Scholar8200:
Consider the unusual state of creatures when they are under preternatural influences just like the bears that were actually stirred by the same forces after the curse was declared:
1. Acts 19:14 Seven sons of Sceva, a leading priest, were doing this. 15 But one time when they tried it, the evil spirit replied, “I know Jesus, and I know Paul, but who are you?” 16 Then the man with the evil spirit leaped on them, overpowered them, and attacked them with such violence that they fled from the house, naked and battered.
This is one man (under preternatural influence) against 7 full grown men.

2. Luke 8:33
Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

And so the bears acting under preternatural influences had the speed of light that enabled them get 42, how come they never got all of them then or are the other boys not under the curse too?

It is very clear that 42boys wouldn't stick around for some bears to maul them, in fact a commotion will even make things harder for the bears as the boys would all scatter in different directions.

For one man overpowering 7, am sure the verse never said he overpowered 42 or mauled them. . . Just escaped them and fled the house. . How would you reconcile this with 2 bears mauling 42children

johnydon22:


And so the bears acting under preternatural influences had the speed of light that enabled them get 42, how come they never got all of them then or are the other boys not under the curse too?

It is very clear that 42boys wouldn't stick around for some bears to maul them, in fact a commotion will even make things harder for the bears as the boys would all scatter in different directions.

For one man overpowering 7, am sure the verse never said he overpowered 42 or mauled them. . . Just escaped them and fled the house. . How would you reconcile this with 2 bears mauling 42children

He did not maul them; he overwhelmed them. Note the violence displayed by the two examples given. The stones and natural strength of animals exceed that of man how much more when preternatural influences are involved.

Scholar8200:
He did not maul them; he overwhelmed them. Note the violence displayed by the two examples given. The stones and natural strength of animals exceed that of man how much more when preternatural influences are involved.

Wikipedia gives a sample of what a breed of bear (in its natural but aggressive state) did. I am not saying the same breed was involved but at least the animal involved was also a bear:

In some areas of India and Burma, sloth bears are more feared than tigers, due to their unpredictable temperament.... One specimen, known as the Sloth bear of Mysore, was single-handedly responsible for the deaths of 12 people and the mutilation of 2 dozen others before being shot by Kenneth Anderson....They typically charge on all fours with their head held low, before rearing on their hind legs and striking at their attackers with their claws and teeth.

One bear killed 12 and mutilated 24!

So i just read about the sloth bear and it never told us if the attack happened in one single strike. . . it never stipulated if the attacks happened through out the duration of it's life before it was finally shot by Kenneth Anderson...

Now the elisha bears mauled 42 boys dead in one single fatal strike (event) that is 21boys for each bear? And someone believe this? Like WTF

Scholar8200:
He did not maul them; he overwhelmed them. Note the violence displayed by the two examples given. The stones and natural strength of animals exceed that of man how much more when preternatural influences are involved.

Lmao... And a scenario were 1man overpowered and escaped from 7 men, who doesnt see that shiit everyday. is now likened to one were 42boys are being mauled by just 2bears who supposedly acting under the influence of preternatural ability that somehow made them superspeed enough to maul down 42boys, and the boy was supposed have stood there and watched?. . .

For crying out loud their is no way these boys would have stood there and watched, how exactly can 2 bears tie down 42boys from escaping them.

Scholar8200 you really shows your depth of the scripture and knowledge about God as Johnydon22 and theatheist101 are looking at God's working principle literarily;God sometimes work in a way that is beyond human comprehension take the case of of israelites walking on a dry land in the red sea and Jesus walking on the sea! It is the holy spirit that explains God's way to human hence he said in John4:23-24 that those that will worship him will does so in spirit and the truth. So his way is not man way,hence some things look impossible before man but easily possible with God.

^^^ Dude above me OYAY.. Yeah those mythologies; Sea dividing, Jesus walking on water, muhammed splitting the moon, hercules helping atlas hold up the earth. that is what we don't exactly believe. . . Tho we recognize they are all colourful interesting mythologies from a very imaginative mind. .

johnydon22:


Lmao... And a scenario were 1man overpowered and escaped from 7 men, who doesnt see that shiit everyday

It was the 7 men , not the possessed man, that ran away naked after being dealt with by the possessed man.

johnydon22:


Lmao... And a scenario were 1man overpowered and escaped from 7 men, who doesnt see that shiit everyday. is now likened to one were 42boys are being mauled by just 2bears who supposedly acting under the influence of preternatural ability that somehow made them superspeed enough to maul down 42boys, and the boy was supposed have stood there and watched?. . .

For crying out loud their is no way these boys would have stood there and watched, how exactly can 2 bears tie down 42boys from escaping them.

On the contrary, the seven men fled unclad from the possessed man who had overpowered them.

Scholar8200:

It was the 7 men , not the possessed man, that ran away naked after being dealt with by the possessed man.

Ok a possessed man over powered 7 guys and that you think is unnatural?
lol... it practically happens.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfkE4EKNbwk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9AYKXkTFB0&itct=CAYQpDAYCiITCP3f2pP95MUCFYRIGAodVRcA6DIHcmVsYXRlZEiJ3rWUhJzB_M0B&hl=en&gl=NG&client=mv-google


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny9f_uxE48w&itct=CBsQpDAYAyITCOTF8r_95MUCFcSnHAodxzoAUjIHcmVsYXRlZEidqMzIl4WG6Hs%3D&gl=NG&client=mv-google&hl=en


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9AYKXkTFB0&itct=CBUQpDAYBSITCO7Rpdv95MUCFURkHAodNPsA9DIHcmVsYXRlZEjMx5Pi7v_Xl58B&client=mv-google&hl=en&gl=NG


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTnh8EYmb80&itct=CCEQpDAYASITCNDSiu795MUCFYmHGAodrEEAtDIHcmVsYXRlZEidqMzIl4WG6Hs%3D&client=mv-google&hl=en&gl=NG

All these are scenarios of one man beating up many. . . Their is nothing preternatural about them like you would have us think, these are rare but yet common occurrences.

johnydon22:


So i just read about the sloth bear and it never told us if the attack happened in one single strike. . . it never stipulated if the attacks happened through out the duration of it's life before it was finally shot by Kenneth Anderson...

Now the elisha bears mauled 42 boys dead in one single fatal strike (event) that is 21boys for each bear? And someone believe this? Like WTF

I removed the Sloth bear story since the timing was not specified.

OYAY:
Scholar8200 you really shows your depth of the scripture and knowledge about God as Johnydon22 and theatheist101 are looking at God's working principle literarily;God sometimes work in a way that is beyond human comprehension take the case of of israelites walking on a dry land in the red sea and Jesus walking on the sea! It is the holy spirit that explains God's way to human hence he said in John4:23-24 that those that will worship him will does so in spirit and the truth. So his way is not man way,hence some things look impossible before man but easily possible with God.

Thanks for your input.

Scholar8200:
I removed the Sloth bear story since the timing was not specified.

Good then, yet again it still boils down to the possibility of 2bears mauling 42boys in a single strike. . which you have failed to substantiate or demonstrate to us how plausible this can be.

Anybody dat believes in a talking snake, a loquacious donkey, a virgin giving birth .... heck, a horde of dead folks rising up and parading d street could believe anything!

OYAY:
Scholar8200 you really shows your depth of the scripture and knowledge about God as Johnydon22 and theatheist101 are looking at God's working principle literarily;God sometimes work in a way that is beyond human comprehension take the case of of israelites walking on a dry land in the red sea and Jesus walking on the sea! It is the holy spirit that explains God's way to human hence he said in John4:23-24 that those that will worship him will does so in spirit and the truth. So his way is not man way,hence some things look impossible before man but easily possible with God.

It's all part of the lies the Jews wrote to scare their enemies!

Scholar8200:
.

Sorry, I forgot you believe that a snake can talk, that Moses parted the Red Sea (!) with a stick, the same Moses used his stick to break a rock, and that the death of someone can cleanse you of your atrocities. Why wouldn't you believe two bears with an average speed of 30 mph can kill 42 young boys with an average speed of 14 mph each . I wouldn't want to waste my time writing mathematical proofs to someone who has no regards for empirical reasoning.

Stoning from over 42 children would kill these bears! The smallest of stones would inflict a damaging injury on these animals. But, yet again, you would claim god must have given these bears supernatural power to withstand the impacts from the stones. Then, I wonder why god/Elisha didn't just kill these kids directly without troubling his "super-bears". Note: The higher the number of boys the lesser the chance of these bears to come out of the attack alive.

theAtheist101:


Sorry, I forgot you believe that a snake can talk, that Moses parted the Red Sea (!) with a stick, the same Moses used his stick to break a rock, and that the death of someone can cleanse you of your atrocities. Why wouldn't you believe two bears with an average speed of 30 mph can kill 42 young boys with an average speed of 14 mph each . I wouldn't want to waste my time writing mathematical proofs to someone who has no regards for empirical reasoning.

Stoning from over 42 children would kill these bears! The smallest of stones would inflict a damaging injury on these animals. But, yet again, you would claim god must have given these bears supernatural power to withstand the impacts from the stones. Then, I wonder why god/Elisha didn't just kill these kids directly without troubling his "super-bears". Note: The higher the number of boys the lesser the chance of these bears to come out of the attack alive.

Alright.

theAtheist101:


Sorry, I forgot you believe that a snake can talk, that Moses parted the Red Sea (!) with a stick, the same Moses used his stick to break a rock, and that the death of someone can cleanse you of your atrocities. Why wouldn't you believe two bears with an average speed of 30 mph can kill 42 young boys with an average speed of 14 mph each . I wouldn't want to waste my time writing mathematical proofs to someone who has no regards for empirical reasoning.

Stoning from over 42 children would kill these bears! The smallest of stones would inflict a damaging injury on these animals. But, yet again, you would claim god must have given these bears supernatural power to withstand the impacts from the stones. Then, I wonder why god/Elisha didn't just kill these kids directly without troubling his "super-bears". Note: The higher the number of boys the lesser the chance of these bears to come out of the attack alive.

You really don't understand what a curse is; that's why you think it is impossible for a curse to make just two bears kill 42 people. A curse is the opposite of a blessing.

What is a blessing? To be blessed is to be supernaturally empowered to prosper. When you're blessed, everything (physical, spiritual, natural and material) is supernaturally empowered to work for you and help you prosper.

Now, the exact opposite is the meaning of a curse. A curse is when everything is supernaturally empowered to work against you or make you fail.

Remember how an angel removed the wheels of the Chariot of the armies of Pharoah, so that they could not run out of the sea that was about closing up on them. (Exodus 14v24-25). Those are how a curse works against someone.

If the children are under an active curse, they can't escape from the bears even if they tried; and they can't fight them even if they tried.

The curse could keep them tripping over a stone that is not there. The spirit of fear could possess the kids and make them freeze. Not to talk of the bears too being possessed with strange speed to chase after the kids or strange strenght to kill with a single blow or any other thing.

Trust me; under a curse from someone like Elisha; a prophet with the double portion of the spirit of Elijah, even a lizard can maul a human being like a grown crocodile.

That's why it is a curse. It is not ordinary. Something is being supernaturally empowered to make you fail. Everything comes together to work against you with supernatural assistance.

You're trying to rationalize the supernatural effect of a curse using scientific empirical methods. That will only make you go in circles and then you will conclude that the incident is a myth and can't be true.

A curse is supernatural. To be cursed is for things to be supernaturally empowered to work against you. When you understand that; you will understand that a curse can make 2 bears kill 42 lads easily -especially a curse from someone whose authority is from God.

God bless.

ayoku777:


You really don't understand what a curse is; that's why you think it is impossible for a curse to make just two bears kill 42 people. A curse is the opposite of a blessing.

What is a blessing? To be blessed is to be supernaturally empowered to prosper. When you're blessed, everything (physical, spiritual, natural and material) is supernaturally empowered to work for you and help you prosper.

Now, the exact opposite is the meaning of a curse. A curse is when everything is supernaturally empowered to work against you or make you fail.

Remember how an angel removed the wheels of the Chariot of the armies of Pharoah, so that they could not run out of the sea that was about closing up on them. (Exodus 14v24-25). Those are how a curse works against someone.

If the children are under an active curse, they can't escape from the bears even if they tried; and they can't fight them even if they tried.

The curse could keep them tripping over a stone that is not there. The spirit of fear could possess the kids and make them freeze. Not to talk of the bears too being possessed with strange speed to chase after the kids or strange strenght to kill with a single blow or any other thing.

Trust me; under a curse from someone like Elisha; a prophet with the double portion of the spirit of Elijah, even a lizard can maul a human being like a grown crocodile.

That's why it is a curse. It is not ordinary. Something is being supernaturally empowered to make you fail. Everything comes together to work against you with supernatural assistance.

You're trying to rationalize the supernatural effect of a curse using scientific empirical methods. That will only make you go in circles and then you will conclude that the incident is a myth and can't be true.

A curse is supernatural. To be cursed is for things to be supernaturally empowered to work against you. When you understand that; you will understand that a curse can make 2 bears kill 42 lads easily -especially a curse from someone whose authority is from God.

God bless.

No no! You are very wrong! It was actually the boys that cursed Elisha to be illusive. Remember that god loves children, so he gave them that power to deceive that wicked man people called Elisha. Elisha then went to recount his false vision. The reason Elisha couldn't recollect the actual number of boys that mocked him was because the curse was still active. That actually how curses were designed by Yakunde (the God of the Multiverse!).

Everything we both wrote is fallacy! Do a qualitative experiment on the workings of curses, then we would take you seriously.

Lucifer bless!

Scholar8200:


Please carefully consider the text you quoted. It doesnt say God killed them. But at a period under the law,the command was,
Leviticus 19:32 You shall rise up before the hoary head and honor the face of the old man and [reverently] fear your God. I am the Lord.
The lads were not infants nor toddlers
23 He went up from Jericho to Bethel. On the way, [a]young [maturing and accountable] boys came out of the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up [in a whirlwind], you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!

Elisha lived under the law (when hardness of heart was provided for) hence he, like other OT saints, replied with a curse which took effect immediately. The lads knew better and had violated the law. Hence Elisha used his authority.

In the NT, hardness of heart has no place (hence Stephen still sought forgiveness for his killers)

Well said.

OLAADEGBU:


Well said.

Glory to God and Father of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

Scholar8200:


Glory to God and Father of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

Amen! I still insist that it was God that killed the 42 lads not Elisha.

ayoku777:


God didn't kill them, Elisha did.

Don't judge the character of God by all the actions of His prophets.

1Cor 14v32 says; ...the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Meaning God gives His prophets some autonomy in the use of His authority. Meaning it is not everything a prophet does with his God-given authority that reflects the character of God in that situation.

When God gives you power and the authority to use His name with results, what you do will have results; even so that doesn't mean that what you did reflects the character of God. No it reflects the character of the prophet.

That's why there is a difference between the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit. You can have the gifts without the fruit. Gifts are given, fruits are grown. Not every prophet who had the gifts of the Spirit walked in it in proportionate measure of the fruit of the Spirit.

God told Moses to speak to the rock so water will come out. Moses in anger hit the rock with his staff (the symbol of his authority) and the water still gushed out. (Numbers 20v8-11)

Meaning a prophet can use the authority God gave Him in a wrong attitude and it will still have results. Yet that doesn't reflect the character of God. God was very displeased with Moses. (Numbers 20v12)

Elijah also called down fire at will on anyone who opposed him in the name of God. Yet when the disciples of Jesus asked Him to do the same; He rebuked them sharply and in no uncertain terms. (2Kings 1v9-12; Luke 9v54-55)

Jesus Christ is the Word of God; the communication of the character of God. He is the brigthness of God's glory and the express image of His person.

If you want to really know God; look at Him through the life and character of Christ; not just through the lens of everything His prophets did in His name.

The biblical patriachs, prophets, kings and saints did their best; within the limitations of the Adamic nature and of the old covenant. But only Christ embodies the true nature and character of God in man.

Have this context in mind when you read the scriptures.

God bless.

Why did God kill 42 lads merely for saying Elisha was bald? It was God that sent the bears not Elisha. Read the article below.

Elisha’s Bears

"And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them" (2 Kings 2:23,24).

This account has occasioned much criticism by skeptics, charging Elisha with petulant cruelty in sending bears to kill the little children who were taunting him.  Actually, it was God who sent the bears, not Elisha.

The fact is, however, that Elisha did not curse little children at all.  The Hebrew word for "children" used with the phrase "little children" can be applied to any child from infancy to adolescence.  The word for the 42 "children" torn by the bears, however, is a different word, commonly translated "young men."  Actually, both words are used more often for young men than for little children.

The situation evidently involved a gang of young hoodlums of various ages, led by the older ones, with all of them no doubt instigated by the pagan priests and idolatrous citizens of Bethel.  The bears which suddenly emerged from the woods "tare" (not necessarily fatally in all cases) 42 of the older hooligans.

The jeering exhortation to "go up, thou bald head," was both a sarcastic reference to Elijah’s supposed ascension, as well as an insult to God’s prophet.  This was actually a challenge to God and could not be excused.  So God made good—in miniature—on a warning issued long before: "And if ye walk contrary unto me. . . . I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children" (Leviticus 26:21,22).  It can be a dangerous thing, for young or old, to gratuitously insult the true God and His word. HMM

For more . . . .

Why would elisha resort to killing anyone?...Did it teach anyone any moral lesson?...does that mean I can smash kids heads in when offended?

davien:


Why would elisha resort to killing anyone?...Did it teach anyone any moral lesson?...does that mean I can smash kids heads in when offended?

Who told you that Elisha killed any kid?

OLAADEGBU:
Amen!
I still insist that it was God that killed the 42 lads not Elisha.

Does God "kill" or is it a case of God allows death prevail?
Or a case of the latter where, God gives one up to the whims of death or the grim reaper.

Do you seriously or really believe God kills or God murders?
If yes, how does He kill, how does He murder?

OLAADEGBU:


Who told you that Elisha killed any kid?

Who gave the curse?.....and who didn't tell "god" to spare them for they knew not what they were doing?

MuttleyLaff:


Does God "kill" or is it a case of God allows death prevail?
Or a case of the latter where, God gives one up to the whims of death or the grim reaper.

Both are the case. This is what our Lord Jesus said about whom to fear.

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him" (Luke 12:5).

MuttleyLaff:


Do you seriously or really believe God kills or God murders?
If yes, how does He kill, how does He murder?

God kills but does not murder. Read the verse quoted above to see how.

davien:


Who gave the curse?.....and who didn't tell "god" to spare them for they knew not what they were doing?

Elisha pronounced the curse against those thugs and God had to honour His Word that says "the wages of sin is death".

Pr0ton:


This is why your answer doesn't work:

Punishment for violating the law in the OT was by stoning to death. Here is an example of a rude wayward child.

Deut 21

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.”21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.You must purge the evilfrom among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Assumimg these boys violated the law, then they should have died by stoning. But this wasn't anything in connection to the law. Elisha with the support and assistance from God ordered bears to tear those lads because they (Elisha and God) chose to.

Second reason is because the lads weren't Jews, and the law could not have had effect on them. Rom 3:19 says the Law speaks to those under it. And Rom 4:16 says where there's no law, there is no sin. Hence, the lads were innocent in that aspect as they were not under the Jewish law. If we are to base on what the law says, then God and Elisha killed innocent kids.

This is where you err. Those guys were not kids they were thugs. The OT says the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20) either you are a Jew or Gentile. God had the thugs killed according to the Law.

Scholar8200:


The incident recorded took place between Jericho and Bethel (Jericho was one of the first place conquered by Joshua while Bethel was part of the lands given to Abraham hence the command to Jacob,"go up to Bethel" hence those lads were of the tribe of Israel. Stoning was the means but if that was not done, the wages of sin, death, will come some other way. Absalom was another rebellious kid who died not by stoning(he was too charismatic to have been stoned by those whose heart he stole) , but the deserved retribution of his actions caught up with him.

Good job.

theAtheist101:


... because he (god) has poor judgement just like most men that lived 2000 years ago.

Your main question should be: How did just two bears kill 42 (!) young boys? Where they all crippled?

The authors of the Bible are the masters of all liars!

Why don't you summon up your fellow thugs and then test the strength of two grizzly bears to find out whether its a lie? See the video clip below for an idea of the strength of the average bear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38q2fDtDDvM