Emusan:


Sorry for this, you need more of basic English.

As I highlighted three key points from that verse which are:
1. The one alone having immortality,
2. who dwells in unapproachable light, &
3. Whom not one of men has seen or can see.
And go on to say ONLY A BEING THAT IS UNCREATED can absolutely fit into these three descriptions. then you can appreciate my statement you referred to which means if these three attributes that only God possessed was used to describe Christ and JWs openly ADMITTED then Jesus is God.

Did Paul also say after His ascension to heaven? It's clear, you're the one who added that.

malvisguy212:
listen, NO man has ever seen God in His true image, men only saw Jesus ( the word) when he BECAME FLESH and made His dwellings AMONG US. In his letter to the church at
Philippi, the apostle Paul mentioned that Christ, Who had existed in heaven “in the form of God”, “made Himself of no reputation,” and TOOK ON THE LIKENESS OF MEN ” (Philippians 2:6-7). Men saw an EMBODIMENT OF GOD as Jesus dwelt here in a fleshly form. Men saw “the Word” that “became flesh.” But no one has ever seen God’s true, complete image (as a spirit Being).

Jozzy4:


Empiree , I now understand you . Hehehe mizjanet must not see this Comment o , thats another trouble for christians

Jozzy4:


Whom did men saw ? Jesus Or God .

malvisguy212:
men only saw God (Jesus , the word ) when he made his dwellings in the flesh,

the bible clearly say God is a spirit , NO man has ever seen the true nature of God.

Jozzy4:


So men saw God , peter and all the apostles saw God , the pharisees saw God Abi ? Yet scripture said " No Man Has Seen God AT ANYTIME" Joh 1:18 .

Who is lying between you both ?



God is a spirit ? Not flesh anymore .

Meanwhile , do u read that God also said he is worshipping the other God thats a spirit ? John 4:22 , God worship God , abi ?

Rilwayne001:



In the pithy aphorithm; the bible is the book of confusion. The many thousands of the christian sects we have today is enough to show this confusion. [/b]

malvisguy212:
okay, I see what you are doing now, selecting the post that favour your argument and leave the KEY WORD.
Man only saw the EMBODIMENT of God and NOT the true nature of GOD.

Jozzy4: And who told you Jesus is not created ?

Proverb 8:22 " The LORD Made me (Jesus) as the beginning of his way, the earliest of HIS ACHIEVEMENT"

johnw74:



Emusan the above is a wrong bible translation. John 1:1 is another witness to the proper word in Proverbe 8:22 being "possessed" and not "made".


Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jozzy4:



you think you can just wake up from sleep and type anything . nonsense

Spotlight on the color part , answer these .

1) just explain to me : what do you mean by Jesus was possessed ? .

Ii ) and do you know that the greek septuagint (a very old translation) which Jesus himself quote and used said " MADE"?

lexiconkabir:
christianity shouldnt be called christianity, it should have been paulinity, all the confusions are caused by paul the liar, no wonder jeremiah 8:8 is telling us that the bible has been changed by men, since they've lost the truth. if men wrote the book, then it is bound to contradict itself, hence the confusion of christians, smh.

Jozzy4:


Brother malvisguy212 , since you hav confess Jesus is not the true nature of God , tell us : Who is God ?

lexiconkabir:
[center]malvisguy212, just as rilwayne said, you are not of sound mind, and since i have had encounter with you in the past, i think i agree with him, if i refute your claim you may come up with another rubbish and that will a waste of my time, so i leave you to your confused and deluded mind. [/center]

malvisguy212:
nonsense!! I have nothing to say. I will just stay mute.

Rilwayne001:


We call it, 'Delusion grandeur'

I think the problem is not even what they believe. The problems stems from the bible. Those who believe that Jesus is YAHWEH (e.g. bingbagbo, an2elect) will try to uphold their believe by quoting some verses of the BIBLE that support their erroneous delusion. Those who believe he is God's son on the other hand are mostly trinitarians. They would as well prove their believe with the BIBLE, the OP is an example of a deluded trinitarian. And lastly, those that believe he (Jesus) isn't God almighty, that he had a God are mostly the Unitarians and the JW (that the OP is calling out for arguement). They also provide prove for their believe from the BIBLE.

In the pithy aphorithm; the bible is the book of confusion. The many thousands of the christian sects we have today is enough to show this confusion.

true2god:
Yes, you are right. Christians have many sects and denominations. You will also agree with me that islam also have different sects and denominations. Tradtion even had it that mohammed predicted that islam with fragment into 72 (or 73) sects but only one sect will be the true one. Is that not confusion is islam?

You also failed to mention that, inspite of the varition of doctrines among the christian churches, you can never hear or see any church physically bombing or attacking each other. In islam, the shia are being killed by the sunnis in their mosque in saudi arabia, pakistan, afghanistan, sudan, etc while the iranians are oppressing the sunnis. The sunnis are equally killing the ahmadiyyas in pakistan in the name of 'blasphemy' against the islamic pedophille prophet.

So when you look at it in a proper perspective, devoid of islamic altaqiyya, christians have rights to disagree in matter of christian theology, without any risk while muslims see anyone that disagree with their own form of islam as a potential target for islamic teorrist killings.

Jozzy4:

And who told you Jesus is not created ?

Proverb 8:22 " The LORD Made me (Jesus) as the beginning of his way, the earliest of HIS ACHIEVEMENT"

so jesus dwell in unapprochable light when he was on earth, abi? tell me when he start dwelling in unaprochable light, lets see if its not after his ascension to heaven ?

lexiconkabir:
because you couldnt refute jeremiah 8:8 you tried to divert my attention. LOL.

lexiconkabir:
malvisguy212, just as rilwayne said, you are not of sound mind, and since i have had encounter with you in the past, i think i agree with him, if i refute your claim you may come up with another rubbish and that will a waste of my time, so i leave you to your confused and deluded mind.

malvisguy212:
http://christianityresponse..nl/2009/12/refuting-muslim-misuse-of-jeremiah-8-8.html?m=1

lexiconkabir:

christianity shouldnt be called christianity, it should have been paulinity, all the confusions are caused by paul the liar, no wonder jeremiah 8:8 is telling us that the bible has been changed by men, since they've lost the truth. if men wrote the book, then it is bound to contradict itself, hence the confusion of christians, smh.

Rilwayne001:


You didn't get the point I tried to raise in my last post. I'll implore you to read it again.

true2god:
You claimed that christianity is a confused religion and I told you that yes, there are slight doctrinal differences in chritian denominations yet they dont fight or kill each other because of that. A non-catholic can preach against catholic doctrine in rome and go scot-free. If a person, who claim to follow ahmadiyya teachings, is found is mecca, he will be killed.

Can you see the difference?

I think the problem is not even what they believe. The problems stems from the bible....,
In the pithy aphorithm; the bible is the book of
confusion.

lexiconkabir:
@true2god didnt i and some other muslims refute your wrong understanding of those hadiths in the past? dont bother to ask me where. your explanation still proves what we have been saying that the bible contradicts itself. torah is the law of moses which the christians believe jesus cancelled due to some verses yet jesus said he did not come to cancel(a contradiction on its own), the quran came to buttress the injil and torah, mind you injil is the gospel of what jesus said himself not what they(paul, peter, mattew, luke etc) said about him. if you follow what jesus said himself, it is 100% islamic.

true2god:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only beggotten son, that whoso-ever believ in him shall not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16). Do you believe this statement by Jesus or a usual lying altaqiyyaric muslim who said they believe in Jesus more that christians but deny most of his word?

Jesus said, 'God sent his only begotten son', do you belief in this Jesus' statement?

malvisguy212:
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jehovah is God and “is the name of the true God only” According to their doctrine, Jehovah, not Christ, is God
Almighty. Yet, man HAS SEEN Jehovah.

Genesis chapter 18 records an occasion
when “Jehovah appeared” to Abraham
near Mamre (vs. 1). Jehovah spoke
directly to Abraham (vs. 13), and the
faithful servant of God “stood before the
Lord” (vs. 22). The final verse of Genesis
18 states: “And Jehovah went his way, as
soon as he had left off communing with
Abraham. And Abraham returned unto
his place” (vs. 33). If Jehovah’s Witnesses
were consistent with their argument,
Jehovah could not be Almighty God
because man has seen Jehovah. If John
1:18 somehow disqualifies Jesus from
being God, it must also prohibit
“Jehovah” from being God, because they
both were seen. What Bible students
must understand is that man has only
seen MANIFESTATIONS of God (i.e, in
human flesh, or in the midst of a burning bush, Exodus 3:2, etc.); he has never seen God (the Father or the Son) in His true spirit image.

Emusan:
One of the arguments that the Watchtower Society raises against Jesus being God in the flesh is the fact that the Holy Bible teaches that God cannot be seen, whereas Jesus was seen:

[size=14pt]Is Jesus God?[/size]

“No man has seen God at any time.”—John 1:18.

WHAT PEOPLE SAY

Many people believe that Jesus is not God. Still, others point to Bible verses that supposedly indicate that Jesus is equal to God. (This indicates that JWs truly knew that some verses in the Bible actually put Jesus in equality with the Father)

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS

The Bible does not portray Jesus as being Almighty God or equal to God. On the contrary, it clearly teaches that Jesus is inferior to God. For example, the Bible records Jesus’ own words: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) [size=14pt]The Bible also says: “No man has seen God at any time.” (John 1:18) Jesus cannot be God because many people did in fact see Jesus.[/size]

Jesus’ early followers did not claim that he was God. For example, the Gospel writer John said concerning the things he recorded: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.”—John 20:31. (AWAKE! DECEMBER 2013)

*Ironically, the Society interprets this text in reference to Christ, which means that he (JESUS) is the One whom the passage says "no one has seen or can see!"

What basis is there for saying that such phrases as “the one alone having immortality” and the one “whom not one of men has seen or can see” refer to Jesus rather than to Jehovah God?

The apostle Paul wrote: “This manifestation the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, he the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, [size=13pt]the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”[/size] —1 Timothy 6:15, 16.

Bible commentators generally reason: ‘How could such phrases as “the one alone having immortality,” the “only Potentate,” and the one “whom not one of men has seen or can see” point to anyone other than the Almighty?’ [size=14pt]ADMITTEDLY, such terms could be used TO DESCRIBE JEHOVAH. However, the context indicates that at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16, Paul WAS SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO JESUS.[/size]

At the end of verse 14, Paul mentions “the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Timothy 6:14) Hence, when Paul writes in 1Ti 6 verse 15 that “this manifestation the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times,” [size=14pt]he is referring to a manifestation of Jesus, not of Jehovah God.[/size] Who, then, is the “only Potentate”? It seems reasonable to conclude that Jesus is the Potentate referred to by Paul. Why? The context makes it evident that Paul is comparing Jesus with human rulers. Jesus truly is, as Paul wrote, “King of those [humans] who rule as kings and Lord of those [humans] who rule as lords.”* Yes, compared to them, Jesus is the “only Potentate.” Jesus has been given “rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.” (Daniel 7:14) No human potentate can make that claim! (Watchtower, September 1, 2005, Questions From Readers, p. 27; Bold, capital and underline emphasis ours)

There are many descriptions we need to consider in these verses:
1. the one alone having immortality,
2. who dwells in unapproachable light, &
3. whom not one of men has seen or can see.

ONLY A BEING THAT IS UNCREATED can absolutely fit into these three descriptions.
So when Jehovah Witness try to explain the phrase "the one alone having immortality" we see them concluding that Jesus life CAN BY ANY MEANS DESTROYED OR BEYOND DESTRUCTION.

[size=13pt]How can Jesus be “the one alone having immortality”?[/size]

The first one described in the Bible as rewarded with the gift of immortality is Jesus Christ. That he did not possess immortality before his resurrection by God is seen from the inspired apostle’s words at Romans 6:9: “Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” (Compare Re 1:17, 18.) For this reason, when describing him as “the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,” 1 Timothy 6:15, 16 shows that Jesus is distinct from all such other kings and lords in that he is “the one alone having immortality.” The other kings and lords, because of being mortal, die, even as did also the high priests of Israel. [size=14pt]The glorified Jesus, God’s appointed High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, however, has “an indestructible life.”[/size] —Heb 7:15-17, 23-25.

The word “indestructible” here translates the Greek term a•ka•ta′ly•tos, meaning, literally, “indissoluble.” (Heb 7:16, ftn) The word is a compound of the negative prefix a joined to other words relating to a “loosening down,” as in Jesus’ statement regarding the loosening down or throwing down of the stones of the temple at Jerusalem (Mt 24:1, 2), as well as in Paul’s reference to the loosening down of the earthly “tent” of Christians, that is, the dissolving of their earthly life in human bodies. (2Cor 5:1) [size=14pt]Thus, the immortal life granted Jesus upon his resurrection is not merely endless but is beyond deterioration or dissolution and is beyond destruction.[/size] (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1, Immortality, pp. 1189-1190; underline & bold emphasis ours)

Main Article: www.answering-islam.org/seen-the-unseen-God-pt_1.html