Liekiller:


This is not an easy situation at all, sorry. Do you think she is generally willing and able to think outside the box of what she has been indoctrinated with, provided that you explain your reasons and why it is a fraud very well?

Does she have the capacity to think outside the box? YES! Will she be willing to go that road? That, I cannot say! You know how offensive religion makes one be. When you present hard facts, you will be taken as a lost soul who doesn't even deserve a listening ear.

I will cite an example. I gave her money for something relating to school last month and she used a tenth of it to pay tithe and sowed some seed with a part of the remaining. The money was no longer complete and she didn't have the nerve to tell me. It was money meant for her off-camp accommodation. When the landlord/caretaker's pressure became unbearable, she told me about it. I was so shocked/mad about it. I confronted her and we had this bitter argument over the phone. I was trying to make her see that her student/pastor was feasting off the students but she was understanding it that I was angry that she paid tithe and sowed seed because I was the one that gave her the money.

I was so pained! Here was I working my a'rse off to make ends meet and someone else is at the alter, making some gibberish proclamations and hoodwink naïve people to drop cash for him.

This is just a case among many! Its just becoming a little unbearable. The worst is that the 'offensive' religious attitude comes in play and negates any form of reasoning that would have taken place.

Apart from the love we have for each other, I don't think I will like to see myself having these sort of issues over-time. Trust me, even love itself has a breaking point.

Liekiller:


Oh i totally do agree with you. It's just that he doesn't want to lose her, so they at least can try to sort it out. From what i've seen i also have huge doubts that she'd understand it and not make a fuss about it. But then again what other way is there than to talk? Should it end due to this then at least both know why.

I tell you religion has enslave many who do not even know that they're slaves!.

Simplex2 talking it out with his girl friend will only complicate issues. When two people have opposing views, they always tend to contradict each other, especially if they both have strong belief they are right!. Its the classic case between Christians and Moslems, and just how well have both fared?.

This same thing have happened to me, I was wooing a girl who actually liked my lyrics, she has already said yes, as an after thought she asked if I go to church, simply told her I don't, then came all the kasala! I mean this girl practically disturbed the living day light out of me. She even asked me to attend her church which I did several times. I discovered that any time I tell her I want to see her she'll give me flimsy excuses, but when she tell me she wants to see me I oblige her, and she usually turn it into a preaching session which I always listen.

I was pissed a certain day when she told me via WhatsApp that I'm one stubborn guy, that most guys she speaks to about christianity usually succumb but not me. She told me that I don't listen. Then I actually reminded her that was there ever a time she told me to come to her church that I didn't come? She said no, and also if there was anytime she told me she want to see me and I didn't show? She said no, then I now asked her if she has ever oblige me by coming to see me when I tell her I want to see her, she kept mute, I now asked her who listen between myself and her, she kept mute. By this time I was really pissed, I just told her that "there can never be any relationship between a slave and a free man".

Since then, I've learnt never to have any personal dealings with anybody who is an ardent church goer.

simplex2:


Does she have the capacity to think outside the box? YES! Will she be willing to go that road? That, I cannot say! You know how offensive religion makes one be. When you present hard facts, you will be taken as a lost soul who doesn't even deserve a listening ear.

I will cite an example. I gave her money for something relating to school last month and she used a tenth of it to pay tithe and sowed some seed with a part of the remaining. The money was no longer complete and she didn't have the nerve to tell me. It was money meant for her off-camp accommodation. When the landlord/caretaker's pressure became unbearable, she told me about it. I was so shocked/mad about it. I confronted her and we had this bitter argument over the phone. I was trying to make her see that her student/pastor was feasting off the students but she was understanding it that I was angry that she paid tithe and sowed seed because I was the one that gave her the money.

I was so pained! Here was I working my a'rse off to make ends meet and someone else is at the alter, making some gibberish proclamations and hoodwink naïve people to drop cash for him.

This is just a case among many! Its just becoming a little unbearable. The worst is that the 'offensive' religious attitude comes in play and negates any form of reasoning that would have taken place.

Apart from the love we have for each other, I don't think I will like to see myself having these sort of issues over-time. Trust me, even love itself has a breaking point.

Yep, it sure does, and after this post i have a feeling your mind is actually made up. If you know already that this is not how you want to live and you don't see any convincing development after some serious talk, i would advise you to move on and find someone who thinks like you. Everything else would most likely only lead to constant arguing and frustration on both sides.

simplex2:


Does she have the capacity to think outside the box? YES! Will she be willing to go that road? That, I cannot say! You know how offensive religion makes one be. When you present hard facts, you will be taken as a lost soul who doesn't even deserve a listening ear.

I will cite an example. I gave her money for something relating to school last month and she used a tenth of it to pay tithe and sowed some seed with a part of the remaining. The money was no longer complete and she didn't have the nerve to tell me. It was money meant for her off-camp accommodation. When the landlord/caretaker's pressure became unbearable, she told me about it. I was so shocked/mad about it. I confronted her and we had this bitter argument over the phone. I was trying to make her see that her student/pastor was feasting off the students but she was understanding it that I was angry that she paid tithe and sowed seed because I was the one that gave her the money.

I was so pained! Here was I working my a'rse off to make ends meet and someone else is at the alter, making some gibberish proclamations and hoodwink naïve people to drop cash for him.

This is just a case among many! Its just becoming a little unbearable. The worst is that the 'offensive' religious attitude comes in play and negates any form of reasoning that would have taken place.

Apart from the love we have for each other, I don't think I will like to see myself having these sort of issues over-time. Trust me, even love itself has a breaking point.

For the fact that she used money meant for her accommodation to pay tithe and sow seed, dude, please, remove your shoes, dust it and RUN AWAY!!!.

simplex2:
Wow! Nice thread. There are loads of issues we can discuss in-house. Was thinking of starting a thread about certain things but decided against it; since the obvious religious felas will invade it with their fanaticism.



This is the first issue bugging me: My girlfrnd. We've dated for yrs now and we're planning on getting married next year. But one thing has always lingered in my mind: religion!
I'm agnostic but she is a devout christian. We started dating long time ago when I was still a christian; but after my mum's death, I realized all the promise of ask and it shall be given were false. That was the spark to my quest for answers: and I discovered I've been lied to ALL MY FVCKING LIFE!

I was supposed to see her parents this xmas but I developed cold feet and called it off. I'm yet to tell her I've left religion; she's yet to understand why I backed-off. Don't get me wrong, we love each other like mad! This is our 4th year dating. I do love her but the issue of spending the rest of your life with someone of contrasting believe scares the shit out of me; what happens to the children? What if she believes she can rope me in and then turns to a nag thereafter? I know I should tell her, but I'm still scared of loosing her. I wouldn't want her dumping her religion because of me so its kind of complicated.

What do you guys think?

If you're going to remain agnostic for a long time, it is better you tell her about your agnosticism now. Whether you tell her or not, she will find out eventually. She needs to know about something like this before she goes ahead with marrying you. The sooner you tell her, the more time she'll have to consider your position, and maybe endorse it.

Why does it matter what her reason for dumping religion is, assuming she does that?

joseph1832:
I tell you religion has enslave many who do not even know that they're slaves!.

Simplex2 talking it out with his girl friend will only complicate issues. When two people have opposing views, they always tend to contradict each other, especially if they both have strong belief they are right!. Its the classic case between Christians and Moslems, and just how well have both fared?.

This same thing have happened to me, I was wooing a girl who actually liked my lyrics, she has already said yes, as an after thought she asked if I go to church, simply told her I don't, then came all the kasala! I mean this girl practically disturbed the living day light out of me. She even asked me to attend her church which I did several times. I discovered that any time I tell her I want to see her she'll give me flimsy excuses, but when she tell me she wants to see me I oblige her, and she usually turn it into a preaching session which I always listen.

I was pissed a certain day when she told me via WhatsApp that I'm one stubborn guy, that most guys she speaks to about christianity usually succumb but not me. She told me that I don't listen. Then I actually reminded her that was there ever a time she told me to come to her church that I didn't come? She said no, and also if there was anytime she told me she want to see me and I didn't show? She said no, then I now asked her if she has ever oblige me by coming to see me when I tell her I want to see her, she kept mute, I now asked her who listen between myself and her, she kept mute. By this time I was really pissed, I just told her that "there can never be any relationship between a slave and a free man".

Since then, I've learnt never to have any personal dealings with anybody who is an ardent church goer.

I sure wonder why they are all so fanatic?!!? Nothing good comes from it, ever. It's actually quite tragic how this madness has gotten to a point that it destroys everything that could be beautiful and human. I would nevr even consider getting into a relationship or marriage with someone who is more than just a tiny bit religious. Understanding and reasonable exchange seems impossible in such a setting.

Liekiller:


I sure wonder why they are all so fanatic?!!? Nothing good comes from it, ever. It's actually quite tragic how this madness has gotten to a point that it destroys everything that could be beautiful and human. I would nevr even consider getting into a relationship or marriage with someone who is more than just a tiny bit religious. Understanding and reasonable exchange seems impossible in such a setting.

Understanding is what many of them lack as they always hold fast to what their pastor tell them. They will never bother to find out for themselves.

Its such a wonder that Nigerians have become more religious than the people who brought religion to them.

Liekiller:


Yep, it sure does, and after this post i have a feeling your mind is actually made up. If you know already that this is not how you want to live and you don't see any convincing development after some serious talk, i would advise you to move on and find someone who thinks like you. Everything else would most likely only lead to constant arguing and frustration on both sides.

My mind isn't made up. It worries me day and night. I make sacrifices to put things in shape: whenever she's around, we go to church together. Moving on won't be ideal for me; what happens when I move on and fall in love with another christian? I move on again? And again? I'm agnostic and not an atheist, at such, frivolous things as religion and existence/non-existence of god doesn't border me for once.

I want to spend the rest of my life together and can even accommodate her religious excesses (as long as it doesn't affect my finances and future children) but will she be willing to do same? My greatest fear!

simplex2:


My mind isn't made up. It worries me day and night. I make sacrifices to put things in shape: whenever she's around, we go to church together. Moving on won't be ideal for me; what happens when I move on and fall in love with another christian? I move on again? And again? I'm agnostic and not an atheist, at such, frivolous things as religion and existence/non-existence of god doesn't border me for once.

I want to spend the rest of my life together and can even accommodate her religious excesses (as long as it doesn't affect my finances and future children) but will she be willing to do same? My greatest fear!

I understand you. i know it's not easy to look at things unemotionally when you are in love, but i'm afraid it's necessary here. Ask yourself: do you WANT to put up with religious excesses day after day? Is it realistic that it won't affect your finances and children? You probably don't have the intention to get married more than once, so you should be very sure about who you spend the rest of your life with. Even if you move on now there is no obligation to fall in love with another overly religious one next time. Take a very close look at the person next time before you invest yourself emotionally.

undercat:


If you're going to remain agnostic for a long time, it is better you tell her about your agnosticism now. Whether you tell her or not, she will find out eventually. She needs to know about something like this before she goes ahead with marrying you. The sooner you tell her, the more time she'll have to consider your position, and maybe endorse it.

Why does it matter what her reason for dumping religion is, assuming she does that?

Telling her is not an option, rather, I'll make her find out. It will require time and many life examples to drive it in. I don't know how she'll take it if I just throw it at her. I know we need to be in the same frequency if we're going to commit but my greatest fear remains how she'll take it!

@bolded, there's no question about if I'm going to remain agnostic. Religion is simply deceptive!

joseph1832:
Understanding is what many of them lack as they always hold fast to what their pastor tell them. They will never bother to find out for themselves.

Its such a wonder that Nigerians have become more religious than the people who brought religion to them.

I doubt it's a wonder. It seems to be more the result of bad education and a social system that detests critical thinking but is very fond of "obedience". And then of course too many are benefitting from it. It's probably the biggest business in naija. Too many have an interest in an uneducated and uncritical population.

simplex2:


Telling her is not an option, rather, I'll make her find out. It will require time and many life examples to drive it in. I don't know how she'll take it if I just throw it at her. I know we need to be in the same frequency if we're going to commit but my greatest fear remains how she'll take it!

@bolded, there's no question about if I'm going to remain agnostic. Religion is simply deceptive!

One simple method is to get into an argument about the efficacy of prayer, or the goodness of God, and stick to your guns until she is forced to ask why you would say such things if you believe in God. You can then give her your answer. You don't have to spend much time.

I just got out an argument with a bunch of believers. believe me we are truly the minority! I was about beaten because of I'm an unbeliever. smh

Liekiller:


I doubt it's a wonder. It seems to be more the result of bad education and a social system that detests critical thinking but is very fond of "obedience". And then of course too many are benefitting from it. It's probably the biggest business in naija. Too many have an interest in an uneducated and uncritical population.

Isn't that what religion preaches? "Blind followership" thus warrants "blind obedience". Obey without asking questions. That is truly the wonder, how a set of people who have brains will choose to follow what they're been told than allow themself think.

[quote author=simplex2 post=30959540]

Does she have the capacity to think outside the box? YES! Will she be willing to go that road? That, I cannot say! You know how offensive religion makes one be. When you present hard facts, you will be taken as a lost soul who doesn't even deserve a listening ear. you are right. I was in an argument with some believers. believe they were not willing to accept hard facts, rather I was deemed a lost soul threading the path of destruction.

joseph1832:
Isn't that what religion preaches? "Blind followership" thus warrants "blind obedience". Obey without asking questions. That is truly the wonder, how a set of people who have brains will choose to follow what they're been told than allow themself think.

So true. I couldn't say i understand it. It's a mystery to me how one can totally shut off the ability to think because of brainwashing. But then again i never was brainwashed.

Liekiller:


So true. I couldn't say i understand it. It's a mystery to me how one can totally shut off the ability to think because of brainwashing. But then again i never was brainwashed.

That's exactly what brainwashing does, it erodes ones ability to think/reason. Were you born a christian or moslem?

Let me mark register.


I'm an atheist to everyone I know except my parents. U've tried telling them so many times but I know it ll probably kill them to hear their son say "There z not God"

Nah, I will keep it to myself.

joseph1832:
That's exactly what brainwashing does, it erodes ones ability to think/reason. Were you born a christian or moslem?

I was born as a naked little human with a brain that was thankfully not killed with moronic madness right from the start. I did grow up somewhat Catholic, but not in a very religious surrounding. How about you?

nana228:
I intend to tell them the truth about the Bible as a book of fables and myths which I know of. They are also free to choose whatever they wish to believe. I won't impose any belief on them.

I guess the best you can do is play your part and hope for the best.

simplex2:
Wow! Nice thread. There are loads of issues we can discuss in-house. Was thinking of starting a thread about certain things but decided against it; since the obvious religious felas will invade it with their fanaticism.



This is the first issue bugging me: My girlfrnd. We've dated for yrs now and we're planning on getting married next year. But one thing has always lingered in my mind: religion!
I'm agnostic but she is a devout christian. We started dating long time ago when I was still a christian; but after my mum's death, I realized all the promise of ask and it shall be given were false. That was the spark to my quest for answers: and I discovered I've been lied to ALL MY FVCKING LIFE!

I was supposed to see her parents this xmas but I developed cold feet and called it off. I'm yet to tell her I've left religion; she's yet to understand why I backed-off. Don't get me wrong, we love each other like mad! This is our 4th year dating. I do love her but the issue of spending the rest of your life with someone of contrasting believe scares the shit out of me; what happens to the children? What if she believes she can rope me in and then turns to a nag thereafter? I know I should tell her, but I'm still scared of loosing her. I wouldn't want her dumping her religion because of me so its kind of complicated.

What do you guys think?

Just tell her first and go from there. I got married before I came to full,realisation of who I am,and what I,want for myself and my,children. I'm taking it one day at a time. I go to,church but for me its like going to the movies, it only possesses entertainment values to me. And I have very opposing values from my husband but we always,work things out one way,or the other. So if your love for her is real...believe me, you will find a way...goodluck

Liekiller:


I was born as a naked little human with a brain that was thankfully not killed with moronic madness right from the start. I did grow up somewhat Catholic, but not in a very religious surrounding. How about you?

I was born into a very Christian family, into the strict order and dogmatic ways of the Eternal Sacred Order of the Cherubim and Seraphim. Religion was all I knew then and going to church was paramount!. I was liberated when I was in my second year in Uniben.

bluedaze:

Just tell her first and go from there. I got married before I came to full,realisation of who I am,and what I,want for myself and my,children. I'm taking it one day at a time. I go to,church but for me its like going to the movies, it only possesses entertainment values to me. And I have very opposing values from my husband but we always,work things out one way,or the other. So if your love for her is real...believe me, you will find a way...goodluck

What works for you can not work for someone else. Please don't generalize. From what simplex2 has said, his fiancee is no where like you, so don't generalize.

colored:
I just got out an argument with a bunch of believers. believe me we are truly the minority! I was about beaten because of I'm an unbeliever. smh

You need to take it easy with the kind of arguments you make with the religitards outside. Then can kill you just because you are present hard facts about a god's existence.

I once mentioned I was atheist at my workplace but quickly proclaimed I was joking a week after when I noticed hostilities from my co-workers. You don't mess with over-zealous religious folks before they inplicate you in a transaction you know nothing about. Only my H.O.D who happens to be muslim can still discern that I am atheist after listening to how I present arguments on religion.

kevoh:


You need to take it easy with the kind of arguments you make with the religitards outside. Then can kill you just because you are present hard facts about a god's existence.

I once mentioned I was atheist at my workplace but quickly proclaimed I was joking a week after when I noticed hostilities from my co-workers. You don't mess with over-zealous religious folks before they inplicate you in a transaction you know nothing about. Only my H.O.D who happens to be muslim can still discern that I am atheist after listening to how I present arguments on religion.

More and more people start using their heads everyday..

It can only get better and the rate by which youths dumb their religions is blazing like wild fire.

21st century youths are tired of living their life based on some archaic, mythical concept (deitys) more people are starting to find out that shiiit doesnt exist.

It can only get better... NL is a perfect example

Beginning to wonder if the females I see here are really females because I no dey see una for real life.

joseph1832:
Are you serious? Please don't get it miscontrue, atheist defer, don't kid yourself that when you marry an atheist he'll worship only you because it'll shock you.

Its a known fact that many Nigerian men cheat on their wives, in fact they see it as almost normal, and majority of these men are church goers, when it comes to sex many don't let their religious conviction deprive them of it.

If you really want to know a man who will worship only you, is very simple, when you're dating, if he doesn't cheat on you, then there's a high probability that he won't when you guys are married, but if he cheats on you, then, rest assured he'll cheat on you when you're maRried.

that does not mean that he does not worship me

Following

Zedric:
Let me mark register.


I'm an atheist to everyone I know except my parents. U've tried telling them so many times but I know it ll probably kill them to hear their son say "There z not God"

Nah, I will keep it to myself.

Its best that way for your sanity and peace of mind. I don't engage in arguments with them religious felas; unless when they tend to disturb my peace. Was in a bus for a short journey sometime ago when a preacher, as usual, decide to disturb the entire bus with condemnation and damnation of whoever won't believe in his preaching. Then he started yabbing about how unpeaceful other religions are and how they are known for causing wars, terrorism and unrest and how only in christianity that there is absolute peace that passes all understanding. He was seating close to me so I just asked him in a calm voice: 'Isn't that the same things christians did in times past?' He tried to feign ignorance (maybe he didn't really know) but I reminded them that god did command his people to wipe out the amalekites, caninites and any pegan and unbeliever that crosses their path, same thing allah told the muslims so how is it peaceful in his own religion.

His mistake was to think he would intimidate me with a louder voice but I persisted. Reminded him that all the first born of egypt was murdered by his peaceful god just to make a point. Reminded him that jericho was utterly destroyed because they refused to open their gates and allow the isrealites to pass thru. Backing up the little conversation with bible verses murdered whatever defense he was going to put up. He pulled up crap about old and new testament but I reminded him that right inside the bus, he had mentioned that god is the same yesterday, today and forever so why is he adjusting the nature of god to suit his purpose.

Now I was able to engage into this argument by taking the stance of a muslim and being Lagos where there's mixed religious population, some peeps inside the bus (who are obviously muslims) concurred and supported me. Now imagine if I had taken a stance that there was no god? I will of course be getting disdains from both muslims and christians alike inside the bus.

I don't argue with them felas as long as they let me be. I prefer discussing 'issues' with them rather than discussing god with them (maybe because of my agnostic nature). Like the issue of tithing my colleagues at work were arguing with me: when I opened Deutronomy 14 and showed them where it is allowed to eat your tithe and even buy beer with it and drink.
But its obvious nothing you say will free them from their bliss.

simplex2:


Its best that way for your sanity and peace of mind. I don't engage in arguments with them religious felas; unless when they tend to disturb my peace. Was in a bus for a short journey sometime ago when a preacher, as usual, decide to disturb the entire bus with condemnation and damnation of whoever won't believe in his preaching. Then he started yabbing about how unpeaceful other religions are and how they are known for causing wars, terrorism and unrest and how only in christianity that there is absolute peace that passes all understanding. He was seating close to me so I just asked him in a calm voice: 'Isn't that the same things christians did in times past?' He tried to feign ignorance (maybe he didn't really know) but I reminded them that god did command his people to wipe out the amalekites, caninites and any pegan and unbeliever that crosses their path, same thing allah told the muslims so how is it peaceful in his own religion.

His mistake was to think he would intimidate me with a louder voice but I persisted. Reminded him that all the first born of egypt was murdered by his peaceful god just to make a point. Reminded him that jericho was utterly destroyed because they refused to open their gates and allow the isrealites to pass thru. Backing up the little conversation with bible verses murdered whatever defense he was going to put up. He pulled up crap about old and new testament but I reminded him that right inside the bus, he had mentioned that god is the same yesterday, today and forever so why is he adjusting the nature of god to suit his purpose.

Now I was able to engage into this argument by taking the stance of a muslim and being Lagos where there's mixed religious population, some peeps inside the bus (who are obviously muslims) concurred and supported me. Now imagine if I had taken a stance that there was no god? I will of course be getting disdains from both muslims and christians alike inside the bus.

I don't argue with them felas as long as they let me be. I prefer discussing 'issues' with them rather than discussing god with them (maybe because of my agnostic nature). Like the issue of tithing my colleagues at work were arguing with me: when I opened Deutronomy 14 and showed them where it is allowed to eat your tithe and even buy beer with it and drink.
But its obvious nothing you say will free them from their bliss.

Very good one...

I have had a similar argument one on one with a pastor in abuja, he ended up telling me that you cant question god.. packed his bag and went home, am certain he is agnostic Christian now tho...

I fuckinglove atheism