On the issue of if jesus is the ach angel Micheal or not , ill like to ask questions to come to a better understanding .

Let's clear away some terminologies (if I'm wrong pls tell me where)

Angel : Both the Hebrew mal·ʼakhʹ and the Greek agʹge·los literally mean “messenger.”
(Q1: is this true or false?)

Messenger: a person who carries a message or goes on an errand for another, especially as a matter of duty or business.
In short , a messenger is a person sent to do something by another person.
(Q2: is this true or false ? )

(Q3:Can we rightfully now say that angels according to the bible are spirit messengers of God?. That they are spirit creatures who are sent by God to perform certain functions and also represent him ? )

(Q4: is jesus a spirit ?)

(Q5: does the bible ever tell use that jesus is sent by God (the father)? )

(Q6 : does the bible ever tell us that jesus had a message from someone else for us ?)

Arch-angel : literally means chief agent. In the bible , it is never mentioned in plural form to signify that their is only one archangel (chief angel/oga patapata of the angels ). Throughout the bible , there is only one name associated with the arch angel and this is Michael.
I believe we can also say that the Arch angel is the chief messenger of God (if I'm wrong let me know) .

.....................................................
While considering that, we move on to some bible verses.

Daniel 10:13:
King James Bible
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

International Standard
Version
However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for 21 days. Then all of a sudden, Michael, one of the chief angels, came to assist
me! I had been detained there near the kings of Persia.


Daniel 10:21
New Living Translation
Meanwhile, I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one helps me against these spirit princes except Michael, your spirit prince.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one has the courage to support me against them except Michael, your prince. However, I will tell you what is recorded in the book of truth.


Daniel 12:1 :
New International Version
"At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be
a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-- everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

Jude 9:
King James Bible
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of
Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Rev 12:7
King James Bible
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the
dragon fought and his angels,

From this verses above we can assume the following .
1. There is order and rank among the angels .
2. Michael is the leader of the angels , hence the most powerful in rank , power and authority.
3. Micheal is the foremost of the princes(he is a prince)

4.Micheal is the prince of jehovahs people and he is always standing on their behalf(the Jews in the OT and spiritual isreal in the NT)to protect them.


Now let's dig further

Ex 23:20,21,23 :
King James Bible
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place
which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
completely destroy them. For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

With the scriptures above , we can rightly say that an angel guided the isrealites into the promised land and stood on their behalf against the Egyptians and other more powerful nations,and that this angel is the angel of Daniels people mentioned earlier . Thus this angel is Micheal(who stands on behalf of Daniels people),who while being a prince of jehovahs people contented with Satan over moses body(Jude 9).

Now let's look at who apostle paul called this powerful angel

In cor 10: 1-4 paul when talking about the isrealites and their journey from Egypt said :

King James Bible
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud(in reference to the angel that formed a cloud to protect and guide them during their journey), and all passed through the sea;(in reference to the miracle of dividing the red sea ) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same
spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

(Q8: Now who did paul say was that spiritual rock that followed the isrealite during their journey ,that guided them and performs neccesary saving actions?

(Q9: what did God call the spirit person that will guide the isrealite and that they should listen to and that his name is in him ?

Pls read

Mal 3:1
Ex 3 :2
Acts 7: 30:31

To be continued .....

CANTICLES:


Why is dis too hard for u to understand ?

Our God = The FATHER ( 1 Cor 8:5,6)

AND Saviour = Jesus Christ .

INFACT , verse 2 reveal that the person called God by the apostle peter is THE FATHER

" ... An accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord" Vrs 2. WOW! This bring John 17:3 to mind. " [b]knowledge[/b]of you the ONLY TRUE GOD, and the one whom you sent Christ Jesus"
" "

It seem like you don't know English.
Peter said "our God and saviour Jesus" not our God and our saviour Jesus.
Now I understand JW problem; they don't understand English. This is the reason you should pay attention in your English class.

CANTICLES:


FOREMOST: The Apostles know that " true worshippers will worship only the Father" John 4:23,24 , Jesus himself quote deu 6:13 in matt 4:10 to show that WORSHIP belong solely to Jehovah, God of abraham, Isaac ,Jacob And The God of Jesus himself .

What about matt 28:9 ?

The obvious fact is that the apostles " held him at his feet" , the same act that Abigeal did to David in 1 samuel 25:23,24, obeisance was also done by a tekoite woman to the King ( 1 Sam 14:4) TO SHOW HONOUR AND RESPECT NOT for sacred devotion .

The greek word translated worship in matt 28:9 is " proskuneo", Vines Expository Dictionary explains .

Vines Expository Dictionary
word:
"1.PROSKUNEO..., to make obeisance, do
reverence to(from pros, towards, and kuneo,
to kiss)is the most frequent word rendered to
worship."

Thats why some translations appropriately use " make obeisance "

Kiss and worship is different. When a woman came and kiss Jesus feet, the Bible didn't say she worshiped him but clearly state that she kiss his feet.
Simply show me were in the Bible that it is stated that a messenger of God is worshipped and he didn't condemn them from worshipping him (a verse where the word worship is used and not kiss).

Hiswordxray:

It seem like you don't know English.
Peter said "our God and saviour Jesus" not our God and our saviour Jesus.
Now I understand JW problem; they don't understand English. This is the reason you should pay attention in your English class.

" OUR GOD" , who is the God of the first century christians ? , " FOR US , there is one God, The Father" 1 Cor 8:5,6

This fact would have been clear to you if u would compare different translations and see the truth of that verse . Verse 2 would have even help u but ur fabricated state of mind wont let u examine the surroundin verses .

johnw74:


No I don't agree with you that Mary is the mother of God
Jesus was God (the Word) before He was born a man
you sure have strange beliefs

simply bcoz Mary didnt give birth to God but " a man, Jesus" 1 Tim 2:5 !

Uv Just Exposed ur trinitarian heresy , .. Ur hypocrisy and inconsistency is 1st class , hw wil somone belive Jesus is God , but fail to recognize mary as the mother of God ?

Hiswordxray:

Why did the disciples worship and called Jesus God?
"9 And as they went to tell His disciples, b behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him." (Matt 28:9).

Please research the original greek word translated as Worship in that verse by some bible Translations. What does Worship mean?

Worship (noun): 1) deep respect paid to a god or goddess. 2) great admiration

Read what the disciples did to Jesus and compare it to what a young Yoruba man does to his elders- any similarities/ difference worth mentioning. Relate that to the definition of 'Worship' above.

NB: Worship is not EXCLUSIVE to God, men worship other gods, Satan and Angels (Colossians 2:18). Worshipping the latter does not mean they are Almighty God, does it?

Hiswordxray:

"1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2Pet 1:1).

Lol, you quoted from RSV but you omitted the footnote attached to the bold section above. That footnote read thus: "or of OUR GOD and THE SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST". Compare this footnote and KJV "....through the righteousness of GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST"

Compare other translation too: The point is, that verse speaks of two distinct entity- 1) God 2) The Saviour; They are not one and the same as you suggested in your post.

RikoduoSennin:


Please research the original greek word translated as Worship in that verse by some bible Translations. What does Worship mean?

Worship (noun): 1) deep respect paid to a god or goddess. 2) great admiration

Read what the disciples did to Jesus and compare it to what a young Yoruba man does to his elders- any similarities/ difference worth mentioning. Relate that to the definition of 'Worship' above.

NB: Worship is not EXCLUSIVE to God, men worship other gods, Satan and Angels (Colossians 2:18). Worshipping the latter does not mean they are Almighty God, does it?





Lol, you quoted from RSV but you omitted the footnote attached to the bold section above. That footnote read thus: "or of OUR GOD and THE SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST". Compare this footnote and KJV "....through the righteousness of GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST"

Compare other translation too: The point is, that verse speaks of two distinct entity- 1) God 2) The Saviour; They are not one and the same I you suggested in your post.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though Jesus is a God, he is not the Almighty God. He said so himself- Read Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said, why did you call me good? No one is good BUT GOD ALONE" compare Matthew 19:17

Q: Who did Jesus say is worthy to be called "good"?

A: God.

Q: if Jesus is God why would he reject being called "good" or is he a bad God?

A: Because Jesus is not the Almighty God who is worthy of such title-"Good"

Note: Jesus did not differentiate the one who he called God from any other type of Gods.

Read John 20:17 :

Q: Jesus could have said, I am going to your Father and your God but he choose to include himself among those who has a personal God they worship?

A: Because he wish to emphasize the fact that he SHARE the SAME FATHER and GOD with all his disciples. He wanted Mary to convey this important information to his disciples.

Q: Did Jesus Worship another God different from himself?

A: Yes, John 4:22 "You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; WE (Jews including Jesus) worship what we know for Salvation is from the Jews".

Q: Who was the God that both Jews and Samaritans claim to worship in jerusalem and mountain respectively?

A: John 4:21,23,24 - The Father, for God IS a SPIRIT and Jesus was flesh.

Q: Jews worshipped God in the tabernacle, temple and later synague (House of God during different Era -Mark 2:26) - Which God owns the Synague?

A) Jesus said "My Father's house"- Luke 2:49; John 2:17 " His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for YOUR house will consume me"; John 14: 2 "In my Father's house"; Revelation 3:12 "Temple of MY GOD"

Q: Why did Jesus use the word ALSO in (John 14: 1- "Let not your heart be troubled, BELIEVE IN GOD, Believe ALSO in ME" if he is part of God or he his Almighty God himself?

A: Because he his different from the God of the Isrealite- The Almighty God whom Jesus also worship via PRAYERS.

When people what to twist the Bible they start talking about the original Greek and Hebrew word.
Now let's look at other version:
"I, Simon Peter, am a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. I write this to you whose experience with God is as life-changing as ours, all due to our God's straight dealing and the intervention of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (MSG)

"From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ—

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:" (GNT)

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:" (NASV)

"SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (AMP)

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" (NIV)

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (ESV)

"This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.

I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior." (NLT)

"Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ:

To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousnesse of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." (HCSB)

"1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (NKJV).

I'm tire, should I still get more versions? Or are you saying all those versions are wrong?

CANTICLES:


" OUR GOD" , who is the God of the first century christians ? , " FOR US , there is one God, The Father" 1 Cor 8:5,6

This fact would have been clear to you if u would compare different translations and see the truth of that verse . Verse 2 would have even help u but ur fabricated state of mind wont let u examine the surroundin verses .

Okay let's see other versions:
"I, Simon Peter, am a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. I write this to you whose experience with God is as life-changing as ours, all due to our God's straight dealing and the intervention of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (MSG)

"From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ—

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:" (GNT)

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:" (NASV)

"SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (AMP)

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" (NIV)

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (ESV)

"This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.

I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior." (NLT)

"Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ:

To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousnesse of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." (HCSB)

"1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (NKJV).

So are all these Bible versions incorrect? Or do you need more English lectures?

Issue on the arch angel continued.
(2)
Now let's go back to Daniel. After making the first reference to Michael ( Da 10:13), recorded a prophecy
reaching down to “the time of the end” ( Da 11:40) and then stated: “And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of Daniel’s people.” ( Da 12:1)
Pls note, Michael’s ‘standing up’ was to be associated with “a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.” ( Da 12:1)
In Daniel’s prophecy, ‘standing up’ frequently refers to the action of a king, either taking up his royal power or acting effectively in his capacity as king.

Daniel 11:2-4:
King James Bible
And now will I shew thee the
truth. Behold, there shall stand
up yet three kings in Persia;
and the fourth shall be far
richer than they all: and by his
strength through his riches he
shall stir up all against the
realm of Grecia.
And a mighty king shall stand
up, that shall rule with great
dominion, and do according to
his will.
And when he shall stand up,
his kingdom shall be broken,
and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked uph.

Daniel 11:7:
King James Bible
But out of a branch of her
roots shall one stand up in his
estate, which shall come with
an army, and shall enter into
the fortress of the king of the
north, and shall deal against
them, and shall prevail:, even for others beside those.

Daniel 11:16:
King James Bible
But he that cometh against him
shall do according to his own
will, and none shall stand
before him: and he shall stand
in the glorious land, which by
his hand shall be consumed.
(Also pls read verse 20, 21)

since Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed King, commissioned to destroy all the nations at Har–Magedon. — Re 11:15; 16:14-16,and the book of Revelation 12:7, 10, 12 specifically mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God’s
Kingdom and links this event
with trouble for the earth: “And
war broke out in heaven:
Michael and his angels battled
with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them!
Woe for the earth and for the
sea.’”

Jesus Christ is later
depicted as leading the
heavenly armies in war against
the nations of the earth. ( Re
19:11-16) This would mean a
period of distress for them,
which would logically be
included in the “time of distress” that is associated with Michael’s standing up. ( Da 12:1) Since the Son of God is to fight the nations, it is only reasonable that he was the one who with his angels earlier battled against the superhuman dragon, Satan the
Devil, and his angels.

to be continued ......

Hiswordxray:

Okay let's see other versions:
"I, Simon Peter, am a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. I write this to you whose experience with God is as life-changing as ours, all due to our God's straight dealing and the intervention of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (MSG)

"From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ—

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:" (GNT)

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:" (NASV)

"SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (AMP)

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" (NIV)

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (ESV)

"This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.

I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior." (NLT)

"Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ:

To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousnesse of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." (HCSB)

"1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (NKJV).

So are all these Bible versions incorrect? Or do you need more English lectures?

Those translations are incorrect , THEY STRONGLY CONTRADICT 1 cor 8:6 wich says OUR ONE GOD is the Father from whom all things came . Some translations try to be honest in their renderings ... Here are few of them

King James Bible
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Saviour Jesus Christ

King James 2000 Bible
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Savior Jesus Christ

American King James Version
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Savior Jesus Christ

American Standard Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of
Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained
A like precious faith with us in the
Righteousness of our God and
The saviour Jesus Christ

Webster's Bible Translation
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Savior Jesus Christ:

Hiswordxray:

Kiss and worship is different. When a woman came and kiss Jesus feet, the Bible didn't say she worshiped him but clearly state that she kiss his feet.
Simply show me were in the Bible that it is stated that a messenger of God is worshipped and he didn't condemn them from worshipping him (a verse where the word worship is used and not kiss).

Consider the parable Jesus gave of the slave who was unable to repay a substantial sum of money to his master. A form of this Greek word appears in this
Parable , and in translating it the King James Version and many other versions
says that “the servant therefore fell down, and
worshipped [form of pro·sky·neʹo] him [the king],
Saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee All.” (Matthew 18:26; italics mine.)

Was this man
committing an idolatrous act? Not at all! He was merely
expressing the kind of reverence and respect due the King, his master and superior.

Hiswordxray:

When people what to twist the Bible they start talking about the original Greek and Hebrew word.
Now let's look at other version:
"I, Simon Peter, am a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. I write this to you whose experience with God is as life-changing as ours, all due to our God's straight dealing and the intervention of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (MSG)

"From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ—

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:" (GNT)

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:" (NASV)

"SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (AMP)

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" (NIV)

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (ESV)

"This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.

I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior." (NLT)

"Simeon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ:

To those who have obtained a faith of equal privilege with ours through the righteousnesse of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." (HCSB)

"1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (NKJV).

I'm tire, should I still get more versions? Or are you saying all those versions are wrong?

I was expecting a Greek to English interlinear translation of that verse but I saw none.

With the exception of the Amplified Bible; Did you bother to read the footnotes of those other translation you quoted above?

NB: Amplified bible made a lot of mistakes in their translation.

Identity of God revealed:

Jesus disciples view: Acts 5:30,31 "The God of our Fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him (Jesus) hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and Saviour......" [Jesus is seperate from the National God of the Isrealites]

Peter's view: Acts 10:38 " How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with Power.....for God was with Him" [its illogical for God to anoint himself- proving Jesus is seperate from Almighty God]

Pauls view: 1 corinthians 3:23 " and ye are christ's and christ is God's" ; Colossians 1:3 " We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" ; Roman 15:6 "That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God even the Father of our Lord Jesus christ.

John's view: Revelation 1:1,6 " The revelation of Jesus christ which God gave him to shew unto his servants.....and hath made us Kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER......"


Jesus was spirit then flesh then spirit again- each and everytime he has a personal God and Father!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though Jesus is a God, he is not the Almighty God. He said so himself- Read Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said, why did you call me good? No one is good BUT GOD ALONE" compare Matthew 19:17

Q: Who did Jesus say is worthy to be called "good"?

A: God.

Q: if Jesus is God why would he reject being called "good" or is he a bad God?

A: Because Jesus is not the Almighty God who is worthy of such title-"Good"

Note: Jesus did not differentiate the one who he called God from any other type of Gods.

Read John 20:17 :

Q: Jesus could have said, I am going to your Father and your God but he choose to include himself among those who has a personal God they worship?

A: Because he wish to emphasize the fact that he SHARE the SAME FATHER and GOD with all his disciples. He wanted Mary to convey this important information to his disciples.

Q: Did Jesus Worship another God different from himself?

A: Yes, John 4:22 "You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; WE (Jews including Jesus) worship what we know for Salvation is from the Jews".

Q: Who was the God that both Jews and Samaritans claim to worship in jerusalem and mountain respectively?

A: John 4:21,23,24 - The Father, for God IS a SPIRIT and Jesus was flesh.

Q: Jews worshipped God in the tabernacle, temple and later synague (House of God during different Era -Mark 2:26) - Which God owns the Synague?

A) Jesus said "My Father's house"- Luke 2:49; John 2:17 " His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for YOUR house will consume me"; John 14: 2 "In my Father's house"; Revelation 3:12 "Temple of MY GOD"

Q: Why did Jesus use the word ALSO in ( John 14: 1- "Let not your heart be troubled, BELIEVE IN GOD, Believe ALSO in ME" ) if he is part of God or he his Almighty God himself?

A: Because he his different from the God of the Isrealite- The Almighty God whom Jesus also worship via PRAYERS.

CANTICLES:


Those translations are incorrect , THEY STRONGLY CONTRADICT 1 cor 8:6 wich says OUR ONE GOD is the Father from whom all things came . Some translations try to be honest in their renderings ... Here are few of them

King James Bible
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Saviour Jesus Christ

King James 2000 Bible
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Savior Jesus Christ

American King James Version
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Savior Jesus Christ

American Standard Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of
Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained
A like precious faith with us in the
Righteousness of our God and
The saviour Jesus Christ

Webster's Bible Translation
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle
of Jesus Christ, to them that have
obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and
our Savior Jesus Christ:

Those translations are correct but you misunderstood them. Ok let's take the King James Version as a case study:

"1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:" (2Pet 1:1)
If you conclude from this verse the God is different from Jesus and Jesus is not God. Then you also have to conclude from the verses below that God is different from our Father and that God is not our Father.

"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;" (1The 1:3 KJV).

"Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." (1The 1:11 KJV).

So tell me, is God not our Father?

CANTICLES:


Consider the parable Jesus gave of the slave who was unable to repay a substantial sum of money to his master. A form of this Greek word appears in this
Parable , and in translating it the King James Version and many other versions
says that “the servant therefore fell down, and
worshipped [form of pro·sky·neʹo] him [the king],
Saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee All.” (Matthew 18:26; italics mine.)

Was this man
committing an idolatrous act? Not at all! He was merely
expressing the kind of reverence and respect due the King, his master and superior.

Let's compare Matt 29:9 and Matt 18:26 from different versions:
". They ran to tell the disciples. Then Jesus met them, stopping them in their tracks. "Good morning!" he said. They fell to their knees, embraced his feet, and worshiped him." (Matt 28:9 MGS)
""The poor wretch threw himself at the king's feet and begged, 'Give me a chance and I'll pay it all back.'" (Matt 18:26 MGS)

"Suddenly Jesus met them and said, “Peace be with you.” They came up to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him." (Matt 28:9 GNT).
"The servant fell on his knees before the king. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay you everything!’" (Matt 18:26 GNT)

"And as they went, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they ran to him, grasped his feet and, worshiped him. " (Matt 28:9 NLT)
"But the man fell down before his master and begged him, 'Please, be patient with me, and I will pay it all '" (Matt 18:26 NLT)

"9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him." (Matt 28:9 NKJV)
"26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’" (Matt 18:26 NKJV)

"And as they went, behold, Jesus met them and said, Hail (greetings)! And they went up to Him and clasped His feet and worshiped Him." (Matt 28:9 AMP)
"So the attendant fell on his knees, begging him, Have patience with me and I will pay you everything." (Matt 18:26 AMP)

"And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him." (Matt 28:9 NASV)
""So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything." (Matt 18:26 NASV)

A Greek word may have many different meaning but one can correctly translate it by looking at other factors like the words surrounding it, the way it is written etc. Taking a word and trying to interpret it in isolation may be misleading. And you are not a Greek scholar, therefore going into the Greek word can also lead to false conclusions. So let's rely on the expertise of those who translated the Bible. It is better to compare translations or versions.

Hiswordxray:

Those translations are correct but you misunderstood them.

Ok let's take the King James Version as a case study:

"1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:" (2Pet 1:1)
If you conclude from this verse the God is different from Jesus and Jesus is not God. Then you also have to conclude from the verses below that God is different from our Father and that God is not our Father.

2 pet 1:1 says of God AND it mentions the name of the saviour as Jesus Christ .

"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;" (1The 1:3 KJV).

"Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." (1The 1:11 KJV).

So tell me, is God not our Father?

NONE of them says
" God and our Father, Jesus Christ"

BUT 2pet 1:1 says

" of God and our saviour, Jesus Christ" .
God in the context refers to " the God AND FATHER of Jesus" 1pet 1:3 whom christ seat at his right hand , " We always thank God, the Father Of Jesus" Colosian 1:3! That clearly identify the God of the apostles

THEY SIMPLY SAID :

" God and our Father" ONLY , no need to identfy whom the Father is bcoz THIS STRONGLY AGREE with 1 Cor 8:6 that identifies the One God as our Father .

Unlike 2pet 1:1 where the savour is identified further as Jesus Christ.

LET THIS SCRIPTURE EXPLAIN 2pet 1:1 FOR YOU CLEARLY:


" God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior"
Titus 1:3

CAPTIVATOR:

simply bcoz Mary didnt give birth to God but " a man, Jesus" 1 Tim 2:5 !

Uv Just Exposed ur trinitarian heresy , .. Ur hypocrisy and inconsistency is 1st class , hw wil somone belive Jesus is God , but fail to recognize mary as the mother of God ?

Well that's about as muddled as it gets.

God exists eternally, God existed before Mary, so it's impossible for Mary to give birth to God who has existed forever, Mary gave birth to the Son of God, that's what the bible says
and I have no problem with you saying Jesus is God
He is, He is the Word

johnw74:



Well that's about as muddled as it gets.

God exists eternally, God existed before Mary, so it's impossible for Mary to give birth to God who has existed forever,

Am happy u just denied the trinity doctrine with the above statement .

Mary gave birth to the Son of God , that's what the bible says

Thats the real truth .

and I have no problem with you saying Jesus is God

Am not against that, but my point is that Jesus is never called THE MOST HIGH GOD , do u even know Jesus is under the authority of a Superior God , under the authority of whom he will subject himself forever ?

CANTICLES:


2 pet 1:1 says of God AND it mentions the name of the saviour as Jesus Christ .


NONE of them says
" God and our Father, Jesus Christ"

BUT 2pet 1:1 says

" of God and our saviour, Jesus Christ" .
God in the context refers to " the God AND FATHER of Jesus" 1pet 1:3 whom christ seat at his right hand , " We always thank God, the Father Of Jesus" Colosian 1:3! That clearly identify the God of the apostles

THEY SIMPLY SAID :

" God and our Father" ONLY , no need to identfy whom the Father is bcoz THIS STRONGLY AGREE with 1 Cor 8:6 that identifies the One God as our Father .

Unlike 2pet 1:1 where the savour is identified further as Jesus Christ.

LET THIS SCRIPTURE EXPLAIN 2pet 1:1 FOR YOU CLEARLY:


" God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior"
Titus 1:3

I can see you have low IQ.
"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;" (1The 1:3 KJV).

"Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." (1The 1:11 KJV).

My question is, can you conclude from those verses that God is different from our Father and God is not our Father?

RikoduoSennin:
Identity of God revealed:

Jesus disciples view: Acts 5:30,31 "The God of our Fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him (Jesus) hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and Saviour......" [Jesus is seperate from the National God of the Isrealites]

Peter's view: Acts 10:38 " How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with Power.....for God was with Him" [its illogical for God to anoint himself- proving Jesus is seperate from Almighty God]

Pauls view: 1 corinthians 3:23 " and ye are christ's and christ is God's" ; Colossians 1:3 " We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" ; Roman 15:6 "That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God even the Father of our Lord Jesus christ.

John's view: Revelation 1:1,6 " The revelation of Jesus christ which God gave him to shew unto his servants.....and hath made us Kings and priests unto GOD AND HIS FATHER......"


Jesus was spirit then flesh then spirit again- each and everytime he has a personal God and Father!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though Jesus is a God, he is not the Almighty God. He said so himself- Read Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said, why did you call me good? No one is good BUT GOD ALONE" compare Matthew 19:17

Q: Who did Jesus say is worthy to be called "good"?

A: God.

Q: if Jesus is God why would he reject being called "good" or is he a bad God?

A: Because Jesus is not the Almighty God who is worthy of such title-"Good"

Note: Jesus did not differentiate the one who he called God from any other type of Gods.

Read John 20:17 :

Q: Jesus could have said, I am going to your Father and your God but he choose to include himself among those who has a personal God they worship?

A: Because he wish to emphasize the fact that he SHARE the SAME FATHER and GOD with all his disciples. He wanted Mary to convey this important information to his disciples.

Q: Did Jesus Worship another God different from himself?

A: Yes, John 4:22 "You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; WE (Jews including Jesus) worship what we know for Salvation is from the Jews".

Q: Who was the God that both Jews and Samaritans claim to worship in jerusalem and mountain respectively?

A: John 4:21,23,24 - The Father, for God IS a SPIRIT and Jesus was flesh.

Q: Jews worshipped God in the tabernacle, temple and later synague (House of God during different Era -Mark 2:26) - Which God owns the Synague?

A) Jesus said "My Father's house"- Luke 2:49; John 2:17 " His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for YOUR house will consume me"; John 14: 2 "In my Father's house"; Revelation 3:12 "Temple of MY GOD"

Q: Why did Jesus use the word ALSO in ( John 14: 1- "Let not your heart be troubled, BELIEVE IN GOD, Believe ALSO in ME" ) if he is part of God or he his Almighty God himself?

A: Because he his different from the God of the Isrealite- The Almighty God whom Jesus also worship via PRAYERS.

Stop making noise and explain this verse for me:
" Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2Petb1:1 NKJV).

Hiswordxray:

I can see you have low IQ

That statement above shows u are not a Christian ! No wonder scripture said a person should avoid questions of people like u "turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fight" 2tim 2:23
Canticles should note this.

"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;" (1The 1:3 KJV).

"Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." (1The 1:11 KJV).

My question is, can you conclude from those verses that God is different from our Father and God is not our Father?

( 1the 3:11 NOT 1the 1:11
YES, I can conclude from such corrupt translation that God is different from our father , that grammaticar structure suggest such ! Thats why I will go for a A GOOD TRANSLATION " Our God and Father" ! Is this not clear to the reader ?

Hiswordxray:

Stop making noise and explain this verse for me:

Pray for self control

" Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2Petb1:1 NKJV).

Some versions like u quoted says " Our God and Savior Jesus Christ" .

Some others say " our God and the saviour, Jesus Christ"

WHICH OF THESE TRANSLATION AGREES with 2pet 1:2 ? Thats the correct one .

CAPTIVATOR:

That statement above shows u are not a Christian ! No wonder scripture said a person should avoid questions of people like u "turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fight" 2tim 2:23
Canticles should note this.

Scheme of running away from the truth. All I've said I said in love. Just because a mother beet her Child doesn't mean she does not love her. I'm saying these hatch words to wake you up. Don't run away but let us discover the truth together.

CAPTIVATOR:


YES, I can conclude from such corrupt translation that God is different from our father , that grammaticar structure suggest such ! Thats why I will go for a A GOOD TRANSLATION " Our God and Father" ! Is this not clear to the reader ?

Thank you for this statement.
The translation that made this unclear statement is the King James Version which your JW brothers prefer to accept because it stated in 2Pet 1:1 "God and our saviour Jesus". But they ignore that this same translation also stated "God and our Father" in 1The 1:3 implying that God is different from our Father.

This is the reason why I choose a better translations that stated "our God and Father" in 1The 1:3. And it so happens that this better translation stated in 2Pet 1:1 "our God and Saviour Jesus" implying that Jesus is both our God and Saviour.

So tell me, do you think this better translation is incorrect and the unclear translation is correct just because it seem to agree with your doctrine?

Hiswordxray

Thank you for this statement.
The translation that made this unclear statement is the King James Version which your JW brothers prefer to accept because it stated in 2Pet 1:1 "God and our saviour Jesus". But they ignore that this same translation also stated "God and our Father" in 1The 1:3 implying that God is different from our Father.

This is the reason why I choose a better translations that stated "our God and Father" in 1The 1:3. And it so happens that this better translation stated in 2Pet 1:1 "our God and Saviour Jesus" implying that Jesus is both our God and Saviour.

So tell me, do you think this better translation is incorrect and the unclear translation is correct just because

Just like the beroans, I examine surrounding scriptures to see if what this translation tells me is correct

Check my comment to you written at 3:35pm , it explains the biblical basis for choosin the correct translation of 2pet 1:1 .

Hiswordxray:

Stop making noise and explain this verse for me:
" Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2Petb1:1 NKJV).

It pains me to see u state that bible verses quoted and explained are all noise to you. Thought you were a bible student .
Several bible verses which tell us directly and explicitely, without need for indept study ,the relationship between God and jesus have been quoted. Yet you refuse to look at them or explain ur own view of what does verses are saying .

Several verses where jesus said the father is his God have been revealed to you , but you call it noise.

Several verses where it was said that jesus is subjected to the father, subjected to God , does not is will but the will of the father , that the father sent him to come and save us have been revealed to you, yet you hold on to doctrines that God warned the isrealite about.

Several verses showing you that God and jesus are two seperate persons, one is always sitting on the throne and the other sitting or standing at its right hand are in the bible, yet you dnt read it or quote it.

Several verses where jesus said he was told to do this or that, he has been giving power , he was anointed, he was filled with holy spirit, he has been giving authority, he worships and serves his father, we are his brothers , he has companions/ fellows are everywhere in the scriptures , yet you believe he is almighty God.

Not one verse that explicitely states that jesus is God .
Not one verse that explicitely says jesus and God have same authority.

You now try to hold on to ur explanation of 2pet 1:1 when several translations says otherwise, when several others explain in their footnotes what that place is saying .

When verse 2 explains that the God and jesus he was talking about in verse 1 are two seperate persons .

When verse 8 and 11 explains better on who jesus is , that he is our lord , that he is our savior through the directive and command of his God and our God , the father.(read acts 5:31)
Me I tire o! . But I no go tire , will continue to show everyoone what the bible is really saying

dolphinheart:


It pains me to see u state that bible verses quoted and explained are all noise to you. Thought you were a bible student .
Several bible verses which tell us directly and explicitely, without need for indept study ,the relationship between God and jesus have been quoted. Yet you refuse to look at them or explain ur own view of what does verses are saying .

Several verses where jesus said the father is his God have been revealed to you , but you call it noise.

Several verses where it was said that jesus is subjected to the father, subjected to God , does not is will but the will of the father , that the father sent him to come and save us have been revealed to you, yet you hold on to doctrines that God warned the isrealite about.

Several verses showing you that God and jesus are two seperate persons, one is always sitting on the throne and the other sitting or standing at its right hand are in the bible, yet you dnt read it or quote it.

Several verses where jesus said he was told to do this or that, he has been giving power , he was anointed, he was filled with holy spirit, he has been giving authority, he worships and serves his father, we are his brothers , he has companions/ fellows are everywhere in the scriptures , yet you believe he is almighty God.

Not one verse that explicitely states that jesus is God .
Not one verse that explicitely says jesus and God have same authority.

You now try to hold on to ur explanation of 2pet 1:1 when several translations says otherwise, when several others explain in their footnotes what that place is saying .

When verse 2 explains that the God and jesus he was talking about in verse 1 are two seperate persons .

When verse 8 and 11 explains better on who jesus is , that he is our lord , that he is our savior through the directive and command of his God and our God , the father.(read acts 5:31)
Me I tire o! . But I no go tire , will continue to show everyoone what the bible is really saying

What about when I showed you that we are spirit living in a body, do you accept? even though you stated by yourself that we exist in this body i.e we are not this body. Now you come here to play innocent when you know you are guilty of not accepting correct Biblical explanations.

CAPTIVATOR:

Just like the beroans, I examine surrounding scriptures to see if what this translation tells me is correct

Check my comment to you written at 3:35pm , it explains the biblical basis for choosin the correct translation of 2pet 1:1 .

OK, seeing that KJV is not correct in 1The 1:3 why do you choose to accept it in 2Pet 1:1 when both statement are almost similar.

Don't tell me you are looking for the correct Bible translation. You are not concerned about the truth. You only care about your doctrine.

Hiswordxray:

What about when I showed you that we are spirit living in a body, do you accept? even though you stated by yourself that we exist in this body i.e we are not this body. Now you come here to play innocent when you know you are guilty of not accepting correct Biblical explanations.

Sir, are you a politician? Why are you changing the direction of discussion .

I will reply this post so that others might not think you re telling the truth.

1.Pls can you post the bible verse you showed me that stated that " we are spirits living in a body " , or where I said " we are spirits living in a body"?

2. What do you understand by the statement " adam became a living soul" ?

3. Did our creature , who knows what we really are ever say "man is flesh" several times in the bible ?

4.where did our creature tell adam he came from and were did he tell him he will return to?

5.did the bible ever say that man and animals have the same spirit and same eventuality ?

6. did the bible ever say that " man(the person himself) goes to the ground when his spirit leaves him?

7. Most importantly, if its true that man is a spirit being housed in a body , when did you (the spirit) enter the house. at birth, conception, embryonic stage or when you where still spermatozoa .?

8. If you feel that I refused to accept your biblical statement in another thread, does that give you the moral justification not to accept biblical statements on these thread?does the outcome of that thread affect the outcome of these thread?will me believing what u said on that thread affect your believing what was said on these thread? If the answer is no, then why did you bring the issue up, while still not answering the questions posted on these thread or while still not accepting the biblical explanation posted on these thread .

Ur truthful answers to those questions will help us to know if you are telling the truth or not.

CAPTIVATOR:

Am happy u just denied the trinity doctrine with the above statement .

That is delusion,
Mary didn't give birth to God
she gave birth to His human body
God already existed

If you wasn't told what to believe and what to say
you might be able to think for yourself

Thats the real truth .

All of the Bible is the real Truth.

Am not against that,

you are not against calling Jesus God because you believe Jesus is a false god
there is only One True God
that makes angels, humans etc. false gods
and before you start shouting that Jesus then is a false God
I have to add here that Jesus was not Just human but He was also the Word of God

but my point is that Jesus is never called THE MOST HIGH GOD ,

with Jesus being the Word and the Word being God
then the Word and God-Jesus and God, is the most High God, God is One God

do u even know Jesus is under the authority of a Superior God , under the authority of whom he will subject himself forever ?

God cannot be superior to Himself

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

verse 6, the Word looked like God, and He was equal to God, He was God

God stripped Himself of all Glory and became man
God the Word became flesh
and the Word put Himself under God-the Fathers authority
he did this Awesome thing so that mankind can be saved through His sacrifice
He of course is still God
the Word of God didn't cease to exist when He became man

Rev_19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

There is no Lord above LORD OF LORDS
He is Almighty God, KING OF KINGS, and Lord of Lords.
God and the Word is He.

johnw74:


Mary didn't give birth to God

Confirmed again

You are not against calling Jesus God
There is only One True God
that makes angels, humans etc. false gods
and before you start shouting that Jesus then is a false God
I have to add here that Jesus was not Just human but He was also the Word of God

ONLY the father is called " ONLY true God" !

-
SHOW me where Jesus is called " the only true God" ?

with Jesus being the Word and the Word being God
then the Word and God-Jesus and God, is the most High God, God is One G

ONLY the Father, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is called " MOST HIGH GOD" psalm 83:18

- pls, show me where Jesus is called " Most High God" ? NOWHERE.

God cannot be superior to Himself

U are confuse who told u Jesus dont hav a superior, do u even understand 1cor 11:3 " God is the head of Christ" ?



""

dolphinheart:


Sir, are you a politician? Why are you changing the direction of discussion .

I will reply this post so that others might not think you re telling the truth.

1.Pls can you post the bible verse you showed me that stated that " we are spirits living in a body " , or where I said " we are spirits living in a body"?

2. What do you understand by the statement " adam became a living soul" ?

3. Did our creature , who knows what we really are ever say "man is flesh" several times in the bible ?

4.where did our creature tell adam he came from and were did he tell him he will return to?

5.did the bible ever say that man and animals have the same spirit and same eventuality ?

6. did the bible ever say that " man(the person himself) goes to the ground when his spirit leaves him?

7. Most importantly, if its true that man is a spirit being housed in a body , when did you (the spirit) enter the house. at birth, conception, embryonic stage or when you where still spermatozoa .?

8. If you feel that I refused to accept your biblical statement in another thread, does that give you the moral justification not to accept biblical statements on these thread?does the outcome of that thread affect the outcome of these thread?will me believing what u said on that thread affect your believing what was said on these thread? If the answer is no, then why did you bring the issue up, while still not answering the questions posted on these thread or while still not accepting the biblical explanation posted on these thread .

Ur truthful answers to those questions will help us to know if you are telling the truth or not.

I simply imply the principle that Jesus stated "Let he without sin be the first to cast the stone".
You are accusing me of not accepting sound Biblical explanations (we I didn't do) and I simply reminded you that you've committed the same sin you are accusing me of.

And don't try to denial it because you clearly stated that "we exist in this body" meaning that we are not this body but a different being the live in a body.

Now look at CAPTIVATOR and CANTICLES avoiding me.
This is how they avoid the truth yet they claim they are truthfully following the Bible.