ishmael: my friend, i have attended both schools and i know how people in the uni who have never been to the polytechnic b4 say about poly being inferior. This is not true as the poly guys in courses like acctng, biz admin, marketing, statistics, etc. do better than their uni counterparts. The truth is when i was moving to the university, i moved with my poly notes and other materials and they were very useful to me. University education in nigeria at undergraduate level is very faulty.

Same here I attended both and my conclusion is that there is a little difference in the style of teaching and how students participate nevertheless, none is better. It is about the individual and not the school you attend. The challenges I have with the HND degree however is the fact that they have lesser opportunity to showcase themselves compared to their BSc counterparts and moreso, some of them choose to act inferior by saying they are better than their university counterpart. As for me, let the results you achieve tell and not what you say.

[quote author=Nwa Teacher]Bsc. cert and HND cert never be the same anywhere in the world. Researchers and technologist are two diff. things. How many professors taught u during ur HND program? Be proud with the one ur having and move on with it. U can enroll in Pgd program. Gudluck [/quote

This is another ignorant statement, lack of knowledge and understanding of Nigeria problem bring this type of mentality. Bsc and HND become an issue because of lack job opportunities. Where many people are chasing few jobs it is expected that there will be discriminations.

I have an HND from yabatech. And I have never felt any discrimination whatsoever. I am a telecoms consultant and have worked in and outside this country with my certificate on a salary that even MSC holders would dream of. Those in ICT know that it is what u can do and not some certificate. So instead of pitying yourself and blaming the government for your predicament, u could just save a little, acquire some other skills, get enrolled for a foreign degree and that ends it. We live in a society where footballers earn so much without some degree, where people make it from singing and here some fellas just sit and go thru this self pity. Discrimination against HND in public organizations. who gives a damn about them. If u are not ok with ur current job, look for another and think of acquiring skills. It is not only the educational sector that is sick in this nation. You are the master of your fate and the captain of your soul.

Some posts here make me wonder. Some of us speak as if we have extensively visited or studied at both types of institutions.

Some even went ahead to make generalized claims without even bothering to back them up with strong and convincing arguments and varied evidence. The problem is that some of us have been trained to always demand proof or evidence of a proposition. That is our problem. At least, it would be a pleasure for some of us to know why we are inferior in a course like statistics which we spent many years studying. Those our profs must be mad for loading us with inferior crap Okay, okay, let's don't say they are mad until we get a cogent reason.

T22.

I think the Bsc/HND issue is a result of bad policy formulation and lack of direction by the government and the policy-makers in Nigeria.
We copied a system from Britain, a system which has long been discarded. We still cling to it, with no clue of where we want to go in the future, messing up lives in the process.

Institutions need to be autonomous, and be able to design their own programs, in line with standards set by NCC. There is no reason why a Yabatech or KADPOLY should not be awarding degrees up to PhD level. In some departments in Yabatech like Fine Arts, they have had professors (like Yusuf Grillo) in their faculty. Why should the level of study in such a school be capped at HND?

And while we're at it, why does the HND degree still exist? The UK does not award such degrees anymore, and the old polytechnics of the first half of last century have long been upgraded into schools of technology, awarding all manner of degrees. In fact you could say that MIT is such an institution, keeping the moniker 'Institute(s) of Technology' for historical reasons.

AjanleKoko: I think the Bsc/HND issue is a result of bad policy formulation and lack of direction by the government and the policy-makers in Nigeria.
We copied a system from Britain, a system which has long been discarded. We still cling to it, with no clue of where we want to go in the future, messing up lives in the process.

Institutions need to be autonomous, and be able to design their own programs, in line with standards set by NCC. There is no reason why a Yabatech or KADPOLY should not be awarding degrees up to PhD level. In some departments in Yabatech like Fine Arts, they have had professors (like Yusuf Grillo) in their faculty. Why should the level of study in such a school be capped at HND?

And while we're at it, why does the HND degree still exist? The UK does not award such degrees anymore, and the old polytechnics of the first half of last century have long been upgraded into schools of technology, awarding all manner of degrees. In fact you could say that MIT is such an institution, keeping the moniker 'Institute(s) of Technology' for historical reasons.

To my understanding, those two schools have been given the power to grant bachelor degrees.

T22

bidoski: Is having that BSC or university degree a guarantee to getting that employment you dream of or success in Life?Lets change our mentality please.

nice 1 bro

tanimola22:

To my understanding, those two schools have been given the power to grant bachelor degrees.

T22

T22, aren't they limited to a few specialist courses? In the case of KADPOLY, it was more in the area of technical education, and the degree accredited was B.Tech(Ed).
I'm saying the schools should be allowed to seek accreditation for courses that they have the faculty and facilities to teach. For example accounting. No reason why Yabatech should not be able to offer MBA Finance or Msc finance. They have a very strong faculty.

GboyegaD:

This is one of the challenges of the Nigerian Youth creating obstacle where actually there is none. Just strive to finish with an Upper Credit and I can assure you by WES evaluation, you sure would meet the minimum 3.0 GPA required for admission. Like Ak adviced, you would need to prepare well for the GRE and get a good score and write a very good statement of purpose and you sure would get the desired admission.
Lastly, I would advise you read well about the funding options in your school so that you are sure they have very good funding to see you through school.

Thanks man. I know I will. I visited the university of texas website and their minimum requirement for master's degree is 3.20. Again I will like to know if the university of texas and texas a&m are they the same or different schools? AKtunde, please send me your email via the email in my signature or follow me so the I can PM you. GboyegaD, kindly do the same. thank you.

tanimola22: Some posts here make me wonder. Some of us speak as if we have extensively visited or studied at both types of institutions.

Some even went ahead to make generalized claims without even bothering to back them up with strong and convincing arguments and varied evidence. The problem is that some of us have been trained to always demand proof or evidence of a proposition. That is our problem. At least, it would be a pleasure for some of us to know why we are inferior in a course like statistics which we spent many years studying. Those our profs must be mad for loading us with inferior crap Okay, okay, let's don't say they are mad until we get a cogent reason.

T22.

i studied statistics up to HND at the polytechnic and also did a Bsc statistics in the university. I can truely tell u that we did more in the polytechnic than in the uni both in theory and practicals.

ishmael: i studied statistics up to HND at the polytechnic and also did a Bsc statistics in the university. I can truely tell u that we did more in the polytechnic than in the uni both in theory and practicals.

Interesting. Did you mean that you did more at the polytechnic you attended than at the university you attended? If this is what you mean, then I flow with your point. Otherwise, I am very afraid of your premise and conclusion. In aggregate, there are more than 60 universities and more than 20 polytechnics in naija. The same statistics has taught me never to make sweeping statements, unless of course I have studied at more than 50% of these universities and more than 50% of these polytechnics.

Even graduates of statistics from two different naija universities don't always have the same knowledge, showing that the material covered across universities in naija may also differ.

If I wanted to say what you said in your previous post, then I would say 'I hypothesize that poly grads do better than their uni counterparts in so so so courses'. After setting up the complete hypothesis, I will then go ahead to look for an appropriate statistical theory which will help substantiate the veracity of my claim. As you very much know, this statement shows that I have made an hypothesis which has to be tested using any of the appropriate distribution theory.

No hard feelings though. Everyone is learning!

T22

tanimola22:

Interesting. Did you mean that you did more at the polytechnic you attended than at the university you attended? If this is what you mean, then I flow with your point. Otherwise, I am very afraid of your premise and conclusion. In aggregate, there are more than 60 universities and more than 20 polytechnics in naija. The same statistics has taught me never to make sweeping statements, unless of course I have studied at more than 50% of these universities and more than 50% of these polytechnics.

Even graduates of statistics from two different naija universities don't always have the same knowledge, showing that the material covered across universities in naija may also differ.

If I wanted to say what you said in your previous post, then I would say 'I hypothesize that poly grads do better than their uni counterparts in so so so courses'. After setting up the complete hypothesis, I will then go ahead to look for an appropriate statistical theory which will help substantiate the veracity of my claim. As you very much know, this statement shows that I have made an hypothesis which has to be tested using any of the appropriate distribution theory.

No hard feelings though. Everyone is learning!

T22

u're correct. Are u also a statistician?

AjanleKoko:

T22, aren't they limited to a few specialist courses? In the case of KADPOLY, it was more in the area of technical education, and the degree accredited was B.Tech(Ed).
I'm saying the schools should be allowed to seek accreditation for courses that they have the faculty and facilities to teach. For example accounting. No reason why Yabatech should not be able to offer MBA Finance or Msc finance. They have a very strong faculty.

Not too long ago, I read somewhere that both schools in particular had started giving out degrees in lieu of diplomas.

Indeed, Yabatech and Kadploy (and I think Auchi poly too) have long been doing pretty well. Very soon, their various departments will start offering graduate level courses.

T22.

ishmael: u're correct. Are u also a statistician?

Yeah, I combined it with pure math.

T22

We are just saying our own here. But guys, might I let you all know that the best companies in France mostly prefer Ecole Polytechnic graduates to any university graduates. Well, this is the case in France.

There is nowhere in the world where discrimination does not come in. As I earlier said in one of my previous posts, the prices and desirability of things are mostly driven by the demand for those things. In France, the demand for Ecole Poly graduates is so high that they (the grads) sometimes earn more than their university graduate colleagues. This is almost the norm in France and everyone there has come to terms with it. As one out of many examples, during my short stay in the ancient city of Paris, I met one Senegalese guy who graduated from University of Paris-Dauphine, one of the best schools in France. This guy frustratingly told me that the poly guy that does the exact same thing he does and was employed at the same time with him, earns almost 50% more than him. I opened my mouth.

So, what do we have to say about this? Even some of the most respected researchers in France, they all did their undergraduate and graduate studies at Ecole Poly. Just get a relevant Ecole Poly certificate and companies in France will be more than willing to listen to you. They believe you are better..Sharp contrast with naija.

Oh well, na so we see am-

T22

is the HND cert. recognised in canada or France the same way as US?

PLEASE PLEASE....SHE NEEDS A JOB! MAKE UNA STOP TO DEY PERAMBULATE!!!!

tanimola22:

Yeah, I combined it with pure math.

T22

b4 nko? Can u ever do statistics without pure maths? That's why u do so many maths courses like linear algebra, trig & geometry, calculus, D.E., mathematical mthds, etc. Very interesting course.

ishmael: b4 nko? Can u ever do statistics without pure maths? That's why u do so many maths courses like linear algebra, trig & geometry, calculus, D.E., mathematical mthds, etc. Very interesting course.

Yes, the mathematics courses you stated are a must for statistics majors. But I did much heavier type of mathematics, something that many statistics students would find useless. I did the likes of group theory, ring theory, measure theory, functional analysis, complex analysis, further real analysis, algebra and some other courses I can't remember again. These are the main, the main pure mathematics courses. I even went further to take applied mathematics courses like vectors, tensors and mechanics. I took mechanics for 4 solid semesters until I just got tired and focused on statistics.

For statistics, I did a combination of courses in parametric and non-parametric statistics ( many of them) as well as frequentist probability and measure theoretic probability plus stochastic processes. I also had an introduction to Bayesian statistics. I tried to have a general knowledge of all courses in mathematics (pure and applied) and statistics but unfortunately my brain failed me .

Finally, as you remarked, all these fancy mathematics courses are very interesting. Many of them are very, very, very applicable. For example, a knowledge of abstract algebra in general and group theory in particular is very helpful in studying preference theory in microeconomics. Also, a good knowledge of statistics simplifies microeconometrics and macroeconometrics, and a fine understanding of measure theoretic probability and stochastic processes (including stochastic calculus and stochastic differential equations) makes many areas of finance and even actuarial science look like a piece of cake .

T22

tanimola22:

Yes, the mathematics courses you stated are a must for statistics majors. But I did much heavier type of mathematics, something that many statistics students would find useless. I did the likes of group theory, ring theory, measure theory, functional analysis, complex analysis, further real analysis, algebra and some other courses I can't remember again. These are the main, the main pure mathematics courses. I even went further to take applied mathematics courses like vectors, tensors and mechanics. I took mechanics for 4 solid semesters until I just got tired and focused on statistics.

For statistics, I did a combination of courses in parametric and non-parametric statistics ( many of them) as well as frequentist probability and measure theoretic probability plus stochastic processes. I also had an introduction to Bayesian statistics. I tried to have a general knowledge of all courses in mathematics (pure and applied) and statistics but unfortunately my brain failed me .

Finally, as you remarked, all these fancy mathematics courses are very interesting. Many of them are very, very, very applicable. For example, a knowledge of abstract algebra in general and group theory in particular is very helpful in studying preference theory in microeconomics. Also, a good knowledge of statistics simplifies microeconometrics and macroeconometrics, and a fine understanding of measure theoretic probability and stochastic processes (including stochastic calculus and stochastic differential equations) makes many areas of finance and even actuarial science look like a piece of cake .

T22

My guy u try. All those pure maths courses like ring theory, measure theory, topology, etc were courses done by mathematics students alone, while those of us in statistics were doing advanced stats courses like experimental design, quality control, multivariate analysis, probability theory, etc. Mathematics is the best subject for mankind. So what are u into now? Me, i'm an ex-banker, but self-employed now as a statistical consultant.

ishmael: My guy u try. All those pure maths courses like ring theory, measure theory, topology, etc were courses done by mathematics students alone, while those of us in statistics were doing advanced stats courses like experimental design, quality control, multivariate analysis, probability theory, etc. Mathematics is the best subject for mankind. So what are u into now? Me, i'm an ex-banker, but self-employed now as a statistical consultant.

Thank you. I was trying to remember algebraic and differential topology and lie algebra.

I do theoretical research in quantitative financial economics, but my long term goal is industry research work plus being an adjunct professor.

T22.

tanimola22:

Thank you. I was trying to remember algebraic and differential topology and lie algebra.

I do theoretical research in quantitative financial economics, but my long term goal is industry research work plus being an adjunct professor.

T22.

That's ok. I like people like u. Let's always keep in touch.

2sexy:
Thanks man. I know I will. I visited the university of texas website and their minimum requirement for master's degree is 3.20. Again I will like to know if the university of texas and texas a&m are they the same or different schools? AKtunde, please send me your email via the email in my signature or follow me so the I can PM you. GboyegaD, kindly do the same. thank you.

They are different university systems. I would suggest you send me a mail via Nairaland and I would respond appropriately.

ishmael: i studied statistics up to HND at the polytechnic and also did a Bsc statistics in the university. I can truely tell u that we did more in the polytechnic than in the uni both in theory and practicals.

What school did you finish your HND from?

GboyegaD:

What school did you finish your HND from?

a polytechnic in nigeria.

tanimola22:

Thank you. I was trying to remember algebraic and differential topology and lie algebra.

I do theoretical research in quantitative financial economics, but my long term goal is industry research work plus being an adjunct professor.

T22.

Honestly, there are some important aspects of statistics we did in the polytechnic that we never did or only did little in the university. Operational research courses, econometrics, experimental design, industrial stats, and stats computing were better taught to me in the polytechnic than in the university. Try and get a copy of the NBTE course curriculum for statistics and compare with that of NUC, you will see the similarities and differences. Nigerian polytechnic system is just too good, unfortunately nigerians have been looking down at it.

Guys mek una relax, B.SC & HND r just ordinary paper in Nigeria, Blv me dat job hear in Niger is not given by ur certificate rather by whom u know. K hia dis, we wear told a story in Rivers state NYSC oriantaion camp about (1) a guy who wrote/interview in a particular organizatn nd came 1st but do u blv dat d manager told him face2face dat he is sory, dat he kept d job 4 his under-graduate son nd he left disaptdly
(2) Anoda OND holder in accountant applyd 4 a job while d job oppotunity was 4 B.SC & HND holders in Engineering. But do u blv dat afta evry tin, d job was given 2 d guy wit OND cos he had up to 21 skills in difrnt areas.
So my felow Nigas. Try 2 b creative cos some of well knwn pipl in Niga r SELF EMPLOYED witout certificate of any kind. (nadolink@yahoo.com)

ishmael: Honestly, there are some important aspects of statistics we did in the polytechnic that we never did or only did little in the university. Operational research courses, econometrics, experimental design, industrial stats, and stats computing were better taught to me in the polytechnic than in the university. Try and get a copy of the NBTE course curriculum for statistics and compare with that of NUC, you will see the similarities and differences. Nigerian polytechnic system is just too good, unfortunately nigerians have been looking down at it.

Well, I definitely don't know of others elsewhere. I only know of myself and people that graduated from my undergrad class. That said, it is my delight to let you know that I took courses in Operations Research, Design of Experiment as well as in Statistical Methods and Concepts. The courses in Statistical Methods and Concepts almost completely cover all what there is to know in Statistical Computing and Industrial Statistics at undergrad level. Might I also let you know that I had lab (computing) sessions in Statistics during my undergraduate days and each student in my undergraduate class did a couple of graded projects using the knowledge gathered during the lab sessions. I guess this is what you call 'Stats Computing'.

Of course, taking into cognizance the very definition of humility, I have done both Econometrics and Financial Econometrics at a very high and intensely competitive level (competing with students from Asia, North America, Europe and Africa) and I can humbly tell you that the knowledge I needed to understand these courses was not beyond the scope of what I learned at undergraduate level Statistics in naija. The Econometrics covered at non-graduate level is only laughable, at least in my view. It is almost a repetition of material covered in Statistics and does not always include an extension to FGLS and GLS and a host of other very important analyses that are extremely useful in Economics and which I unfortunately cannot just begin to list now.

The truth of the matter is that, faculty (professors) vary across universities and some universities, even in that same naija, are just lucky to have a near perfect combination of faculty. I know this is not the case in general, but it is true. In addition to other very important knowledge that I acquired in Statistics while in naija, the combo of Lebesgue Measure Theory and Further Probability Theory that I was so very well exposed to, remains one of the best things that have happened to me as someone who studied in naija.

T22.

Nadoson: Guys mek una relax, B.SC & HND r just ordinary paper in Nigeria, Blv me dat job hear in Niger is not given by ur certificate rather by whom u know. K hia dis, we wear told a story in Rivers state NYSC oriantaion camp about (1) a guy who wrote/interview in a particular organizatn nd came 1st but do u blv dat d manager told him face2face dat he is sory, dat he kept d job 4 his under-graduate son nd he left disaptdly
(2) Anoda OND holder in accountant applyd 4 a job while d job oppotunity was 4 B.SC & HND holders in Engineering. But do u blv dat afta evry tin, d job was given 2 d guy wit OND cos he had up to 21 skills in difrnt areas.
So my felow Nigas. Try 2 b creative cos some of well knwn pipl in Niga r SELF EMPLOYED witout certificate of any kind. (nadolink@yahoo.com)

To the best of my knowledge, many people would not like to kill their businesses by employing family members and perhaps sacrificing quality.

The guy you have spoken about should go to sane companies to compete for jobs, not a company where employment decisions are made by one certain man/woman.

T22

T22, you are the real deal. Man, we go rob mind when I grad in less than 2months time. I have questions to ask.

Anyway, I got your email from another thread.

At GboyegaD, I can't send you an email here. This nairaland has made it even difficult and its not so user friendly for that purpose. Do you know how I can send you the email?

tanimola22:

Well, I definitely don't know of others elsewhere. I only know of myself and people that graduated from my undergrad class. That said, it is my delight to let you know that I took courses in Operations Research, Design of Experiment as well as in Statistical Methods and Concepts. The courses in Statistical Methods and Concepts almost completely cover all what there is to know in Statistical Computing and Industrial Statistics at undergrad level. Might I also let you know that I had lab (computing) sessions in Statistics during my undergraduate days and each student in my undergraduate class did a couple of graded projects using the knowledge gathered during the lab sessions. I guess this is what you call 'Stats Computing'.

Of course, taking into cognizance the very definition of humility, I have done both Econometrics and Financial Econometrics at a very high and intensely competitive level (competing with students from Asia, North America, Europe and Africa) and I can humbly tell you that the knowledge I needed to understand these courses was not beyond the scope of what I learned at undergraduate level Statistics in naija. The Econometrics covered at non-graduate level is only laughable, at least in my view. It is almost a repetition of material covered in Statistics and does not always include an extension to FGLS and GLS and a host of other very important analyses that are extremely useful in Economics and which I unfortunately cannot just begin to list now.

The truth of the matter is that, faculty (professors) vary across universities and some universities, even in that same naija, are just lucky to have a near perfect combination of faculty. I know this is not the case in general, but it is true. In addition to other very important knowledge that I acquired in Statistics while in naija, the combo of Lebesgue Measure Theory and Further Probability Theory that I was so very well exposed to, remains one of the best things that have happened to me as someone who studied in naija.

T22.

Let's get it straight. Stats method gives u the stats concept needed to do stats analyses. Its concepts are applied to solving problems in industrial stats and quality control. Topics in industrial stats includes process/product control, control chart techniques, acceptance sampling, inventory, etc. Statistical computing on the other hand is different from statistics lab practicals where u use packages such as spss, minitab, excel, etc for stats analysis. It is the interface between computer science and statistics. It teaches u how to develop ur own algorithm and programs to solve mathematical and statistical problems. It includes topics like random numbers & simulation, numerical methods of solving eqns, numerical linear algebra, kernel density functions, and algorithms & programming. In statistical computing, the algorithm and programming you do is mathematical using programming languages like Fortran, pascal, c++, matlab, sas, stata, etc.