Bidam:

I THINK AM DONE SPEAKING with a spiritual fool like you..am waiting for guys with biblical sense to debate with. BUT LEMME GIVE YOU A PIECE OF ADVICE “If you're right about Hell, I’ll just be dead and unconscious someday; But if the Bible is right about Hell, you’ll burn in hell-fire for ALL ETERNITY.” So which road am I safer on, the Jehovah’s Witnesses road or the Bibles? I’ll take the Bible road any day! “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the DAMNATION OF HELL?” (Matthew 23:33). “And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:46). If there is no consciousness in the grave of the dead, then how can one’s punishment be everlasting? The Bible must be taken at face value, it says what it means and means what it says. The Bible has much to say about hell. The Bible has more to say about hell than it does about heaven, read it for yourself.

By looking at the world today, you should know the hell threat is useless. It insults God more than it scares any thinking person. And it's just plain false. Worship the loving God because you truly love Him and believe in His righteous and just ways, not because you fear He'll burn you eternally.

Clearly, the Bible shows that the idea of burning humans alive in fire did not come up into God's mind, calls it an abomination.

Jer32:25 'And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination , to cause Judah to sin.'

It was common pagan practice of Baal worshippers to sacrifice life children in fire and it disgusted God. It's a big insult to God and an obvious work of Satan to say God will do same.

TroGunn:

Those who believe in Christ still die physically, even now. The reward of eternal life is yet future

WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW.

John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES ARE JW TWISTING AND DISTORTION TO SUIT THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRET IONS..OFCOS YOU ARE ONE AND THERE IS NO POINT ARGUING WITH THE WATCH TOWER ANYWAY...I SMELL THEM ALL OVER THIS THREAD AND THE LIKES OF FROSBEL WHO CLAIM HE IS NOT..SUCH HYPOCRISY.

Bidam: WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW.

John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES ARE JW TWISTING AND DISTORTION TO SUIT THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRET IONS..OFCOS YOU ARE ONE AND THERE IS NO POINT ARGUING WITH THE WATCH TOWER ANYWAY...I SMELL THEM ALL OVER THIS THREAD AND THE LIKES OF FROSBEL WHO CLAIM HE IS NOT..SUCH HYPOCRISY.

Kindly explain John 14:3

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

John 14 v 3

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

We must understand that salvation was for only the Jews and proselytes before the death of Christ.
The condition for being righteous was different under the law.
Therefore, everyone that died before the death of Christ won't be judged by Christ cos they were saved under the law through sacrifices for atonement.
In the above verse Christ is telling us He will go prepare a place for people who believe in him. (This exclude those who had died before the death of Christ)

Our faith and confidence is the hope of His coming. He shall come to get the church "the living and the sleeping saints" just as He has promised.

frosbel:


Kindly explain John 14:3

and why should i? Until you tender an apology for editing, misapplying, misrepresenting and misinterpreting what i said before i obliged you. Infact why should i anyway, i don't give that which is holy to dogs and neither do i cast precious pearls before swines least they trample on them like you are doing to others in this thread and other threads.

Bidam: WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW.

John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.


John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES ARE JW TWISTING AND DISTORTION TO SUIT THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRET IONS..OFCOS YOU ARE ONE AND THERE IS NO POINT ARGUING WITH THE WATCH TOWER ANYWAY...I SMELL THEM ALL OVER THIS THREAD AND THE LIKES OF FROSBEL WHO CLAIM HE IS NOT..SUCH HYPOCRISY.

Lol @ the bolded.....

So there is no more ""he that endureth to the end is the one that would be saved""?......

Eternal life is futuristic my bro...stop saying things you don't really know...if you have eternal life now then I guess you aren't gonna get old in this world...........

Bidam if I see grey hair for your head we go fight ...........if you ever get old we go fight too........

Bidam: and why should i? Until you tender an apology for editing, misapplying, misrepresenting and misinterpreting what i said before i obliged you. Infact why should i anyway, i don't give that which is holy to dogs and neither do i cast precious pearls before swines least they trample on them like you are doing to others in this thread and other threads.

You were misapplying the word of GOD as you are apt to do.

Repent from your error lest you mislead others to ruin.

The resurrection whether spiritual or physical for the dead in Christ is at a future date, no one, except Jesus has resurrected, and his resurrection is significant in that he has elevated us into heavenly places, but this does not mean we have resurrected.

Why can't you guys if you have the truth provide an answer to one simple question, if the dead are in heaven or hell then the resurrection is worthless , a pretend event, a show and a deceptive one at that.

Answer this simple question , what does John 14;3 mean , if you cannot answer then ignore rather than say more misleading things that might come back to haunt you.

btw , why did you run away from my other thread on the resurrection and it's significance ? You provided a somewhat haphazard response which was in no way aligned to my questions.

shdemidemi: Our faith and confidence is the hope of His coming. He shall come to get the church "the living and the sleeping saints" just as He has promised.

but if the sleeping saints who existed at the time of Jesus are in heaven with him, why was he telling them in John 14;3 that he is coming back for them, did he come in some secret rapture that no one is aware of ?

frosbel:
You were misapplying the word of GOD as you are apt to do.

you twisted what i said just like you twisted scriptures about hell.The bible did not mince words when describing hell. hell is hell. you only quote scriptures to suit your mischief when you notice you are about to loose an argument.

Repent from your error lest you mislead others to ruin.

LOL..who is the false heretic teacher on nairaland? let others judge NOT you.

The resurrection whether spiritual or physical for the dead in Christ is at a future date, no one, except Jesus has resurrected, and his resurrection is significant in that he has elevated us into heavenly places, but this does not mean we have resurrected

physically maybe..BUT in the spiritual context i don't agree.Do you know what it takes to be born of the Spirit?

Why can't you guys if you have the truth provide an answer to one simple question, if the dead are in heaven or hell then the resurrection is worthless , a pretend event, a show and a deceptive one at that.

The scriptures are in symbolic codes..you are looking at those scriptures with the eyes of JW. Repent and Christ will show you His mysteries.

Answer this simple question , what does John 14;3 mean , if you cannot answer then ignore rather than say more misleading things that might come back to haunt you.

For swines this scripture will be difficult to understand.since you have your own personal interpretation which is literal i believe. if i tell you what Jesus meant will you believe?

btw , why did you run away from my other thread on the resurrection and it's significance ? You provided a somewhat haphazard response which was in no way aligned to my questions.

i never did. i just quoted some scriptures for you to ponder on. but i guess it will be futile trying to show you your folly.

ijawkid:

Lol @ the bolded.....

So there is no more ""he that endureth to the end is the one that would be saved""?......

Eternal life is futuristic my bro...stop saying things you don't really know...if you have eternal life now then I guess you aren't gonna get old in this world...........

Bidam if I see grey hair for your head we go fight ...........if you ever get old we go fight too........

that is always the problem with JW.LET US START WITH ELEMENTARY STUFF. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY THE WORD FAITH? IS IT NOW OR FUTURE?

TroGunn: By looking at the world today, you should know the hell threat is useless. It insults God more than it scares any thinking person.

OK. now i get the picture. the philosophies of men has now taken over what God has said in your bible abi?

And it's just plain false. Worship the loving God because you truly love Him and believe in His righteous and just ways, not because you fear He'll burn you eternally.

that's where you err my brother. you neither know the scriptures nor the power in it. we love GOD because He first loved us and not the other way round. that was why i asked you why did JESUS has to die for sinners? YOU ARE YET TO GIVE ME A REASONABLE ANSWER.

Clearly, the Bible shows that the idea of burning humans alive in fire did not come up into God's mind, calls it an abomination.

your personal interpretation no doubt which has nothing to do with eternal judgement.

Jer32:25 'And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination , to cause Judah to sin.'

It was common pagan practice of Baal worshippers to sacrifice life children in fire and it disgusted God. It's a big insult to God and an obvious work of Satan to say God will do same.

since the devil can deceive people like this and is disgusting. Don't you think the devil is no fool concerning the wrath to come? the might deceive you and others concerning hell just like eve was beguiled and deceived but not saints who understand the will, mind and purpose of God.

Pygru: Frobel is very deceptive!
1. Editing posts.
2. He makes it hard for others to quote his posts sometimes.

R u just aware?

Bidam: that is always the problem with JW.LET US START WITH ELEMENTARY STUFF. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY THE WORD FAITH? IS IT NOW OR FUTURE?

Lol...talking about living forever it is futuristic....I don't understand how you want to obtain eternal life now without God bringing an end to this system......why on earth do you think you need to endure to the end??...why are you still suffering from old age and death??.....

Faith is what would make one endure to the end.......

No wonder Nigeria is in an abject mess, if these are the calibre of Christians left we are almost doomed, but I know God has reserved a few who have not bowed the knee to baal.

Bidam is a true reflection of all that is wrong with the Nigeria brand of Christianity, seeped deep in biblical malpractices, cannot properly divide the word of God, will not debate with facts, rather chooses blind faith and tradition, dumps reason and logic in favour of irrational beliefs etc.

One in his team, in the same article, talked about demons drinking blood while belonging to a church that spends 90% of their efforts on chasing perceived enemies, including witches, demons, wizards, monsters and all manner of creatures.

Tell me, how can these people who rely on the whims and caprices of men, ever come to a knowledge of the truth?

Bidam: OK. now i get the picture. the philosophies of men has now taken over what God has said in your bible abi? that's where you err my brother. you neither know the scriptures nor the power in it. we love GOD because He first loved us and not the other way round. that was why i asked you why did JESUS has to die for sinners? YOU ARE YET TO GIVE ME A REASONABLE ANSWER.

your personal interpretation no doubt which has nothing to do with eternal judgement.
since the devil can deceive people like this and is disgusting. Don't you think the devil is no fool concerning the wrath to come? the might deceive you and others concerning hell just like eve was beguiled and deceived but not saints who understand the will, mind and purpose of God.

My point is that only the truth from the Bible can lead to real change in people, not false eternal fire punishment scaremongering.

Now I answered clearly with scriptures why Jesus came to die so we can have a release from the shackles of sin and death that Adam's got us into. Do go and reread my post again, slowly. If you have a point to make, please do and back it up with the scriptures.

You must know that God cannot contradict himself, since God is not confused. It's wrong and deceitful to pick scriptures out of context that seem to fit your preheld, centuries old, pagan-derived doctrines and completely ignore the numerous other verses that clearly indicate something different and gives a more holistic view of the matter.

A real Christian believes all of the scriptures and comes to an understanding or belief that is not contradictory to other key biblical teachings, such as the resurrection.

TroGunn:

My point is that only the truth from the Bible can lead to real change in people, not false eternal fire punishment scaremongering.

Now I answered clearly with scriptures why Jesus came to die so we can have a release from the shackles of sin and death that Adam's got us into. Do go and reread my post again, slowly. If you have a point to make, please do and back it up with the scriptures.

You must know that God cannot contradict himself, since God is not confused. It's wrong and deceitful to pick scriptures out of context that seem to fit your preheld, centuries old, pagan-derived doctrines and completely ignore the numerous other verses that clearly indicate something different and gives a more holistic view of the matter.

A real Christian believes all of the scriptures and comes to an understanding or belief that is not contradictory to other key biblical teachings, such as the resurrection.

you are still not getting it are you? i don't have the time for frosbel and is heretic teachings but it's like you have a good HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS THAT IS WHY I AM REPLYING YOU.Nobody is disputing the fact that OUR GOD IS A MERCIFUL, LOVING FATHER.YOU are just picking one part of the scripture and discarding others.This is NOT a pagan derived doctrines BUT REALITIES FOUND IN SCRIPTURES. AM NOT THE ONE SAYING THAT GOD WOULD PUNISH SINNERS BUT IT IS THERE IN THE BIBLE. Have you NOT READ OUR God is a consuming fire, a God of vengeance and wrath? you also go read the bible.it is indeed a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LORD.

^^^



Learn

The Origin of Hell-Fire in Christian Teaching

_________________________


The concept of a soul within us that cannot die first became a ‘Christian’ doctrine at the end of the second century AD. Hell had been taught in Greek philosophy long before the time of Jesus, with Plato (427-347 BC) as the important leader in this thinking.

The teaching of an everlasting place of punishment for the wicked is the natural consequence of a belief in an immortal soul. By the year AD 187, it was understood that life, once we have it, is compulsory; there is no end to it, either now or in a world to come. We have no choice as to its continuance, even if we were to commit suicide to end it.

At the end of the 2nd century Christianity had begun to blend Greek philosophy —human speculative reasoning, with the teachings of God’s Word. Such words and phrases as ‘continuance of being’, ‘perpetual existence’, ‘incapable of dissolution’ and ‘incorruptible’ began to appear in so-called Christian writings. These had come straight from Plato, the Greek philosopher, all those years before Jesus. Other phrases used were ‘the soul to remain by itself immortal’, and ‘an immortal nature’. It was taught that this is how God made us. But this idea derives from philosophy, not divine inspiration. There are no such words in the Bible. It was Athenagorus, a Christian, but whose teachings, according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, were strongly tinged with Platonism, who had introduced the teaching of an immortal soul into Christianity. In this way, he paved the way for the logical introduction of eternal torment for immortal, but sinful, souls. This was a hundred years and more after the time of the apostles, and came straight from popular philosophy. The apostles had consistently taught that death is a sleep, to be followed by resurrection. The early church leaders – Clement, Ignatius, Hermas, Polycarp, and others who also believed that death is a sleep, taught that the wicked are destroyed forever by fire – their punishment was to be annihilation. These leaders did not teach of an immortal soul to be tortured by fire in hell for eternity.

About AD 240 Tertullian of Carthage took up the teaching of an immortal soul. It was he who added the further, but logical dimension. He taught the endless torment of the immortal soul of the wicked was parallel to the eternal blessedness of the saved, with no sleep of death after this life.

This came at a time when many Christians were being burned for their faith and it was natural for them to accept that their persecutors would at death be consigned to an ever-burning hell for the persecution they had inflicted on others while they went straight to eternal bliss.

From the third century the darkness of the infiltration of man-made beliefs into Christianity deepened until the Dark Ages had smothered almost all the light of God’s Word. At the beginning of this time, the first attempts were made to create a systematic set of beliefs. It is not surprising that an ever-burning hell and the immortality of the soul were prominently included.

It is at this time that such beliefs, held by most Christians today, had their origin. An ever-burning hell has remained a commonly taught doctrine of the Christian religion to this day. It was not based on the Bible but on philosophy. Bible verses were later sought to uphold the ancient philosophies of the Greeks, and added to the teaching.

Eventually under the influence of Augustine, AD 430, the concept of endless conscious torment was brought into general acceptance by the Catholic Church in the Western world. He taught that all souls were deathless and consequently the lost would experience endless fires of punishment, immediately upon the end of this life.

Purgatory and places of purification.

Other pagan philosophers, along with some of the poets of the day, were repulsed by the immorality of this teaching, and developed the idea of a place where the fleshly body was purified by fire but, at the completion of purification, would find release. It was a middle way between heaven and hell. This concept had its origin in Persian teaching. From there it passed to certain Jewish groups, and later was taken into Christian thought and teaching.

It arose out of the Gnostic idea that the body, flesh and matter, is inherently evil and must be purified and purged by fire elsewhere. But we know bodies can be exhumed for examination, so it cannot be true that the flesh goes elsewhere.

A similar view was held in Egypt, with prayers and services for the dead and payments made to priests for them to intercede for the dead. The idea of a place like purgatory did not have its beginnings in the Christian church, but in ancient pagan religions. The foundations had been established by Augustine’s teaching of eternal hell. Purgatory was added, and later fully confirmed by Pope Gregory the Great, about 582. Purgatory could not be supported by the standard canon of the Bible and it was the books of the Apocrypha that were used to justify this new idea.

A similar teaching appeared in Moslem and Jewish belief. The inhabitants of the world were seen as good, bad and ‘middling’. It was believed that, if one died with curable offences, these would be purified by pain and torment as a preparation for heavenly bliss. By 1439 the teaching of purgatory, with services and prayers for the dead, to spare them years of this pain, was fully accepted in the Western Catholic world – Italy, Spain, England, France, and was ratified by Pope Eugenius IV. It was not known or taught in Eastern Christianity, which was not influenced by Rome.

It is sometimes taught that even the righteous go to such a place for a lesser time so that the stains of sin can be burned from them, and this can be greatly hastened if certain exercises are undertaken. At the end of this time any that are incorrigible are sent to hell forever and the righteous go to a place of eternal blessedness.

Heaven and hell are seen to be existing together side by side forever and ever. This means that Jesus the Saviour can never see an end of the sin and misery He came to die for. Any teaching of the eternal co-existence of evil and good is not in the Bible, but is a teaching from Greek philosophy.

The Waldenses who had fled to the mountains to remain free from the heresies that were developing in the Catholic Church and also to escape persecution, taught the sleep of death and instant destruction by fire at the resurrection of the wicked. Their persecuting inquisitors reported that they entirely rejected the teaching of purgatory. The Cathari and the Hussites also rejected hell, thus leading the way for the teachings of the later Reformers.

The Reformers

The Reformers strongly rejected hell and purgatory, because by this time the teaching had become heavily corrupted by the sale of indulgences. These were the payments made to the priests to reduce the years of purification spent in purgatory.

Wycliffe taught that death was an unconscious sleep, as did Tyndale and Luther, (although it has to be said that Luther was not always consistent in his beliefs.) They taught neither hell or purgatory. They taught that ‘men are breath in bodies’ and not ‘souls in bodies‘.

Calvin, however, taught that those who were sinners went to the eternal pains of hell at the time of their death and even denied a middle place or purgatory. The Reformed churches, like Calvin, have generally maintained a belief in an immortal soul and hell-fire, but do not teach purgatory

The Resurrection and Hell.

How do the concept of an ever-burning hell and the Bible teaching of resurrection fit together? Over the centuries there has been a blending of Bible teachings with the teachings of men. It was known that the Bible speaks of resurrection, and also of death by fire. The compromise view sees the body being resurrected and rejoining its soul again and then both being tormented together by fire.

Athenagorus taught that a person can never die or come to an end; life is ours for always. He taught that we have been made intelligent just for the purpose of continuing life - even if it be in Hell. He also taught that a body is given to the soul, and we are born into this world to pass through this life as two entities. These two are separated at death but, at the resurrection, the body rejoins the soul. He taught that punishment must be given for sins committed in this body and so the body needs to suffer punishment also. During the period of separation from its soul it is said, the body is in the grave. He argued consistently that God made us to live, and therefore we live eternally even though it is a living death in torment.

What is the fate of the wicked?

The theologian Origen of Alexandria developed another, different view of the fate of the wicked. He postulated that the wicked would be forgiven and restored by God and so in the end all would be saved. There would be universal salvation. Some of his followers believe that even Satan will be saved.

But there was yet another view, that of Irenaeus, who taught that the wicked would be destroyed. All trace of wickedness would be removed from the earth by a devouring fire.

No second chance.

The Bible is clear that our choice, for Him or against Him, is made in this world, here and now. There is no mention of a second chance in the Bible, or a time when all people will be changed and restored to the Lord. This view of universal salvation is also mythology that has crept into the Christian world. It gives a more comfortable picture than judgement and death, but a second chance is false hope. Its origin is in the thinking of Greek philosophy.

In Summary

* There is no ever-burning hell with an eternity of torture.
* There is no such place as purgatory.
* There is no universal restoration of all sinners.

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/origin-of-hell-fire.php#.UW2O1LVORXM

frosbel: No wonder Nigeria is in an abject mess, if these are the calibre of Christians left we are almost doomed, but I know God has reserved a few who have not bowed the knee to baal.

Bidam is a true reflection of all that is wrong with the Nigeria brand of Christianity, seeped deep in biblical malpractices, cannot properly divide the word of God, will not debate with facts, rather chooses blind faith and tradition, dumps reason and logic in favour of irrational beliefs etc.

One in his team, in the same article, talked about demons drinking blood while belonging to a church that spends 90% of their efforts on chasing perceived enemies, including witches, demons, wizards, monsters and all manner of creatures.

Tell me, how can these people who rely on the whims and caprices of men, ever come to a knowledge of the truth?

To start with, which church/assembly/congregation are u identified with? Who is ur role model in this contemporary christian era? Having noticed the 'mess' in christianity in naija, do u have a ministry dat attempt to set things staright? Jesus called the pharisee, 'wolves in sheep clothings'.

true2god: To start with, which church/assembly/congregation are u identified with? Who is ur role model in this contemporary christian era? Having noticed the 'mess' in christianity in naija, do u have a ministry dat attempt to set things staright? Jesus called the pharisee, 'wolves in sheep clothings'.

I belong to the church of God which is his body, not some man made organisation created to fulfill the vision of one MAN.

Just to let you know, Pharisees are those who put burdens on the children of God and make their walk with him greivious.

"Yes," said Jesus, "what sorrow also awaits you experts in religious law! For you crush people with unbearable religious demands, and you never lift a finger to ease the burden." - Luke 11:46

frosbel:

I quote in context posts , regarding the quotation of my posts, speak to the moderators , it's a known issue.

This is what the bible said about people like you :

"Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good," - 2 Timothy 3:3

and what about the first allegation.

Bidam: you are still not getting it are you? i don't have the time for frosbel and is heretic teachings but it's like you have a good HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS THAT IS WHY I AM REPLYING YOU.Nobody is disputing the fact that OUR GOD IS A MERCIFUL, LOVING FATHER.YOU are just picking one part of the scripture and discarding others.This is NOT a pagan derived doctrines BUT REALITIES FOUND IN SCRIPTURES. AM NOT THE ONE SAYING THAT GOD WOULD PUNISH SINNERS BUT IT IS THERE IN THE BIBLE. Have you NOT READ OUR God is a consuming fire, a God of vengeance and wrath? you also go read the bible.it is indeed a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LORD.

It's getting cyclic now. Sure, God will punish the unrepentant wicked along with Satan. Good you mentioned God is a consuming fire. He can't have the wicked consumed as by fire and at the same time keep them alive eternally?

Another look at an oft quoted verse misapplied for eternal torment for the wicked:

Matt 25:41 'Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'.

Clearly, the devil and his demons were the first to be condemned. They are spirit beings so literal fire couldn't have been implied. This becomes glaring when other verses like in Revelation are compared.

Rev.20:14,15 'Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire'.

The fire symbolism becomes clear - death and Hades (Greek for place of the dead, also sometimes translated as hell) are also thrown into same fire the devil is thrown into. Surely neither death, nor grave is a person to be tormented. The meaning is clearly a final removal of the devil, his angels, death, graves. So no more dying thus no more graves, no more Satan. Destroyed completely as if by fire.

All the major pagan religions believe in a place of torment of sorts, and like other pagan-influenced beliefs, some people thought it cool to try to taint Christianity with it.

In the end, we can argue till we are blue in the face but if you don't have the right attitude to reason and think for yourself, then it's all a waste of time. Much better to follow this advice:

Rom 12:2 'Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect'. -New Living Translation (©2007)

Bidam: and why should i? Until you tender an apology for editing, misapplying, misrepresenting and misinterpreting what i said before i obliged you. Infact why should i anyway, i don't give that which is holy to dogs and neither do i cast precious pearls before swines least they trample on them like you are doing to others in this thread and other threads.

See this day light liar.
Keep quite!

You said Resurection has already occured.

What has spiritual death to do with the rich man and lazarus story?

Your character tells alot about you.

The day you cry because someone dies is the day your foolishness will show you how extremely foolish your statement hear is.

Why not die now since it is a good thing for you?

Why do people cry when this good thing you talk about happens since that is not what God wants to remove?

Why did Jesus give way to tears about lazarus death since his friends death was a good thing?

Why did Jesus have to bring him back from heaven to have to suffer and die again?

That there is a spiritual death means there is no literal death abi?

Your misrepresentation of God will be God's place to deal with.

This is the reversal of what happened in eden:

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:2-4)
.........................................
I supposed that ^ is a "spiritual death" to you.

Smh for this your rubbish.

@frosbel,
Thanks for your responses. From your responses it appears you didn't really understand some of my submissions but its ok. We have our different convictions about this issue. And like u said in one of your post here that you stand by your convictions on the judgment day I equally say that I stand by my convictions about this matter too. It is very easy for me to believe what you are teaching since after all the punishment is much lighter than the one I believe but the conviction is not there at all in me. There are some teachings you posted that I got convinced about some part of it and I changed my views but I ve not experienced such on this issue so I stick to my stand. I like the way both of us discussed now. Its not a must that we ll agree but one learns one or two things in such cool discussions than when we are fighting. Am sorry too where I offended u in my reactions the other time and ijawkid. As long as this tempo is maintained am ok with discussing. Whatever stand I take on any issue here is based on my personal convictions and not because of my church that's why I don'like my church to be brought into it. When we want to discuss church we do it sperately. Thanks

FYI