[quote author=frosbel][/quote]I'm not an apostolic faith person but they r one of the few xtain congregation dat stand for truth and holiness. Any organization dat doesnt preach christ as the lord and savior of man frm sins(eg ur Jehova witness wil neva preach this in their watchtower) is not differnt frm mormonism or the grail messangers. The apostolic faith stil maintain a high level christain standard and conducts, both inside and outside the church. Its only the devil and his agents that will say otherwise (which u represent) in order to discourage pple frm serving the true God.

At Frosbel which church do u attend? Your ansa will be 'i dnt belong to any church or follow any MOG but only the bible' and u r here teaching pple to be like u. Its only a fool dat wil follow such.

Guy stop being used by enemies of christ to lead pple astray. Jesus said 'a time will come wen pple dat kills u (the xtains) will think they are doing godly service. Thats exactly wat u r doin on the internet, technically cruficifyin christ for the second time.

Pygru:
So you want to threaten me
You want me to allow you to deceive the Gullible ?
No Way!!!

It's not a name calling exercise , it is a debate, contribute or disappear.

bro frosbel and ijawkid una just ignore my question

frosbel:

How old are you ?

Contribute to this topic or your trolling will be highlighted to the mods.

You and alexo have contributed nothing to this discussion other than slandering , insulting and stalking the pro-lifers in this debate.

Should i take this as your reply to my post to you?

deSika: bro frosbel and ijawkid una just ignore my question

sorry bro, I will respond, let me sort these guys out first

true2god: I'm not an apostolic faith person but they r one of the few xtain congregation dat stand for truth and holiness. Any organization dat doesnt preach christ as the lord and savior of man frm sins(eg ur Jehova witness wil neva preach this in their watchtower) is not differnt frm mormonism or the grail messangers. The apostolic faith stil maintain a high level christain standard and conducts, both inside and outside the church. Its only the devil and his agents that will say otherwise (which u represent) in order to discourage pple frm serving the true God.

At Frosbel which church do u attend? Your ansa will be 'i dnt belong to any church or follow any MOG but only the bible' and u r here teaching pple to be like u. Its only a fool dat wil follow such.

Guy stop being used by enemies of christ to lead pple astray. Jesus said 'a time will come wen pple dat kills u (the xtains) will think they are doing godly service. Thats exactly wat u r doin on the internet, technically cruficifyin christ for the second time.

You have no clue or answer to my question which is why you have responded with a question to my question , this is a rather prideful way of side stepping my question.

Do I not deserve to have my question answered ?

Let me repeat it here , if the wording is difficult for comprehension let me know and I will endeavor to rephrase :

If the dead in Christ are already with Christ, what is the purpose of the resurrection ? Paul says that both the dead in Christ and those who are alive will meet with Jesus and be forever with him at this second coming , not before.

If death is the hope of us Christians, what makes us different from the death cults who kill their members en masse so as to be with their creator in Paradise ?

Is death our hope , or is the resurrection our hope ?

^^^^

Let me give you a hint.


1 Corinthians 15
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

frosbel:

It's not a name calling exercise , it is a debate, contribute or disappear.

Did I use any foul language
...............................................................
This is My Contribution:

[b]Beware of false prophets!
The danger of false prophets is greater today than at any other time in history!
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
Matt. 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, “I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.
And…
Matt. 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

The danger of their message is that they give a false hope to people who then turn from the Word of Life and take the path that leads to destruction.

Ezek. 13:8 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Because you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you,” says the Lord GOD.
Ezek. 13:9 “My hand will be against the prophets who envision futility and who divine lies; they shall not be inthe assembly of My people, nor be written in the record of the house of Israel , nor shall they enter into the land of Israel . Then you shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
Ezek. 13:10 “Because, indeed, because they have seduced Mypeople, saying, ‘Peace!’ when there is no peace—and one builds a wall, and they plaster it with untempered mortar—
Ezek. 13:11 say to those who plaster it with untempered mortar, that it will fall. There will be flooding rain, and you, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall tear it down.
Ezek. 13:12 Surely, when the wall has fallen, will it not be said to you, “Where is the mortar with which you plastered it?’ ”
Ezek. 13:13 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “I will cause a stormy wind to break forth in My fury; and there shall be a flooding rain in My anger, and great hailstones in fury to consume it.
Ezek. 13:14 So I will break down the wall you have plastered with untempered mortar, and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation will be uncovered;it will fall, and you shall be consumed in the midst of it. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezek. 13:15 “Thus will I accomplish My wrath on the wall and on those who have plastered it with untempered mortar; and I will say to you, ‘The wall is no more, nor those who plastered it,
Ezek. 13:16 that is, the prophets of Israel who prophesy concerning Jerusalem , and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,’ ” says the Lord GOD.

Protect yourself

Just as in Ezekiel’s day the only defense against false prophets is to know the true Word of God !
Those who don’t know the word have a weak spiritual immune system and thereby cannot defend themselves against the poison of bad doctrine and false teaching.
You’ll also find that people who don’t know God’s word will become desperate enough in life that they’ll believe anything ~ even a false hope.
Remember, the largest percentage of converts to cults are Christians who didn’tknow God’s Word…

…so beware of false prophets![/b]

frosbel:


You have no clue or answer to my question which is why you have responded with a question to my question , this is a rather prideful way of side stepping my question.

Do I not deserve to have my question answered ?

Let me repeat it here , if the wording is difficult for comprehension let me know and I will endeavor to rephrase :

If the dead in Christ are already with Christ, what is the purpose of the resurrection ? Paul says that both the dead in Christ and those who are alive will meet with Jesus and be forever with him at this second coming , not before.

If death is the hope of us Christians, what makes us different from the death cults who kill their members en masse so as to be with their creator in Paradise ?

Is death our hope , or is the resurrection our hope ?

I had expected u to quote my post in the latter part of the sixth page, but u typically jumped into an unrelating response.

Let me repeat me my response:The genesis account of creation is valid, 'God breath upon a man and he became a living soul' and Paul's prayer to the xtain church 'may God bless ur spirit, soul and body'. Do u believe that man is made up of the spirit, the soul and the body. I will respond to ur question as soon as u ansa my simple question. This is because they r vry related and interlinked to ur question.

Pygru:
Did I use any foul language
...............................................................


Protect yourself

Just as in Ezekiel’s day the only defense against false prophets is to know the true Word of God !
Those who don’t know the word have a weak spiritual immune system and thereby cannot defend themselves against the poison of bad doctrine and false teaching.
You’ll also find that people who don’t know God’s word will become desperate enough in life that they’ll believe anything ~ even a false hope.
Remember, the largest percentage of converts to cults are Christians who didn’tknow God’s Word…

…so beware of false prophets![/b]

But you have resoundingly shown that you do not know the scriptures talk less of how to rightly divide the word of truth.

All you have done is running like a headless chicken , scribbling nonsense all over the place , without making a valid intelligent contribution.

I am asking you to help your brothers provide us with an answer to the question I have been re-posting a few pages away to the current.

true2god: I had expected u to quote my post in the latter part of the sixth page, but u typically jumped into an unrelating response.

Let me repeat me my response:The genesis account of creation is valid, 'God breath upon a man and he became a living soul' and Paul's prayer to the xtain church 'may God bless ur spirit, soul and body'. Do u believe that man is made up of the spirit, the soul and the body. I will respond to ur question as soon as u ansa my simple question. This is because they r vry related and interlinked to ur question.

How are they linked ? This is not an honest response.

I asked you a simple question which seems to have stumped you into silence.

If you are a true teacher or student of the word and think I am a false and deceitful teacher , as you have often stated , the onus is on your to prove otherwise.

Answer my question, don't cower in the face of such a simple task.

true2god: I had expected u to quote my post in the latter part of the sixth page, but u typically jumped into an unrelating response.

Let me repeat me my response:The genesis account of creation is valid, 'God breath upon a man and he became a living soul' and Paul's prayer to the xtain church 'may God bless ur spirit, soul and body'. Do u believe that man is made up of the spirit, the soul and the body. I will respond to ur question as soon as u ansa my simple question. This is because they r vry related and interlinked to ur question.

Succinct

alexleo:

Drop all those emotional displays. Lets face bible. If you are serving God based on condition, i.e. to say that if you agree in eternal torment it means God is wicked and should not be served, then you need to check your christianity. For me, I am not serving God on conditionalities. ETERNAL TORMENT OR NOT, I WILL SERVE GOD. ETERNAL TORMENT OR NOT, GOD IS NEVER WICKED IN MY VIEW. Its just like when i hear some of this penticostals give testimonies that they refused to serve God because they believe they ll be wretched when serving him but when they saw those who are serving him doing well they now accepted Christ. IS THAT THE BEST? TOO BAD. Serving God on conditionalities is NOT IT O MY DEAR. Job said in the scriptures, though he slay me, yet will i trust him. Thats the real serving God. Forget about wicked God emotions and lets talk bible.

Just stating facts, bro. The teaching insults God. It's one of Satan's lies and it finds no support in the Bible. See clear simple Bible truths in the verses I quoted. God gives ample information on true teachings in the Bible. And it's understandable. Because he's a God of love. He didn't need to, but chose to explain things for us.

This teaching of eternal torment falls flat on so many fronts. Why does God need to see the wicked tormented eternally? What purpose does that serve? Does God derive pleasure somewhat from it? Can you answer from the Bible?

The Bible's clear message is that the wages of sin is death (absence of life); but he rewards those faithful to him with eternal life.

Any reference to fire as regards destruction has been shown from the Bible as being symbolic and denotes permanent destruction. The question is, will the stranglehold that traditions have on you let U believe this simple truth?

TroGunn:


Any reference to fire as regards destruction has been shown from the Bible as being symbolic and denotes permanent destruction. The question is, will the stranglehold that traditions have on you let U believe this simple truth?

Could I have said it any better !

frosbel:

But you have resoundingly shown that you do not know the scriptures talk less of how to rightly divide the word of truth.

All you have done is running like a headless chicken , scribbling nonsense all over the place , without making a valid intelligent contribution.

I am asking you to help your brothers provide us with an answer to the question I have been re-posting a few pages away to the current.

Nothing to discuss on your thread Hell exist!!!
Sinners will Burn in hell for eternity !!!
Hebrews 10:31 ►
New International Version (©2011)
It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

frosbel:

But you have resoundingly shown that you do not know the scriptures talk less of how to rightly divide the word of truth.

All you have done is running like a headless chicken , scribbling nonsense all over the place , without making a valid intelligent contribution.

I am asking you to help your brothers provide us with an answer to the question I have been re-posting a few pages away to the current.

Nothing to discuss on your thread

Hell exist!!!
Sinners will Burn in hell forever (eternity) !!!
Hebrews 10:31 ►
New International Version (©2011)
It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Pygru:
Nothing to discuss on your thread Hell exist!!!
Sinners will Burn in hell for eternity !!!
Hebrews 10:31 ►
New International Version (©2011)
It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And what does this mean ?

This time switch on your brain

frosbel:

And what does this mean ?

This time switch on your brain

frosbel!!!
If God could sacrifice his only Son to die on the cross, don't you think there will be a punishment for those who reject the offer of salvation

^^^

God sent his only beloved Son to reconcile us back to him not to punish us.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." - John 3:17

The deep LOVE which is in GOD , for GOD is love , compelled him to devise a plan to bring his special and beloved creation back into fellowship , especially to share his plan for us , designed before the foundation of the world, this plan is eternal life.

The punishment for rejecting Jesus is to be condemned to die for good , or not to share in this plan for mankind, in other words we will perish and never again exist, or as David puts it quite well :

" but the name of a wicked person rots away." - Proverbs 10:7

or

Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

or

Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth; he has no name in the land


The punishment of the wicked which is eternal is DEATH.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die and the wages of sin is death.


Good night !

Pygru:
frosbel!!!
If God could sacrifice his only Son to die on the cross, don't you think there will be a punishment for those who reject the offer of salvation

The Just God gives eternal life to those who believe in his only Son. Those who refuse, he cuts off- "For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it".- Prov 2:21-22.

He does not need to sustain them with life just so he can burn, heal, burn, heal, burn.... them eternally.

frosbel: ^^^

God sent his only beloved Son to reconcile us back to him not to punish us.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." - John 3:17

The deep LOVE which is in GOD , for GOD is love , compelled him to devise a plan to bring his special and beloved creation back into fellowship , especially to share his plan for us , designed before the foundation of the world, this plan is eternal life.

The punishment for rejecting Jesus is to be condemned to die for good , or not to share in this plan for mankind, in other words we will perish and never again exist, or as David puts it quite well :

" but the name of a wicked person rots away." - Proverbs 10:7

or

Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

or

Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth; he has no name in the land


The punishment of the wicked which is eternal is DEATH.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die and the wages of sin is death.


Good night !

@bolded, is that what I said

TroGunn:

The Just God gives eternal life to those who believe in his only Son. Those who refuse, he cuts off- "For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it".- Prov 2:21-22.

He does not need to sustain them with life just so he can burn, heal, burn, heal, burn.... them eternally.

Sinners who fail to repent, will burn in hell forever (eternity)!!!

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." (Genesis 3:19).
......................................................

Befor Adam was brought to life was he existing someWhere else? No.

from that ^, where was Adam befor he was Brought to life = dust.

When Adam dies where will he return to? = dust, a state of no existence.

But satan said Adam will not die, that he will continue living.

Which of this argument on this thread is in support of God and which is in support of satan's claims?

Well, be my guest.

Some people will really have to give themselves the reward of eternal life at the end of the day since they say that God is the liar but that satan had said the truth that man dont return to dust but survives and live on.

Smh.

[b][/b]

TroGunn:

Just stating facts, bro. The teaching insults God. It's one of Satan's lies and it finds no support in the Bible. See clear simple Bible truths in the verses I quoted. God gives ample information on true teachings in the Bible. And it's understandable. Because he's a God of love. He didn't need to, but chose to explain things for us.

This teaching of eternal torment falls flat on so many fronts. Why does God need to see the wicked tormented eternally? What purpose does that serve? Does God derive pleasure somewhat from it? Can you answer from the Bible?

The Bible's clear message is that the wages of sin is death (absence of life); but he rewards those faithful to him with eternal life.

Any reference to fire as regards destruction has been shown from the Bible as being symbolic and denotes permanent destruction. The question is, will the stranglehold that traditions have on you let U believe this simple truth?

Don't you think the same questions can be posed back to you and used to impeach your arguments: Why does God need to see the wicked destroyed? What purpose does that serve? Can't God simply forgive them; after all, he tells us to forgive those who have wronged us? Does God derive pleasure somewhat from destroying sinners? Can you answer from the Bible?

You see, deciding on the question of eternal torment from the perspective of sadism is simply insensible and illogical. Because those who make that point agree that God would destroy the dead one time as punishment. But that meets the definition of sadism. Even mere human beings, much less christians, would be criticized for killing others - especially billions of people. That's why Hitler, Stalin, Mao are villified till today. They did not have to torment anybody eternally for them to be considered evil and sadistic. So, if you think God is no longer a God of love because of eternal torment, then you have to also concede He is not a God of love by killing or destorying people - including people that did Him no direct wrong; only that they rejected His message. And you also have to concede that the God in the Old Testament that helped the Israelites destroy their enemies is not the true God.

Bottomline: some of us may be toying with the danger of rejecting the only true God. I'd urge caution.

^^^^

Quite contradictory if I may add.

First you admit that what Hitler and stain did was horribly evil and go on to infer from your statement, albeit in a subtle way, that God is capable of much worse evil.


Besides, we do not reject the one and true God by believing in a monstrous lie, we reject him when we reject his Son who was sent to die for out sins. .

^^

I'm surprised you couldn't lift a finger to defend the charge of sadism you've made in countless posts around here. The simple question for you is: if you believe God would do what Hitler & Co. did, can you still justify your stance against eternal torment on the basis that it contraditcts the nature of a loving God to punish people eternally? In simpler terms, is it loving of God to destroy people one time as punishment?

If you can't defend that, then you need to quit deceiving yourself that you're arguing for a loving God and using that as a cudgel to attack others for presenting God as a sadist. Neither one time destruction nor everlasting punishment shows love. [And btw, it is irrelevant whether one is worse than the other].

But you know what? God has a side that is not about love, as we human beings define it. He is also a God of Justice; a consuming fire.

Of course, if you create a false image of God, to suit whatever interest you may have (love, etc), you can't be sure you're still describing the same God. That's the same thing as rejecting Him. If I insist you're a Caucasian female and truly beleive it, do you think I'll receive you as you when you knock on my door and appear as a black man?

alexleo:

ok so he(ijawkid) is truly Jehova witness? Am thru with arguing with him here. Arguing with him is not what he needs as far as am concerned. Hmmm....and frosbel married him as if both of them are viewing the scriptures from the same platform? You see what i dislike? Not being able to seperate yourself from people who are not on the same platform with you and riding along with them just because they are saying things that suits your message. Now here is my stand, when am arguing scriptures with someone i feel am on the same platform with scriptural, if an atheists comes and makes statement that will support my stand i wouldnt like to bring in what he has said in our discussion/argument as part of scoring a point. NO. For me, the first thing he needs is to be saved and be on the same platform with us before i support him or even support his quote. But here we have people who are ready to agree with anything from anybody provided it drives their message. Thats a desperate act which raises suspicion about the message you are delivering. we really need to be careful here. May God help us.

Lol.......alex.......I can't remember when last on this thread you made any meaningful ,scriptural comment as regards this topic..............

Face topic bro.........at least before you leave this thread you would have a re-think as to your stance........

And Yes I am JW.................

true2god: I'm not an apostolic faith person but they r one of the few xtain congregation dat stand for truth and holiness. Any organization dat doesnt preach christ as the lord and savior of man frm sins(eg ur Jehova witness wil neva preach this in their watchtower) is not differnt frm mormonism or the grail messangers. The apostolic faith stil maintain a high level christain standard and conducts, both inside and outside the church. Its only the devil and his agents that will say otherwise (which u represent) in order to discourage pple frm serving the true God.

At Frosbel which church do u attend? Your ansa will be 'i dnt belong to any church or follow any MOG but only the bible' and u r here teaching pple to be like u. Its only a fool dat wil follow such.

Guy stop being used by enemies of christ to lead pple astray. Jesus said 'a time will come wen pple dat kills u (the xtains) will think they are doing godly service. Thats exactly wat u r doin on the internet, technically cruficifyin christ for the second time.

The bolded is unfounded.....d.o you even kÑow who the Jehovahs Witnesses are or you just want to be childish??.........

Can you please take back the LIE I bolded??................

Pygru:
frosbel!!!
If God could sacrifice his only Son to die on the cross, don't you think there will be a punishment for those who reject the offer of salvation

I never knew Jesus died.................

Pygru:
Sinners who fail to repent, will burn in hell forever (eternity)!!!

then ask your confused self where adam is.....is adam and eve burning in hell fire??..........

nlMediator: ^^

I'm surprised you couldn't lift a finger to defend the charge of sadism you've made in countless posts around here. The simple question for you is: if you believe God would do what Hitler & Co. did, can you still justify your stance against eternal torment on the basis that it contraditcts the nature of a loving God to punish people eternally? In simpler terms, is it loving of God to destroy people one time as punishment?

If you can't defend that, then you need to quit deceiving yourself that you're arguing for a loving God and using that as a cudgel to attack others for presenting God as a sadist. Neither one time destruction nor everlasting punishment shows love. [And btw, it is irrelevant whether one is worse than the other].

But you know what? God has a side that is not about love, as we human beings define it. He is also a God of Justice; a consuming fire.

Of course, if you create a false image of God, to suit whatever interest you may have (love, etc), you can't be sure you're still describing the same God. That's the same thing as rejecting Him. If I insist you're a Caucasian female and truly beleive it, do you think I'll receive you as you when you knock on my door and appear as a black man?

The hell fire showing God as a sadist is just one aspect of the falsehood of the teaching of literal eternal torment........the main reason for being against the teaching of hell fire is because the scriptures do not support it..................

Chikena!!!!!!!!...........

People would not keep burning(literally) forever.......scriptures do not teach that.......

ijawkid:

The bolded is unfounded.....d.o you even kÑow who the Jehovahs Witnesses are or you just want to be childish??.........

Can you please take back the LIE I bolded??................

My friend i understand at least 95% of JW doctrines and tricks, i knw wat im saying. I have been dealin with dem for so many yrs and on few occasions attended the kingdom hall. Its convenient for JW to condemn the apostolic faith, assembies of God church, CAC, RCCG, deeperlife (even where JW are blatantly lying) but they cant condemn the teachings of the church of the latter-day saints, eckancker, the grail messangers. The reason is that they belong to the same false xtains org, so y condemn dem.

Ok since christ teachings on hell fire is not literal (only according to JW), dnt u tink his teachings on heaven and paradise are not literal as well? Since there is not eternal punishment (according to Jw), dnt u think ther is no eternal presence of the righteaous with God? Is it that u choose is convenient for u?