lastmessenger:

Very true but at the same time Christ never taught that sinners will be subjected to a never ending torture as I have told since I was small.

[quote author=michaelwestern post=29335761]
You clearly have not been reading your bible very well. Jesus Christ indicated that the torture would be everlasting. An example is in mark.

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Read your bible by yourself with the help of the Holy Spirit

All these websites will just prey on your limited knowledge of the bible to mislead you. They will quote aspects that supports their claim and interpret it wrongly but they wont quote verses in the scripture that goes against their point. Be careful.

shdemidemi:
^^^

hahahhaha.. You dare ask me questions! Have you answered any of mine?

frosbel:


but you are the teacher of scripture, no ?

Kindly educate me on Ezekiel 28:19.

frosbel:


Stop spreading your ignorance for the whole world to see, we know you point of view and it has been debunked by even the baby believers on this site, just carry on with your churchianity and let those who want to learn learn.

michaelwestern:


You clearly have not been reading your bible very well. Jesus Christ indicated that the torture would be everlasting. An example is in mark.

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

If you read the whole chapter you will deduce that He was describing hell fire as a place of everlasting torture.

Read your bible by yourself with the help of the Holy Spirit. All these websites will just prey on your limited knowledge of the bible to mislead you. They will quote aspects that supports their claim and interpret it wrongly but they wont quote verses in the scripture that goes against their point. Be careful.

frosbel:
a

[quote author=michaelwestern post=29336752]
I've been monitoring your ranting on nairaland and I've realised that your problem is pride. You believe that you know more than every pastor and christian in Nigeria.

You read articles on the internet and believe them whole heartedly but you don't believe some portions of the bible. Don't you know that its people like you and me that put all these articles on the internet. They claim to conduct research but you fail to realise that this events occurred over 2 thousand years ago. Any research you do will at most be inconclusive because of lack of complete evidence. That's why different researchers have made different conclusions on the same topic. Most of this websites even copy themselves and just do minor modifications.

Another problem you have is that you don't conduct a balanced research. Try to always check the opinions of Christian apologetics on any issues before drawing your conclusions. Most of the issues you have against the bible and Christians have been fully explained on Christian apologists' websites.

lastmessenger:

Have you seen a dead body. What happens to it is that there will definitely be worm all over it. The fire of hell is forever does not mean sinners are conscious in it. It only means that the fire keep burning. Please let's not say what the bible did not say because you want to prove a point.
The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. The sinners receive the opposite of what the righteous will receive and that is death.

michaelwestern:


So you mean that Jesus Christ was saying that the fire that will burn their dead bodies will not be quenched? Really? Please read the whole chapter.

michaelwestern:


Read the whole chapter 9 of mark and tell me how your explanation correlates with what Jesus Christ was saying.

lastmessenger:

This is a simple statement made by Jesus in Mathew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

From the scripture it is obvious that Gods plan is to destroy the sinners body and soul in hell. No mention was made of never ending torturous conscious existence.

michaelwestern:


You clearly have not been reading your bible very well. Jesus Christ indicated that the torture would be everlasting. An example is in mark.

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

If you read the whole chapter you will deduce that He was describing hell fire as a place of everlasting torture.

Read your bible by yourself with the help of the Holy Spirit. All these websites will just prey on your limited knowledge of the bible to mislead you. They will quote aspects that supports their claim and interpret it wrongly but they wont quote verses in the scripture that goes against their point. Be careful.

shdemidemi:


Are you also denying the obvious like 'god' frosbel? We have so many description of hell and absolutely nothing makes it seem like a tolerable place rather it is commonly painted as a place of anguish, hopelessness and punishment.


2 Thess 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Jude 1313 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

[quote author=shdemidemi post=29337511]

Are you also denying the obvious like 'god' frosbel? We have so many description of hell and absolutely nothing makes it seem like a tolerable place rather it is commonly painted as a place of anguish, hopelessness and punishment.


2 Thess 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Jude 1313 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

frosbel:


Okay let me engage you a wee bit.


"43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] 45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] [c] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell," - Mark 9.


Context ;
1. You cannot pick and choose what part of this scripture is to be taken literally and which to take metaphorically.
2. We have to assume that Jesus meant exactly what he said to the letter.
3. Hell here is translatd γέενναν Greek or geennan English.
4. geennan was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem where rubbish and corpses were burnt - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
5. If we believe that Hell is literal then we should also cut of our eyes if we lust, cut of our hands if we steal ( oh how Sharia preachers will love this ) , cut of our feet if we venture on the path of sin etc etc.

shdemidemi:


Yes...It is literal. If you can cut your eye to avoid hell, go ahead.

Jesus knew you better, you won't do that. Isn't that why He became the carrier of your burden by absorbing His father's divine wrath on the cross?

michaelwestern:


.......than the bible which is the Word of God. ......

esere826:




I thought that Jesus is the Word of God?
umhh,... I learn new things everyday

michaelwestern:


Read the whole chapter 9 of mark and tell me how your explanation correlates with what Jesus Christ was saying.

michaelwestern:


Read the whole chapter 9 of mark and tell me how your explanation correlates with what Jesus Christ was saying.

lastmessenger:

What so you understand by destruction? Is it unending torture? If yes tell me how. Destruction in the scripture you quote talks about the state of the sinners which is the second death. Please how can death become translated as an unending torture. Is simple English. Try and read the Jude quote in contest before pasting one verse to prove a point.

shdemidemi:


Destruction....appolumi in the greek

The idea is not extinction but loss of well being and not of being.

Do your research.

frosbel:


Hmm, lets see....

So Jesus enduring wrath for 3 days = a MAN enduring wrath for 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 x infinity years ??



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

shdemidemi:


Destruction....appolumi in the greek

The idea is not extinction but loss of well being and not of being.

Do your research.

lastmessenger:

Bro I know the Greek word and you jut lied about the meaning. It means extinction.
Stop lieing.

Strong's Concordance
apóleia: destruction, loss
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Short Definition: destruction, ruin, loss
Definition: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off" – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).

684 /apṓleia ("perdition" [size=32pt]does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off" but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being[/size](Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).

shdemidemi:

Strong's Concordance
apóleia: destruction, loss
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Short Definition: destruction, ruin, loss
Definition: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off" – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).

684 /apṓleia ("perdition" [size=32pt]does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off" but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being[/size](Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).

Bidam:
The conclusion of the matter is that Revelation 20:10 never said Satan and the false prophets would be annihilated and destroyed thus becoming extint. It said their torment will be day and night for ever and ever. It is simple to read and comprehend really. Why are you forcing your opinion into God's word. You can ask God if you see Him why He should torment d devil and his disciples day and night abi?

frosbel:



[size=13pt]Are you now a LIAR as well.[/size]

Why not use the [size=14pt]actual Strong's words[/size] used in the exact passage that your quoted ?? - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

3639. olethros ol'-eth-ros from a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); [size=14pt]ruin, i.e. death, punishment:--destruction.
[/size]

622. apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee from 575 and the base of 3639; [size=14pt]to destroy fully[/size] (reflexively, to perish, or lose), [size=14pt]literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.[/size]