truthislight: @cyrexx

U are already affected by this act of christiandom so i can hadly say much to u than to say that a second open mind examination devoid of christiandom dogma should be attempted.

D fact that u are here shows how important dis issues are to u, just dont let christiandom lead u to abandon the bible.
Peace

thank you very much, my brother, your advice had been graciously noted.

cyrexx:


funny, you think you know me and the degree of the bible i have read.
just for your info, i have read the bible through and through and i used to preach it for many many years.
i have all the experience of any true christians, even the so-called born-again experience. its just plain psychology, looking back now, i cant help but chuckle
you christians just assumed you know bible more than atheists or everybody else
but many of you do not read more than what your preacher fed into your mouth
read the bible thru and thru for yourself and dont cherry-pick the verses you like.
wrong.

Funny enough, It was by personally reading the bible that brought me to Christ. I do not cherry-pick scripture. I say it as I have understood it. You are the one on this same thread who constantly tried to make scripture sound like a threat so that you could call God evil but you did not succeed.

I beg you again please just read the bible and this time with an open mind and ask the Holy Ghost to explain it to you. He will. I know what I have found in Christ, I only invite you to come share it with me.

God bless you my friend

@anony
what u are describing at Rev20:10 "tommented day and night" has to follow what we said earlier.
does satan has a material body that will be burnt with literal fire? Is the wield beast literal?
We have already seen what fire stand for, permanent removal of the subject.
Why, not try forever and ever being the subject. Since fire is the symbolic word here how then do the expression for them loosing there lifes for ever and ever be put? I thought that since we know what fire stand for, when we come accross references with fire we apply or substitute what we know fire to stand for? Is that not the way keys or formulars are use?
Hope u dont have an interest of contradicting the bible?
I dont have ur problem since i simply apply what the bible shows to be d truth,

since i naver claim to be inspired i still dont have pros adjusting my thinking to suit what d bible says. Can i give myself life?

truthislight: @anony
what u are describing at Rev20:10 "tommented day and night" has to follow what we said earlier.
does satan has a material body that will be burnt with literal fire? Is the wield beast literal?
We have already seen what fire stand for, permanent removal of the subject.
Why, not try forever and ever being the subject. Since fire is the symbolic word here how then do the expression for them loosing there lifes for ever and ever be put? I thought that since we know what fire stand for, when we come accross references with fire we apply or substitute what we know fire to stand for? Is that not the way keys or formulars are use?
Hope u dont have an interest of contradicting the bible?
I dont have ur problem since i simply apply what the bible shows to be d truth,

since i naver claim to be inspired i still dont have pros adjusting my thinking to suit what d bible says. Can i give myself life?

I don't claim that the fire is physical in any way but what you are claiming is that the fire means permanent removal even though the bible clearly states eternal torture. I am not contradicting the bible.

If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched where Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-44

The emphasis is not in the fire but in the eternal torment. Notice in the parables of Christ where the villians suffer weeping and gnashing of teeth, also the parable of the rich man and lazarus.
I know hell is a scary thing but that is God's punishment and that's how it is. We have the opportunity not to go to hell by repenting and believing in Christ Jesus.

i'm lost here. Does the word 'everlasting' mean something different when it comes before the word fire or punishment or hell? So everlasting life or everlasting God is eternal forever and ever, but everlasting fire is just a little time? Who is really fooling who here? Folks are fooling themselves for free in here no doubt.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

Once you die, you leave this flesh that cannot survive earthly fire. Your evil spirit that refused to repent would survive in hell fire for ever and ever. Your spirit cannot 'die' in a sense, it is eternal having proceeded from the Eternal One the giver of life. No be small matter to be created in the image of God.

@ image 123
the christian with the "un-christian attitude" of throwing insults here and there. go and read my reply to the insult you gave me in another thread

https://www.nairaland.com/963288/second-death-death#11102325

you may not know that your attitude will turn people away from your religion faster than anything else.

the christians, their teachings and their deeds are the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today. they are just "unbelieveable"

keep turning people to atheism. well done

Gentlemen, take note off what Jesus was saying. Anything that will make u commit a sin meriting everlasting dead with no hope of a resurrection u should cut it off, does that means we will be perfect? Far from it, but there are sin peoplel committ that there will be no hope of a resurection, (eg, sining agains d holy spirit). And his caution was to avoid such kind sin. But If it was sin due to human imperfect nature, who is there that can stand perfect? "Let him cast the first stone" we all make mistake knowingly or unknowinly, but it should not be d kind of deliberate sin against God that satan committed.

D difference is that the bible uses fire to dipict such sin leading to dead without resurection. While d rest of mankind with hope of resurection are refered to being in regular grave. But those with fire reference will not come out again. Like d religiouse pherisees that kill Jesus, he said, "how can u escape the judgment of gehena" (a pit of fire outside Jeruselem) though they were not put into that pit, Jesus knew what he was saying, that he will not resurrect them.

Hell means grave and not a place of fire, that is why the reference to remove grave is refered to as hell meaning grave being cast into the lake of fire.
Translations that uses hell in generalize terms looses this sense.
So reading wide and many translation helps. Consider more closely this differences.

Also, will there be need to resurect those God will kill at d end of this system? NO, so, d bible rightly use fire.
Those that will be resurected during judgment day, if they still continue without faith and continue with what is bad there dead from God will also be without resurection, God also uses fire to show this, etc.
(reseach what judgement day is. Note. Roman6:7) wages sin pays is dead. If some one should still a cow and is caught sent to court and sentence for a year in prison, on coming out will he still pay for d cow he stole?
Judgement day (day =1000yr 2pet3:8,)
judgement day Rev chapt20 note verse 1 to 3,4

No thanks to christiandom for spreading faleshood.

truthislight: Gentlemen, take note off what Jesus was saying. Anything that will make u commit a sin meriting everlasting dead with no hope of a resurrection u should cut it off, does that means we will be perfect? Far from it, but there are sin peoplel committ that there will be no hope of a resurection, (eg, sining agains d holy spirit). And his caution was to avoid such kind sin. But If it was sin due to human imperfect nature, who is there that can stand perfect? "Let him cast the first stone" we all make mistake knowingly or unknowinly, but it should not be d kind of deliberate sin against God that satan committed.

D difference is that the bible uses fire to dipict such sin leading to dead without resurection. While d rest of mankind with hope of resurection are refered to being in regular grave. But those with fire reference will not come out again. Like d religiouse pherisees that kill Jesus, he said, "how can u escape the judgment of gehena" (a pit of fire outside Jeruselem) though they were not put into that pit, Jesus knew what he was saying, that he will not resurrect them.

Hell means grave and not a place of fire, that is why the reference to remove grave is refered to as hell meaning grave being cast into the lake of fire.
Translations that uses hell in generalize terms looses this sense.
So reading wide and many translation helps. Consider more closely this differences.

Also, will there be need to resurect those God will kill at d end of this system? NO, so, d bible rightly use fire.
Those that will be resurected during judgment day, if they still continue without faith and continue with what is bad there dead from God will also be without resurection, God also uses fire to show this, etc.
(reseach what judgement day is. Note. Roman6:7) wages sin pays is dead. If some one should still a cow and is caught sent to court and sentence for a year in prison, on coming out will he still pay for d cow he stole?
Judgement day (day =1000yr 2pet3:8,)
judgement day Rev chapt20 note verse 1 to 3,4

No thanks to christiandom for spreading faleshood.

My friend why would the bible emphasise eternal torture if it really meant ceasing to exist?

Mind you fire has been used to signify many things in the bible: the burning bush,Holy Spirit, hell fire, hades, tests and trials,sacrifices e.t.c. How are you so sure that the symbol of fire means to end existence?

The bible reads very clearly let us not let sentiments affect our reading. God can and does severely punish sin.

@anony
U and me agree that God is not stupid, infact his mind works at the speed of light, he is super wise,
if u do believe that d bible is the word of God then the first thing u should wish to accept is that his word should not contradict itself.
Someone quoted Jeremiah 7:31(Ijawkid or so) that said it has not entered God's mind to burn human in fire, if d bible is God's word do u think that a super intelligent God will 4got what he said earlier in Jeremiah? Even human can write books that dont contradict, are u saying God cant do that?
1John 4:8 says God is love, what kind of love will it be to burn people in fire for all eternity, (will he not get tired of seing it?)

if God said he is not even happy with the dead of a sinner then u are saying he will be happier tormenting them?

Christiandom have another fales teaching that aid and create more confussion,
IMMOTALITY OF THE SOUL, this teaching carried by religions that dont even carry the bible, u also teach,
did those religion learnt it from the bible, if Jesus said u are to teach all nation what they dont know something new will it be immotality of the soul that our great great grand perant carry and died as ancestor warship that u are teaching?
Did our ancestors learn it from the bible?
Read eccl9:5,6 and 10 and see d truth about d dead, that they are unconscious and cant feel pain or know suffering. Infact the brain perishes, finito.
Look, am really sick of christiandom.
Even this torment teaching is supporting satan that said Adam (human) wont die, this teaching said human will continue lieving, then who was d liar? God?
Do u realy thing God is stupid?

WOW.

this is getting interesting. maybe the bible god is not the same as what the roman catholics and modern day christians describe as their god.

maybe he is not a wicked monster that enjoys frying people alive.

maybe he is the true creator

maybe maybe maybe

lets hear it guys

cyrexx: @ image 123
the christian with the "un-christian attitude" of throwing insults here and there. go and read my reply to the insult you gave me in another thread

https://www.nairaland.com/963288/second-death-death#11102325

you may not know that your attitude will turn people away from your religion faster than anything else.

the christians, their teachings and their deeds are the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today. they are just "unbelieveable"

keep turning people to atheism. well done

you repeated basically the same thing you posted on that thread here, why refer me to it, you need followers? you seem toknow v. little about Christianity. BTW, i didn't insult you, technically at least.but since you feel insulted, accept my apologies then.

Image123:
you repeated basically the same thing you posted on that thread here, why refer me to it, you need followers? you seem toknow v. little about Christianity. BTW, i didn't insult you, technically at least.but since you feel insulted, accept my apologies then.

no problem

i would rather exchange brilliant ideas than exchange blows

Mr_Anony:

I don't claim that the fire is physical in any way but what you are claiming is that the fire means permanent removal even though the bible clearly states eternal torture. I am not contradicting the bible.

If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched where Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-44

The emphasis is not in the fire but in the eternal torment. Notice in the parables of Christ where the villians suffer weeping and gnashing of teeth, also the parable of the rich man and lazarus.
I know hell is a scary thing but that is God's punishment and that's how it is. We have the opportunity not to go to hell by repenting and believing in Christ Jesus.

Did the fire that befell sodom and gomorah ever quench??

I just need ur candid answer..

Then we'll see what d scripture says...

Its good we share ideas here..
Thanks..

And also was the story of d rich man and lazarus a parable to mean sometin else or to mean persons will literally suffer in a burning furnace called hell fire??

@truthislight
I wonder if you are actually reading my comments at all or you ar just giving preprogrammed responses.
First let us clarify a few things. The bible clearly talks about everlasting torment. Granted fire may or may not be a metaphor. You claim here that fire means that they will cease to exist so I ask you how you are so sure because fire has been used to represent many things in the bible, but you don't respond instead you start telling me of something else unrelated to my question. Now let me deal with your comment. I believe we both read the same bible so here goes.....

truthislight: @anony
U and me agree that God is not stupid, infact his mind works at the speed of light, he is super wise,
if u do believe that d bible is the word of God then the first thing u should wish to accept is that his word should not contradict itself.
Someone quoted Jeremiah 7:31(Ijawkid or so) that said it has not entered God's mind to burn human in fire, if d bible is God's word do u think that a super intelligent God will 4got what he said earlier in Jeremiah? Even human can write books that dont contradict, are u saying God cant do that?

Jer7:31 talks about God condemning the children of Israel for burning their children in worship of Tophet It doesn't speak of an afterlife so it is not really relevant to the talk about hell fire.

1John 4:8 says God is love, what kind of love will it be to burn people in fire for all eternity, (will he not get tired of seing it?)

Yes God is love. But love hates iniquity 1Cor 13:6 and God is just so He will definitely punish sin. Remember it is the same loving God who would kill his whole creation in the flood, The same loving God who almost wiped out His chosen people Israel after delivering them from Egypt if not that Moses begged on their behalf. God has said eternal torment and he means it. Don't read meanings into the bible so that God is convenient for you.

if God said he is not even happy with the dead of a sinner then u are saying he will be happier tormenting them?

Don't get it twisted, God is not a sadist that delights in punishing sinners but He is a god of justice and justice must be served. he has given the world a provision, an atonement in Christ Jesus.

Christiandom have another fales teaching that aid and create more confussion,
IMMOTALITY OF THE SOUL, this teaching carried by religions that dont even carry the bible, u also teach,
did those religion learnt it from the bible, if Jesus said u are to teach all nation what they dont know something new will it be immotality of the soul that our great great grand perant carry and died as ancestor warship that u are teaching?
Did our ancestors learn it from the bible?
Read eccl9:5,6 and 10 and see d truth about d dead, that they are unconscious and cant feel pain or know suffering. Infact the brain perishes, finito.

First of all, read the bible in context. we all know that ecclesiastes is written as poetry of sorts and shouldn't really be taken literally.
The bible says that the soul that sinneth shall die and then it goes on to describe the second death as as everlasting torment in the lake of fire in Revelations 20.
We know from scripture that death can represent two things
1. separation from God or
2. separation of the soul from the body and not necessarily an end of existence.
If you completely reject immortality of the soul as false teaching, then perhaps you will be willing to accept that when we get to heaven we won't really live forever but after sometime we will eventually die?

Look, am really sick of christiandom.
Even this torment teaching is supporting satan that said Adam (human) wont die, this teaching said human will continue lieving, then who was d liar? God?
Do u realy thing God is stupid?

I am truly sorry if you feel that way about christianity I don't quite get where you are going with Adam's story. My understanding of it is that when Adam ate that fruit he died spiritually i.e. he was separated from God and sin came in through him. The Good news in this whole thing and that is what gives me hope is that Jesus Christ came to reconcile us with God and give us that everlasting life that Adam lost in the garden of Eden. He came, He died for us and was resurrected and that my brother is our hope of glory.

@cyrexx and Ijawkid
its really a pity d dermage that has been done by christiandom, one wanders whose purpose does christiandom serves? God's? Mmmmmmm!

All over d world with bible in hand they course scandal and give d bible a bad name,
there is what we should note from d bible,
when doctrine is said to be from the bible and it does not have a smothe rid Genesis to Revelation without contradiction Just bear in mind it is not a bible teaching. Eg.
HELL FIRE
TRINITY
IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL
PURGATARY
LIMBO
ALL RIGHTEOUSE PEOPLE GO TO HEAVEN, etc,
this are pegan doctrin brought into christiandom by the orthodox church during the dark ages.
Closely examine other Religion like hindu, budhist, shinto, muslim. U will find that this teachings is spread among them even though they dont use the bible, and this teaching has been there befor christianity went to their land of origin. Except for muslim that rejects trinity due to there having the first four books of the bible.
Even majority of celebrations are of pegan origin.

How can christiandom rightly represent the God of the bible?
Take a sample test of how well their followers know the bible u will marvel at how empty they are, though they have been going to chuch for years,
infact, they are blind to what the bible says, except when its about properity.

ijawkid:

Did the fire that befell sodom and gomorah ever quench??

I just need ur candid answer..

Then we'll see what d scripture says...

Its good we share ideas here..
Thanks..

And also was the story of d rich man and lazarus a parable to mean sometin else or to mean persons will literally suffer in a burning furnace called hell fire??

Dude, let me clarify something before I answer you. I do not necessarily hold that hell will be literal fire but I hold that it is an everlasting punishment.

Now that said, from what I understand from scripture, the fire that befell Sodom and Gomorrah did quench. I would like to know where you are going with this question.

cyrexx: WOW.

this is getting interesting. maybe the bible god is not the same as what the roman catholics and modern day christians describe as their god.

maybe he is not a wicked monster that enjoys frying people alive.

maybe he is the true creator

maybe maybe maybe

lets hear it guys

Isn't this so much fun for you?

Mr_Anony:

Dude, let me clarify something before I answer you. I do not necessarily hold that hell will be literal fire but I hold that it is an everlasting punishment.

Now that said, from what I understand from scripture, the fire that befell Sodom and Gomorrah did quench. I would like to know where you are going with this question.

wants to pull out a card from Jude about sodom and eternal fire.

On 'eternal separation' and what is also sometimes called 'annihilation' (rather than eternal burning in a literal fire), it is worth mentioning that there is a significant number of those who will be seen ordinarily as orthodox and sound in the doctrines of historic Christianity, even evangelicals, who subscribe to the view. I am sure that John Stott subscribes to the annihilation view; I think Billy Graham said he was unsure and that is why he didn't preach hell (or something to that effect and I might not have represented that accurately). Also in 1995 the Doctrine Commission of the Church of England produced a report which was really focused on salvation but what gave it huge media attention was a rather small part of it which also basically supported the eternal separation rather than literal fire line.

Mr anony
i can not continue to haggle matters with u,
d bible that should be ur strenght u are watering it, are u trying to cover truth with blanket? For what purpose? To win argument, can u reward urself with everlasting life? Dont u know that peoples life are at stake? If God will Give the reward should we not stick to his word?
1. Imagine, Jeremiah 7:31 God says that d act of burning people in fire has not come to his mind.
A precedece was set and u said it does not matter or it does not relate.
Are u the one that sets the standerd that we should follow? If u are d head of a family and u are told that ur thought is not relevant how will u feel? Dont u know that the life of billions of people are at stake.

2. You said the bible book of ecclessiates should not be taken literally, that it is writen in poetry,
that is the real christiandom in u coming out. U go to pegan religion and borrow doctrin and wish to fit it into the bible when it wount fit u reject that part,
well, as u can see, God is wiser than man cause that is the way the bible is, it does not allow man to force falehood into it.
If the teaching is truth, it will fit into the bible perfectly from Genesis to Revelation without any need to select.
Besides, are u saying that God made a mistake for allowing ecclesiates to form part of the bible?
Am not the one that put it there, it been there for over 3000yrs, Jesus did not reject it, so christiandom cant be selective when it rejects immortallity of the soul doctrin.
Ecclessiates 9:5,6,10. The dead are unconsciouse. they Know nothing at all, they cannot feel pain or suffer. Their brain is dies.

3. How well does christiandom defend God?
God told Adam, the day that u eat from the tree u will die,
whose side did u take? Did u imagine u are defending God when u said that adam did not die literally that day but that he died s p i r i t u a l l y!
Did u not know what 2pet. 3:8 says, that a day = 1000yrs, that Adam lieved for 900and yrs, less than 1000yrs that is a day with God. Meaning that literally adam died withing the day, did not leave upto the full day
But what did u succeeded in saying? That spiritually God was right but literally God was wrong satan was right. What an envoy u and christiandom are to God?
(God leave out side our planet earth. On earth d sun determinds when is day or night, since christ left the earth to get to heaven, our sun will not be Gods own means of measuring time. So, his day =1kyrs)

O! U will even Quote immotality of the soul and tell God that he was wrong that adam did not die, that he went to where? Heaven or hell?
What does Genesis chapt 3:19 say?
God say to Adam from the dust u were taken and to the dust u will reurned.

Question 1:where was Adam befor he was created?
Answer = Adam was in the dust = no where.
Question 2: when Adam died where did he go to?
Answer = Adam went to the dust he was taken = no where. So, when died he want no where
O! U will then tell me that we they children were later given immotal soul.

How can u wish i accept the teaching of immortality of the soul? A teaching that was borrow from pegan religion that warship satan and demons during the dark ages into christindom? The agiptian pharors that thier toms in the pyramid has a turnel for their soul to travel out are they christian?

Mmmmm! U cant change where u are beter take ur leave while u still can cause God is not happy with what christiandom has done to his word the bible.
No thanks.

Mr_Anony:

Dude, let me clarify something before I answer you. I do not necessarily hold that hell will be literal fire but I hold that it is an everlasting punishment.

Now that said, from what I understand from scripture, the fire that befell Sodom and Gomorrah did quench. I would like to know where you are going with this question.

Read jude 7 and tell me if it really quenched then we can really understand what we are talking about...

Ok let me quote it....

New International Version (©1984)
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding towns gave themselves up to
sexual immorality and perversion. They serve
as an example of those who suffer the
punishment of eternal fire.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and
their neighboring towns, which were filled with
immorality and every kind of sexual
perversion. Those cities were destroyed by
fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire
of God's judgment.
English Standard Version (©2001)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in
sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a
punishment of eternal fire.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
around them, since they in the same way as
these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh, are exhibited as an
example in undergoing the punishment of
eternal fire.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities
about them in like manner, giving themselves
over to fornication, and going after strange
flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering
the vengeance of eternal fire.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
near them, which like them committed sexual
sins and engaged in homosexual activities,
serve as an example of the punishment of
eternal fire.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Just as Sadom and Amorah and their
surrounding cities, in which, like these, they
committed fornication and went after other
flesh, are subject to demonstrations of
eternal fire while they are condemned to
judgment.


Sodom and gomorah were condemned or fÀced the purnishment of ETERNAL fire...

That's why I asked if sodom and gomorahs fire has quenched??

Is sodom and gomorah still burning??

The fire is eternal........

I'm trying to make u understand something with this fire/hell fire/fire that never quench theory....

Hope u now know where I'm Ðriving @??

Mr_Anony:
Isn't this so much fun for you?

yes indeed. im having so much fun from these different views justifiable from the same bible

if you can "un-screw" your mind from religious dogma for just a minute, you will clearly see that your sense of morality has been totally skewed to see nothing wrong with torturing a living being in excruciating agony for trillions and trillions and trillions of years non-stop.

dont you see that you are not safe when you eventually get to heaven with this wicked monster you had been justifying.

dont you know a being that allows humans to be tortured forever somewhere else can change his mind anytime and transfer all of his heaven inhabitants to hell just because "he is the creator and he can do what he likes" like you had been saying when you justify him.

he deserves no worship from any rational person. as far as i am concerned he can go to his own hell for all i care. such a bully deserves no recognition.

Jenwitemi:
My friend,"he" is not the creator and "he" does not make the rules. He has no right to punish any sinner because he is a[b] bigger sinner than any human that ever existed[/b].

You can claim "he" is your god, but remember that you are only as righteous as the deity you choose to worship. If your god is evil, so will you be evil.

Your god, which is the bible god, is as flawed as any human being, thus not worthy of any kind of reverence. Is there any wonder why Lucifer wanted to overthrow him? If he deserves any reverence, he would get it in abundance from everyone, humans and angels alike.

But like i have told you in my previous post, i do not see your god as the CREATOR of the universe. He is not fit to be one, period. His flaws are just too overwhelming to be a creator of anything.

if i may add, he is only as much a creator as islamic Allah, or yoruba's Orunmila, or indian's Brahma etc etc

cyrexx:
have you ever put your finger in a burning fire for 5 seconds. can you do this to a living being, no matter how less he/it is to you?
can you put the whole body in it for 5 seconds.
can you put the whole body there for a year.
(note: you have the power to terminate his life anytime, but you didn't, cos you want him tortured and you can do what you like)
can you do this for one million years
can you do this for trillions times trillions times trillions times trillions of years
if you can do this, then dont talk about morality, you and Yahweh, your interpretation of bible god are most wicked entity i ever know

i know you cant do this, it shows that your god is more wicked than you.
no matter the people he took to his heaven, overwhelmingly much more he will condemn to hell for eternity and he allowed them to be born as hell-deserving sinners by default.
such a god is despicably wicked

ijawkid:


Read jude 7 and tell me if it really quenched then we can really understand what we are talking about...

Ok let me quote it....

New International Version (©1984)
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding towns gave themselves up to
sexual immorality and perversion. They serve
as an example of those who suffer the
punishment of eternal fire.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and
their neighboring towns, which were filled with
immorality and every kind of sexual
perversion. Those cities were destroyed by
fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire
of God's judgment.
English Standard Version (©2001)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in
sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a
punishment of eternal fire.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
around them, since they in the same way as
these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh, are exhibited as an
example in undergoing the punishment of
eternal fire.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities
about them in like manner, giving themselves
over to fornication, and going after strange
flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering
the vengeance of eternal fire.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
near them, which like them committed sexual
sins and engaged in homosexual activities,
serve as an example of the punishment of
eternal fire.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Just as Sadom and Amorah and their
surrounding cities, in which, like these, they
committed fornication and went after other
flesh, are subject to demonstrations of
eternal fire while they are condemned to
judgment.


Sodom and gomorah were condemned or fÀced the purnishment of ETERNAL fire...

That's why I asked if sodom and gomorahs fire has quenched??

Is sodom and gomorah still burning??

The fire is eternal........

I'm trying to make u understand something with this fire/hell fire/fire that never quench theory....

Hope u now know where I'm Ðriving @??

i know where you are driving but do not like where.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah are an example, suffering the vengeance. They are an example of how eternal fire would be. their judgement was utter and permanent. The city never rose again, unlike other some cities punished in the OT, like the Philistines, Egyptians and co who still sort of bounced back even till date. Obviously the people of Sodom are still under judgement, as says Jesus severally. They were not annihilated. The verb is not 'suffered' but suffering.
suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
the people of sodom would collect their own 'prize' on judgement day too, they never start.

ijawkid:


Read jude 7 and tell me if it really quenched then we can really understand what we are talking about...

Ok let me quote it....

New International Version (©1984)
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding towns gave themselves up to
sexual immorality and perversion. They serve
as an example of those who suffer the
punishment of eternal fire.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and
their neighboring towns, which were filled with
immorality and every kind of sexual
perversion. Those cities were destroyed by
fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire
of God's judgment.
English Standard Version (©2001)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the
surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in
sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a
punishment of eternal fire.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
around them, since they in the same way as
these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh, are exhibited as an
example in undergoing the punishment of
eternal fire.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities
about them in like manner, giving themselves
over to fornication, and going after strange
flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering
the vengeance of eternal fire.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities
near them, which like them committed sexual
sins and engaged in homosexual activities,
serve as an example of the punishment of
eternal fire.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Just as Sadom and Amorah and their
surrounding cities, in which, like these, they
committed fornication and went after other
flesh, are subject to demonstrations of
eternal fire while they are condemned to
judgment.


Sodom and gomorah were condemned or fÀced the purnishment of ETERNAL fire...

That's why I asked if sodom and gomorahs fire has quenched??

Is sodom and gomorah still burning??

The fire is eternal........

I'm trying to make u understand something with this fire/hell fire/fire that never quench theory....

Hope u now know where I'm Ðriving @??

I think I know where you are going but you do realise that Jude could as well have been talking about an example of what hell fire might be like or the fact that they are definitely condemned to hell which is to come.
But that aside, correct me if I'm wrong. are you trying to imply that the bible may not necessarily mean eternal in the true sense of the word when it uses it? because this could imply that eternal life is not really to live forever but to live for a very long time.

Mr_Anony:

I think I know where you are going but you do realise that Jude could as well have been talking about an example of what hell fire might be like or the fact that they are definitely condemned to hell which is to come.
But that aside, correct me if I'm wrong. are you trying to imply that the bible may not necessarily mean eternal in the true sense of the word when it uses it? because this could imply that eternal life is not really to live forever but to live for a very long time.

Ok my point::::::

Éternal fire denotes 1 thing.....

Total annihilation....

Anything that undergoes eternal fire ceases to exist.....

No hope of being ressurected....

Second death............

Sodom and gomorah ceased to exist after that incident.....

when revelation talks about d lake of fire,eternal fire,eternal destruction. It means anything thrown in that figurative fire ceases to exist(total de§truction).
Compare 2thessalonians 1:9...

Let's take for instance death itself.....

Revelation tells us DEATH and HELL(hades) will be thrown into d lake of fire........

That shuld tell u whÉre I"m arriving @......

Rev 21:4 tells us that amongst the things that will cease or will be wiped out,death is mentioned.......

If death will be thrown into d lake of fire it simply means death will cease to exist for all eternity,destroyed.....


Ofcus death aint gonna feel the agonies associated with a burning fire.....

Same goes for Hades or sheol,the common grave of man.....

There will be graves no more in Gods kingdom because nobody will die .......

U see d point....

The concept of persons been literally tormented in a fire goes contratry to d nature of God.....
Why would God torment persons for sinning when he can make them cease to exist.....

That's why many claim God is a wicked God if his plan is to torment persons literally in a fire.....

It doesn't make any sense......

How much torture in a fire would make satan feel pains??


No amount of torture my bro....

Total destruction is what awaits satan and his cohorts.......

Hope u get my point??

The sentence adam and eve faced is d same sentence di§ obedient mankind will face...

DEATH....everlasting death.....
Thanks


When u Çonsider scri¶tures u'll get d full gist......

I'v always thought too that persons will literally be burning in hell and feeling pains as well...but bringing many scriptures together showed me what d point realy is.....

I'll also like to actually go into that rich man and lazarus parable.....

If u want we culd break bread on it...

:-)

ijawkid:

Ok my point::::::

Éternal fire denotes 1 thing.....

Total annihilation....

Anything that undergoes eternal fire ceases to exist.....

No hope of being ressurected....

Second death............

Sodom and gomorah ceased to exist after that incident.....

when revelation talks about d lake of fire,eternal fire,eternal destruction. It means anything thrown in that figurative fire ceases to exist(total de§truction).
Compare 2thessalonians 1:9...

Let's take for instance death itself.....

Revelation tells us DEATH and HELL(hades) will be thrown into d lake of fire........

That shuld tell u whÉre I"m arriving @......

Rev 21:4 tells us that amongst the things that will cease or will be wiped out,death is mentioned.......

If death will be thrown into d lake of fire it simply means death will cease to exist for all eternity,destroyed.....


Ofcus death aint gonna feel the agonies associated with a burning fire.....

Same goes for Hades or sheol,the common grave of man.....

There will be graves no more in Gods kingdom because nobody will die .......

U see d point....

The concept of persons been literally tormented in a fire goes contratry to d nature of God.....
Why would God torment persons for sinning when he can make them cease to exist.....

That's why many claim God is a wicked God if his plan is to torment persons literally in a fire.....

It doesn't make any sense......

How much torture in a fire would make satan feel pains??


No amount of torture my bro....

Total destruction is what awaits satan and his cohorts.......

Hope u get my point??

The sentence adam and eve faced is d same sentence di§ obedient mankind will face...

DEATH....everlasting death.....
Thanks


When u Çonsider scri¶tures u'll get d full gist......

I'v always thought too that persons will literally be burning in hell and feeling pains as well...but bringing many scriptures together showed me what d point realy is.....

I'll also like to actually go into that rich man and lazarus parable.....

If u want we culd break bread on it...

:-)

You know what, give me sometime to study scripture and look into this then I'll get back to you. I just might agree with you. however just one point to note: please don't make any assumptions upon God's nature, God can destroy for eternity and nothing stops Him from doing that.
Let me study my bible and pray about it and then we shall break bread. there is a possibility that you might just be right. God's love be with you

Mr_Anony:
please don't make any assumptions upon God's nature, God can destroy for eternity and nothing stops Him from doing that.

and he can also turn heaven into hell fire overnight and nothing stops him from doing that.

Mr_Anony:

You know what, give me sometime to study scripture and look into this then I'll get back to you. I just might agree with you. however just one point to note: please don't make any assumptions upon God's nature, God can destroy for eternity and nothing stops Him from doing that.
Let me study my bible and pray about it and then we shall break bread. there is a possibility that you might just be right. God's love be with you

Ur welcome bro......

cyrexx:

and he can also turn heaven into hell fire overnight and nothing stops him from doing that.

I realize you are taking the mickey here but I'll answer you anyway. Yes God can do everything but we must know the will of God through scripture and not personal assumptions

It's funny reading all of your post guys...how each and everyone is fired up to try and convince the other otherwise...Anyways...i have an answer, and it's pretty simple...I've read all of your posts, but not even one of them hit it directly(some where so close), and for Cyrexx ? shame on you, & Mr.Anony I loved your words and reason...nevertheless people here it goes...

God Almighty Knew That Adam And Eve Will Sin, & He Also Knew That Satan Will Rebel, That's Why Jesus Was Begotten As His Son Even Before The Beginning Of Existence, & That's Why From The First Day Of Creation Till Our Last Day On This Earth, The Glory Of Christ Is Shown & Spoken Of, Through Scriptures, Miracles, Prophesies, Visions & So On...& The Holy Bible Is A Living Proof To That


- All of the ones who says that God is a fairytale ? Means they never tried approaching God, they're just trying to rebuke his words and deny his existence, if you think you can disprove God and his existence because of some books you read that was written by man that were obviously more lost then you, then keep on reading more and more of these books, it wont make a difference really...Once lost,always lost, unless saved by a miracle (I)

- Speaking about miracle ? You will definitely experience a miracle once you accept Christ...Why ? Simple...Christ is Love, actually, he's the source of everything that has to do with LOVE...so unless you don't accept him as your own savior and truly understand his word & abide in it, you wont then experience that love for real. God is pure and holy, how do you expect to witness his glory and feel his holy spirit if you did not commit your life as much as possible to his own image ? Do you really expect that you will experience the presence of God while you still live in your filthy ways ? God is holy, and the only way for you to reach him and feel him, is for you being holy 2 ! You want a proof that God exists ? No one can proof this to you only yourself, so it's either you except him and have a relationship with him(& then & only then you'll know that he does exist) or you just shut your mouth... yes i said shut your mouth, and stop trying to disprove his existence with some filthy theories that you read/heard about from others...The only reason these theories came to existence it's because in no way or form these men tried reaching for God, the only thing they did was disproving his existence, and guess what, they had no answer either....You want to know if God exists, then go to him and stop wasting your time trying to sound philosophical and whatever...Billions of philosophers argued about it...& no one will have an answer for you...only you'll have an answer for yourself ! It's funny how people say that God does not exist, and the only thing they try to do is always disproving his existence...God exists, and he is holy, and the only way for you to be reconciled with him is through Jesus Christ...And yes hell exists, it's even more real then your life on earth, if hell did not exists then the sacrifice of Jesus would have no meaning...Jesus died for you to be with him in God's kingdom...why does he want you to be with him in God's kingdom ? Besides it being the most beautiful place in existence...he wants you to escape hell, which is made for the devil and the one who follows the devil...That's why he came for us...God is not harsh, he created hell for the devil and his followers...You decide if you want hell or not...It's so simple...Most people nowadays are following the devil without even noticing it ! It's in their everyday life! Actions...Songs...Thoughts...Pleasures ! It's everywhere, but the people take it as OPEN MIND and UP2DATE...like seriously, i have seen all kinds of filthiness in this so called open mindedness age...And the sad part that people loves it...you know why ? Cz they're not acting as human beings anymore, they're acting like animals...yep...all lovers of pleasure... no more love...drunkenness...drugs...prostitution...even relationships between one another are being destroyed...& that's when Satan rules, & God loses...Yep, the only way God could win your soul is by JesusChrist, his begotten son whom he prepared for you since before the beginning of age...But the sad truth is, that the more you give yourself up to this world and it's filthy pleasures, the more your gonna be drawn into this vortex...Yes God knew Satan will rebel & Adam & Eve will sin, and we are the living proof of that...& Yes that's why Jesus came, he came for if you believed in him and in his message of love, then you are surely saved..But as long as you are trying to say that he's a fairytale instead of trying to embrace him and find the answer on your own, as long as your just wasting your time in here arguing and arguing...Then his message will be missed ! And for Cyruxx who claims that he was born again and so on, i say unto you my brother, that you were never born again, cz if that was the case, you wouldn't have talked like that...It would have been better for you to not know Christ, then to know him & praise him, and then leave him...For am telling you the truth, if you really knew him, you wouldn't be in here testing against him...The only reason you worshiped him is because you wanted something in return, and once you didn't get it...You flew away...Anyways, there are a lot of testimonies in the site that am gonna give you shortly that will open your eyes about heaven and hell, these are the testimonies of several people whom had visions about heaven and hell by Jesus himself...You don't believe them, it's your own belief, but that doesn't mean that they're not true... Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh ; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions... You can check them out in here : http://divinerevelations.info/


P.S : anyone who's gonna debunk this msg dnt waste your time...Am not here for arguments, i just gave the truth and my own experience....But just one notice before i leave...Anyone who claims that God does not exist and he himself did not try to reach him, is considered a fool. Many have reached him...So, once you've tried to truly reach him and you weren't successful ....then you have the rights to come and say he does not exist...& there's no way you wont find him if you truly sought him... Just like Satanists exists, so do the Believers not like Cyruxx... It's not to late though brother... Take care everyone...May the lord be with you all

@ijawkid and truthislight,
I can see how busy you people are trying to water down the bible. If you like define hell in whatever way that reliefs you from its fears at the end of the day you will still cross over to eternity and see that it actually exists and that all your flimsy definitions and interpretations about eternal torment doesnt hold. Better face it now and get free from it through purifying yourself with the blood of Jesus. It will be too late to face it when you cross over to eternity.

@ Heknows
let me start by giving back what you wrongly gave me.
SHAME ON YOUR SHAMELESS BRAIN for jumping into a discussion that you did not know what transpired before know.
just because you disagree with my view as an atheist, next thing is to pronounce shame. do i have less right than you to have my own personal beliefs. right back to you, shameless, ignorant i.diot.

now, to address your case.
I and Mr Anony, truthislight and ijawkid has beed exchanging ideas brilliantly and peacefully. they based their beliefs on the bible, which is ok for them, im not disputing that. but personally, i did not because of the reasons i have stated earlier. (go to my earlier post, you, ignorant, rude, bigmouthed i.diot)

you claim i was not born again as if you know me. you christians can be annoying and the worst thing is that you dont know it. I dont know you and you dont know me. so it is foolish and preposterous of you to make such a conlusion.


about that divine revelation stuff you had been spouting off everywhere, fellow christians who are not as dubious as you have shown that all the testimonies are just a hoax. go to this thread https://www.nairaland.com/965982/book-mary-baxter-dangerous-not#11139848 to see for yourself
but i know you will still keep your dubiousness and dishonesty and you may not go there

everything i have said, you cannot prove it wrong, the next thing for your ignorant blockhead to jump in rudely and call me a fool. everybody reading this will know who is really the fool.

as much as i try to follow peace with all men, some, though not all, christians will just bring out the anger in me against my wish.

if your god is alive outside your brain, why dont you tell him to strike me dead. that should be easy for a god that sends people to hell. the fact that he needs you to defend him, justify his wickedness and prove his existence speaks volumes much much louder than any words you can ever utter out of your loudmouthed ignorant brain.

N.B. I am not referring to all christians with this statements. only to the rude ignorant ones among them like this Heknows, who does not know his left hand from his right hand, but to pronounce shame from his shameless blockhead.

final note: like i said before, some christians (NOT ALL) are the greatest single cause of atheism. their attitudes will turn people away from their religion faster than any other book written by non-christians. those christians, their beliefs (eg eternal wickedness) and their deeds are the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today because they are just "UNBELIEVEABLE"

keep turning people to atheism, you rude ignorant dickhead