londoner:

I am not of the same opinion with you that the owner must have stolen their money from the state or through corruption.....I just don't believe that automatically, especially with no info on the individual whatsoever.

So why did you believe automatically the civil servant might have stolen the money?

Sagamite:

Why was your assumption not "innocent until proven otherwise"?

Because it is a civil servant and my assumption is that a civil servant can not be paid that amount for his job. Or can they be? Even so, it is very possible for a person to have inherited etc....so I would be wrong in my assumption would I not?

Okay, so lets use you example........do you know whether the owner of the Bugatti inherited money or is a property guru?

Sagamite:

So why did you believe automatically the civil servant might have stolen the money?

Because he would not have earned it through his wages, would he?

Why did you assume the owner of the Bugatti did not inherit money cleanly or is a property mogul?

Sagamite....no amount of to-ing or throwing will change my stance. No manner of fictional scenarios you come up with will make me accuse the owner of the car of being a thief or someone who stole from the government.
Simply because he owns a Bugatti.

londoner:

Because it is a civil servant and my assumption is that a civil servant can not be paid that amount for his job. Or can they be? Even so, it is very possible for a person to have inherited etc....so I would be wrong in my assumption would I not?

Okay, so lets use you example........do you know whether the owner of the Bugatti inherited money or is a property guru?

So you judged the civil servants on the odds of a civil servant having such an amount, not as an individual?

But you refuse to judge the anonymous person on the odds of being one of the majority corrupt super-rich in Nigeria, you insist that that case must be based on the individual?

londoner:


So, why may I ask,can't this individual be one of the very few you speak of who can afford the car with clean money?

. Most people who make clean money do not spend it like that. You are not likely to see a man who worked very hard for his money spend it on a $2.2M bugatti veyron. You are likely however to see a man who got rich by embezzling or other shady deals spend it on that. The car is more like a celebrity toy meant to show off. It's highly unlikely to see a sucessful clean Nigerian entrepreneur spend money like that.

londoner:

Because he would not have earned it through his wages, would he?

Sagamite....no amount of to-ing or throwing will change my stance. No manner of fictional scenarios you come up with will make me accuse the owner of the car of being a thief or someone who stole from the government.
Simply because he owns a Bugatti.

And who told you majority of professional civil servants in Nigeria don't have side investments?

What proportion of the super-rich (that can afford a Bugatti) in Nigeria do you think got their money legally?

Donxavier: . Most people who make clean money do not spend it like that. You are not likely to see a man who worked very hard for his money spend it on a $2.2M bugatti veyron. You are likely however to see a man who got rich by embezzling or other shady deals spend it on that. The car is more like a celebrity toy meant to show off. It's highly unlikely to see a sucessful clean Nigerian entrepreneur spend money like that.

Well said!

A Nigerian entrepreneur that worked hard and faced the rough terrains and uncertainty of the Nigerian tough business environment is unlikely to throw the money away because he knows tomorrow might not be that good. The Nigerian honest business industry is far less certain than the corruption industry. If you make it honestly in Nigeria, you would be more cautious with your money.

Sagamite:

And who told you majority of professional civil servants in Nigeria don't have side investments?

You still didn't answer my question.

How come you didn't assume the owner of the Bugatti was a property mogul or inherited clean money, Since you say that would be an acceptable scenario? That bis the assumption that you made. Not of a fictional civil servant, but an actual individual.

All you saw was the car and you started accusing a person you don't even know of being a thief.

londoner:



You still didn't answer my question.

How come you didn't assume the owner of the Bugatti was a property mogul or inherited clean money, Since you say that would be an acceptable scenario? That bis the assumption that you made. Not of a fictional civil servant, but an actual individual.

All you saw was the car and you started accusing a person you don't even know of being a thief.

You are the one not answering my question, my friend.

Why would I assume the owner inherited it? Am I the one insisting on looking at judging based on individuals? You have got your arguments muddled up?

Let me clarify for you:

- I have applied a consistent approach. Judging based on odds.

- You have applied an inconsistent approach. Sometimes you judge on odds, others on individual.

You should be answering my questions to clarify your inconsistent approach.

Sagamite:

And who told you majority of professional civil servants in Nigeria don't have side investments?

What proportion of the super-rich (that can afford a Bugatti) in Nigeria do you think got their money legally?

You called ONE owner a thief.......for me it is not about proportions or generalities. It is about an accusation you made of the individual without a basis.

You don't know whether or not he makes his money cleanly....but you already called him a thief.

Sagamite:

You are the one not answering my question, my friend.

Why would I assume the owner inherited it? Am I the one insisting on looking at judging based on individuals? You have got your arguments muddled up?

Why do you find it easier to assume he is a thief.

I ask you again......who is the owner of the car and how does he make his money?

If you don't know then how can you assume he is a thief?

londoner:



You called ONE owner a thief.......for me it is not about proportions or generalities. It is about an accusation you made of the individual without a basis.

You don't know whether or not he makes his money cleanly....but you already called him a thief.

londoner:

Why do you find it easier to assume he is a thief.

I ask you again......who is the owner of the car and how does he make his money?

If you don't know then how can you assume he is a thief?

The basis there is that a vast majority of Nigeria's super-rich (the class that can afford a Bugatti) are not entrepreneurial geniuses, they are crooks, so I judge the odds this owner is a crook is high until I am proven otherwise.

Just like the vast majority of Nigeria's civil servants are corrupt, so I judge the odds any having £400m or even £400K in his account is a crook until I am proven otherwise.

You want to apply individual assessment and odds as it pleases you. I just apply odds!

Much ado about a Bugatti.Whoever would have thot that spotting a bugatti would generate this much controversy/debate between Sagamite and Londoner.

You're just going to have to get over the fact that I wont assume the owner is a thief.......no matter how you go on and on.

If this guy made his money cleanly then long may it continue and I wish the same for many more Nigerians.

It is better to do that than to encourage people to think they only have a bugatti if they are thieves and corrupt.

It is rather the belief that the only way to riches is through dishonesty that is killing Nigerians. I pity people who think like that.

The small number who make enough money to buy a bugatti, whether they buy one or not exist too.

sandysprax: Much ado about a Bugatti.Whoever would have thot that spotting a bugatti would generate this much controversy/debate between Sagamite and Londoner.

Its not controversy....Sagamite is just annoyed that I have my own view and will not change it to suit or support his that's all.

I know of corrupt Nigerians, but I know honest ones too............who are making money, even if they are not rich.

I will never assume that every single rich Nigerians is a criminal. The ones who are honest (no matter how small) are a testimony against that belief.

Even if you are going to apply your "odds" and deem a man a criminal, at least acknowledge the possibility that this individual may be one of the honest few. He could even be an importer of exotic cars for all we know.......

londoner: You're just going to have to get over the fact that I wont assume the owner is a thief.......no matter how you go on and on.

If this guy made his money cleanly then long may it continue and I wish the same for many more Nigerians.

It is better to do that than to encourage people to think they only have a bugatti if they are thieves and corrupt.

It is rather the belief that the only way to riches is through dishonesty that is killing Nigerians. I see that is your own belief......well I pity people who think like that.

The small number who make enough money to buy a bugatti, whether they buy one or not exist too.

. I'm sorry but I have to ask, Have you lived in Nigeria before? In a way I share your sentiments. You are the positivity type and it's always better to look at the glass and say it's half full rather than half empty. But the reality is so different. So so different. The odds are pretty low to become a very successful businessman or be very rich, rich to the extent of affording a bugatti in Nigeria without some kind of Government/Political influence. And once you dabble into that it's corruption. I am saying it again it's very very very few that become extremely rich in Nigeria in a clean way. Most very rich people in Nigeria won't stand if a proper scrutiny is done on the source of funds. This is not to discourage anybody from working hard and believing in Nigeria. This is not to say Nigeria is doomed. But as things are Now, what I said is the real picture of what goes on here.

Donxavier: . I'm sorry but I have to ask, Have you lived in Nigeria before? In a way I share your sentiments. You are the positivity type and it's always better to look at the glass and say it's half full rather than half empty. But the reality is so different. So so different. The odds are pretty low to become a very successful businessman or be very rich, rich to the extent of affording a bugatti in Nigeria without some kind of Government/Political influence. And once you dabble into that it's corruption. I am saying it again it's very very very few that become extremely rich in Nigeria in a clean way. Most very rich people in Nigeria won't stand if a proper scrutiny is done on the source of funds. This is not to discourage anybody from working hard and believing in Nigeria. This is not to say Nigeria is doomed. But as things are Now, what I said is the real picture of what goes on here.

Well......the point is, we don't know who the owner is and whether he is one of the "very very very few" honest ones, or even if he imports luxury cars as his business (as Okocha now does) or any other information needed to accuse an individual of being a thief.

At the end of the day, everybody has an opinion and I don't have to relinquish my view. It is my view and I have a right to it. It still stands.....none of us here know what this individual does and how he comes about his money.

Therefore we can not say with any certainty whether he is a thief or not. I am not going to assume he is, just because he owns this car. Neither am I saying that the glass is half empty or half full.....I am simply saying I am not going to call the owner a thief when I don't know how he gets his money, clean or otherwise.

I have not been talking in generalities.........I have been talking about an individual instance and that is why I refuse to automatically call someone a thief. Because I don't know who owns it or what he does.

And no-one else should get hot under the collar because of my opinion.

@OP, you are sooooo funny. Many people can buy any type of car in nigeria.

National assembly members can buy it, top civil servants can buy it and before I forget " subsidy money" people can buy better cars and a lot of other people.

Funny thread.

Anybody reading Sagamite's posts can easily deduce that he has lives a sad and depressed life.
Nigga has anything good happened to you in your life?
Someone bought a buggati and you're calling him a thief...

Do you know how many Nigerian footballers are out there?
Do you know how much they get paid?

Do you even know who is driving the car?
Nigga shut up and work for your own,and let people snap you too!

Haters always gon' hate.

cheddarking: Anybody reading Sagamite's posts can easily deduce that he has lives a sad and depressed life.
Nigga has anything good happened to you in your life?
Someone bought a buggati and you're calling him a thief...

Do you know how many Nigerian footballers are out there?
Do you know how much they get paid?

Do you even know who is driving the car?
Nigga shut up and work for your own,and let people snap you too!

Haters always gon' hate.

You're kind-of daft. No footballer with common sense would buy a BV a domicile it in Nigeria where the roads are horrible, security is non-existent and few people appreciate it! They would most likely keep it where ever it is they play so they can show it up to their club mates. Nigerians are just fools. They absolutely deserve their idiot, thieving leaders. The entire world looks at Nigeria and laughs but the daft Nigerians think they are accomplishing something and calling themselves the giants of a cesspit.

braveheart2012:

You're kind-of daft. No footballer with common sense would buy a BV a domicile it in Nigeria where the roads are horrible, security is non-existent and few people appreciate it! They would most likely keep it where ever it is they play so they can show it up to their club mates. Nigerians are just fools. They absolutely deserve their idiot, thieving leaders. The entire world looks at Nigeria and laughs but the daft Nigerians think they are accomplishing something and calling themselves the giants of a cesspit.

Nigerians and their poverty mentality sha...
Whoever bought that car is obviously someone rich enough to fix it if it gets damaged.
Do bugatti have a garage in Nigeria? or you think your mechanic brothers can fix it?

The wisdom of the rich can never be understood by paupers

The bugatti is a LUXURY designed for the RICH not for the bravehearts and sagamites of this world.


Stick to riding your okada sir and work for your own!

Haters always gon' hate!

Whoever said that car is not in nigeria needs to be spanked...wot is 200m?? Small boys that are either in their late twenties or early thirties buy houses worth hundreds of millions,I knw people that use the phantoms,mercedes s550 as regular car.there is one guy..by name mark..dude stays on road 54 in vgc...he parks his latest model phantom ghost with plate number mark 04 carelessly on the streets in vgc.

Moreover,I saw a bugatti late last year in warri...it was owned by a guy named ayiri...dude owns d 911 resort.he even has dat car kim bought for kanye...the guy is a car freak..don't knw what he does for a living but dude is stupendously rich..

Whoever said that car is not in nigeria needs to be spanked...wot is 200m?? Small boys that are either in their late twenties or early thirties buy houses worth hundreds of millions,I knw people that use the phantoms,mercedes s550 as regular car.there is one guy..by name mark..dude stays on road 54 in vgc...he parks his latest model phantom ghost with plate number mark 04 carelessly on the streets in vgc.

Moreover,I saw a bugatti late last year in warri...it was owned by a guy named ayiri...dude owns d 911 resort.he even has dat car kim bought for kanye...the guy is a car freak..don't knw what he does for a living but dude is stupendously rich..

ayox2003:


I dont think you know how much Nigerians spend on cars. Ask Porsche how many cars they have sold on the Island alone. I was recently at wedding and the Groom was presented with keys to Roll Royce Phantom 2012. Later heard that his father bought two. His father is among the subsidy cabal sha.
I dont doubt this pix at all.

Frawzey

Was @ d wedding..His Broda nt his father..The couple were given a new car(Not a RollsRoyce)but were. Also give a mansion..Dou d Man has 2 rollsRoyce in his Garage at a Very young age

sandysprax: @Londoner,

Well done bro, I've never seen any man as honest as u are on here. Atleast all ur posts suggest that.Other pple living outside the shores of 9ja will try to defend themselves when in reality they are not finding things easy. I am studying here in London and from what I am seeing here, I am not thinking twice about coming back after my studies.

Just today in the market place, a man sweating srsly and looking distressed approached me and started asking if i was a Nigerian and that i should buy him even if it is chips or give him ordinary garri that he has not eaten since morning.On my way home, I met him on the bus with another man and he was telling the man in Ibo lang tht "This place is rubbish". #TrueStory

thats what happen when you stay in peckham

chumafresh: Was @ d wedding..His Broda nt his father..The couple were given a new car(Not a RollsRoyce)but were. Also give a mansion..Dou d Man has 2 rollsRoyce in his Garage at a Very young age

Sorry but do you know him or how do you know the wedding he's talking about. Just curious

londoner: You're just going to have to get over the fact that I wont assume the owner is a thief.......no matter how you go on and on.

If this guy made his money cleanly then long may it continue and I wish the same for many more Nigerians.

It is better to do that than to encourage people to think they only have a bugatti if they are thieves and corrupt.

It is rather the belief that the only way to riches is through dishonesty that is killing Nigerians. I pity people who think like that.

The small number who make enough money to buy a bugatti, whether they buy one or not exist too.

Let me change your inconsistent statement for you to give you some clarity:

You're just going to have to get over the fact that I wont assume the civil servant is a thief.......no matter how you go on and on.

If this guy made his money cleanly then long may it continue and I wish the same for many more Nigerians.

It is better to do that than to encourage people to think they only have millions of pounds if they are thieves and corrupt.

It is rather the belief that the only way to riches is through dishonesty that is killing Nigerians. I pity people who think like that.

The small number who make enough money outside their salaries, whether they are million pounds rich or not exist too.

londoner:

Its not controversy....Sagamite is just annoyed that I have my own view and will not change it to suit or support his that's all.

I know of corrupt Nigerians, but I know honest ones too............who are making money, even if they are not rich.

I will never assume that every single rich Nigerians is a criminal. The ones who are honest (no matter how small) are a testimony against that belief.

Even if you are going to apply your "odds" and deem a man a criminal, at least acknowledge the possibility that this individual may be one of the honest few. He could even be an importer of exotic cars for all we know.......

No, I am annoyed at your moral pompousity and the lack of willingness to apply sensibility to your opinion.

If I had told you that the civil servant that has £400m in his account is a UK or US civil servant, I am fcking sure you would have not thought it was ill-gotten wealth because the odds are low in the UK/US. You would have said innocent until proven guilty. In Nigeria, you will think otherwise. People like Cameron are worth over £40m. Tony Blair is worth over £20m after a stint as Prime Minister.

So you used odds for one approach and change it to individuals at another at your whim, and you want me to respect that?

londoner:

Well......the point is, we don't know who the owner is and whether he is one of the "very very very few" honest ones, or even if he imports luxury cars as his business (as Okocha now does) or any other information needed to accuse an individual of being a thief.

At the end of the day, everybody has an opinion and I don't have to relinquish my view. It is my view and I have a right to it. It still stands.....none of us here know what this individual does and how he comes about his money.

Therefore we can not say with any certainty whether he is a thief or not. I am not going to assume he is, just because he owns this car. Neither am I saying that the glass is half empty or half full.....I am simply saying I am not going to call the owner a thief when I don't know how he gets his money, clean or otherwise.

I have not been talking in generalities.........I have been talking about an individual instance and that is why I refuse to automatically call someone a thief. Because I don't know who owns it or what he does.

And no-one else should get hot under the collar because of my opinion.

The sensible thing in the Nigerian context when we don't know who the owner is is that we should assume it is a crook because the odds are it is ill-gotten wealth. Just like you sensibly assumed the a rich civil servant in a corrupt country was a crook without knowing his other backgrounds.

When we know who the owner is, then we can judge based on individuals.

If someone tells me "Oh, that is Don Jazzy's car" then I would stop thinking it is a crook.

If someone tells me "Oh, that is Okocha's car" then I would stop thinking it is a crook.

If someone tells me "Oh, that is the car of the owner of X university" then I would stop thinking it is a crook.

If someone tells me "Oh, that is Ben Bruce's car" then I would stop thinking it is a crook.

If someone tells me "Oh, that is Bayo Ogunlesi's car" then I would stop thinking it is a crook.

If someone tells me "Oh, that is Ladi Balogun's car" then I would stop thinking it is a crook.

Lets be sensible in our analysis.

cheddarking: Anybody reading Sagamite's posts can easily deduce that he has lives a sad and depressed life.
Nigga has anything good happened to you in your life?
Someone bought a buggati and you're calling him a thief...

Do you know how many Nigerian footballers are out there?
Do you know how much they get paid?

Do you even know who is driving the car?
Nigga shut up and work for your own,and let people snap you too!

Haters always gon' hate.

You are a person!

Bloody fa[i][/i]ot.

Your life can never be half as good as my own.

I am being altruistic and helping you fight those that are destroying your miserable life and you are not grateful.

wat is the big deal..nigerians buy mobile fone worth 500k so wat is big price infront big thieves .nigerians and senseless spendin

Sagamite:

For the first time, I am reading your post and I have an opinion you are a child in your teens. I used to think you were a lady in her 20s or early 30s.

You need to pack your bags and visit Nigeria more or even work and live their for a while.

First of all, when I mentioned pension, it is not a request for you to lecture me on how pensions are paid. It was to make you aware that such a simple and moral ENTITLEMENT is one thing people struggle to get in Nigeria and those looting it (FROM OLD DEFENSELESS PEOPLE) have a tendency to use the loot to live extravagant lives. They loot from the weak of society, to live a life they don't need or deserve just to feel like "big boys". So I mentioned it to show you that you that does not need to worry about such basic entitlements can have the luxury to be lackadaisical about someone driving a car in Nigeria that cost over $1m and $300K to service every year while 1 in 5 children die before the age of 5 due to corruption.

Secondly, if you follow my advice to visit Nigeria more, you will never say Nigeria society is one that believes in capitalism. Nigeria believes in corruptism and nepotism. Capitalism denotes the concept of free markets. Nigeria hardly has free markets in the main sectors.

@Sagamite.
Actually I've never really agreed with most of your posts. But this time, I kinda do.
Applying the standard rules of innocent until proven guilty in this case is not entirely justified. Given the situations on ground in Nigeria, one is more apt to assume guilty until innocent.
Only a little investigation needs to be done. The blog from which that picture comes has a lot more luxury cars from Ferraris to Jaguars, all in Abuja. I think there's a clique that uses this for street drag racing. During these racing episodes, some of the cars are heavily bashed and there are pictures there as well to show it. The only conclusion one comes to, is that these racers have these cars only for show purposes and as far as I can tell wouldn't be able to afford such extravagance if the money was hard-earned.

sauer:
@Sagamite.
Actually I've never really agreed with most of your posts. But this time, I kinda do.
Applying the standard rules of innocent until proven guilty in this case is not entirely justified. Given the situations on ground in Nigeria, one is more apt to assume guilty until innocent.
Only a little investigation needs to be done. The blog from which that picture comes has a lot more luxury cars from Ferraris to Jaguars, all in Abuja. I think there's a clique that uses this for street drag racing. During these racing episodes, some of the cars are heavily bashed and there are pictures there as well to show it. The only conclusion one comes to, is that these racers have these cars only for show purposes and as far as I can tell wouldn't be able to afford such extravagance if the money was hard-earned.

You don't need to agree with most of my post, frankly it is imperative you agree with all of my post because you will never come across more intellectual thinking.

And surely you want to align your thinking to supreme intellect as it is good for your reputation.

What is wrong with these people ? The thread talks about Bugatti Veyron in Abuja, and you people are discussing about people's source of funds. By the way, its not just one, once in a while, you see Buggati, MayBach and I saw 2 Ferrari packed in one man's compound in VI. When did you people become investigators to question people's source of funds. If you get opportunity, will you not use the fast lane. Stop hating, poverty is a curse.