tundebabzy:

You must be a very rich guy

NOT REALLY THO, SLOW N STEADY WINS THE RACE......DON`T YOU THINK?

temizeee:

NOT REALLY THO, SLOW N STEADY WINS THE RACE......DON`T YOU THINK?

With adequate foresight and good planning (or the other way around), one could establish a small/moderate system and grow it to a moderate/large one. Rome was not built in a day.

Hey house!!!

Please has anyone tried the PRAG 2.5Kva 24V inverter?

I have a 1.4Kva sukam that came pre-wired (i.e, the wires for the batrery were already attached to it), so i figured I'd test the rating to see just how safe those wires are in terms of current handlng.

So i plugged in an 800watt pressure cooker to the inverter circuit and within minutes, I could smell burnt wire, even though no overload alarm went off. I switched the unit off and felt the wire, which was blistering hot. Obviously, this cant be safe for long term use, as it may start a fire.

I just need info from anyone who's used the prag 24v 2.5kva inverter, to see if they've loaded at least 1300watts on it without the wires melting, since it also comes prewired for battery connection.

NoMoreTrolling:
Hey house!!!

Please has anyone tried the PRAG 2.5Kva 24V inverter?

I have a 1.4Kva sukam that came pre-wired (i.e, the wires for the batrery were already attached to it), so i figured I'd test the rating to see just how safe those wires are in terms of current handlng.

So i plugged in an 800watt pressure cooker to the inverter circuit and within minutes, I could smell burnt wire, even though no overload alarm went off. I switched the unit off and felt the wire, which was blistering hot. Obviously, this cant be safe for long term use, as it may start a fire.

I just need info from anyone who's used the prag 24v 2.5kva inverter, to see if they've loaded at least 1300watts on it without the wires melting, since it also comes prewired for battery connection.

48V Inverters will be the safest for your type of load.

NoMoreTrolling:
Hey house!!!

Please has anyone tried the PRAG 2.5Kva 24V inverter?

I have a 1.4Kva sukam that came pre-wired (i.e, the wires for the batrery were already attached to it), so i figured I'd test the rating to see just how safe those wires are in terms of current handlng.

So i plugged in an 800watt pressure cooker to the inverter circuit and within minutes, I could smell burnt wire, even though no overload alarm went off. I switched the unit off and felt the wire, which was blistering hot. Obviously, this cant be safe for long term use, as it may start a fire.

I just need info from anyone who's used the prag 24v 2.5kva inverter, to see if they've loaded at least 1300watts on it without the wires melting, since it also comes prewired for battery connection.

i hv loaded a 1000w pressing iron on a 1,5kva/1.2kw luminous 24v inverter several times...no shaking, allmost all inverters come prewired for the dc side...well at least the cheap/moderately priced ones here in naija

NoMoreTrolling:
Hey house!!!

Please has anyone tried the PRAG 2.5Kva 24V inverter?

I have a 1.4Kva sukam that came pre-wired (i.e, the wires for the batrery were already attached to it), so i figured I'd test the rating to see just how safe those wires are in terms of current handlng.

So i plugged in an 800watt pressure cooker to the inverter circuit and within minutes, I could smell burnt wire, even though no overload alarm went off. I switched the unit off and felt the wire, which was blistering hot. Obviously, this cant be safe for long term use, as it may start a fire.

I just need info from anyone who's used the prag 24v 2.5kva inverter, to see if they've loaded at least 1300watts on it without the wires melting, since it also comes prewired for battery connection.

There are 2 possible reasons why the wires could have heated up. The first reason (unlikely) could be that the inverter was faulty. The second reason (most likely) which is very common is that there was improper/loose contact.

Loose contacts is the most common problem we encounter in DIY/Semi professional setups. Those loose contacts causes what is called arcing in electrical circuits and is capable of burning down a house.

Be sure that your battery terminals are firmly tightened to the specified torque by the manufacturers.

I have come across some installations where the installer inserts a washer in-between the battery cable and the battery terminal. This is wrong.

abunafiu:


48V Inverters will be the safest for your type of load.

Thanks, to be honest, I'm thinking of saving up to get the sukam 3.5 and 4 batteries so I can rest easy.

earthrealm:


i hv loaded a 1000w pressing iron on a 1,5kva/1.2kw luminous 24v inverter several times...no shaking, allmost all inverters come prewired for the dc side...well at least the cheap/moderately priced ones here in naija

Isn't this cutting it a bit too close? As per load/capacity being high, almost close to 1. I guess either luminous is a good brand or its what richmond said about improper connections.

I'm planning to buy the LG ac that says it can start with 0.9kva, so I just wanted to test my system with a similar load and it failed.

I may upgrade to 48V which would mean less current running through the wires.

richmon74:


There are 2 possible reasons why the wires could have heated up. The first reason (unlikely) could be that the inverter was faulty. The second reason (most likely) which is very common is that there was improper/loose contact.

Loose contacts is the most common problem we encounter in DIY/Semi professional setups. Those loose contacts causes what is called arcing in electrical circuits and is capable of burning down a house.

Be sure that your battery terminals are firmly tightened to the specified torque by the manufacturers.

I have come across some installations where the installer inserts a washer in-between the battery cable and the battery terminal. This is wrong.

Thanks dude! I will definitely check out the install. I actually did it myself and didn't use a washer, just a nut to tighten the connection between the battery terminal and the cable ring terminal. An electrician recently worked on something in that room and had to disconnect and reconnect the batteries, so I'll check.

Though the hottest part of the wire, from my observation, was the negative part coming out of the inverter. That wire was supa dupa hot!!! If I had my way, I'd have installed 2 gauge wire in there, but since it's pre-wired, I'd have to open it up, which is a no no.

I've seen you use some PRAG inverters in your install, how are they working out for you? I know the 4kva 24V&48V PRAG don't come pre-wired, so you can basically do wire sizing yourself to get the correct AWG for the system.

I can't get specs of the wire the PRAG 2.5kva uses, but I wonder if it looks safe (pic attached). it seems they are joining two wires together to up the amp carrying capacity.

NoMoreTrolling:


Thanks dude! I will definitely check out the install. I actually did it myself and didn't use a washer, just a nut to tighten the connection between the battery terminal and the cable ring terminal. An electrician recently worked on something in that room and had to disconnect and reconnect the batteries, so I'll check.

Though the hottest part of the wire, from my observation, was the negative part coming out of the inverter. That wire was supa dupa hot!!! If I had my way, I'd have installed 2 gauge wire in there, but since it's pre-wired, I'd have to open it up, which is a no no.

I've seen you use some PRAG inverters in your install, how are they working out for you? I know the 4kva 24V&48V PRAG don't come pre-wired, so you can basically do wire sizing yourself to get the correct AWG for the system.

I can't get specs of the wire the PRAG 2.5kva uses, but I wonder if it looks safe (pic attached). it seems they are joining two wires together to up the amp carrying capacity.

The wires are not heating up because they are under rated. I can say that authoritatively. there must be something wrong with the system for the wire to get hot. If you increase the wire gauge without correcting the error in the system you are further increasing the system risk. Plz do keep fire extinguisher handy.

I have used that inverter you are talking about in many applications and they work just great. PRAG 2.5kva isn't going to be a solution either. The only thing you'll gain is the extra power that's all. PRAG inverters are rated at 1.25 power factor meaning 2.5kva is 2kw and that's a lot of power for a home.

Meanwhile we still resale all PRAG products at discounted prices so if you still make up your mind to buy one you are free to contact us.

Our contact still remains:

Phone/WhatsApp: 08023033135, 08182218868
contact@pbasesolar.com

i bet a loose connection is the culprit, dc/high amperage and loose connection = fire, the combination is unforgiving....look at car battery heads

Kiekie, thanks for your quick waybill response. For you to send goods worth above half a million across to me on a 1st time transaction , you must be a trustworthy and a reliable man. I look forward doing greater business with you soonest Sir . Thanks and God bless !

Nice interactive forum guys. I know there are so many silent readers like me keep it up all !

gabon:
Kiekie, thanks for your quick waybill response. For you to send goods worth above half a million across to me on a 1st time transaction , you must be a trustworthy and a reliable man. I look forward doing greater business with you soonest Sir . Thanks and God bless !

Yes I am also a silent member and must say Frankie is truly good , trustworthy & dedicated.

kiekie1:
HURRY HURRY HURRY !!!!!!

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All our products come with 1 year Warranty.

For best affordable prices,contact Smartcell Global Services,Lagos Nigeria. Simply call Sir Frankie "08135031951" for purchase,fast delivery and waybills .. Thanks !!!

Pls I will call you tomorrow as regards to the 10kva servo stab you introduced to me. Happy weekend !

NoMoreTrolling:


Thanks dude! I will definitely check out the install. I actually did it myself and didn't use a washer, just a nut to tighten the connection between the battery terminal and the cable ring terminal. An electrician recently worked on something in that room and had to disconnect and reconnect the batteries, so I'll check.

Though the hottest part of the wire, from my observation, was the negative part coming out of the inverter. That wire was supa dupa hot!!! If I had my way, I'd have installed 2 gauge wire in there, but since it's pre-wired, I'd have to open it up, which is a no no.

I've seen you use some PRAG inverters in your install, how are they working out for you? I know the 4kva 24V&48V PRAG don't come pre-wired, so you can basically do wire sizing yourself to get the correct AWG for the system.

I can't get specs of the wire the PRAG 2.5kva uses, but I wonder if it looks safe (pic attached). it seems they are joining two wires together to up the amp carrying capacity.

Well, current actually flows from the negative to positive terminals, the reverse of conventional teaching.

Another possibility overlooked is that resistive loads don't necessarily mean other loads aren't in operation, even within a single device (was the device connected directly to the inverter?)

All too often we encounter devices which consume (up to twice!) more power than their advertised rating. Before you condemn the inverter and look for faults where there might be none, get another device and try out the inverter again. Monitor carefully. Have a fire extinguisher at hand.

Saipro:


Well, current actually flows from the negative to positive terminals, the reverse of conventional teaching.

Another possibility overlooked is that resistive loads don't necessarily mean other loads aren't in operation, even within a single device (was the device connected directly to the inverter?)

All too often we encounter devices which consume (up to twice!) more power than their advertised rating. Before you condemn the inverter and look for faults where there might be none, get another device and try out the inverter again. Monitor carefully. Have a fire extinguisher at hand.

\

if this is the case, then the overload protector of the inverter shud hv kicked in..............i support the loose cable theory

richmon74:


The wires are not heating up because they are under rated. I can say that authoritatively. there must be something wrong with the system for the wire to get hot. If you increase the wire gauge without correcting the error in the system you are further increasing the system risk. Plz do keep fire extinguisher handy.

I have used that inverter you are talking about in many applications and they work just great. PRAG 2.5kva isn't going to be a solution either. The only thing you'll gain is the extra power that's all. PRAG inverters are rated at 1.25 power factor meaning 2.5kva is 2kw and that's a lot of power for a home.

Meanwhile we still resale all PRAG products at discounted prices so if you still make up your mind to buy one you are free to contact us.

Our contact still remains:

Phone/WhatsApp: 08023033135, 08182218868
contact@pbasesolar.com

Thanks, I'll def. hit you up when I'm ready to upgrade both the inverter and batteries.

You're right, I installed the battery with a washer next to the terminal on the side were the bolt is. On the other side were the wire terminal is, the washer is between the wire terminal and the screw head, so I think that one is all good. I'll take it apart removing the washer in direct contact with the terminal and try again.

earthrealm:
i bet a loose connection is the culprit, dc/high amperage and loose connection = fire, the combination is unforgiving....look at car battery heads

Funny enough, I don't think any connection is loose. Anywho, I'm just gonna put a larger inverter and 4 batteries on my budget for the next few months. That way, I'll have the added capacity I'll need, even if I may only max out once in a while.

Saipro:


Well, current actually flows from the negative to positive terminals, the reverse of conventional teaching.

Another possibility overlooked is that resistive loads don't necessarily mean other loads aren't in operation, even within a single device (was the device connected directly to the inverter?)

All too often we encounter devices which consume (up to twice!) more power than their advertised rating. Before you condemn the inverter and look for faults where there might be none, get another device and try out the inverter again. Monitor carefully. Have a fire extinguisher at hand.

lol, @ fire extinguisher

Nope, I didn't plug the cooker directly to the inverter, just a room wall socket wired into the distribution panel which the inverter supplies. However, I did plug the cooker into a kilowatt meter and the reading was about 798 watts, approx 800 watts. Only other load on at the time, was a single 11 watt energy saver bulb. Thing is, the overload alarm didn't even go off, so it must have registered that the power being consumed was less that its rating, yet the wires were still hot in all trials and smelt burnt in like 2 out of maybe 5 trials.

This was just a test for me in order to see if I can run that LG cool gen inverter AC comfortably, but typically, I run max about 400 watts on that inverter, with maybe 1000 watts for like 10 secs when the fridge is starting with other loads, so I've never really had cause to monitor it.

I've already started a savings plan to get a larger inverter in the next few months, for peace of mind. I believe a pre-wired larger inverter at 24v would at least come with wires capable of handling 70% of their rating without the wires getting too hot (maybe just warm). Or better still, a 48V system (less current), but those are a bit more expensive.

Funny thing is, I already bought my mppt tracer charge controller, remote monitor, fuses... and was now saving for panels, before I realized a bigger inverter should come first it's really always good to think far ahead in the RE world so your not just buying mismatched systems

ekesonbatteries:


Pls I will call you tomorrow as regards to the 10kva servo stab you introduced to me. Happy weekend !

Thanks for the call. You will get your delivery on monday Sir !

NoMoreTrolling:


lol, @ fire extinguisher

Nope, I didn't plug the cooker directly to the inverter, just a room wall socket wired into the distribution panel which the inverter supplies. However, I did plug the cooker into a kilowatt meter and the reading was about 798 watts, approx 800 watts. Only other load on at the time, was a single 11 watt energy saver bulb. Thing is, the overload alarm didn't even go off, so it must have registered that the power being consumed was less that its rating, yet the wires were still hot in all trials and smelt burnt in like 2 out of maybe 5 trials.
......
......
......
Funny thing is, I already bought my mppt tracer charge controller, remote monitor, fuses... and was now saving for panels, before I realized a bigger inverter should come first it's really always good to think far ahead in the RE world so your not just buying mismatched systems

Eventually, we all want more. Welcome to yet another addictive hobby.

Regarding the Sukam: If it's a 24V inverter, well, that means we'll have to go with the loose wire theory. Do bear in mind once more that inductive and capacitive loads don't behave quite the same way as resistive loads; even though they might have the same power rating, their operational parameters are pretty different. The resistive load you've tested your system with is the worst case scenario (excellent choice for testing system limits). Your A/C wouldn't do the same though.

On the off-chance: I have a Sukam at hand too and it's the same 1.4kVA but it's a 12V -> 230V inverter. I hope that's not what you have. If it is, while you might well be within the running limits of the inverter's capacity, you've either reached the limits or well exceeded the ampacity of the cables (I think they come with 16mm² cables). You're intended to run at such limits for brief bursts, not continuous power draw even though 800W/1,400W = 57% capacity (ignoring power factor and assuming 100% efficiency) based on the weakest link (your input cables). Don't ask me why, I didn't design them so.

Saipro:

You're intended to run at such limits for brief bursts, not continuous power draw even though 800W/1,400W = 57% capacity ([b]ignoring power factor [/b]and assuming 100% efficiency) based on the weakest link (your input cables). Don't ask me why, I didn't design them so.

Like seriously?

NoMoreTrolling:


lol, @ fire extinguisher

Nope, I didn't plug the cooker directly to the inverter, just a room wall socket wired into the distribution panel which the inverter supplies. However, I did plug the cooker into a kilowatt meter and the reading was about 798 watts, approx 800 watts. Only other load on at the time, was a single 11 watt energy saver bulb. Thing is, the overload alarm didn't even go off, so it must have registered that the power being consumed was less that its rating, yet the wires were still hot in all trials and smelt burnt in like 2 out of maybe 5 trials.

This was just a test for me in order to see if I can run that LG cool gen inverter AC comfortably, but typically, I run max about 400 watts on that inverter, with maybe 1000 watts for like 10 secs when the fridge is starting with other loads, so I've never really had cause to monitor it.

I've already started a savings plan to get a larger inverter in the next few months, for peace of mind. I believe a pre-wired larger inverter at 24v would at least come with wires capable of handling 70% of their rating without the wires getting too hot (maybe just warm). Or better still, a 48V system (less current), but those are a bit more expensive.

Funny thing is, I already bought my mppt tracer charge controller, remote monitor, fuses... and was now saving for panels, before I realized a bigger inverter should come first it's really always good to think far ahead in the RE world so your not just buying mismatched systems

The one thing you must not is that these inverters have their THDs over 10% meaning the output wave form is no more pure sine wave after about 50% load capacity and it gets worse as you increase the load.

But for the cable ratings I can say with authority that that cable attached to those inverters are capable of handling 100% of their load capacity without warming up.

What I'll advice is that you unhook the inverter, clean up both the battery and inverter contacts and reconnect them firmly and run the test again.

richmon74:


The one thing you must not is that these inverters have their THDs over 10% meaning the output wave form is no more pure sine wave after about 50% load capacity and it gets worse as you increase the load.

But for the cable ratings I can say with authority that that cable attached to those inverters are capable of handling 100% of their load capacity without warming up.

What I'll advice is that you unhook the inverter, clean up both the battery and inverter contacts and reconnect them firmly and run the test again.

No intention of berating you. We're all here to learn and I might also be wrong but 16mm² cable on a 1.4kVA 12V Sukam is a mismatch anyday. Assuming no efficiency losses, kVA = kW

80% capacity = 0.8 x 1,400W = 1,120W
In a 12V system, that's an amperage of 1120W/12V = 93.3A
Wow!

If that isn't a mismatch, it sure does come close.
By the way, I have one of such Sukams at home and it's the same 1.4kVA. It's why I'm asking for his system voltage rating. Even at half that amperage (46.7A assuming a 24V system), drawing significant current for long does heat up the cable = further losses and further heating = further inefficiency. All these ignoring the signinficant waveform distortion amd lowering of efficiency as has truly been proven occurs when you load these inverters beyond 50% - as cited by NoMoreTrolling.

Those cables are small.

PS: Assuming normal inefficiency of 85%, when you say you're drawing 800W, you're actually forcing the inverter to work at closer to 950W power draw, assuming everything is coming from your battery bank. That's almost 80A if it's a 12V system. I'm just saying .....

hi, please can you give a link where you got it? been looking for this for ages!!!

the compressors are usually 60w to 72w for dc fridges, this one may be higher in wattage.
the panels required IMHO wiil be calculated as follows:

1. if a/c run at daytime only: current comsumed by a/c must be fully supplied by panels per hour

2. if intention is to use it when sun is not up, then panels must produce running current of a/c PLUS EXTRA TO BE STORED IN A BATTERY BANK FOR USE AT NIGHT.

other slight modifications may be necessary to allow for voltage drop e.t.c
hope this helps.

JUO:

hi, where can we get it?

much obliged.

thanks,

NoMoreTrolling:
Another cool device (don't know if it's been mentioned already in one of the many pages), is a power meter to tell what power individual devices in your household draw.








I hooked my 80 watts fridge into this and was shocked at the current surge of the small fridge to over 500 watts. Obviously I knew there'd be surge current with the fridge, but I was thinking more like 300 or so

With accurate measurements of loads, proper planning and load shedding can be done to maximize battery life among other things.

Saipro:

Eventually, we all want more. Welcome to yet another addictive hobby.

Regarding the Sukam: If it's a 24V inverter, well, that means we'll have to go with the loose wire theory. Do bear in mind once more that inductive and capacitive loads don't behave quite the same way as resistive loads; even though they might have the same power rating, their operational parameters are pretty different. The resistive load you've tested your system with is the worst case scenario (excellent choice for testing system limits). Your A/C wouldn't do the same though.

On the off-chance: I have a Sukam at hand too and it's the same 1.4kVA but it's a 12V -> 230V inverter. I hope that's not what you have. If it is, while you might well be within the running limits of the inverter's capacity, you've either reached the limits or well exceeded the ampacity of the cables (I think they come with 16mm² cables). You're intended to run at such limits for brief bursts, not continuous power draw even though 800W/1,400W = 57% capacity (ignoring power factor and assuming 100% efficiency) based on the weakest link (your input cables). Don't ask me why, I didn't design them so.

Nah, it's a 24V system, so the current at 800 watts should be like approx 40A. Yeah, the cables would be way too small if it was a 12V system. I had to measure the diameter with a tape, to try to guess the gauge of the wire minus insulation, and it checked out on the AWG chart. Anywho, I'm gonna try to loosen the batteries up and reconnect them without the washers and test when I'm less busy.

The AC I'm talking about has a Variable Frequency Drive, I think, so it doesn't need more than 800 watts to start up as the compressor speed is stepped. So I figure it'll be pretty much the same load as the cooker, though I still have to buy it first and confirm this info.

richmon74:


The one thing you must not is that these inverters have their THDs over 10% meaning the output wave form is no more pure sine wave after about 50% load capacity and it gets worse as you increase the load.

But for the cable ratings I can say with authority that that cable attached to those inverters are capable of handling 100% of their load capacity without warming up.

What I'll advice is that you unhook the inverter, clean up both the battery and inverter contacts and reconnect them firmly and run the test again.

That's what I'm planning on doing when I'm free and the gen is on, I'll try the battery connection with and without the washers, then run the test again and top up all that lost power asap.

lexi28:
hi, where can we get it?

much obliged.

thanks,

I got it from amazon.co.uk. The problem is always bringing the stuff into naija. If you're there yourself or have someone coming, then that's a really cool site for battery savers (desulphators), power meters and stuff.

There are naija and uk cargo people that do freight though, but sometimes, their minimum charge may be like 50 pounds if you don't have much to ship.

NoMoreTrolling:


Nah, it's a 24V system, so the current at 800 watts should be like approx 40A. Yeah, the cables would be way too small if it was a 12V system. I had to measure the diameter with a tape, to try to guess the gauge of the wire minus insulation, and it checked out on the AWG chart. Anywho, I'm gonna try to loosen the batteries up and reconnect them without the washers and test when I'm less busy.

The AC I'm talking about has a Variable Frequency Drive, I think, so it doesn't need more than 800 watts to start up as the compressor speed is stepped. So I figure it'll be pretty much the same load as the cooker, though I still have to buy it first and confirm this info.

Have a look at this table of Amercian Wire Gauges to guide you in the future. Wire ampacity capability and power transmission ampacity don't necessarily go hand in hand. I'm putting it here as a reminder for myself too.

Saipro:


Have a look at this table of Amercian Wire Gauges to guide you in the future. Wire ampacity capability and power transmission ampacity don't necessarily go hand in hand. I'm putting it here as a reminder for myself too.

This is not a correct wire chart for use with DC.
Look out for DC Cable sizing charts on UK sites.

For your information also
A 16mm² flexible cable of one meter is capable of handling up to 94 amp of 24v DC at 1% acceptable loss.
Therefore the cable attached to the 1.4kva Sukam inverter is for more sufficient to do its job at 100% load which will only draw about 46amp.
Moreso, no body expects you to load inverter up to 100% for a prolonged period.
This is the last time I'll talk about this.

richmon74:

This is not a correct wire chart for use with DC.
Look out for DC Cable sizing charts on UK sites.
For your information also
A 16mm² flexible cable of one meter is capable of handling up to 94 amp of 24v DC at 1% acceptable loss.
Therefore the cable attached to the 1.4kva Sukam inverter is for more sufficient to do its job at 100% load which will only draw about 46amp.
Moreso, no body expects you to load inverter up to 100% for a prolonged period.
This is the last time I'll talk about this.

Its amazing how people apply theory with out practical.
We all know that a 16mm cable can take up to a 100A if its pure copper.
Please I don't think you should say more as you promised.