Ptolomeus:
Abraham, the great patriarch.
He too was an adulterer ... had se.x with his maid.

ALELUIAH!

@Logicboy...Used said that Abraham had se.x with his sister and also with the maid?
This will not be part of a smear campaign against Christians?
No, no, I can not believe that! Sodom and Gomorrah was child's play !

he had s.ex wit his wife n maid and not half sister b'cos he had married her. remember that abraham was married b4 God called him. it's a smear campaign against we christians b'cos u got it from our Bible in d first place. abraham is not God, he's a human like u n i and sometimes made wrong decisions based on situations around him and not d promise of God. God called him when he was 75yrs, and when he was 99yrs, God appeared to him and said 'I AM THE LORD ALMIGHTY, walk b4 Me and be thou perfect' Gen 17:1-27 meaning that for the past 24yrs, he was not doing the right things. check out his lifestyle after that.

Wow - there's always an excuse when it is in the Bible? Because these days - if someone married his half-sister, Christians would simply say - ah, he's just human....but let me guess, it was different then because it was a reflection of Abraham's time....wait - I thought God was eternal? Looks like he keeps changing his level of morality. The man he allegedly gave the most wisdom was a shameless polygamist and man-LovePeddler. Over 1,000 women. WTF.

Oh, and when is it acceptable to EVER kill children? But that's the Old Testament, right? Just a history of the Jews - God was entirely absent, right?

I'm done with this conversation. Christians are irrational - there are some things that are simply not acceptable, neither can they be explained away. They are PROOF that that moralistic superbeing overseeing the actions of the Jews is just that - a myth...or really really really bad at his job.

Very interesting topic

Logic Mind:

one man's meat is another man's bone
what you find delicious may be a poisonous insult to another. ask muslims what they think os tasty finger licking bacon bites and pork ribs.
i am a bible preaching atheist. it means i seek out the truth from the bible and tell those that have ears (or eyes in nl)
jesus in heaven had no mother - true . thus bastard
jesus on earth had no biological father - true. thus bastard
bastard in heaven, bastard on earth

go to another man's wife and artificially inseminate her by force = rap.ist
holy ghost did that to poor joseph's wife

can you see evil happening and do nothing even though you are powerful enough to act? yes? then you are useless.

you see, i speak the truth. only those wallowing in falsehood can see my honesty as insult.

You talk of honesty when you're ignorant of what you're saying...

"jesus in heaven had no mother - true . thus bastard
jesus on earth had no biological father - true. thus bastard
bastard in heaven, bastard on earth".........
Adam on earth, what do you call him? Dear logic mind, this things are beyond you ok
You can't or have not really comprehend the mysteries of the bible.

kingk:


You talk of honesty when you're ignorant of what you're saying...

"jesus in heaven had no mother - true . thus bastard
jesus on earth had no biological father - true. thus bastard
bastard in heaven, bastard on earth".........
Adam on earth, what do you call him? Dear logic mind, this things are beyond you ok
You can't or have not really comprehend the mysteries of the bible.

Hi kingk,

You joined the party late.

You are welcome

bukatyne:


Hi kingk,

You joined the party late.

You are welcome

Thanks you Sis..... Hope the family is doing great?

kingk:

Thanks you bro..... Hope the family is doing great?

There is a big bright F in front of my name na...

We are fine, thanks

bukatyne:

There is a big bright F in front of my name na...

We are fine, thanks

Oh! Am very sorry for that mistake though corrected..............

kingk:

Oh! Am very sorry for that mistake though corrected..............

Ok, no problem

You have not dropped your thoughts on the topic na

What a topic

More thoughts are welcome

thank God.....yet another year.

Double Post

@babygirlfl,

Please go through the thread on what we discussed

@Bellong:

Want to hear your views on the topic

I have never really seen your posts on such matters

I miss Nashville

bukatyne:
@babygirlfl,

Please go through the thread on what we discussed

Thank you very much bukatyne. I am going to do just that.

babygirlfl:


Thank you very much bukatyne. I am going to do just that.

You are welcome

bukatyne:
@Bellong:

Want to hear your views on the topic

I have never really seen your posts on such matters

I miss Nashville

Sorry, I was on the move and couldn't respond when I saw the mention.

The subject matter is comprehensive and broad, I guess what you aim at asking is if women are allowed to teach in the church or not?

I actually do not do religious arguments because many do not open their hearts to the Rhema of the word but only to the letter. In addition, are you yearning to know this thing to know the truth or to disagree with opinions? Whatever it is, I will give you a short and succinct understanding of me concerning the topic (don't mind my grammar).

There are four basic things the scripture encourages and commands the women to do which I will outline below but due to my typing laziness, I may not expantiate (apologies)...

1. Women are to teach other women (Titus 2:4-5)

From this text, it is evident that women are to teach other women and that God has prescribed an order of conduct for women which, if followed, glorifies Him and causes His name to be glorified rather than reproached or blasphemed. The exact nature of this "teaching" ministry of women is not explicitly stated, but certainly this ministry could be advanced in either a classroom setting or on a personal discipleship arrangement.

2. Women Are to Adorn Themselves With Good Works (1 Timothy 2: 9-10)

Though this is not restricted to women but since we are discussing about women, we streamline it for the purpose of this discussion. The principle in this context is this: A woman's character is more important than her apparel.. Women can demonstrate their good works within the local church body and beyond through a variety of ways. Showing hospitality, encouraging others, teaching other women and keeping believers up-to-date on the ministries of the church and the church's missionaries.

3. Women Are to Be Active Learners

This is one of the controversial part and if only one opens his/her heart to the Holy Spirit, the truth of this part will not become a subject for debate. Not only are women in the local church to teach other women and maintain good works and Godly character, but Paul also commands them to be learners. In his second epistle to Timothy, Paul states that the false teachers had influenced some of the women in the Ephesian church (2 Tim. 3:6-7). First Timothy 2:11 delineates how the women were to learn in the local assembly: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." It is important to note that this statement does not imply that the woman is to completely keep silent within the entire public worship service of the local church. Rather, the woman is to keep silent only in the process of learning, that is, when the male leader of the church is authoritatively teaching the doctrine found in the Word of God.

First, women are to learn in silence, or quietness, which denotes outward manner. Second, they are to learn in all submissiveness, which denotes the attitude of the heart that must accompany learning. There is more to say here and I know this will raise dust but I pray that the Holy Spirit fill whoever is reading to understand the depth.

4. Women Are Prohibited From Exercising Authoritative Leadership or Teaching of the Word of God Over Men in the Local Assembly

An accurate understanding of 1Timothy 2:12-14 is the key to a proper understanding of a woman's role in the local church. Verse 12 states, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." At this point it is necessary to note two prevalent, but inadequate, arguments that promote an egalitarian view of women in the local church. First, some claim that this verse is simply an opinion of the apostle rather than an authoritative proclamation of God for all ages. However, as previously noted, such a view falls short and must not be tolerated by those who accept the inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture.

One of the arguments prevalent among egalitarians is that Paul was simply giving a temporal, local command only for the church at Ephesus and Corinthians as written in the book of Corinthians, due to the culture in which these churches were enveloped. in responding to this, one of the articles I have read noted that the context itself reveals that Paul's statement is not directed only to a local assembly, for Paul supports his command regarding a woman's role in the church by way of a universal principle. and the article wrote thus...

"It is crucial to note the causal relation of verses 13 and 14 to the preceding verses. Paul grounds his comments in a reality that exists outside of Ephesus: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." This is sufficient reason to recognize that some enduring principle is applied to this specific situation. The convergence of norm and occasion that we expect to find in Paul's letters is expressly communicated in the present passage. There is a command, and there is a norm, and these are connected by a causal particle"

First Timothy 2:13-14 gives the reason why this command is set forth and necessary in the local church: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." The Divine command in no way denotes any form of inferiority of women. Rather, this text reminds the reader that God has determined an order for the institutions that He has established. Paul's reasons for prohibiting a woman from authoritatively teaching the Word of God to men in the local assembly were based upon two historical events: the creation and the fall.

There are many more to write but time and laziness wouldn't permit me. If one accepts the inerrancy and historical accuracy of Scripture and correctly interprets 1 Timothy 2:9-15, then all portions of New Testament Scripture that address the role of women in the local assembly will fall into place. For example, one will understand what Paul meant when he commanded women to "keep silence" in the local church (1 Cor. 14:33-34). One will also understand why the proscriptive nature of the Pastoral Epistles declares that a pastor/bishop/elder must be "the husband of one wife" (1 Tim. 3:2). The reader of the Pastoral Epistles must understand that Paul is giving direct, divine revelation concerning the roles and behavior of men and women in the local church, and women and men both possess certain ministries and responsibilities to fulfill. However, the woman is forbidden from preaching, or authoritatively proclaiming the truth of the Word of God, to men in a local assembly of believers. Today, this authoritative proclamation of the Word of God would include any form of pastoral ministry or the holding of any ordained office. The reasons for this divine injunction stem from God's prescribed order in creation, in the family and in the local church.

bukatyne:
@babygirlfl,

The Bible is not sexist. It took me years to get to This point too.

I could cope more with sexist men than a sexist God. I mean the men met it (can't fault them), But the person that actually put me There and then claims to love me?

Tuah!

Read and studied and put everything in context.

P.S.: I do not use KJV though. I use NLT.

Sorry I had to bring this here. I just saw the part where you said sexist God. I think you got me wrong. I said I think the bible is sexist. I also said christaianity and feminism do not go together. I do not mean God is sexist. I believe there is God and I believe in him. What I do not believe in is the bible and christianiy. I was born a christian but the more I read the bible, the more I believe that men wrote it and that the bible reflects the patriarchal society that existed at the time it was written.

babygirlfl:


Sorry I had to bring this here. I just saw the part where you said sexist God. I think you got me wrong. I said I think the bible is sexist. I also said christaianity and feminism do not go together. I do not mean God is sexist. I believe there is God and I believe in him. What I do not believe in is the bible and christianiy. I was born a christian but the more I read the bible, the more I believe that men wrote it and that the bible reflects the patriarchal society that existed at the time it was written.

Hi Baby

I get you now

Hope you are enjoying the thread

bukatyne:


Hi Baby

I get you now

Hope you are enjoying the thread

Yes. Interesting thread.

bellong:


Sorry, I was on the move and couldn't respond when I saw the mention.

The subject matter is comprehensive and broad, I guess what you aim at asking is if women are allowed to teach in the church or not?

I actually do not do religious arguments because many do not open their hearts to the Rhema of the word but only to the letter. In addition, are you yearning to know this thing to know the truth or to disagree with opinions? Whatever it is, I will give you a short and succinct understanding of me concerning the topic (don't mind my grammar).

There are four basic things the scripture encourages and commands the women to do which I will outline below but due to my typing laziness, I may not expantiate (apologies)...

1. Women are to teach other women (Titus 2:4-5)

From this text, it is evident that women are to teach other women and that God has prescribed an order of conduct for women which, if followed, glorifies Him and causes His name to be glorified rather than reproached or blasphemed. The exact nature of this "teaching" ministry of women is not explicitly stated, but certainly this ministry could be advanced in either a classroom setting or on a personal discipleship arrangement.

2. Women Are to Adorn Themselves With Good Works (1 Timothy 2: 9-10)

Though this is not restricted to women but since we are discussing about women, we streamline it for the purpose of this discussion. The principle in this context is this: A woman's character is more important than her apparel.. Women can demonstrate their good works within the local church body and beyond through a variety of ways. Showing hospitality, encouraging others, teaching other women and keeping believers up-to-date on the ministries of the church and the church's missionaries.

3. Women Are to Be Active Learners

This is one of the controversial part and if only one opens his/her heart to the Holy Spirit, the truth of this part will not become a subject for debate. Not only are women in the local church to teach other women and maintain good works and Godly character, but Paul also commands them to be learners. In his second epistle to Timothy, Paul states that the false teachers had influenced some of the women in the Ephesian church (2 Tim. 3:6-7). First Timothy 2:11 delineates how the women were to learn in the local assembly: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." It is important to note that this statement does not imply that the woman is to completely keep silent within the entire public worship service of the local church. Rather, the woman is to keep silent only in the process of learning, that is, when the male leader of the church is authoritatively teaching the doctrine found in the Word of God.

First, women are to learn in silence, or quietness, which denotes outward manner. Second, they are to learn in all submissiveness, which denotes the attitude of the heart that must accompany learning. There is more to say here and I know this will raise dust but I pray that the Holy Spirit fill whoever is reading to understand the depth.

4. Women Are Prohibited From Exercising Authoritative Leadership or Teaching of the Word of God Over Men in the Local Assembly

An accurate understanding of 1Timothy 2:12-14 is the key to a proper understanding of a woman's role in the local church. Verse 12 states, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." At this point it is necessary to note two prevalent, but inadequate, arguments that promote an egalitarian view of women in the local church. First, some claim that this verse is simply an opinion of the apostle rather than an authoritative proclamation of God for all ages. However, as previously noted, such a view falls short and must not be tolerated by those who accept the inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture.

One of the arguments prevalent among egalitarians is that Paul was simply giving a temporal, local command only for the church at Ephesus and Corinthians as written in the book of Corinthians, due to the culture in which these churches were enveloped. in responding to this, one of the articles I have read noted that the context itself reveals that Paul's statement is not directed only to a local assembly, for Paul supports his command regarding a woman's role in the church by way of a universal principle. and the article wrote thus...

"It is crucial to note the causal relation of verses 13 and 14 to the preceding verses. Paul grounds his comments in a reality that exists outside of Ephesus: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." This is sufficient reason to recognize that some enduring principle is applied to this specific situation. The convergence of norm and occasion that we expect to find in Paul's letters is expressly communicated in the present passage. There is a command, and there is a norm, and these are connected by a causal particle"

First Timothy 2:13-14 gives the reason why this command is set forth and necessary in the local church: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." The Divine command in no way denotes any form of inferiority of women. Rather, this text reminds the reader that God has determined an order for the institutions that He has established. Paul's reasons for prohibiting a woman from authoritatively teaching the Word of God to men in the local assembly were based upon two historical events: the creation and the fall.

There are many more to write but time and laziness wouldn't permit me. If one accepts the inerrancy and historical accuracy of Scripture and correctly interprets 1 Timothy 2:9-15, then all portions of New Testament Scripture that address the role of women in the local assembly will fall into place. For example, one will understand what Paul meant when he commanded women to "keep silence" in the local church (1 Cor. 14:33-34). One will also understand why the proscriptive nature of the Pastoral Epistles declares that a pastor/bishop/elder must be "the husband of one wife" (1 Tim. 3:2). The reader of the Pastoral Epistles must understand that Paul is giving direct, divine revelation concerning the roles and behavior of men and women in the local church, and women and men both possess certain ministries and responsibilities to fulfill. However, the woman is forbidden from preaching, or authoritatively proclaiming the truth of the Word of God, to men in a local assembly of believers. Today, this authoritative proclamation of the Word of God would include any form of pastoral ministry or the holding of any ordained office. The reasons for this divine injunction stem from God's prescribed order in creation, in the family and in the local church.

Thanks

I get the laziness...

@Women teaching/preaching/leading in the Church: I am not hung up on that because I believe that people are called to do it so if God does not call a woman, she should sit her butt. If you don't want me, why should I bother myself?

@Bible saying women should not teach: I have read and I do not get that from the bible

We have the likes of Priscilla (who preached in the Synagogue, John Mark's mother had a church in her home etc.). We also have women who did greatly for God (Kathryn Kulman, Anne Mc'Steeple) etc.

Does it mean God did not call them?

However, my stand is still in the first paragraph... I would worry more about not been able to vote than not been able to preach in Church.

That's just me

bukatyne:


Thanks

I get the laziness...

@Women teaching/preaching/leading in the Church: I am not hung up on that because I believe that people are called to do it so if God does not call a woman, she should sit her butt. If you don't want me, why should I bother myself?

@Bible saying women should not teach: I have read and I do not get that from the bible

We have the likes of Priscilla (who preached in the Synagogue, John Mark's mother had a church in her home etc.). We also have women who did greatly for God (Kathryn Kulman, Anne Mc'Steeple) etc.

Does it mean God did not call them?

However, my stand is still in the first paragraph... I would worry more about not been able to vote than not been able to preach in Church.

That's just me

You didn't get the teaching aspect. They can teach others but not in the church when men are there.

Kathryn Kulman and co that you listed all had evangelistic ministry/calling which was to bring in sheep into the fold. None of them had a pastoral or Apostolic ministry. The bible didn't forbid women from having or exhibiting the gifts of the spirit.

bellong:


You didn't get the teaching aspect. They can teach others but not in the church when men are there.

Kathryn Kulman and co that you listed all had evangelistic ministry/calling which was to bring in sheep into the fold. None of them had a pastoral or Apostolic ministry. The bible didn't forbid women from having or exhibiting the gifts of the spirit.

Priscilla taught Apollos ( a man). You mean women can teach men privately but cannot teach in a congregation of men? What about singing as per choirsters?

I don't get the evangelistic stuff. They were the General Overseers of their church.... For example like Pastor Adeboye (head of RCCG) is now?

So sorry for the late response.

How was your Sunday and family?

Your diet wan kill me!

bukatyne:


Priscilla taught Apollos ( a man). You mean women can teach men privately but cannot teach in a congregation of men? What about singing as per choirsters?

I don't get the evangelistic stuff. They were the General Overseers of their church.... For example like Pastor Adeboye (head of RCCG) is now?

So sorry for the late response.

How was your Sunday and family?

Your diet wan kill me!

Priscilla taught Apollos? A man mighty in scriptures? Priscilla's house was used as a local assembly at the time. Women can express the gifts of the Spirit in the church and can partake in other activities including joining the choir except teaching.

Their calling was to be an evangelist not Apostles. The fact that great Grace was upon them in doing exploit led them to start a movement. The fact that they did it doesn't mean it was right.

The diet is not easy but it is worth it. I hope after the diet, your husband will allow you to be going out because "na munching time always..."

bellong:


Priscilla taught Apollos? A man mighty in scriptures? Priscilla's house was used as a local assembly at the time. Women can express the gifts of the Spirit in the church and can partake in other activities including joining the choir except teaching.

Their calling was to be an evangelist not Apostles. The fact that great Grace was upon them in doing exploit led them to start a movement. The fact that they did it doesn't mean it was right.

The diet is not easy but it is worth it. I hope after the diet, your husband will allow you to be going out because "na munching time always..."

I am mobile, will post the Bible verse

I don't get the last paragraph. You mean sex?

bukatyne:


I am mobile, will post the Bible verse

I don't get the last paragraph. You mean sex?

Sister Bukky, there are many teenagers and infants here. Don't kwarupt our holy and innocent soul fah...

bellong:


Sister Bukky, there are many teenagers and infants here. Don't kwarupt our holy and innocent soul fah...

Lol!

Was one supposed to abstain during the diet?

If So, I Don fail

bukatyne:


Lol!

Was one supposed to abstain during the diet?

If So, I Don fail

Abstinence is not part of the deal except you are on a personal retreat..

You no fail ooo, at least you dey add soluble protein from oga...

Bukatyne,
You were referring to Acts 18:26. The instruction was not single-handedly done by Priscilla, her husband, Aquila was there. It wouldn't be out of place to say Priscilla was more like offering supporting service.

bellong:
Bukatyne,
You were referring to Acts 18:26. The instruction was not single-handedly done by Priscilla, her husband, Aquila was there. It wouldn't be out of place to say Priscilla was more like offering supporting service.

Sorry just responding

Sure? Priscilla's name was mentioned first. I am 100% it was for a reason

The Bible guys don't sound like someone who would let such slide

bukatyne:


Sorry just responding

Sure? Priscilla's name was mentioned first. I am 100% it was for a reason

The Bible guys don't sound like someone who would let such slide

Guess I have to apologize for late response too . I have been very busy.

Priscilla's name came first in verse 18 when they went with Paul to Syria. This is to show probably the order of the sitting arrangement.

In verse 26 where they took Apollos in, Aquila's name came first and madam Priscilla followed.

Do you get it?