water begins to flow). if it is roads ( gather yourselves, get contractors and tar the road), instead of driving feraris and living large, gather all those boys ( you think might be a nuisance some day, some where,), let them farm, let them be useful...pick some of those agberos'...send him to school, let him be useful to himself and family, and see if he will not give back when he gets there.

Chinom: Most of the comments here are simply ridiculous. Nothing but grandstanding.One can move and settle in naija with far less than what is being quoted here. You don't have to move to VI, Lekki, Ikoyi or even Magodo. There are many other places you can move to on Lagos mainland and pay much reasonable rent. You can then stay there while building your own house. Many bankers earning Between N100 and N150k a month are living comfortably well in lagos.

For me, once i can take c of the heat, i can live anywhere in lagos.
If you are waiting for when you are ready before you move, then you may never make that move to relocate.

About bankers makin 150k,I thought the starting salary in a naija bank e.g gtb was 250k.about them Living comfortably could you explain further,if they spend 100k on rent what exactly can they do with the 50 that is left assuming they earn 150k monthly.

Having an expatriate job in naija is a long thing,entrepreneurs make the most cash,so put on your thinking caps and make it happen for you or we.

debosky: Where on earth did you go in London for kids to be throwing oranges at you and calling you names? That couldn't have been a pleasant experience and left a bad taste in the mouth. On the other hand, there are others who haven't experienced such things and feel respected - they will likely have a different view point.



This sounds quite drastic - in time for this school year means by September and you are still 'considering'? How far along are your plans?

I guess it all depends on where you and your young boys live in London - life can be very conducive in the right places. Have you considered the enormous cost of private education in Nigeria?

For many/most Nigerians it is all about making it - you go abroad to make it, then you come back to Nigeria to either show everyone you've made it or use what you've made abroad to 'make it' even further in Nigeria.

E.fg who has done this?

(playing catch-up on the thread)

Wetin, you guys have completely muddled up the "basis of our discussion" and turned it into a Nigeria-bashing exercise?
In making my own submission earlier, l did put a "proviso" as quoted below:

Take note its not about whether such 'things' are legal or acceptable in a society, it is about fulfilling your heart desires.

Our discussion was a "comparison" of PERSONAL FREEDOM between Nigeria and the Western Countries, in general!

It is not about whether U.S is better than Nigeria in terms of infrastructure (That will be a "No-brainer" even for a three year old!)

All l have said is that in Nigeria, there are certain freedom which you can exercise without restriction, which you can only dream of, in the West. Finito!

It is this "Personal Freedom" that l think (IMO) makes people to have this "yearning to go back home", after spending years abroad, WHEN THEY REACH OR START APPROACHING A CERTAIN "STAGE" IN LIFE!

Dont worry, l observe that most commentators here are actually between the adolescent and say 30+ yrs bracket(no disrespect in any way), but when you get to a certain age/stage in life (apply Maslow's Theory if you care), l can bet my balls that your "thinking" will certainly change!

Even I, have heard it before, l have said so before and l am saying otherwise NOW!

No Beefing, those that want to live-out their lives in a foreign land are at Liberty to do so; those of us who see "what is missing" in the abroad life and decide we will relocate back to fatherland at a point in our life, are simply exercising that same "freedom of self" that beckons so irresistibly!

One thing l am sure of is that "Change is the only constant factor in life"!
Nigeria will not/can not remain as it is, forever (Systems in a state of Entropy always find a way to "settle down" to orderliness)

And l am having an eerie-feeling right now 'cos "when the drum repeatedly starts giving a very high-pitched sound, IT IS JUST ABOUT TO TEAR"!
Cheers to every one.

Lastpage!

@Coogar: our parents paid nepa/water bills for several decades and yet the govt keeps promising
uninterrupted power supply in 2000, 2010, 2020. i heard the last promise was year 4000.
you wanna know why it works abroad? cos people are getting decent services for what they pay.

compare mobile phones to nepa/water. do nigerians not pay for phone credits promptly? why
do you think they pay? they pay cos they still get decent services - no matter what.
nigerians are not animals. after all, the same ones in nigeria travel abroad and become upstanding citizens.

God bless you for this Post!
That "GSM" example was succinct!
Its unfortunate that even we Nigerians dont know ourselves!
We dont realize that we are the "easiest people to govern", if such government has "noble intentions"!
Nigerians became what they are TODAY because successive govts have "ra*ped" them over and over again!

Imagine, Nepa does not bring light for three months (they say Transformer don pafuka! ) yet each month end, they bring you a huge Bill? How long will you continue to act the "good Nigerian" and keep paying up?

Imagine how OBJ promised "stable power" for 8yrs (and used it as one of the justification to increase fuel price, seven times in eight years!)
Imagine that Uncle Umaru of blessed memory, also made one silly 7-point agenda and power was outstanding in it, for good three years?
Imagine that the current "shoe-less" siddon-look champion is also using the same "Power" as one of the justification for his recent 50% fuel hike?

Haaba, we should credit Nigerians for enduring so much degradation...and yet remain positive in their outlook towards life!

*Is it too much to ask your government to provide POWER while you pay for it?
*Why is it so difficult (even if we have to import the wheel barrows) in constructing a road that will last 20yrs? Some of the ones constructed by the colonial masters were still functional in Lagos, before Fashola "renovated" them!
*What is so difficult in "stealing 50%" (if you must steal at all) and using the remaining 50% to provide portable water or build low cost houses for your people? What is the essence of governance sef?


Dont blame the "good" people of Nigeria, blame the "evil" usurpers of machinery of governance.

^^ Disorderliness we celebrate as freedom?

maybe we can start from the freedom to shiiitt on the roadside displayed in broad daylight in Obalende.

Freedom to blast music at night in residential areas.

Freedom to drink and drive without being questioned

Freedom to block the road for parties without regards for other road users etc

coogar:

crime in the states is not 1/3rd of what happens in nigeria. this ignorance must stop.
it's just that nearly every incident makes it to the 9pm news in the states whilst the ones in naija are
swept under the carpet. the crimes reported in naija are1000th of what really goes on.

the same naija where pickpockets are maimed on the streets on a daily basis, cars crush pedestrians
like no man's business. the same nigeria where tobacco/alcohol can be sold to a 7-month old baby
if the baby can find its way to any mallam shop. abeg - nigeria is worse than any where i have been
to. it's a hell-hole.

No matter how hard you try to distance yourself from the truth,the fact is you ARE and will always be a NIGERIAN.So instead of sowing seeds of sorrow and getting people depressed,you better look deep into yourself and honestly find that thing that causes you to express such distaste for your motherland.fix it if it as bad as you paint it.

dayokanu: I have stayed in the west for over 3years I go out at night regularly, I have never been robbed before anywhere

but while in Nigeria hardly does a week pass without a colleague being robbed in traffic either on Osborne road or Apongbon

Actually I dont leave work till 10pm so I can speed pass Osborne without being robbed.

Yet Osborne is supposed to be the highbrow area of Lagos.

Imagine what now happens in Abule Egba, Egbeda Shitta and other middle class areas?

Wearing a suit is an open invitation to robbers

crime in Lagos cant be compared to anywhere in the west

The knowledge that there is a law enforcement which does their job is even enough deterrent to people compared to what we have in Naija

No need to wait till ten before you begin your speeding stunt.by 7 when most of all leave the office,we fire the car all the way past osborne,I don't even wait to buy plantain chips anymore.

^^^

captalex:
No need to wait till ten before you begin your speeding stunt.by 7 when most of all leave the office,we fire the car all the way past osborne,I don't even wait to buy plantain chips anymore.

captalex:
No matter how hard you try to distant yourself from the truth,the fact is you ARE and will always be a NIGERIAN.So instead of sowing seeds of sorrow and getting people depressed,you better look deep into yourself and honestly find that thing that causes you to express such distaste for your motherland.fix it if it as bad as you paint it.

you are a social reprobate - i am not trying to make people depressed, i am
painting the real picture of what's on ground. i visit nigeria every now and then
and what i see is very terrible. no amount of glossing coming out from your lips
would change that fact!

@dayokanu

^^ Disorderliness we celebrate as freedom?

maybe we can start from the freedom to shiiitt on the roadside displayed in broad daylight in Obalende.

Freedom to blast music at night in residential areas.

Freedom to drink and drive without being questioned

Freedom to block the road for parties without regards for other road users etc

You are being unfair to the country.
EVERYTHING IN LIFE has its "Positive and Negative Sides"...and this Nigerian Freedom is no exception!

You cant just highlight the "negative sides" of Freedom in Nigeria without balancing your statements with the "Positive sides" of the same Freedom!

At the end of the day, EVERY MAN WILL MAKE "A PREFERENCE DECISION" , after a careful SWOT Analysis, in "self" best interest!

Only that such "interest", changes with one's life cycle!

No Place like Naija joor!

Lastpage!

BTW: And please, I have seen too many white peeps "Defecating and Urinating" on the road corners and even at door of shops, almost every weekend, around 3am, when returning from Nite Clubs, in the town center! Ko'si ibiti wan ti'ngbe ediye'Ale now?
If you want, l will particularly go out this weekend, take their pictures and Post it here for you to see!
It happens week-in, week-out!

At the end of the day, what budget?

^^ Thank you.

Back to topic - enough of the derailment.

Some of the estimates I'm seeing here for 2m per anum rent, 200-300k per month living expenses, minus car and so on, you'd be looking at a budget the region of 5-6m per year, without school fees if you have kids, or the cost of buying a car and house furnishing. Adding those on will easily take you into the 10m range.

coogar:

you are a social reprobate - i am not trying to make people depressed, i am
painting the real picture of what's on ground. i visit nigeria every now and then
and what i see is very terrible. no amount of glossing coming out from your lips
would change that fact!

Is that the only word you have in your minute vocabulary 'olori nla'.even if all YOU see is doom and gloom at least provide constructive criticism about the country.

@poster as many have suggested living in v.i, lekki doesn't guarantee you peace of mind.
Why not come down one of these days and see which location would suit you best for family,work and everything else.

captalex:
Is that the only word you have in your minute vocabulary 'olori nla'.even if all YOU see is doom and gloom at least provide constructive criticism about the country.

constructive criticism = papering the cracks.
no wonder your governemt is owing corp members their
salaries since march. is that the country you have got
your hopes on? you inscrutable troglodyte!

lastpage: @dayokanu

You are being unfair to the country.
EVERYTHING IN LIFE has its "Positive and Negative Sides"...and this Nigerian Freedom is no exception!

You cant just highlight the "negative sides" of Freedom in Nigeria without balancing your statements with the "Positive sides" of the same Freedom!

At the end of the day, EVERY MAN WILL MAKE "A PREFERENCE DECISION" , after a careful SWOT Analysis, in "self" best interest!

Only that such "interest", changes with one's life cycle!

No Place like Naija joor!

Lastpage!

BTW: And please, I have seen too many white peeps "Defecating and Urinating" on the road corners and even at door of shops, almost every weekend, around 3am, when returning from Nite Clubs, in the town center! Ko'si ibiti wan ti'ngbe ediye'Ale now?
If you want, l will particularly go out this weekend, take their pictures and Post it here for you to see!
It happens week-in, week-out!

Pls what are the positive sides of blocking roads for a party, Blasting music in a residnetial area, Drinking and driving without being questioned or shiting in broad daylight. You said those coming from clubs hide to do theirs, In Obalende they do it openly in the daylight because no one would stop them and they are enjoying their own freedom too

debosky: ^^ Thank you.

Back to topic - enough of the derailment.

Some of the estimates I'm seeing here for 2m per anum rent, 200-300k per month living expenses, minus car and so on, you'd be looking at a budget the region of 5-6m per year, without school fees if you have kids, or the cost of buying a car and house furnishing. Adding those on will easily take you into the 10m range.

Tks, I think 5-6m a yr, without school fees and initial settling costs (plane tickets, buying car, furnishing the house etc.) seems a realistic budget from what I've read so far. It seems it would be more expensive living on the island. At least this post made me reconsider that aspect. Since my job will most probably be on the island, I'll have to make a couple of trips there to look at other options concerning housing.

Miss_Ife:

Tks, I think 5-6m a yr, without school fees and initial settling costs (plane tickets, buying car, furnishing the house etc.) seems a realistic budget from what I've read so far. It seems it would be more expensive living on the island. At least this post made me reconsider that aspect. Since my job will most probably be on the island, I'll have to make a couple of trips there to look at other options concerning housing.

you don't need that much without school fees. the posts you've read here are just exaggerated estimates.

accommodation:............................... 2m
school fees/annum (2 kids?) 500k X2.......... 1m
feeding 200 X 12..............................2m
others........................................1m
----------
total 6m
-----------

finito!

Must u stay on the island? You can stay in Surulere or Yaba and be commuting. 2m every year is not beans at all.

blank: Must u stay on the island? You can stay in Surulere or Yaba and be commuting. 2m every year is not beans at all.

I wouldn't mind living somewhere else than the island, if it was not for traffic. I think I have to go there and see by myself how it goes. I don't care about traffic when on holiday but it's a different thing on a daily basis. At lest, this post helped me consider other options, I'm really glad I could gather so many different opinions there.

When we talk about relocating to Nigeria we are not talking about Lagos alone God has bless us in Africa and we can live anywhere.
Back to relocating, I have been leaving in London for so long and believe me when i tell u is not EASYYY! so many people want to run away from their country until u find out that no where is easy we just have to hope for the best in life. 9ja is one of the happiest place to live and i truly know what I'm saying cos i have lived in different countries. My own motto is cut your dress according to your size and u will never regret it. We talk about robbers and every bad things on earth happing in our country what about were we leave? our children cannot even walk freely on the street, they can't have that freedom we had as child, were we can go out and fun without a care in the world.Old people mugged in their home and on the street, people killing with guns and knifes and government giving them short sentences my God! Talk about expenses bills! bills! bills! i can go on! and on! and on! To cut my story short i will and forever love my country. God made heaven and earth and he said wherever we are he is there, I will never allow any negative comments from people to discourage us from leaving our country. We should stop this ignorance and hope for the best from God.

flakkygirl2009: When we talk about relocating to Nigeria we are not talking about Lagos alone God has bless us in Africa and we can live anywhere.
Back to relocating, I have been leaving in London for so long and believe me when i tell u is not EASYYY! so many people want to run away from their country until u find out that no where is easy we just have to hope for the best in life. 9ja is one of the happiest place to live and i truly know what I'm saying cos i have lived in different countries. My own motto is cut your dress according to your size and u will never regret it. We talk about robbers and every bad things on earth happing in our country what about were we leave? our children cannot even walk freely on the street, they can't have that freedom we had as child, were we can go out and fun without a care in the world.Old people mugged in their home and on the street, people killing with guns and knifes and government giving them short sentences my God! Talk about expenses bills! bills! bills! i can go on! and on! and on! To cut my story short i will and forever love my country. God made heaven and earth and he said wherever we are he is there, I will never allow any negative comments from people to discourage us from leaving our country. We should stop this ignorance and hope for the best from God.

depends where you live, I have often left my car unlocked over night and its still there - have also left my front door unlocked going for a walk with my daughter and everything is still there - ok I don't live in London but not all parts of london are the UK branch of the Wire.

the point i'm trying to make is what works for one might not work for others - I prefer living here as a woman.

coogar:


you love the heat in Lagos? it's nothing like the summer in the west.
the humidity in Lagos can be life threatening.



of course!

The heat/humidity in NYC or Chicago in july/August will kill most Nigerians! Why do we always think the "West" is always cool? NYC on July fourth feels like Lagos on the hottest day with 99% humidity!