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Stats: 1216912 members, 1597251 topics. Date: Monday, 10 March 2014 at 08:13 PM
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 6:27am On Mar 07|
you don't have to goad me. the answer was quite obvious: I would believe it because the Qur'an states it.
if you have a point to make just make it.
but keep it short and to the point.
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 8:10am On Mar 05|
no, I wouldn't.
|Jokes Etc / Re: Whats The Missing Name? by F00028: 4:20pm On Mar 02|
|Family / Re: » Men 'live Longer' If They Marry A Younger Woman by F00028: 3:14pm On Mar 02|
good. am going to get me two.
|Nairaland / General / Re: How To Make People Like You. 6 Simple Steps by F00028: 9:26am On Mar 02|
temitayoadegoke:how can it be sincere when you don't really care you just want to lull them?
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 1:02am On Mar 02|
oh boy, I bow for you o!
you have misdirection down to a science.
well wait no more. my response is: I SURE WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU TRY!
( I have already my point that the biblical Jesus was not willing to die for nobody.)
for this to qualify as the independent corroborative source you so desperately crave, he must not be merely repeating what christians were saying.
though he was said to have had access to the roman imperial records ( your independent source) but its doubtful he got the information there.
- he refers to pilate by the wrong title. pilate was a prefect, not a procurator;
-he also refers to Jesus by the religious title "christos". roman records would not have referred to Jesus by a christian title
most likely he was just repeating
but Walter R. Cassels would. author of "Supernatural Religion," one of the greatest works ever written on the origins of Christianity and he says:
"After having exhausted the literature and the testimony bearing on the point, we have not found a single distinct trace of any of those Gospels during the first century and a half after the death of Christ."
for clarity sake, how do you propose I do that?
you don't say?!
I am a Muslim...what now?
I contended as far as the biblical Jesus knew he wasn't here to die for any original sin, took steps to ensure his personal safety, he was not willing to die, didn't view crucifixion favourably and took steps to escape.
and I relied on the following:
... and he was alsomilitant-
shouldn't you prove he was crucified first?
if you dont know what language your lord and saviour spoke then you're the most unserious student of the bible I've ever come across.
cloudstar: Since you have ignored my request to address certain questions I asked you, I will state the following...
if you insist
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 10:52am On Mar 01|
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 10:48am On Mar 01|
it always puzzles me why josephus is such sore topic for you guys.
Flavius Josephus was not even a christian yet you guys like to insists his non-biblical source is supposed to be some strong confirmation of key elements of your crucifixion story.
T.W. Doane, Bible Myths and their Parallels in other Religions, p. 516:
... there exists, outside of the New Testament, no evidence whatever, in book,
inscription, or monument, that Jesus of Nazareth was either scourged or crucified
under Pontius Pilate. Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny, Philo, nor any of their contemporaries, ever refer to the fact of this crucifixion, or express any belief thereon.
Lloyd Graham, Deceptions and Myths of the Bible, p. 343:
In the nineteenth century an eminent scholar, Rabbi Wise, searched the records of Pilate’s court, still extant, for evidence of this trial. HE FOUND NOTHING.
There is no verification of a significant
crucifixion in the writings of historians such
as Philo, Tacitus, Pliny, Suetonius, Epictectus,
Cluvius Rufus, Quintus, Curtis Rufus,
Josephus, nor the Roman Consul, Publius
Petronius. The crucifixion also was
unknown to early Christians until as late
as the Second Century.
need I remind you my initial contention was based strictly on BIBLE VERSES ?
cloudstar:PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR WHAT?!
you claim Jesus Christ was crucified for the 'sins of world' and you can't prove it so you want to shift the burden of proof to me to show what really happened. really? that's how it works??
you stay safe too..but keep your eyes open.
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 7:30am On Feb 28|
I only brought up josephus because you said:
cloudstar:I really shouldn't have.
-corroboration or lack of, of the biblical narrative had nothing to do with my contention.
I don't how I missed that! I guess you just too sneaky.
fact of the matter is that from the bible we find:
a Jesus who came to preach not die-
Jesus replied, "Let us go somewhere else—to the nearby villages—so I CAN PREACH there also. THAT IS WHY I HAVE COME."
But he said, "I MUST PREACH the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because THAT IS WHY I WAS SENT."
a Jesus who was afraid for his personal safety-
After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for
HE WOULD NOT WALK IN JEWRY BECAUSE THE JEWS SOUGHT TO KILL HIM.
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but
JESUS HID HEMSELF, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
JESUS THEREFORE WALKED NO MORE OPENLY AMONG THE JEWS; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.
a Jesus who wasn't going to go quietly-
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SWORD, SELL YOUR CLOAK AND BUY ONE.”
***we already know he can be militant-
a Jesus who didn't want to die-
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O MY FATHER, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, LET THIS CUP PASS FROM ME nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
(Matthew 26:39, Luke 22:42)
and finally, those famous words: MY LORD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?
even if he was reciting old scripture as you say, it still is a curious choice.
to rebutt all that you would have to expunge those verses and from the bible
PS- if we are going to go strictly by the those historical sources you keep yapping about you'll have a hard time proving the biblical Jesus even existed, and you can NEVER prove that he was CRUCIFIED for any original sin.
word of advice, stick to your bible.
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 8:04pm On Feb 27|
cloudstar:nice to see you still have a sense a humour.
cloudstar:I think the problem actually was, I refused to let you forcefully structure the debate the only way you knew how.
I contended that the bible, not any other book, but the bible ( B I B L E) looked at more closely paints a different picture of Jesus. quite different from the gentle lamb led willingly to slaughter as christians would have people believe.
but you went off about the Qur'an, external sources within the first 100 years, how long it took to compile sahih bukhari, blah blah blah..
what did that have to to with the behaviour of Jesus, based entirely on biblical verses that I was referring to?
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 10:26am On Feb 27|
@cloudstar, you may want to try this:
the challenge is to take all accounts of the resurrection in:
1- the four gospels,
2- Acts, and
3- 1 Corinthians 15,
and write a single narrative in which includes every event and detail mentioned in the separate accounts and do so without omitting anything or injecting inconsistency, contradiction, or purely speculative materials into the narrative.
|Ethnic, Racial, Or Sectarian Politics / Re: A Black African Girl Being Exhibited In A Belgium Zoo Back In 1958 by F00028: 10:09am On Feb 27|
one reason: social darwinism!
|Nairaland / General / Re: Why Are 'strictly By Invitation" Events Advertised On Tv? by F00028: 10:05am On Feb 27|
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 12:19am On Feb 27|
we are going in circles because that is how you like it.
he changed it at this point: Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers... john 18:3
before then he was preparing for a showdown. Luke 22:36: and let him who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.
thats because it had become futile. don't forget why peter was carrying the sword in the first place.
cloudstar:what has the Qur'an got to do with anything. I dont believe I proposed you dump your Jesus for a Qur'anic one, have I?
what I gave been saying from the get go was:
I dont believe I have quoted a single Qur'anic verse!
your primary sources of the NT are in greek.
really, do you not know these things?
cloudstar:no cloudstar, am not the slightest bit worried by your desperate attempt at misdirection. a red herring if you will.
maybe that's why choose the font colour
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 6:13pm On Feb 26|
cloudstar:then you still have a problem because that same source paints a picture of a man that didn't want to die and tried as best as he could to avoid it. hence Mathew 27:46
cloudstar:you really need to read your bible and reflect...all of it and not just the part you want to believe:
Jesus only changed his mind about an armed
confrontation because when the jews finally
caught up with them he saw they also
brought along roman soldiers...resistance
then would have been futile. (see john 18:3)
simple: the man had two choices: make a stand or run. and according to your bible, he chose the former and unfortunately it turned out to be futile.
cloudstar:you are crying wolf here.
your version of Jesus perhaps but no Muslim, properly so called, will ever deny a historical Jesus?
the Muslim position is simple, Jesus Christ, the son of Mary was not killed/crucified.
the fact that there were crucifixions and the identity of the victims is immaterial- Jesus Christ was never one of them!
cloudstar:for your version of Jesus, it obviously was
cloudstar:before we go much further , why greek? Jesus Christ wasn't greek, didn't speak, the people to whom he came weren't Greek.
dont try to change the topic.
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 9:59pm On Feb 25|
then why all the drama? the evasive tactics, the appeal to his follower to sell their clothes to buy weapons, the retreat to gethsemene, the two tier security posts, the earnest appeal to God to save him- if he knew that was what he was here for all along?
(curiously, if you read the bible you would find that for someone who was supposedly here to die a violent death, Jesus actually valued his personal safety e.g. John 7:1, John 8:59, John 11:54)
and if he really was crucified why like he knew he was here for why would he view it as an abandonment? (Matthew 27:46)
his last words should have been: 'hallelujah'.
-The primary non-biblical resource concerning Israel at that time is Josephus. Josephus was born in 37 AD, a few years after Jesus' death, and wrote Antiquities of the Jews in the 90s. But Josephus is of dubious reliability. During the Jewish revolts against Rome in 66 AD, he switched sides to join the Romans, sucking up shamelessly to his new Roman patrons. By the standards of his day, Josephus was a good historian, but he was also a sycophant, flattering Roman generals and politicians at the expense of historical accuracy.
Another problem is that we have no originals of Josephus' work. We have copies preserved (and edited) by Christian scribes. Thus, passages in Josephus proclaiming that Jesus "was the Messiah" who "taught the truth" and was "restored to life" after his death are viewed by almost all scholars as later edits. Josephus never converted to Christianity and would not have described Jesus in that way. Barring some miraculous future discovery (similar to the Dead Sea Scrolls), we will never know what Josephus really wrote.
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 9:36am On Feb 25|
you remind me of mr. anony
look, if you must have a testimony of faith from me in the gospels before we continue then we might as well just stop here.
but my contention still stands: if you read the bible it certainly doesn't look like he knew he was where to die or even wanted to die for anybody.
and I assume you believe the bible... every word
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 6:36am On Feb 24|
cloudstar:no. you accept them as true.
and I use them because I am assuming you are christian. I wouldn't use them otherwise.
and before we digress, my main contention is : if you read the bible it certainly doesn't look he knew he was here to die or even wanted to die for anybody.
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 10:07am On Feb 23|
if you only read your bible- his actions leading up to his alleged capture and crucifixion- you will find a man who was clearly not aware of any such mission and very clearly did not want to die.
as far as he knew, he was here just to preach:
Jesus replied, "Let us go somewhere else—to the nearby villages—so I can PREACH there also. THAT IS WHY I HAVE COME." (Mark 1:38)
But he said, "I must PREACH the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because THAT IS WHY I WAS SENT." (Luke 4:43)
|Islam for Muslims / Re: Salam To My Brethren. Lets Read This! Read it all Thank You by F00028: 12:46am On Feb 23|
then how come nobody told him?
because if you read the bible it certainly doesn't look he knew he was here to die or even wanted to die for anybody.
|Romance / Re: Can You Love Two People At The Same Time? by F00028: 8:26am On Feb 21|
of course its possible. you may find you love one more than the other...but still, possible.
whether you act on it is a different matter
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 6:17pm On Feb 19|
chelseaguy:you better be rich.."mad money" rich.
just kidding, sweetlemon. just kidding!
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 2:01pm On Feb 19|
one would think when you made that observation about the homes you had some idea of what you were talking about. besides all the ingredients for a good home polygamous or otherwise have been listed severally by Sweetlemon already.
minus the "billionaires only" rule of course.
ostracize his own flesh and blood for no fault of their own?
a "man" that would do that has no business having kids...even monogamously!
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 1:56pm On Feb 19|
to an extent I agree.
resources are always a factor in setting up and maintaining a polygamous home. even in premodern societies your ability to accumulate and hoard wealth was key.
however you need more than money, even mad money to live a happy and fulfilled life. this is where the equally important factor of the personalities involved takes prominence.
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 1:22pm On Feb 19|
Sweetlemon: ...a billion?!!?
sweetlemon, when you set criteria you don't kid around.
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 3:42am On Feb 19|
chelseaguy: Sweetlemon is articulate even if I don't agree with her. I guess there's a story to her vague support for polygamy. Everyone has the right to do whatever legally makes them happy. But we know kids fare better in monogamous homes than polygamous....
kids fare better in good homes, period.
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 2:18am On Feb 19|
fela? it's never claimd polygamy will make you indestructible.
|Politics / Re: APC Members And Other Muslims Rejoice Over Isaiah Balat's Death by F00028: 7:56pm On Feb 18|
Gbonigi: Is it in islam's tenet for islamic faithfuls to rejoice over another person'sno, it is not.
once a man is dead whatever we think he has done is now between him and his Maker.
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 12:26pm On Feb 18|
Infomaz: What abt polyadrous women? They should live longer. Nonsense research.it's not the same thing
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 10:45am On Feb 18|
f rain c: If it is true then let them start it by one white man gettin marry to 4 wives at once
the examples are too numerous to mention
( Janelle, Christine, Kody, Meri
and Robyn Brown, whose marital
arrangement is the subject of TLC’s
“Sister Wives.” )
- polygamy among religious and non-religious people exists in every section of America in spite of legal constraints and social ostracism. Estimates of those who practice plural marriage range anywhere from 20,000 to 100,000.
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 10:35am On Feb 18|
dodo77: as far as i'm concerned this is baseless. absolute rubbish. the oldest man in the bible lived for how many years? and how many wives did he marry? God in his infinite mercy knows what will benefit us. if polygamy would be beneficial he would have encouraged it.
God in his infinite mercy allowed many good and righteous men faithful to Him be polygamous. men like Abraham, Jacob and Moses
did you know when Hagar ran away from Sarah, God told her to go back to her polygamous marriage (Gen 16:9).
and when Aaron and Miriam opposed Moses' decision to take a second wife (Num 12:1-9), God defended his action by extolling his faithfulness (Num 12:7) and punished Miriam in particular for her opposition.
|Family / Re: Polygamy Is The Key To A Long Life by F00028: 10:14am On Feb 18|
Baby mama:because they are "widows" !!!
then let them marry more wives and live longer
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