TV01:

If he was indeed playing away and if he a selling point of himself and his business is an idyllic marriage that makes him a fraudster. I don't know his wife position, what she's doing or what agreement they have, but the fact remains, he's perpetrating a fraud on the public and has lost any right to privacy in that regard.

You are wrong again.

No 1, he merely mentioned his family life in his background information. It is not the core of his value proposition, his skills and knowledge are.

No 2, saying his wife is the greatest thing that has happened to him, makes him complete and his best friend is not the same thing as saying "I will never cheat". It states nothing about the ups and downs of their relationship, it just declares he likes her alot.

TV01:
No, he is looking more and more like a man who can't manage responsibility beyond the satisfaction of his immediate desires.

How? You heard he is bankrupt? He owes you money?

You hired him and he was late for work or incompetent in the work you gave him?

HOW?

He looks irresponsible when he is organising dinner for hollywood movers and shakers to get funding for Obama?

He looks irresponsible when he is invited by the UN to talk about the sufferings of people in South Sudan?

What utter rubbish are you chatting?

Please explain.

TV01:
Notice how his relationships are becoming shorter and shorter?

Since when did instantaneous and random coincidence become scientific fact?

But lets still test your maths with the length of time with his exes in chronological order:

Kelly Preston - 2 years
Talia Balsam - 4 years
Céline Balitran - 3 years
Lisa Snowdon - 5 years (very casual)
Renée Zellweger - 1 year
Krista Allen - 6 years
Sarah Larson - 1 year
Elisabetta Canalis - 2 years
Stacy Keibler - Ongoing

How are they getting shorter?

What rubbish are you chatting?

TV01:
Watch that space long-term, it will be a great case-study. Anyone using him as a template will in all liklihood end up bitter and lonely - if not alone. Especially without his means and fame.

What case studies do you have to back up this "fact" you pulled from thin air?

Secondly, what proportion of married men don't end up bitter and even lonely?

TV01:
A role model for whom? for what? A generation of feckless men who never mature into adulthood. He is little better than your typical callow baby-father. Just richer more famous and a little more careful. No woman who holds her long-term relationship health and has a pure - not just immediate gratification and the chance to tailcoat in mind - vision for her future will get with or stay with him.

For a generation of men with sense, balls and who do not live on lululand where they think they need to follow some silly rules by others to show they are adults. Rules that has failed, continue to fail and will fail more lululand advocates in the future because they senseless believe in it and live on hope to protect them from its failures.

Men that believe they should just get into marriage at all cost and then hope/have faith it would work out based on their personal beliefs and positivity.

Such mentality is not different from someone that buys and takes ecstacy from a tout on the streets to get a high and then hope all goes well.

TV01:
Part of the responsibility of being a man is to locate and find a girl who matches up and wants to commit to marriage for the right reasons and because you are the right person. That has nothing to do with money. Or fame.

Any news? Has any comely lass made it past your intellect lately?

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Where did you get this utter clunking rubbish?

chaircover: Hmmmmmm Sagalulu!!!!!!

The only thing I can read from your story is that you travel “chicken or beef meal” cattle class. There is no way you would be in Business or first and still be able to lean over far enough to read what your neighbour is writing on his landing card.

So saggy, are you saying that one of the things that you are bringing to the table for Mrs Saggy to contend with apart from your swagga is deep vein thrombosis

On a serious note saggy, if it ever goes titts up, you can always make a heap of money teaching girls self esteem. Many of us need it


. . . and dont mind that cheating fellow on your flight. . Babanla cretin ni

LMAO!!!

When I wrote that part, I was thinking and knew some people would be saying "economy ni bobo yi wor sha" (Na economy this dude ride in).

Ah!!! Money no dey for business or first class o. If dem allow me to pay less for cargo area, I for pay and no go dey borrow money from pips to get in economy.

Saga, ah!, ah!

How long will you be misled by a few unrepresentative outliers?

Does being a celebrity speaker on Sudan (or any subject), Unicef ambassador or fundraiser make one responsible in a societal/familial sense? Those things are little more than photo ops. Please.

In relationship terms he is unwilling or unable to hold it down. A failed marriage and a string of relationships. Serial dating? At 50? Stop already.

Not following rules? Ignoring societal norms. Fine, no problem. I'm interested to know what improvement that route offers to the rules, or how the replacement for these norms offer the same benefit to society and individuals?

You've yet to spell out a viable alternative, rather you keep peddling this schoolboy fantasy of a revolving door of nubile young beauties until the end. I won't fall for that. Specially not from one with your well publicised brainiac type intellect. Haba!

That's why I say such people can barely see beyond their own desires and gratification. Oya trumpet Madonnas rainbow adoptions na? It doesn't make her/them responsible, it's just an attention grab.

We are talking real life you are referencing hollywood.

Per the Bobo, I repeat if he is playing away and falsely using his supposed idyllic marraige to pitch hemself or his business, I consider him a fraudster. If he is selling his endeavours on other points, no problem, he becomes just another cheat. If.


You didn't answer my question about the girl? Quit frontin' abi na NL sissy?

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TV

TV01: Saga, ah!, ah!

How long will you be misled by a few unrepresentative outliers?

Does being a celebrity speaker on Sudan (or any subject), Unicef ambassador or fundraiser make one responsible in a societal/familial sense? Those things are little more than photo ops. Please.

In relationship terms he is unwilling or unable to hold it down. A failed marriage and a string of relationships. Serial dating? At 50? Stop already.

Not following rules? Ignoring societal norms. Fine, no problem. I'm interested to know what improvement that route offers to the rules, or how the replacement for these norms offer the same benefit to society and individuals?

You've yet to spell out a viable alternative, rather you keep peddling this schoolboy fantasy of a revolving door of nubile young beauties until the end. I won't fall for that. Specially not from one with your well publicised brainiac type intellect. Haba!

That's why I say such people can barely see beyond their own desires and gratification. Oya trumpet Madonnas rainbow adoptions na? It doesn't make her/them responsible, it's just an attention grab.

We are talking real life you are referencing hollywood.

Per the Bobo, I repeat if he is playing away and falsely using his supposed idyllic marraige to pitch hemself or his business, I consider him a fraudster. If he is selling his endeavours on other points, no problem, he becomes just another cheat. If.


You didn't answer my question about the girl? Quit frontin' abi na NL sissy?

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TV

Since when did it make sense to say being married denotes and is a sign of responsibility?

Do you know the meaning of responsibility?

Since when did irresponsible people start getting invited to the UN to talk about extremely serious issues?

Does someone respected by the UN look irresponsible?

Or are you his landlord and he has been unprincipled and irregular in his rent payments whilst still making millions from his work?

So if a business man or a business advertises his/their numerous successes but not his/thier failures, does that make him a fraudster or the business a fraud?

Is Mckinsey a fraud? Is the Catholic church a fraud? Is Pfizer a fraud? Is British Airways a fraud?

Lets address those before moving to the others you wrote there.

@TV01

@Harakiri, I referred to the notion as juvenile, not you. Prior to your submission, I had no idea as to your age, just some insight into your thoughts on marriage. Having said that age is not in itself an indicator of maturity is it?

No it's not. I have a lot of married friends who are between their mid forties to late fifties and they still behave and act like 20yr olds.

Would you marry a 50 year old - almost certainly menopausal or close to - mother of two, no matter how hot. Would you even enter into a serious relationship with her?

You brought up Madonna creating an impression of her being faded and done with meanwhile how many women her age still look fit, active or even good looking as she is? NONE! You attempted to paint her as a frustrated woman with on one to marry her but the reality is, she keeps getting more and more suitors and she uses and dumps them like trash when she is done because SHE CAN! The last guy i remember she got married to was in his twenties if i am not mistaken...that should tell you just how hot she is in the market. You would be lucky if you wife was one tenth as attractive as Madonna when she is in her fifties.

Win her attention, not her hand.

Actually, you must get her attention before starting the battle to win her hand.

That's twice you've referenced the term "hot"? In as much as what constitutes "hot" is debatable, is that the sole or main criteria for a spouse?

"Hot" implies that the individual is of immense value in the dating field. I would have expected you to have understood that rather than make a desperate attempt in making a mountain out of thin air.

50 years old and middle aged is right. And who doesn't appear to possess the wherewithal to establish a long-term monogamous relationship - to my mind marriage - with anyone, despite being spoilt for choice? That's not hot, that's chilly.

Marriage is a choice my friend. I am in my thirties and single but believe me, i am far more disciplined and organized than a lot of married folks i know. To be frank, i know married folks that sleep with more ladies than single folks (some of them where much disciplined when they were single). Marry if you must but imposing your perspectives on others is bull$hit.

Now to the personal bits. Facially I'll concede the point, but that's still debateable. Physically, I leave the sad old codger iced. Documentary evidence can be provided on request. But be warned, your 32 year old self will also look relatively puny. Oya, beach pix face-off, you first. !

Yes, i will look older at some point and that's why i am making the most of my youth to acquire as much as i can against old age. When my height,looks and "swag" isn't working anymore, i will turn to good old benjamins that NEVER FAIL to deliver. Word!!!

On a serious note, with twenty years of high intensity training behind me and a dietary regime that would scare pre-historic man, I know I no longer possess that vigour of youth. And in men, it starts to wane by the mid thirties at best. And I am not yet 50. No dullin' man, time is yet with you.

And this implies......? What?

Picture this, post that mid thirty point, it's all down hill physically. Ahead lie more frequent and slower to heal injuries (if you are athletic), and various other ailments that will surely visit you as you age (athletic or not). By the time you get to 70, no matter your means and fame, you'll be happy if the nubile young chick - whose name you keep forgetting - just keeps you company and rubs your feet at night. You'll have memories and stories but nothing to show.

Your insecurities are speaking out loud with a megaphone. Being married isn't a guarantee for company at old age. Hell,there are young couples married for less than 10yrs and they feel tied to strangers. When you are old and sickly, you kids will be wishing you just pass away and get on with it. If your wife is still attractive, she'll be praying the choking cough kills you overnite so that she can join the single scene on time again and date fellow widowers like herself (while making use of all your hard earned assets to polish herself up). Word!!!

Like I said, a juvenile fantasy built on a few well publicised outliers.

You got married because you want to fit into society. You want to be seen as a "matured man". You have no spine of your own. Your life is dictated by the expectations of the people around you. If those same people urge you to divorce your wife, you will do it to save face. And yet, my comments are "juvenile fantasy". Get real my friend! You are not living YOUR LIFE...You are living your life for others.

Man up. Marry!

So getting married not equates to being a "man". Funny thing is, most people who i've heard say this are WOMEN and that tells me a lot about your kind of person. You're a sissy.

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Best DSTV...Rock Radio...Whatever

As expected verbose empty words. Being married does heip you to become a bigger boy. Internet Nigerians may find such concepts strange but I speak the truth as it applies to Nigeria. Who cares what the whites do?
One last thing, in future show more respect or I may have to teach you a lesson.

Sagamite:

You are a moooron!

A foool at 40 is a foool forever.

Better learn how to say intelligent things in public and have better analytical skills instead of saying being married makes someone a bigger boy.

You keep on saying moronic things like that and I would intellectually flog you and give you a lecture.

Johndoe100: As expected verbose empty words. Being married does heip you to become a bigger boy. Internet Nigerians may find such concepts strange but I speak the truth as it applies to Nigeria. Who cares what the whites do?
One last thing, in future show more respect or I may have to teach you a lesson.

At your level, fucktards may think marriage makes them a bigger boy.

At my level, it does not. That is not the thought process. Big boys are guys that can speak with sense and meet tough goals in life.

It is just the difference of life at the opposite ends of the intellectual totem pole.

I just read this very interesting post online:

Its amazing ANY man gets married. Why enter a contract which the other party can break at will. One which entails financial abuse, emotional abuse and the harvesting of your sperm, finishing with the legally sanctioned theft of your children, property and income? Did it once. Big mistake never to be repeated.

Western men don suffer o.

I am surprised I thought you were sharper than this. Just for the record there are many reasons why people marry. The reason you are harping on
is not even one. I was just pointing out one of the cultural aspects.

harakiri:

EXACTLY!!! So in other words, the only reason you are getting married is to fit in to the societal expectations of people. You are getting married to keep up with the Joneses. You are getting married so that people won't see you as the "odd man" out.

This my friend, is one of the several WRONG reasons for getting married i have emphasized on countless times on this forum.

Sagamite:

Since when did it make sense to say being married denotes and is a sign of responsibility?

Do you know the meaning of responsibility?

Not just being married per se. After all there is no teat or validation required to wed.
The responsibility of putting someone else first, caring for that person sacrificially if required. Of potentially raising children - in incidentally the best setting for them - to become upright and productive members of society in their own right. That is being responsible and more.

Sagamite:
Since when did irresponsible people start getting invited to the UN to talk about extremely serious issues

Does someone respected by the UN look irresponsible?

Or are you his landlord and he has been unprincipled and irregular in his rent payments whilst still making millions from his work?

So George Clooney is invited to the UN because he's responsible? Spare me sir. Is he even an expert? He just has a profile and influence. But this is not about being responsible in isolation.

Fiscal responsibility/maturity should be a prerequisite to marriage.

Sagamite:
So if a business man or a business advertises his/their numerous successes but not his/thier failures, does that make him a fraudster or the business a fraud?

Is Mckinsey a fraud? Is the Catholic church a fraud? Is Pfizer a fraud? Is British Airways a fraud?

Lets address those before moving to the others you wrote there.

If one is primarily selling marriage counselling or a family oriented product and falsely professes to an idyllic marriage as a means of pitching the endeavour, they are a fraud. Especially if that playing away is ongoing. Yes, there could have been a misstep or any number of issues. But if these were resolved and the ideal restored fine, not if he's an inverterate cheat and pretends otherwise.

Selling yourself or a product based on an ideal you do not truly subscribe to is in a sense fraud. Especially if you are practising the opposite.

Premier league footballers that are whoremongers are selling their soccer skills. They are merely cheats not business/professional fraudsters.

Where British Airways are (or in the past have been)involved in fraudulent/monopolistic practices, regardless of the success of their enterprise, they are still fraudsters, just as yet unexposed.

What's your point exactly? that hiding falsehood does not matter? Fraud and apparent success often go hand in hand. Are'nt we Nigerians again?

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harakiri:
You brought up Madonna creating an impression of her being faded and done with meanwhile how many women her age still look fit, active or even good looking as she is? NONE! You attempted to paint her as a frustrated woman with on one to marry her but the reality is, she keeps getting more and more suitors and she uses and dumps them like trash when she is done because SHE CAN! The last guy i remember she got married to was in his twenties if i am not mistaken...that should tell you just how hot she is in the market. You would be lucky if you wife was one tenth as attractive as Madonna when she is in her fifties.

Beauty is as ever subjective. And your sweeping statement is laughable. There are women way older who are in much better nick than Madonna. Get a look at her cable like veins up front and you will run. Or perhaps the boob she exposed recently did it for you?

More and more suitors. AKA a succession of bendy backing singers. You call those suitors? Even she knows she'd never marry any of them. They are at best lust driven and casual liaisons.

So multiple baby fathers and failed marriages are ok because she is deemed "hot" by some.

Happy to do pix again. Post the one of your best ever babe and I will post my wife. You will pity your icon Madonna first and then yourself. I have seen the pix of the best Madonna at my wifes age and younger. Simply no contest. I kid you not.

harakiri:
Actually, you must get her attention before starting the battle to win her hand.

But as she is so hot, marrying and divorcing at will is fine?

harakiri:
"Hot" implies that the individual is of immense value in the dating field. I would have expected you to have understood that rather than make a desperate attempt in making a mountain out of thin air.

Dating field. We are talking suitability for marriage, but even in a dating sense, you honestly consider Madonna of "immense value"? Pray tell, in a "date without long-term comittment sense" what is it about her that is of value? Or what makes her hot. Even saga knows it's about the young and nubile. Mutton dressed as lamb.

harakiri:
Marriage is a choice my friend. I am in my thirties and single but believe me, i am far more disciplined and organized than a lot of married folks i know. To be frank, i know married folks that sleep with more ladies than single folks (some of them where much disciplined when they were single). Marry if you must but imposing your perspectives on others is bull$hit.

Yes, marriage is a choice, but like I have said one doesn't have to qualify in any way. If some of the married people you know do not adhere or aspire to the ideal of marriage as I understand it, should I change my perspective to suit their actions? I'm not imposing mine on anyone, but sticking to it myself.

Live a facsimile of the George Clooney lifestyle or any other variation if you please. I have every right and will continue to champion traditional notions of marriage.

harakiri:
Yes, i will look older at some point and that's why i am making the most of my youth to acquire as much as i can against old age. When my height,looks and "swag" isn't working anymore, i will turn to good old benjamins that NEVER FAIL to deliver. Word!!!.

Please expantiate here as this is not word to me - sounds like one must be hot or rich to be successful in relationships?

harakiri:
Your insecurities are speaking out loud with a megaphone. Being married isn't a guarantee for company at old age. Hell,there are young couples married for less than 10yrs and they feel tied to strangers. When you are old and sickly, you kids will be wishing you just pass away and get on with it. If your wife is still attractive, she'll be praying the choking cough kills you overnite so that she can join the single scene on time again and date fellow widowers like herself (while making use of all your hard earned assets to polish herself up). Word!!!.

And being single - even if rich - is?
They married the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
Well raised, mature and appreciative kids? Unlike you I'll pass on the opportunity for a cheap shot.
A well loved and cared for wife.

You sound cynical and totally miss the essence of a mutual loving relationship. With your current mindset, I wouldn't recommend marriage to you.

harakiri:
You got married because you want to fit into society. You want to be seen as a "matured man". You have no spine of your own. Your life is dictated by the expectations of the people around you. If those same people urge you to divorce your wife, you will do it to save face. And yet, my comments are "juvenile fantasy". Get real my friend! You are not living YOUR LIFE...You are living your life for others.!!!.

Did you not say marriage was a choice? I made it consciously. Fully understanding and preparing myself first.

Divorce based on the urging of others? Living my life for others? Yet you rebut and decry marriage based on what you see around you? It is you who are living in fear based on the actions/experience of others.

I saw marriage, understood it, entered into it and am loving it. A person who has only been on one side is arguing with a person who has been on both as to which is best.

harakiri:
So getting married not equates to being a "man". Funny thing is, most people who i've heard say this are WOMEN and that tells me a lot about your kind of person. You're a sissy.

No, having the write gentic make-up/chromosomes/hormonal balance equates to being a man. Marriage ushers in a new level of maturity and responsibility - for both men and women - if properly understood and entered into. But with the right person, it is extremely fulfilling.

Not having tasted it, you simply cannot comprehend it, so instead of postulating half baked ideas and non-empirical theories, based on your limited experience and media piffle, you should simply refrain or ask of those that have.

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TV

TV01:

Not just being married per se. After all there is no teat or validation required to wed.
The responsibility of putting someone else first, caring for that person sacrificially if required. Of potentially raising children - in incidentally the best setting for them - to become upright and productive members of society in their own right. That is being responsible and more.

How is putting someone else first a measure of responsibility? Do you know the meaning of the word?

How does caring for someone sacrificially a measure of responsibility? So why are you not in Afganistan and Haiti then? You are absolutely irresponsible?

How does the wish not to marry or have children denote irresponsibility?

How does being married the only avenue of putting someone else first?

How does co-habiting stop a child being upright and productive members of society?

What utter shyt are you chatting?

TV01:
So George Clooney is invited to the UN because he's responsible? Spare me sir. Is he even an expert? He just has a profile and influence. But this is not about being responsible in isolation.

Fiscal responsibility/maturity should be a prerequisite to marriage.

Do you know irresponsible people that are invited by the UN to come and give a speech?

I thought you said he was looking irresponsible to the world?

How did you arrive at such lame assertion?

What utter shyt are you chatting?

TV01:
If one is primarily selling marriage counselling or a family oriented product and falsely professes to an idyllic marriage as a means of pitching the endeavour, they are a fraud. Especially if that playing away is ongoing. Yes, there could have been a misstep or any number of issues. But if these were resolved and the ideal restored fine, not if he's an inverterate cheat and pretends otherwise.

Selling yourself or a product based on an ideal you do not truly subscribe to is in a sense fraud. Especially if you are practising the opposite.

Premier league footballers that are whoremongers are selling their soccer skills. They are merely cheats not business/professional fraudsters.

Where British Airways are (or in the past have been)involved in fraudulent/monopolistic practices, regardless of the success of their enterprise, they are still fraudsters, just as yet unexposed.

What's your point exactly? that hiding falsehood does not matter? Fraud and apparent success often go hand in hand. Are'nt we Nigerians again?

Best
TV

Who told you he was selling marriage counselling? How did selling the ability to teach people how to achieve goals equal selling marriage counselling?

Is Mckinsey a fraudulent business when they advertise their ability to help your organisation become better and they don't mention some of their advice that has failed?

Is the Catholic church a fraud when they preach that coming to them to submit to God will bring inner peace and closeness to God but yet don't highlight some of the kids given to them to care for with love got the kind of love no child should endure?

What shyt are you chatting?

Please answer.

Saga, in your rush to batter home your point, you miss context.

I work with lots of people who deliver. On projects, processes, objectives. They are responsible. But for some of those same people, their personal lives are a mess. Can't manage their finances or relationships. For some it's their health or diets.

Responsibility is in different contexts. We are discussing within the relationship/marriage/family context.

Having said that, an appearance at the UN, being an ambassador for UNICEF or adopting poor kids from 3rd world countries does not necessarily indicate responsibility. Likewise being an ace fundraiser. And certainly has no bearing in the context of this discussion.

It takes a level of maturity to take on the wellbeing and care of someone else. Sacrificially if need be. It's a responsibility. Again, same for raising kids.

No one is saying not marrying or raising kids makes one irresponsible - in context anyway - it just means they ahven't entered into that level of responsibility. And yes you can put others first if you are not married, but you are not covenanted to do so, and sacrificially if required at that.

And yes, for those that disdain marriage, selfishness as well as fear is often a key driver. For both genders.

Per your Bobo, notice I said "If".
Now generally on that same subject, failure to achieve is not the same as hypocrisy, as I rightly pointed out.


If McKinsey analyse 10 companies and the suggested strategy does not work for a few of them, that doesn not make them fraudsters.

Enron was successful for a time even with fraudulent practice, so why are you trumpeting here?

Distinguish between practice and strategy and blatant hypocrisy as opposed to instances of failure.

As for the church. lets not go there, but the way to God in the true/Biblical/Christian worldview is via Christ, not any man-made institution, Pope, G.O. or religious ritual. Religiosity often appears as faith and mimics some of it's manifestations, but is not the same thing.

Stop flogging this dead horse and otherwise seeking to deflect matta.

Go and bring your wife. Now, now!

I will come and support at your trad.

Best
TV

TV01: Saga, in your rush to batter home your point, you miss context.

I work with lots of people who deliver. On projects, processes, objectives. They are responsible. But for some of those same people, their personal lives are a mess. Can't manage their finances or relationships. For some it's their health or diets.

Responsibility is in different contexts. We are discussing within the relationship/marriage/family context.

If someone makes decent money and cannot manage his finances, he is irresponsible!

HOW IS NOT BEING MARRIED IRRESPONSIBLE?

Are you irresponsible for not being in Afghanistan sacrificing yourself for someone else? You were the one that set that rubbish criteria for measuring responsibility? So YOU ARE irresponsible?

TV01:
Having said that, an appearance at the UN, being an ambassador for UNICEF or adopting poor kids from 3rd world countries does not necessarily indicate responsibility. Likewise being an ace fundraiser. And certainly has no bearing in the context of this discussion.

Which irresponsible person have you seen the UN call to talk to the security council about immense, complex issues that leads to great loss of life?

Is such a person that is seen as a LEADING champion of the oppressed seen as irresponsible by the world as you claimed?

What rubbish are you chatting?

Explain to me how the world is seeing Clooney as irresponsible.

TV01:
It takes a level of maturity to take on the wellbeing and care of someone else. Sacrificially if need be. It's a responsibility. Again, same for raising kids.

Again your irresponsible arse is there not in Afghanistan to take on the wellbeing and care of others?

Why are you so irresponsible?

According to your logic, people not interested in taking up something is a sign of irresponsibility. I take it you don't have a dictionary and never invested in one?

TV01:
No one is saying not marrying or raising kids makes one irresponsible - in context anyway - it just means they ahven't entered into that level of responsibility. And yes you can put others first if you are not married, but you are not covenanted to do so, and sacrificially if required at that.

BULSHYT! That is not what you said.

You said a man not ready to marry is irresponsible. To you a man of 50 that is not married is automatically irresponsible. Stop dancing silly and repudiating your own assertion when stuck with defending its stewpidity.

TV01:
And yes, for those that disdain marriage, selfishness as well as fear is often a key driver. For both genders.

Another stewpid statement.

How is not approving of marriage selfish?

But wanting to be marriage is not often selfish?

TV01:
Per your Bobo, notice I said "If".
Now generally on that same subject, failure to achieve is not the same as hypocrisy, as I rightly pointed out.

If McKinsey analyse 10 companies and the suggested strategy does not work for a few of them, that doesn not make them fraudsters.

Enron was successful for a time even with fraudulent practice, so why are you trumpeting here?

Distinguish between practice and strategy and blatant hypocrisy as opposed to instances of failure.

As for the church. lets not go there, but the way to God in the true/Biblical/Christian worldview is via Christ, not any man-made institution, Pope, G.O. or religious ritual. Religiosity often appears as faith and mimics some of it's manifestations, but is not the same thing.

Stop flogging this dead horse and otherwise seeking to deflect matta.

Go and bring your wife. Now, now!

I will come and support at your trad.

Best
TV

Cut the crap!

Since Mckinsey and the Catholic Church do not market their failures, by your logic, they are frauds?

The Pope, according to your logic, is a massive fraud when he stands on that balcony and behaves like if the church only offers 'decent' love instead of highlighting their failures?

Your logic, not my logic!

Can you see now it makes sense to think well before speaking with utter ignorance? To test your logic before putting it in public view?

Sagamite:

If someone makes decent money and cannot manage his finances, he is irresponsible!

He is "fiscally" irresponsible is all we can conclude

Sagamite:

HOW IS NOT BEING MARRIED IRRESPONSIBLE??

Ok, I’ll explain;
1. Being unmarried is not in and of itself irresponsible, but like I explained, being married ushers in a new and deeper level of responsibility.
2. It’s irresponsible – at a societal and individual level – for a man to enter into multiple/serial casual relationships with women (and yes married men can and do this to, they are even more irresponsible). More so, when this is compounded by offspring.

Sagamite:
Are you irresponsible for not being in Afghanistan sacrificing yourself for someone else? You were the one that set that rubbish criteria for measuring responsibility? So YOU ARE irresponsible?

I am not personally responsible for the Afghan situation, nor in any way liable for it’s resolution.

Sagamite:
Which irresponsible person have you seen the UN call to talk to the security council about immense, complex issues that leads to great loss of life?

Is such a person that is seen as a LEADING champion of the oppressed seen as irresponsible by the world as you claimed?

What rubbish are you chatting?

Explain to me how the world is seeing Clooney as irresponsible.

Firstly, I'm not speaking for the world, merely expounding my worldview/viewpoint.

Because one has a grasp of, insight into or expertise in an issue, does not indicate responsibility.

A highly skilled surgeon, responsible for carrying out intricate cranial operations and who has successfully done so numerous times over many years is found en-flagrante in a car park. Is he responsible?

A president, who is a highly regarded statesman and skilled diplomat, is found in a compromising position with a staffer. Is he responsible?

A West African head of state who regularly chairs and addresses ECOWAS/OAU and speaks at the UN, whilst bleeding his national treasury dry. Is he responsible?

Now to the main, the main.

1.
To plan a life devoid of commitment and responsibility in the sense of serenading a succession of nubile young women till departure. Is grossly irresponsible – and on so many levels. It’s also the height of selfishness and immaturity. Obviously taking covenant orders or the like varies this.
This is solely driven by your desire to sample without charge and your being able to do exactly as you please. Your unwillingness to fully and properly commit to the welfare of other/s. And willingly putting their welfare before yours.

2.
To base your understanding of marriage on what obtains around you and to decide to marry, not marry, slander marriage or seek to vary it on this basis is at best immature and in all likelihood fear driven. One is to understand and embrace marriage. Or of course simply opt out.
Basing your views on other peoples flawed character, faulty understanding and failed execution is just tragic.

Sagamite, you so obviously want to marry. You have frequently detailed what you are looking for (not that I necessarily get or agree with your criteria, but that’s fine).

Like I have often said, if marriage is crap, leave it or simply construct something of your own making, something that reflects your desire and find someone to co-opt into that arrangement?

Having said that, I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with marriage as originally instituted. One may have to delve foundationally to see that, but that is simply taking responsibility. We’d do that prior to entering into much lesser agreements. Having done, that it’s a question of finding someone of like desire, understanding and commitment.

Now, please present us with your bride. Good news is never too much!

Sagamite:
Since Mckinsey and the Catholic Church do not market their failures, by your logic, they are frauds?

The Pope, according to your logic, is a massive fraud when he stands on that balcony and behaves like if the church only offers 'decent' love instead of highlighting their failures?.

Failure does not make one a fraud. Nor does success mean you are honest.

It's fraudulent if one pretends to be or practice one thing to make a sale/pitch, but in actual fact does not practice or believe in that thing. Or simply put to sell yourself or a product as doing/being, that which it doesn't/isn't.



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TV01:
Ok, I’ll explain;
1. Being unmarried is not in and of itself irresponsible, but like I explained, being married ushers in a new and deeper level of responsibility.

Now we finally got there.

Now you are learning.

Never call the lack of will to marry irresponsible. That is silly.

TV01:
2. It’s irresponsible – at a societal and individual level – for a man to enter into multiple/serial casual relationships with women (and yes married men can and do this to, they are even more irresponsible). More so, when this is compounded by offspring.

Why? How?

TV01:
I am not personally responsible for the Afghan situation, nor in any way liable for it’s resolution.

Are unmarried men responsible for women that are not blood relatives? Why did you insist they are irresponsible for not putting the women first and sacrificing themselves for the women?

So saying, and I quote you: "The responsibility of putting someone else first, caring for that person sacrificially if required" is silly?

Saying someone not interested in getting in an arrangement in putting someone else first or caring for another person sacrificially is silly?

If not, then you are irresponsible for lacking the will to go to Afghanistan and instead give excuses that others should.

The point I am teaching you here is that it is SILLY to term as irresponsible something that is not one's responbility or duty. Extrrrremely silly.

TV01:
Firstly, I'm not speaking for the world, merely expounding my worldview/viewpoint.

Because one has a grasp of, insight into or expertise in an issue, does not indicate responsibility.

A highly skilled surgeon, responsible for carrying out intricate cranial operations and who has successfully done so numerous times over many years is found en-flagrante in a car park. Is he responsible?

A president, who is a highly regarded statesman and skilled diplomat, is found in a compromising position with a staffer. Is he responsible?

A West African head of state who regularly chairs and addresses ECOWAS/OAU and speaks at the UN, whilst bleeding his national treasury dry. Is he responsible?

Oh, so who is Clooney looking sadder by the day to? You admit it is not the world? Majority of people do not see him as looking sad when he is tapping the arse of those lovely young women?

All those examples you gave are lame. Clooney is not a diplomat or governmental agent but is respected enough by the UN to be invited to talk. Don't compare that to people doing their job in their field.

A President found in compromising position with a staff IS RESPONSIBLE. It is no ones business what he does that is legal (apart from his wife if he has one).

Unfortunately, your en-panta grammar is not in the dictionary so I don't know what it means. If I was to guess, maybe it means drunk or indecent. As long as the surgeon is never drunk while doing his surgery work, he is RESPONSIBLE.

TV01:
Now to the main, the main.

1.
To plan a life devoid of commitment and responsibility in the sense of serenading a succession of nubile young women till departure. Is grossly irresponsible – and on so many levels. It’s also the height of selfishness and immaturity. Obviously taking covenant orders or the like varies this.
This is solely driven by your desire to sample without charge and your being able to do exactly as you please. Your unwillingness to fully and properly commit to the welfare of other/s. And willingly putting their welfare before yours.

Explain to me how it is irresponsible?

Are you confused after what you said above?

Also take your time to tell me how it is selfish and immature? Why should you commit to the welfare of others if you do not wish to and it is not in your best interest? Why is your selfish and immature arse not in Afghanistan? Because you are irresponsible? You are putting your welfare before Afghanis?

TV01:
2.
To base your understanding of marriage on what obtains around you and to decide to marry, not marry, slander marriage or seek to vary it on this basis is at best immature and in all likelihood fear driven. One is to understand and embrace marriage. Or of course simply opt out.
Basing your views on other peoples flawed character, faulty understanding and failed execution is just tragic.

Since we are being frank here, let me be frank with you.

To state that not wanting to follow a man-made institution like marriage is irresponsible is quite foolish.

To see the failure rate of marriages and the consequences for men in the West and state you are going into it based purely on complete faith is quite moronic.

To say you would know what your partner will do and how your marriage will turn out in a few years time after your vetting process of your partner before marrying her was having only one date is purely cretinous.

All those does not demonstrate maturity, does not demonstrate rationality, does not demonstrate sensibility. It is a myopic and herd mentality existence.

TV01:
Sagamite, you so obviously want to marry. You have frequently detailed what you are looking for (not that I necessarily get or agree with your criteria, but that’s fine).

Like I have often said, if marriage is crap, leave it or simply construct something of your own making, something that reflects your desire and find someone to co-opt into that arrangement?

Having said that, I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with marriage as originally instituted. One may have to delve foundationally to see that, but that is simply taking responsibility. We’d do that prior to entering into much lesser agreements. Having done, that it’s a question of finding someone of like desire, understanding and commitment.

Now, please present us with your bride. Good news is never too much!

No, I am not interested in marriage but I am open to it.

Just like I am (and most men are) not interested in flambouyant, ostentatious and wasteful weddings but I'm/we are open to it.

Just like I am not interested in being an employee but I am open to it.

I can possibly have someone of like desire, understanding and commitment and not be married to them. If I decide to marry, I will do it on my terms. Anyone that can't agree with my terms can fck off.

TV01:
Failure does not make one a fraud. Nor does success mean you are honest.

It's fraudulent if one pretends to be or practice one thing to make a sale/pitch, but in actual fact does not practice or believe in that thing. Or simply put to sell yourself or a product as doing/being, that which it doesn't/isn't.

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I never said failure makes one a fraud. Where? When?

YOU were the one that said not stating your failures to prospective customers/clients/consumers is being a fraud. So I named institutions that don't and asked you if they were frauds.

How did the guy pretend to practice one thing he does not practice or believe in? He just mentioned he likes his wife and appreciate her in his life. He did not state anything about faithfulness.

Lets go back to the Pope. Surely he must sin occassionally and then asks for forgiveness from God, does the fact he does not, actually NEVER, mentions his sins to the congregation make him a fraud?

Does a father that says I am proud of my son but has smacked his son a few times when the son does something wrong a fraud?

Wow, you guys write too much now, I can't even follow up with the posts, when I see the length of the write ups I just don't have the strength to read everything.

Pls, just be kind to let me know if anybody gets hurt/changes mind or if sagamite/harakiri are getting married

Miss_Ife: Wow, you guys write too much now, I can't even follow up with the posts, when I see the length of the write ups I just don't have the strength to read everything.

Pls, just be kind to let me know if anybody gets hurt/changes mind or if sagamite/harakiri are getting married

My dear...when i just get to the page, i will just read one paragraph....and go to another thread .
see different analysis...

Make una no worry, I am just lecturing abit that people should think carefully before making statements and be careful of the choice of words they use.

Irresponsible.
Looking sad.
Immature.
Fraud.
etc.

Because you object to something does not make that something wrong or make the silly tag you put forward applicable to it. Your moral values are different from other people's [size=4pt](and mostly inferior and irrational)[/size].

^^^^^^ sHUUUUU...MR. value...

ronkebp: ^^^^^^ sHUUUUU...MR. value...

Coming back to that value thing, have you seen the smile I can produce with the ponmo lips?

Do you think any woman can resist my yoruba ad libs to and translation of western music without dying of laughter?

That is before I burst my silly dances moves with funny facial expressions. She would be begging me to go to the altar sharp sharp.

Kai! You no know nothing about value jor.

Sorry for being a bit long-winded guys, but one of my stated goals on NL is to see Sagamite married well and in fine fashion !

Sagamite;

1. If one preaches marriage and cheats, such a one is a hypocrite. If one "sells" marriage and is an inverterate cheat, such a one is a fraud. If one preaches or sells marriages and makes a mistake. It happens, seek restoration and keep moving. Geddit?

2. How would it benefit society at large, if every man just decided to opt for a life of "tapping ass"? For a start, what would become of the family order for raising well balanced children? Do you appreciate how fractious gender relationships would become?

3. When you get "married" you covenant/commit to sacrificially caring for your spouse. Otherwise it becomes a personal choice if/when/how you do this. The latter is optional, the former is a commitment - respopnsibility!

4. The surgeon and president are responsible professionally, but irresponsible to their families. The West African leader is irresponsible professionally and to society, even though he may be a good husband and father. Irresponsibility is not all or nothing, or necessarily based on one aspect.

5. Marriage is not a "man-made" instritution. Men have sought to re-engineer and/or pervert it. But the ideal remains unsullied. I never said enter into it purely on faith. I knew she was wife material after 1 date. I still did my due dilligence. And no, I don't know what the future holds, but I do know what we both committed to. And to Whom we commit ourselves.

6. If you meet that "dream girl" harken to this; it won't be solely on "your terms", if you won't marry her someone else will!

7. You regaled us with your sterling list of qualities and attributes. Are you saying you are not worthy of a committed long-term relationship where even more delightful offspring are raised? Or you think having a carousel of casual of relationships, where children may or may not be involved, and where you may or not be fully involved in their raising is altogether more worthy of what you have to offer?

Quit posturing dude, time is of the essence.

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TV01: Sorry for being a bit long-winded guys, but one of my stated goals on NL is to see Sagamite married well and in fine fashion !

Sagamite;

1. If one preaches marriage and cheats, such a one is a hypocrite. If one "sells" marriage and is an inverterate cheat, such a one is a fraud. If one preaches or sells marriages and makes a mistake. It happens, seek restoration and keep moving. Geddit?

2. How would it benefit society at large, if every man just decided to opt for a life of "tapping ass"? For a start, what would become of the family order for raising well balanced children? Do you appreciate how fractious gender relationships would become?

3. When you get "married" you covenant/commit to sacrificially caring for your spouse. Otherwise it becomes a personal choice if/when/how you do this. The latter is optional, the former is a commitment - respopnsibility!

4. The surgeon and president are responsible professionally, but irresponsible to their families. The West African leader is irresponsible professionally and to society, even though he may be a good husband and father. Irresponsibility is not all or nothing, or necessarily based on one aspect.

5. Marriage is not a "man-made" instritution. Men have sought to re-engineer and/or pervert it. But the ideal remains unsullied. I never said enter into it purely on faith. I knew she was wife material after 1 date. I still did my due dilligence. And no, I don't know what the future holds, but I do know what we both committed to. And to Whom we commit ourselves.

6. If you meet that "dream girl" harken to this; it won't be solely on "your terms", if you won't marry her someone else will!

7. You regaled us with your sterling list of qualities and attributes. Are you saying you are not worthy of a committed long-term relationship where even more delightful offspring are raised? Or you think having a carousel of casual of relationships, where children may or may not be involved, and where you may or not be fully involved in their raising is altogether more worthy of what you have to offer?

Quit posturing dude, time is of the essence.

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on point! i applaud ur thought!

Sagamite:

Coming back to that value thing, have you seen the smile I can produce with the ponmo lips?

Do you think any woman can resist my yoruba ad libs to and translation of western music without dying of laughter?

That is before I burst my silly dances moves with funny facial expressions. She would be begging me to go to the altar sharp sharp.

Kai! You no know nothing about value jor.

I did not see any smile oooo, all i can see right now is your stomach....show me those smiles and i will make my conclusion.... you are also a dancer Nice move!!!!but until i see what steps you've gat, then we can seat and talk..

TV01: Sorry for being a bit long-winded guys, but one of my stated goals on NL is to see Sagamite married well and in fine fashion !

Sagamite;

1. If one preaches marriage and cheats, such a one is a hypocrite. If one "sells" marriage and is an inverterate cheat, such a one is a fraud. If one preaches or sells marriages and makes a mistake. It happens, seek restoration and keep moving. Geddit?

Who said he preaches or sells marriage?

He preaches achievements.

TV01:
2. How would it benefit society at large, if every man just decided to opt for a life of "tapping ass"? For a start, what would become of the family order for raising well balanced children? Do you appreciate how fractious gender relationships would become?

Apart from the ridiculous impracticality of all men blah blah blah, what makes you think it is under only a "marriage" arrangement kids can be raised balancely. So kids raised by co-habiting parents are not balanced?

TV01:
3. When you get "married" you covenant/commit to sacrificially caring for your spouse. Otherwise it becomes a personal choice if/when/how you do this. The latter is optional, the former is a commitment - respopnsibility!

And your point is?

This like telling me some apples are red and some are green. Like telling me Beijing is the capital of China.

What I need to know is how is not willing to get married irresponsible? How not taking an option to marry denote someone is irresponsible.

TV01:
4. The surgeon and president are responsible professionally, but irresponsible to their families. The West African leader is irresponsible professionally and to society, even though he may be a good husband and father. Irresponsibility is not all or nothing, or necessarily based on one aspect.

So who is an unmarried man irresponsible to? Who does he owe a duty to that he is not undertaking for your like to label him irresponsible?

TV01:
5. Marriage is not a "man-made" instritution. Men have sought to re-engineer and/or pervert it. But the ideal remains unsullied. I never said enter into it purely on faith. I knew she was wife material after 1 date. I still did my due dilligence. And no, I don't know what the future holds, but I do know what we both committed to. And to Whom we commit ourselves.

No 1, who made marriage or how was marriage made?

No 2, do you want me to dig up the historical posts where you said people should enter based on faith, where you said your due diligence was based on one date and where you said based on your due diligence you know actions she would never take in the future? Do you? Do you want to waste my time digging it up or prefer to fess up?

No 3, if you are changing your tune, please entertain me by telling me what you think successgul marriage and the due diligence to achieve this success should be based on. What due diligence did you do before marrying your wife after a few short months?

TV01:
6. If you meet that "dream girl" harken to this; it won't be solely on "your terms", if you won't marry her someone else will!

Most likely "Hell fcking yeah". It just wouldn't be me.

If her terms (which I would also listen to) does not favour me or is not in my self-interest based on my rationality judgements, she can "bye, bye, odaabo". I am not a Real Man, I am the Ultimate Man. A real man might agree to whatever she says, an ultimate man is not scared of saying fck off when required.

TV01:
7. You regaled us with your sterling list of qualities and attributes. Are you saying you are not worthy of a committed long-term relationship where even more delightful offspring are raised? Or you think having a carousel of casual of relationships, where children may or may not be involved, and where you may or not be fully involved in their raising is altogether more worthy of what you have to offer?

Quit posturing dude, time is of the essence.

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I am worthy of a good time and a happy life. Whatever framework provides that, based on the adjustment to dynamics I cannot control, I would choose.

One thing, for sure, I do not intend to do is to herd-mentally compromise my future happiness so I adhere to some societal and historical norms to please others.

Why? Because others and even those that have died are not intellectually at me level. They are not worthy of being at a level to judge me, I am the one that should be judging them.

How can I be worried about a judgement of a foool that says you don't become a big boy until you marry. I am way too fcking smart to be worried about such a person's judgement of my actions.

Baba God is the one that gave me the fine brain noni.

ronkebp:

I did not see any smile oooo, all i can see right now is your stomach....show me those smiles and i will make my conclusion.... you are also a dancer Nice move!!!!but until i see what steps you've gat, then we can seat and talk..

You know what?

Give me your junior sister's number and lets see how long before she calls you to say: "Sister mi, mo ti loyun o, mo fe fe bobo yin badly, I can't live without him. He is everything, I am so happy". (Aunty, I am pregnant, I want to marry this guy badly, I can't live ......)

Sagamite:

You know what?

Give me your junior sister's number and lets see how long before she calls you to say: "Sister mi, mo ti loyun o, mo fe fe bobo yin badly, I can't live without him. He is everything, I am so happy". (Aunty, I am pregnant, I want to marry this guy badly, I can't live ......)

Hmm....my younger sister the one i love so much is getting married towards the end of the year....[by God's Grace], now it will take chimpanzees, gorillas and lions to take her away from her fiance because she don "love-up".....now my 2nd sister a graduate, lepa, omo-todun, omo-to wa-sibe and i love her too to pieces....she is not into relationships much...moreso both of you almost have the same personality...so una go 'repel' fast-fast... I HAVE A MUmmy here who wants me to hook her son up with her...she no even give me face....

ronkebp:

Hmm....my younger sister the one i love so much is getting married towards the end of the year....[by God's Grace], now it will take chimpanzees, gorillas and lions to take her away from her fiance because she don "love-up".....now my 2nd sister a graduate, leper, omo-todun, omo-to wa-sibe and i love her too to pieces....she is not into relationships much...moreso both of you almost have the same personality...so una go 'repel' fast-fast... I HAVE A MUmmy here who wants me to hook her son up with her...she no even give me face....

You should know that Lepa is waiting for me (Ronke you embarrased me How can you type Lepa as leper-Person with leprosy)

Which State is she, Send my details to her. She would fall in love at first text

dayokanu:

You should know that Lepa is waiting for me (Ronke you embarrased me How can you type Lepa as leper-Person with leprosy)

Which State is she, Send my details to her. She would fall in love at first text

my sister would have killed me if she saw the leper instead of lepa......chei...i fall my own hand sef....

Anyways....why am i even talking to you? you that do not want your girl or wife to come and visit you in the office, is the one i will give my sister to?, i dey mara