bukatyne: lol! @ stone of scandal! please give me specific examples/instances. thanks!

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedra_del_esc%C3%A1ndalo

Concept: The expression, often in Spanish, pointing to a fact that hampers so unexpected or sudden, the fluidity of normal or tolerable coexistence between people or groups.

Analysis: It is widely used-the phrase that we consider, in the language already established in the historical contributions that crystallize home lost in time, or not registered. He talks about people in general, the media, politicians, appeals to this expression as so many others, without questioning the source from which it has thrived.

Indeed, this is what happens with normal frequency in the formation of a language, which is always sediment in their march diachronic traditions. Some scholars, however, have a particular relationship with family and hard work to trace their alleged findings provide us with enlightening.

Thus, in the stone of scandal, or Stone of the scandal, some researchers have found two possible origins understood.

One is "historic" or, rather, "biblical". It's from the Gospels. In St. John we find the episode of the adulterous woman. There, the crowd around her angry and full of inflated and hypocritical morality, proposes to stone, according to Jewish practices. That's when the moderate words of Jesus intervenes to promote reflection by saying: "He who is without sin cast against it, the first stone." So that obviously something cowardly attempts to unmask the bad faith of the people.

A second interpretation has tended to take the meaning or semantics, of the same word scandal. This word goes back to the Greek language. There skandalon has the value of obstruction or difficulty, block that hinders progress in a way. And according to the strict meaning of the word, derived the connotation: an act that moves the indignation and the spontaneous movement of mind, both individual and social, of shock.

Perhaps, both interpretations have been given in conjunction bonded in the key that explains the common place of Stone scandal.

Logic Mind: the bible told us that jesus christ had twelve disciples none of whom was a woman.

Mhhhh
Mary Magdalene?
Wife / lover?
Disciple?
Lover / disciple?

The bible is often claimed to be the divine word of god yet that same book is a cultural manual for the Jews (at least the OT).
Religion is an extension of culture (note those that are patriarchal often favour men)...and the bible is a continuation from the Torah (OT aka Jewish laws).

From genesis - we first discover how women were made supposedly subordinate to men as a punishment...thus our so called god-given gender roles was as a result of a punishment!...?
Women generally played the supporting role in the bible and were mostly elected as the lead when our femininity was thus needed aka Mary’s womb.

The bible certainly does not promote equality and many are led to believe that this is supposedly God's command so such roles should be unreservedly accepted when religion being a by-product of culture most likely contained bias that stood to serve a particular demographic.

emöfine2: The bible is often claimed to be the divine word of god yet that same book is a cultural manual for the Jews (at least the OT).
Religion is an extension of culture (note those that are patriarchal often favour men)...and the bible is a continuation from the Torah (OT aka Jewish laws).

From genesis - we first discover how women were made supposedly subordinate to men as a punishment...thus our so called god-given gender roles was as a result of a punishment!...?
Women generally played the supporting role in the bible and were mostly elected as the lead when our femininity was thus needed aka Mary’s womb.

The bible certainly does not promote equality and many are led to believe that this is supposedly God's command so such roles should be unreservedly accepted when religion being a by-product of culture most likely contained bias that stood to serve a particular demographic.

hello, ow did ur day go? re u a christian?

Ptolomeus:

Mhhhh
Mary Magdalene?
Wife / lover?
Disciple?
Lover / disciple?

the bible gave lists of the disciples of jesus. mary magdalene was not amongst them.


Matthew 10:1-4

10 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Mark 3:13-19

13 Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14 He appointed twelve[a] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15 and to have authority to drive out demons. 16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), 17 James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means “sons of thunder”), 18 Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Luke 6:12-16

12 One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. 13 When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: 14 Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, 15 Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Judas was later replaced by another man called Matthias

Acts 1:21-26

21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

You see, never was a woman even considered.

bukatyne: hello, ow did ur day go?

My day was fine, thanks...and you?

re u a christian?

No but I was nurtured under a Christian household.

@logicmind: i couldn't quote ur post cos it already contained d max letters. for a person who claimed to know d Bible, u should know dat Jesus had 12 Apostles and several disciples. a disciple literally means 'follower'. there are a lot of women disciples read Luke 8: 1-3. also read Luke 10:1-24 to see more disciples

emöfine2:

My day was fine, thanks...and you?



No but I was nurtured under a Christian household.

i m splendid too. al these stuff u typed in ur prev post, were u taught in church, by ur parents or is it wat u read in ur Bible? i mean wat is/was the source of ur beliefs?

Ptolomeus:

Mhhhh
Mary Magdalene?
Wife / lover?
Disciple?
Lover / disciple?

dear she was a female disciple and she was not the only one so i don't know y any particular reference is made to her

bukatyne: @logicmind: i couldn't quote ur post cos it already contained d max letters. for a person who claimed to know d Bible, u should know dat Jesus had 12 Apostles and several disciples. a disciple literally means 'follower'. there are a lot of women disciples read Luke 8: 1-3. also read Luke 10:1-24 to see more disciples

Thanks for poiting out those passages. They are an eye opener for those that wish to know.

Luke 10:1-24, speaks about jesus sending out 72 appointed people. It does not tell us if there were women amongst these 72. We can assume that there were women but it would only be an assumption as the scripture did not deem it important to mention.
But there were women followers of jesus and his 12 disciples (or apostles. matthew called them both) according to Luke 8: 1-3

Luke 8:1-3

8 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

But which women? Normal women? Scripture says no.
They were women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases. That is exactly my point. That is how the bible sees women. The bible is answering your questions about the stand of women in it.

"These women were helping to support them out of their own means". This phrase really says it all. This phrase shows that the bible finds it necessary to justify the inclusion of these women. What were the means of these women? Is it their role to support the men? Maybe according to god.

bukatyne: my answer is yes. there is a difference between religion n christianity. christianity is a relationship wit God. i would also advice christians to study d Bible n ask God for wisdom. that it's y on christian has any excuse, d BIBLE is there. if God tells u that u ll live till a hundred years n u jump into d road n a trailer hits u, is it His fault? or He tells u that He ll make u wealthy n u sit al day doin nothing, ll HE rain money from Heaven? He said He ll bless d work of our hands! if u do nothing, there is nothing to bless! if He promises u good health n u start drinkin contaminated water n eating spoilt food, would u fall sick? n al d other scenarioes u painted. get it, God is not a magician. He plays His part n expects each one of us to play ours too. He MIGHT decide to spare d life of d person who jumped in fronto of a vehicle because of His mercy n not because He is obliged to do so.

I was just rereading this post and it hit me how silly your argument sounds. How can a god that you claim to be ominipotent, omniscience, omniwhatever, not know that I would be jumping into a road and getting killed by a trailer? If he knew, why lie to me that I'll live long?
Why lie that he'll make me wealthy if he knew I would be lazy?
Or are you saying he doesn't know what i'll be doing?

I too am not a magician and can make you such promises: you also will be healthy if you don't drink contaminated water.

Logic Mind:

Thanks for poiting out those passages. They are an eye opener for those that wish to know.

Luke 10:1-24, speaks about jesus sending out 72 appointed people. It does not tell us if there were women amongst these 72. We can assume that there were women but it would only be an assumption as the scripture did not deem it important to mention.
But there were women followers of jesus and his 12 disciples (or apostles. matthew called them both) according to Luke 8: 1-3

Luke 8:1-3

8 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

But which women? Normal women? Scripture says no.
They were women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases. That is exactly my point. That is how the bible sees women. The bible is answering your questions about the stand of women in it.

"These women were helping to support them out of their own means". This phrase really says it all. This phrase shows that the bible finds it necessary to justify the inclusion of these women. What were the means of these women? Is it their role to support the men? Maybe according to god.

d only woman who demons was cast of was mary n if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. old things ve passed away n all tins ve become new. my pt is dat mary became new! she was not seen as an 'ex demon possessed woman' etc. Christ restores a person/thing back 2 its original state! wat would u say about matthew dat was once a tax collector? was he not an apostle or paul dat was once a persecutor? and wat is wrong that they supported His ministry? so that they had d money to support His ministry made them inferior?

were d disciples not also supporting d earthly ministry of Jesus b/4 they started theirs? so if ur uncle supports u in school, he is inferior to u when i gave dat ref, i was telling u about more disciples of Jesus and not if they were male or female. Jesus Christ changed d 'position' of women so to say during His earthly ministry. P.S. in the Bible, a supporter or helper is not considered or seen as a lower or inferior person. As a matter of fact, leaders are called to serve. i guess in ur analogy, Jesus is inferior to His disciples because He washed their feet!

bukatyne: d only woman who demons was cast of was mary n if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. old things ve passed away n all tins ve become new. my pt is dat mary became new! she was not seen as an 'ex demon possessed woman' etc. Christ restores a person/thing back 2 its original state! wat would u say about matthew dat was once a tax collector? was he not an apostle or paul dat was once a persecutor? and wat is wrong that they supported His ministry? so that they had d money to support His ministry made them inferior?

One again, you disagree with your bible. Is your holy book too confusing for you or is so badly written that you need divine intervention to interprete it?

About the women having money, my point was that the bible had to justify their inclusion as if they had nothing to do there if not for their money.

Anyway, have you ever heard the term "sugar mummy"?

bukatyne: were d disciples not also supporting d earthly ministry of Jesus b/4 they started theirs? so if ur uncle supports u in school, he is inferior to u when i gave dat ref, i was telling u about more disciples of Jesus and not if they were male or female. Jesus Christ changed d 'position' of women so to say during His earthly ministry. P.S. in the Bible, a supporter or helper is not considered or seen as a lower or inferior person. As a matter of fact, leaders are called to serve. i guess in ur analogy, Jesus is inferior to His disciples because He washed their feet!

once again, the question was about the stand of women in the bible; not whether jesus had gay tendencies.

If a man had se.x with a woman that belongs to another as a wife or slave, she should be punished. There is no punishment for the man, even if it was a r.ape.

Leviticus 19:20

20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

bukatyne: i m splendid too.

al these stuff u typed in ur prev post, were u taught in church, by ur parents or is it wat u read in ur Bible? i mean wat is/was the source of ur beliefs?

Concerning our “god-given” roles?

I don’t go to church but when I used to attend such was a highlighted theme and the disparity is pretty visible in the bible. However if we are to regard the book we have to consider the bible in relation to its context at the time; studying the dynamics of the society it was written in. Religion of course is a product of culture and culture is indeed a factor that has affected/determined social policies.

bukatyne: dear, we don't interprete d Bible according to new cultures else we would be supporting gay marriages and other things. like i said earlier, reading d Bible and understandin it is every important. a lot of us read n don't understand while some don't read at al. the Bible is not to be read as a story book. when reading, it is always best to ask 'Father y did this happen?', 'what re U trying to tell us?' etc. but u can't ask that witout God been ur Father.

Regarding gay marriage - give it another generation or two. Last time I checked, there was resistance by Christians and the like on every civil rights progress. BTW, I grew up in a Christian household, so I have read the Bible myself more than a few times. The difference between me and you is that I don't read the Bible assuming its the divine word of God since that suspends any logical reasoning.

Women didn't count as persons in the numbering of isrealites. Only men were counted.

Numbers 3:15-16

15 Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them.

16 And Moses numbered them according to the word of the Lord, as he was commanded.

emöfine2:





Concerning our “god-given” roles?

I don’t go to church but when I used to attend such was a highlighted theme and the disparity is pretty visible in the bible. However if we are to regard the book we have to consider the bible in relation to its context at the time; studying the dynamics of the society it was written in. Religion of course is a product of culture and culture is indeed a factor that has affected/determined social policies.

it's always good to read d Bible for one's self cos some preachers tend to interprete according to their understanding/beliefs. d OT is different from the NT. The OT basically relates to us the life n culture of d jews and there re some things i stil don't understand. the rules most of the time re reactionary i.e. punishment for deeds committed n some things were really for only d isrealites. however, the NT is about d new covenant sealed by d blood of Jesus and applies to both jews n saved gentiles. infact, the NT really doesn't have a jew/non-jew classification. everyone is one in Christ Gal 3:28. u really need to study d way Jesus related to women during His earthly ministry. He never discriminated against them and saw them as equals n gave them equal privileges. in d beginning, God created us equal only wit diff roles but when man sinned, things changed. this change was not caused by God Himself but was a consequence of d fall along wit death, sickness, wickedness etc that's y when Christ came, He restored everything back to their original position. it's well. sorry for d epistle

Logic Mind:

One again, you disagree with your bible. Is your holy book too confusing for you or is so badly written that you need divine intervention to interprete it?

About the women having money, my point was that the bible had to justify their inclusion as if they had nothing to do there if not for their money.

Anyway, have you ever heard the term "sugar mummy"?

n where did i disagree wit my Bible? n yes, i need divine inspiration to interprete it not because it is badly written but b'cos it's d living Word of God and i need His Spirit to understand wat He is saying to me. n yes, i understand sugar mummy but i fail to c d connection. so acknowledgin d women who supported/sponsored Jesus' ministry means that's wat they re only useful for? acknowledgin that Joseph paid for His tomb means that is d only thing Joseph is useful for? so acknowledging that ur parents sponsored/supported u thru school in ur final project means that only their money made u recognize them! as u said, it's ur pt and not God'S pt nor Dr. Luke's pt!

ezicat:

Regarding gay marriage - give it another generation or two. Last time I checked, there was resistance by Christians and the like on every civil rights progress. BTW, I grew up in a Christian household, so I have read the Bible myself more than a few times. The difference between me and you is that I don't read the Bible assuming its the divine word of God since that suspends any logical reasoning.

n my dear, ow do u read ur Bible? like a story/history book? d standards of d Bible never changes. Jesus Christ Is D Same Yesterday, Today And Forever Heb 13:8. People ve always n ll always try to interprete D Bible to suit them by lifting texts out of context etc. that's y every christian should read n understand d Bible thru d Spirit of God!

bukatyne: n where did i disagree wit my Bible? n yes, i need divine inspiration to interprete it not because it is badly written but b'cos it's d living Word of God and i need His Spirit to understand wat He is saying to me. n yes, i understand sugar mummy but i fail to c d connection. so acknowledgin d women who supported/sponsored Jesus' ministry means that's wat they re only useful for? acknowledgin that Joseph paid for His tomb means that is d only thing Joseph is useful for? so acknowledging that ur parents sponsored/supported u thru school in ur final project means that only their money made u recognize them! as u said, it's ur pt and not God'S pt nor Dr. Luke's pt!

It really is difficult having a conversation with you because you just type things without reading and understanding what I typed previously. It may not be only the bible that you need divine intervention to understand.
About your question about the other uses of the women following jesus around in the middle east, I'm sure there were many, however, the bible did not mention them. The bible only mentioned the sugar mummy role. Remember the title of this thread: "Stand of women in the bible". Not "other uses of women not in the bible".

When Abram became hungry, he asked his wife to pretend she was his sister so other men would sleep with her and he would blackmail them.
This happenned in Genesis 12: 9-20 and again in Genesis 20: 1-16

He taught his son Isaac this trick and he used it well in Genesis 26: 7-16.

Logic Mind: When Abram became hungry, he asked his wife to pretend she was his sister so other men would sleep with her and he would blackmail them.
This happenned in Genesis 12: 9-20 and again in Genesis 20: 1-16

He taught his son Isaac this trick and he used it well in Genesis 26: 7-16.

This is the foolish thing about the bible. Sarah was already Abraham's sister. Half sister to be exact

The wisdom of proverbs teaches us that if a man falls for a seductive and attrative woman, he is in fact an innocent victim of the evil woman.

Proverbs 5:1-6

5 My son, pay attention to my wisdom,
turn your ear to my words of insight,
2 that you may maintain discretion
and your lips may preserve knowledge.
3 For the lips of the adulterous woman drip honey,
and her speech is smoother than oil;
4 but in the end she is bitter as gall,
sharp as a double-edged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death;
her steps lead straight to the grave.
6 She gives no thought to the way of life;
her paths wander aimlessly, but she does not know it.


Proverbs 6:20-29

20 My son, keep your father’s command
and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.
21 Bind them always on your heart;
fasten them around your neck.
22 When you walk, they will guide you;
when you sleep, they will watch over you;
when you awake, they will speak to you.
23 For this command is a lamp,
this teaching is a light,
and correction and instruction
are the way to life,
24 keeping you from your neighbor’s wife,
from the smooth talk of a wayward woman.

25 Do not lust in your heart after her beauty
or let her captivate you with her eyes.

26 For a prostitute can be had for a loaf of bread,
but another man’s wife preys on your very life.
27 Can a man scoop fire into his lap
without his clothes being burned?
28 Can a man walk on hot coals
without his feet being scorched?
29 So is he who sleeps with another man’s wife;
no one who touches her will go unpunished.


Proverbs 7:5-27

5 They will keep you from the adulterous woman,
from the wayward woman with her seductive words.

6 At the window of my house
I looked down through the lattice.
7 I saw among the simple,
I noticed among the young men,
a youth who had no sense.
8 He was going down the street near her corner,
walking along in the direction of her house
9 at twilight, as the day was fading,
as the dark of night set in.

10 Then out came a woman to meet him,
dressed like a prostitute and with crafty intent.
11 (She is unruly and defiant,
her feet never stay at home;
12 now in the street, now in the squares,
at every corner she lurks.)
13 She took hold of him and kissed him
and with a brazen face she said:

14 “Today I fulfilled my vows,
and I have food from my fellowship offering at home.
15 So I came out to meet you;
I looked for you and have found you!
16 I have covered my bed
with colored linens from Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed
with myrrh, aloes and cinnamon.
18 Come, let’s drink deeply of love till morning;
let’s enjoy ourselves with love!
19 My husband is not at home;
he has gone on a long journey.
20 He took his purse filled with money
and will not be home till full moon.”

21 With persuasive words she led him astray;
she seduced him with her smooth talk.
22 All at once he followed her
like an ox going to the slaughter,
like a deer stepping into a noose
23 till an arrow pierces his liver,
like a bird darting into a snare,
little knowing it will cost him his life.

24 Now then, my sons, listen to me;
pay attention to what I say.
25 Do not let your heart turn to her ways
or stray into her paths.
26 Many are the victims she has brought down;
her slain are a mighty throng.
27 Her house is a highway to the grave,
leading down to the chambers of death.

Logic Mind: When Abram became hungry, he asked his wife to pretend she was his sister so other men would sleep with her and he would blackmail them.
This happenned in Genesis 12: 9-20 and again in Genesis 20: 1-16

He taught his son Isaac this trick and he used it well in Genesis 26: 7-16.

Abraham, the great patriarch.
He too was an adulterer ... had se.x with his maid.

ALELUIAH!

@Logicboy...Used said that Abraham had se.x with his sister and also with the maid?
This will not be part of a smear campaign against Christians?
No, no, I can not believe that! Sodom and Gomorrah was child's play !

Logic Mind:

I was just rereading this post and it hit me how silly your argument sounds. How can a god that you claim to be ominipotent, omniscience, omniwhatever, not know that I would be jumping into a road and getting killed by a trailer? If he knew, why lie to me that I'll live long?
Why lie that he'll make me wealthy if he knew I would be lazy?
Or are you saying he doesn't know what i'll be doing?

I too am not a magician and can make you such promises: you also will be healthy if you don't drink contaminated water.

dear, God doesn't lie, there's no shadow of darkness in Him. i ll always give u d same answer: freewill or d power of choice.

Logic Mind: If a man had se.x with a woman that belongs to another as a wife or slave, she should be punished. There is no punishment for the man, even if it was a r.ape.

Leviticus 19:20

20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

bros, u re misquoting d text! first, d text is talking about slavewomen. even when they were beaten/injured by their masters (both male n female), their masters go free. secondly, d slavewoman was not punished but compensation is paid to her husband to be. 3rdly, the man is found guilty n must atone for his sins wit sacrifices b4 he can be forgiven. read down to verse 22 and don't do selective reading

Logic Mind: When Abram became hungry, he asked his wife to pretend she was his sister so other men would sleep with her and he would blackmail them.
This happenned in Genesis 12: 9-20 and again in Genesis 20: 1-16

He taught his son Isaac this trick and he used it well in Genesis 26: 7-16.

and ur pt is? besides, he didn't teach issac d 'trick', it shows that lying was inherent in them

logicboy:


This is the foolish thing about the bible. Sarah was already Abraham's sister. Half sister to be exact

mind ur tongue. sarah was his half sister al right but he married her and she became his wife so he should introduce her as his wife n if he was a gisting mood tell d person that she was his half sister!

@logicmind: referin to ur post concerning seductive women; those passages re talkin about lovepeddlers and warning against their charms and patronising them. the men re not seen as innocent victims, there re referred to as 'simple', 'foolish' etc. and are always destroyed @ d end