PTH:

mba again you are committing the fallacy of reading YOUR OWN OPPINIONS into my post. Where did i indicate it was a sin to be rich? where have i said it is a sin to own a mercedes benz? My dad owns one and other family members have theirs . . . are they in sin? I think not.

God never said it is a sin to be rich, He however warns against the love of money. It is that love for money that is manifested in the responses of many who are in support of the N7.7b auditorium. The decietfulness of riches, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes/flesh is what is driving many who see the building more as a thing of pride that as another place to worship.

The minute the object becomes more important than its maker, it is a cause for alarm.

Kobojunkie:


LMAO!!!! Aaarrrgghhh…. So let me see if I get this straight… It is better for these people to use their money to buy Mercedes benz for SELF instead but it is not ok for them to put the money together to build the biggest Auditorium where they can worship God in ??


Did you think about that one before you posted it or did you think that somehow just posting it will make your stand better?? So your family owning Mercedes benz for SELF is not love of Money but these people choosing to Build the Biggest house so they can Worship God in it is LOVE OF MONEY ?? You seriously need to check yourself cause you can not see in this case which group actually made the most sacrifice here even in my own eyes as a human being … LMAO!!!


THIS IS AMAZING ~!!!!!LMAO!!!!

PTH:

Incredible! What point were you trying to make here? What part of my point do you require that i mention 1000x before you get it?
- the problem is not whether you build a church or not or buy a car . . . the problem is where do your priorities lie? In building the world's largest auditorium with the money of a people for whom 70% of them live below the poverty line or building up human temples for the Holy Ghost?

I-man:

Suggesting that investing N7.7bn in a humongous auditorium is an act of selflessness is akin to claiming that Dangote's investment in a cement factory is an act of charity.Both are investments which will reap more money for the investors.

In a country experiencing mind numbing poverty,a better act of selflessness will be investing in schools,hospitals,scholarships,e.t.c

In Nigeria,"worshiping God" has now taken a whole new meaning.

khai_khai:

who dey argue with kobojunk just dey waste im time. e go twist your words here and there, add to am for you, misinterprete you, quote bible sentence then put im own interpretation on top. .

kobojunk, abeg go start your own church because the way u dey take bible sentences dey support your ideas. you go make proper pastor.

I-man:

@Kobo

You missed an important point.There is a huge difference between spending a $100,000 in a church that you don't run and spending same on a church that you do run.Spending on an auditorium is good business for the owners of the church.They have a pecuniary interest in the proposed auditorium.

If they spent same amount on a church which they don't manage or have any pecuniary interest in,it is still wasteful but at least one cannot see any financial benefit accruing to them.

At the core of this story is a business investment no different from Dangote's investment in cement factories.Except in the latter,such investment is not cloaked as "worshiping God".

Kobojunkie :

hhhmmm,  we already have the PICK AND CHOOSE theologians here to feed us with selective verses of the bible to support their own opinion but completely skip the other parts that speak of living lavishly        .

This is sort of the debate some Christians get into when they claim that God is against WAR and when you ask them for Bible verses to support their claim. They come up with 1) GOD IS LOVE
2) TURN YOUR OTHER CHEEK
3) Greet your brother with a Holy kiss
4) LOve Your neigbour as yourself

But then ,  they do not bring up the verses where God tells the isrealites to SMITE the enemy and make sure none is left. No one remembers that in the end, Jesus is coming with an army to fight a battle,  LMAO!!!!

PICK AND CHOOSE theologians,  I call em ,  PICKA-CHU Christians


If I choose to spend $300 a day, na ya money I dey chop

khai_khai:

there for you.

before you attack, The Bible has its contradictions. . which come from being the contribution of several people. .
and there are simple sentences in it people can twist to suit their own ideas. . you are one of them. .

so can you now elaborate on Jesus coming to fight a battle at the end? ?
will he be bringing F-16s or sword? ?.  abeg tell me bros? ?

Esss:

PRAISE DA LORD!!! (of a truth my people perish for lack of wisdom)

Now y'all will agree with me when i say that the government should open up a MINISTRY of RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS to look into the financial status of these churches or order the EFCC to investigate these churches.
What next?? Christ embassy will build a space station on mars so that their prayers will reach GOD faster, or Winners Chapel will build a big church on the atlantic ocean or mountain of fire will open the biggest church on mount kilimanjaro.
The bible said judgement will start from the house of God.
Is the real purpose of our faith to show off to the world how rich and extravagant we are?? NA wah o!! Wonders shall never cease.

Am glad @Essee that you agree that we investigate the God that they worship too since he seemed to, based on your conclusion, want to Please the world here. I mean look at what is in the Bible if you are believe in the Christian God. What should we do about God in this case?? Should we get the EFCC to investigate and infact prosecute him first and foremost

Kobojunkie:


DEUTERONOMY 25


1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.
3 And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass,
4 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
5 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
6 Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense,
7 Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate.
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.[/b]
9 According to all that I show thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
10 And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.
11 And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, within and without shalt thou overlay it, and shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.
12 And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.
13 And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.
14 And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.
15 The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.
16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubim on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
23 Thou shalt also make a table of shittim wood: two cubits shall be the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.
24 And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, and make thereto a crown of gold round about.
25 And thou shalt make unto it a border of an hand breadth round about, and thou shalt make a golden crown to the border thereof round about.
26 And thou shalt make for it four rings of gold, and put the rings in the four corners that are on the four feet thereof.
27 Over against the border shall the rings be for places of the staves to bear the table.
28 And thou shalt make the staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold, that the table may be borne with them.
29 And thou shalt make the dishes thereof, and spoons thereof, and covers thereof, and bowls thereof, to cover withal: of pure gold shalt thou make them.
30 And thou shalt set upon the table showbread before me always.
showbread Lev 24:5, Matt 12:4

31 And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same.
32 And six branches shall come out of the sides of it; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side:
33 Three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick.
34 And in the candlesticks shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers.
35 And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick.
36 Their knops and their branches shall be of the same: all it shall be one beaten work of pure gold.
37 And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it.
seven Zech 4:2, Rev 1:12

38 And the tongs thereof, and the snuffdishes thereof, shall be of pure gold.
39 Of a talent of pure gold shall he make it, with all these vessels.
40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was showed thee in the mount.

Esss:

I hope I'm correct, but that passage you just rendered was from theold testament way back before jesus died on the cross and GOD STOPPED DWELLING IN THE ARK.

So are justifying the fact that a man who has over HALF of his congregation living way below minimum wage, spent the sum of 7.7billion (not thousand not million) on a house, while those who worship inside this house cannot afford transport to even get from their own houses to the house of GOD.

Or hey maybe now that the building is there GOD will now perform more miracle in RCCG than he will at deeper life.

Please explain the rational behind this idea. Cos the next thing is going to be a Gulfstream 5 jet or maybe the new A300 airbus.

Is this the reason why christ died on the cross?? so we could build multi-billion naira structures on his blood??

In the last days, their shall be many prophets, (u prolly know the rest of it).

I'm seriously waiting for your justification.

Esss:

You seem to still be hooked on the idea that God dwells in Buildings.
If you remember the story of the death of christ, (I can't seem to remember the particular verse) but after he died, the veil which seperated the holy of holies from the rest of the temple was torn apart. If you know your bible as well as i believe you do then you'll understand the significance of that incident.

GOD no longer dwell in a ark, neither in 7.7billion naira buildings nor a temple built with 24karat gold.

That building was not necessary, the cost was too much, in the end can you honestly tell me what it is worth??

Vanity.

Kobojunkie:

You mean God changed his mind and still in the new testament allowed for the building of Temples and Churches?? WAT r U talking about here?? Who said anything about building God a temple meaning being hooked on the idea that God still dwells in Buildings?? Are you trying to read my mind now?? I mean if Jesus himself saw fit to Worship and go preach in the elaborate temples which saw people and kings come from far away lands to marvel at it's beauty, you mean Jesus believed that God dwelled in buildings then?? I HAVE NEVA READ BOUT ANYTHIN LIKE THAT AT ALL IN THE BIBLE, pls give me a passage.

Esss:


Was that before his ministry or after he had flogged the thives and miscreants out of the church.

Please do me a favour and lay your points straight out on the table,  EXPLAIN TO ME The justification/grounds on which Pastor E. A Adaboye spent 7.7billion Naira of other peoples money on a building?? And also tell me how this contributes positively to the betterment of the congregation of RCCG, especially those really poor and under-prevliaged members. Also tell me how and where the bible said (In the new testament)/Jesus that we should build edifices of such magnitude for him.

Also Honestly tell me if you believe that this was necessary at all??

Kobojunkie:


About the using it for the poor instead, I have answered that very question so many times now giving verses from different places in the Bible. In this case, I would like to refer you to these verses in the Bible ,


MATTHEW 26 Vs 7 to 13


7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
disciples John 12:4

9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

11 For ye have the poor always with you; [b][color=#990000]but me ye have not always.
[/b]
12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, [b]she did it for my burial.[/b]

13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
[/color]


Look you keep trying to play that Bible angle in vain, if you are cannot show me where Jesus said Using a COMPUTER is not SIN, please know that you have nothing against the Man but bitterness that he did not use the money according to the way you want instead. I am serious, I have made the same point over and over now. No where did God say NO to such. This is just your opinion which is based on bias and holds no water in the Religious world of Christianity.

Esss:

In these end times, we are seeing so many things that we are now forced to ask ourselves if it is worth it. Yes it is okay to justify our every move in the name of God. Hells tomorrow if RCCG decides to build a multi-billion dollar airport to park their planes, it will also be justified (In the name of GOD). Afterall Convenant Uni was built by a church and yet over half the total congregation of that church cannot afford to send their kids to a school they contributed to build, (all in the name of GOD)

debojyde:
For those who want more info on RCCG, read the link below.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redeemed_Christian_Church_of_God

wikipedia article:
Today, God is still doing marvelous deeds through the Redeemed Christian Church of God, worldwide. One of the well-known programs of the church is the Holy Ghost Service, an all night miracle service that holds on the first Friday of every month at the Redemption Camp at Km. 46, Lagos-Ibadan expressway. The Holy Ghost Service now holds in London quarterly and in other parts of the world. Another major service is the Holy Ghost congress which holds in the second week of December every year at the Redemption Camp.

Some of the promises of the Lord to the RCCG are as follows:

1. That He will meet this Church on His return. 2. That this Church will become a model to the whole world. 3. That other Churches from all over the world would come to learn and worship in this Church.

wikipedia article:

The Redeemed Christian Church of God has its own group of churches the United States. It also has a headquarters in Dallas,USA it is about 500 acres wide.RCCGNA has at least 300 churches in all states including Canada, Hawaii,and Alaska. They have the[b] Board of Directors [/b] in 19 zones. The Chairman Board of Coordinators is Pastor James Fadele

PTH:



[b]Perhaps we need to remind some that N7.7b is much more than the national yrly budgets of some countries in Africa. [/b]Maybe we should tell them that the development of a nation and how spiritual its people is not defined by how large their auditoriums are.

I hear so many crying Adeboye on this thread . . . funny that the name Jesus Christ comes second to that of their "daddy".