MrPresident1:


Majority of us on this thread agree that the earth is more than 6,000 years old, we also believe and hold to the fact that the Bible is infallible, I think this creates a conundrum for us because, well, according to Biblical accounts, the world is 6,000 years old.

MrPresident1:


But there can be a reconciliation, if we are willing to consider that Moses was not there when God was creating the earth, and that what Moses actually recorded as the creation of Adam actually was the first creation of man in the image and likeness of God. The first man in whom was the breadth of God, which the Word/Law of God is the breadth and Spirit of God, and so the first man to know and have the Law/Word of God.

MrPresident1:


Let us examine three key Scriptures I want to use to buttress my position;

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Deuteronomy 32:46-47
And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The willingness to accept this opens up a new paradigm to the understanding of the Word of God; the reconciliation of the Bible with science, and the liberation of the minds of our people from the shackles of ignorant religion..

I invite honoured brethren: Ishilove, Frosbel2, Davidylan, Scholar8200, Jeromejnr, Doubledeex, CaptainJune, starlingslimnet, OLAADEGBU, Xetima, KingEbukasBlog for their esteemed thoughts.

KingEbukasBlog:


Pfft !!! Im 100 %percent sure and its very obvious that you know nothing about lost scrolls and early christian versions of the bible .



Dumb statement again . Ive experienced many instant miracles . Yes ... me ... myself . But please I need a logical explanation for that aside from the usual "supernatural intervention " aka God's power

And again

1. A widely accepted theory -The Big Fraud Theory- denies the First Cause ( an evidence of an always supernatural being )


2. Life coming forth from inorganic matter / non living . Evidently this requires supernatural intervention to become possible .



This confirms the scripture - written by "primitive men " :

1 Timothy 4:1 :







But Lo and behold God does not need to impress you with "rational " actions and decisions . He would have done it any other "rational " way
1 Corinthians 1:27






This is what happens when people misinterpret the roles of Science and Religion in life . The study of nature - science - and its application - technology - are acknowledged even in the bible .



About what exactly . He's a scientist . The last time I checked atheism is simply the unbelief in the existence of God/gods . Dumb idiots can choose to disbelieve in God/gods .

Is his belief in an almighty creator now a yard·stick to attest to his level of knowledge or intelligence ?

Statistically , America and Germany have an average of 75 percent of their total population who identify themselves as religious . From your way of reasoning - close to 360 million people should open their minds and educate themselves just because they are religious .

Analytically , there is a highly probability that these people are better educated than you are ! (That's the fun part )

trustman:
I agree with Davidylan that the bible actually supports an older earth. 

An older earth does not necessary mean agreement with evolution. 

Chizzled06 is your REALITY in the 'vastness of the cosmos' or on earth? Evolution has NO rational explanation to the existence of life forms on earth.
Evolution is ONLY an attempt to 'rationally' explain observed order on earth. 

I want to believe that you are sure that at best evolution is a theory and nothing more. You must know what a 'theory' in this context means. That must be why you mentioned that:
"Biological science hasn't (yet) concluded on the definitive process of the origin of living matter on earth"

It (evolution) is, along with 'intelligence of mankind', more of 'ridiculous nonsense' than a belief in an intelligent creator for earth and the universe. 

davidylan:


I did. I spent 5 years earning a phd in molecular biology, which promptly dispelled the silly myth that science had the answers to life and the origin of man. But of course... be my guest explaining that to us.

MrPresident1:
Majority of us on this thread agree that the earth is more than 6,000 years old, we also believe and hold to the fact that the Bible is infallible, I think this creates a conundrum for us because, well, according to Biblical accounts, the world is 6,000 years old.

But there can be a reconciliation, if we are willing to consider that Moses was not there when God was creating the earth, and that what Moses actually recorded as the creation of Adam actually was the first creation of man in the image and likeness of God. The first man in whom was the breadth of God, which the Word/Law of God is the breadth and Spirit of God, and so the first man to know and have the Law/Word of God.



Let us examine three key Scriptures I want to use to buttress my position;

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Deuteronomy 32:46-47
And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The willingness to accept this opens up a new paradigm to the understanding of the Word of God; the reconciliation of the Bible with science, and the liberation of the minds of our people from the shackles of ignorant religion..

CaptainJune:


The earth is not 6000 years old. However, Man's existence on earth is 6000 years plus now. That is a fact.



Let me ask, when the Devil was kicked out of heaven along with his angels, when did that happen, before the creation of Adam or after? The answer to this question will enable one to fully understand Genesis chapter 1:1 and 2.




I can understand the unwillingness of many to accept this fact but if they open their minds they will understand that this earth is much older than Man.

CaptainJune:


The earth is not 6000 years old. However, Man's existence on earth is 6000 years plus now. That is a fact.



Let me ask, when the Devil was kicked out of heaven along with his angels, when did that happen, before the creation of Adam or after? The answer to this question will enable one to fully understand Genesis chapter 1:1 and 2.




I can understand the unwillingness of many to accept this fact but if they open their minds they will understand that this earth is much older than Man.

Chizzled06:



Lol The "Evolution is just a theory" brigade. Well, so is gravity and I don't see you jumping out of buildings.

You clearly don't understand the scientific method. Scientist's 'Theory' and your everyday use of the word are unfortunately NOT the same.

Your belief in a God is baseless and empty. Born of fear of the unknown. Nurtured by organised religion and indoctrination. Think for yourself, my friend. I hope you eventually break free.

dorox:
@OLAADEGBU:

I would like to know if you believe that the sun was created on the fourth day after the earth was created. In other words is the sun four days younger than the earth?

OLAADEGBU:


Compare the timelines of the big bang theory and the Bible I posted on page 1 and below then you will arrive at the answer.

Chizzled06:



You can't form random opinions and tag them with 'Fact'. Humans, in our current form have existed for more than 100,000 years.

MrPresident1:
We must look at the origin of the Bible to be able to situate its narratives in proper context. We all know that the Bible or the Laws was first given to the Israelites, the Israelites failed to keep the Laws so they fell, so Christ had to die for them to redeem them and also the whole world back to God.

So the Original people of the Bible were the Israelites.
The Law (Bible) originally belonged to the Israelites.
The Gentiles are grafted into the redemption plan by the death and resurrection of Christ.

Now let us all consider this issue of creation in this light:

Assuming the Yoruba people were the first people to be given the Laws/Bible, who do you think they would write about as the beginning of creation? Obviously it would be a Yoruba narrative for Yoruba people. Same for Igbo, or Hausa, or Efik. The point being that the Bible was initially an Israel-centric narrative, especially the Old Testament, while the New Testament shows the light of salvation to Gentiles.

If Moses did not have the creation story of the Hittites, or the Girgashites or the Hivites, how would he write about them? Or would he ever write that other people had a higher civilisation than that of the Israelites, especially when writing a monumental inspired account like the Bible?

Will an Igbo man ever write that a Yoruba man civilised him?

It is high time we show a willingness to cross the paradigm; the Bible and science are not irreconcilable, we must liberate our people from the shackles of Ignorant religion that chains them to baseless fears.

Which brings us to the question, which people today, are the Israelites of the Bible?

Before I say anything, I beg to differ that the interpretation of the origin of existence lies in the language in which the creation was recorded.

Of course, if God had chosen the Igbo tribe to reveal Himself to the world, definitely every narrative in the Word of God would be written in the Igbo language. However, the greatness of God over every other false gods and elements in the world, and the universe at large would stamp the qualities of 'authenticity' and 'truth' on the Word of God so that His Word should not be easily disregarded on the basis of the springing up of hundreds of religions over the years.

This is why the Biblical account of the Creation should not be viewed as owing its authority and originality to the Jews as being written by them.

Concerning the identification of the true Israelites today, that is the Israelites after the flesh, this is open to much speculation owing to various historical documents on the cultural identification of the Jews in addition to their Dispersion around the globe. Matter of fact, I see no common ground of opinion in this issue. Besides, my knowledge in this aspect is limited.

In another note, I can confidently say the true Israelites are not those after the flesh, the physical Israelites. The true Israelites are the children of Abraham, the children of promise - the Christians. They are the true God's chosen people, not the physical Israel bound by geographic location.

CaptainJune:


"In our current form". Do you care to shed more light on that expression?

CaptainJune:


The earth is not 6000 years old. However, Man's existence on earth is 6000 years plus now. That is a fact.

Let me ask, when the Devil was kicked out of heaven along with his angels, when did that happen, before the creation of Adam or after? The answer to this question will enable one to fully understand Genesis chapter 1:1 and 2.

trustman:
[size=5pt][/size]

You said it yourself that Biology wasn't one of the subjects you studied. So maybe then you'll not be able to understand the context in which I used my words. 

I don't see what gravity has to do with 'jumping out of building'. Certainly one can prove gravity without that; can't we? On the other hand, what is the proof of evolution?

Unfortunately you are not able to clearly explain your statements. They are for most part either vague or ambiguous. 

If your belief in 'vastness of the cosmos' is not baseless and empty then tell me on what basis you accepted it - on your 'faith' in what some other persons presented to you as 'facts' or on the basis of your own empirical ( self-experimented) evidence? 
Clear answer please, and no need for insult or pun. 

Remember you said:
 "I prefer rational thinking, logical reasoning based on evidence."
Whose evidence? The ones you worked out yourself or the ones others claimed and you accepted by 'faith'?

OLAADEGBU:


Count me out from those who agree that the earth is millions or billions of years old. When God speaks He means what He says we should not try and tell God what he means because of some imaginary men cooked up an alternative story.

All that needs to be reconciled are sinful men with the living God. God's word does not need to be reconciled with man's faulty ideologies. It is sinful men that need to be reconciled with the living God through His infallible Words. Jesus said:

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust. For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words" (John 5:45-47).

Do we believe what Moses said about God's creation?

If we who call ourselves Christians and having Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour we should take our authority from Him since He created the heavens and the earth. Listen to what He said:

"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female" (Mark 10:6).

From what our Lord Jesus said here we can see that He clearly taught that the creation of the earth was young not old and that Adam and Eve existed from "the beginning" not millions or billions of years after the earth came into existence.

And for those of you who do not take your authority from the Bible or Jesus you should consider what a historian by the name Josephus said, that the Jews of his day actually believed that both the first day of creation and Adam's creation were about 5000 years BC.

Chizzled06:


If you want 'proof of evolution', you might want to understand it first. Read a book

KingEbukasBlog:


1. Since man evolved from the ape ancestors - homo erectus - homo sapiens etc . Can you provide the ancestry line for other members of primates - monkeys , gorillas etc ?

2. Without similarity and presence of fossils , is/are there another convincing evidence(s) for evolution ?

3. Do you think there is another way to relate fossils and modern animals apart from evolution ?

Chizzled06:


DNA

KingEbukasBlog:


1. Since man evolved from the ape ancestors - homo erectus - homo sapiens etc . Can you provide the ancestry line for other members of primates - monkeys , gorillas etc ?

2. Without similarity and presence of fossils , is/are there another convincing evidence(s) for evolution ?

3. Do you think there is another way to relate fossils and modern animals apart from evolution ?

MrPresident1:
Majority of us on this thread agree that the earth is more than 6,000 years old, we also believe and hold to the fact that the Bible is infallible, I think this creates a conundrum for us because, well, according to Biblical accounts, the world is 6,000 years old.

But there can be a reconciliation, if we are willing to consider that Moses was not there when God was creating the earth, and that what Moses actually recorded as the creation of Adam actually was the first creation of man in the image and likeness of God. The first man in whom was the breadth of God, which the Word/Law of God is the breadth and Spirit of God, and so the first man to know and have the Law/Word of God.

Let us examine three key Scriptures I want to use to buttress my position;

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Deuteronomy 32:46-47
And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The willingness to accept this opens up a new paradigm to the understanding of the Word of God; the reconciliation of the Bible with science, and the liberation of the minds of our people from the shackles of ignorant religion..

I invite honoured brethren: Ishilove, Frosbel2, Davidylan, Scholar8200, Jeromejnr, Doubledeex, CaptainJune, starlingslimnet, OLAADEGBU, Xetima, KingEbukasBlog for their esteemed thoughts.

Chizzled06:


Those are very good questions and a step in the right direction, if they are honest curiosities. Understanding Darwin's theory will explain them perfectly.
If you're truly curious, you can pick up any ALevel Bioology textbook. Or better still, the internet is your very informed friend.
I really don't want to post links because there's fun in finding things out for yourself.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Goshen360:
Good debate going on here. As for me, I will rather stay with what the word of God says rather than use science to justify God's word.

Whether the science say the earth is 6000 or millions or billions of years, what does the word says and how do we interpret scriptures that will not contradict another.

MrPresident1:


Rom 3:1-2
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

It was to the Jews that the oracles of God was first committed. Israel got the law first meaning Israel knew God first, this is the creation of man in the image of God, because the law/Word of God is the Spirit of God. Without the Law/Word of God in a man, man becomes a beast. The creation of Adam in Genesis was actually the rendition of the Oracles of God to Israel first, with the ultimate command to go into the world and multiply, meaning go into the world and replicate men in the image of God by showing them my Word, civilising them.




These are the prophecies concerning the regathering of Israel, but this time it will be along with the righteous gentiles altogether they both make up the Church, the Bride of Christ. Israel will be re-gathered, from all the places where they are presently scattered, they will be re-gathered;
[b]
Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
11 For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.

Ezekiel 39:27
When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Isaiah 56:6
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.[/b]

Who are the true Israelites whom as we speak are yet to be re-gathered, but will surely be re-gathered according to the promises of The Most High God?

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Freksy:


There is nowhere in the bible where the age of the earth is mentioned.

Chizzled06:



Lol I struggle when I try to take someone who quotes biblical verses in a rational discussion seriously.
It's funny how Christians choose to ignore the vile, woman raping, child killing, mysogystic, apologetic portrayals of your God in your holy book.
Really, you know about the lost scrolls and discrepancies in the early christian versions of biblical books? That's a good start. If you study biblical and christian history from a neutral perspective, I assure you you'll find it as ridiculous as the 100,000 other world religions.

That percentage of believers only applies to America, and that figure is rapidly decreasing. Less than half of German population, like their Western European counterparts currently believe there's a God. Those figures are incredibly crunched down when you count those that believe the bible is truly God's written message to mankind.

Even more revealing, more than 90% of scientists (the smartest people on earth) are agnostic or atheist. Again, when you break free from indoctrination and start to think for yourself, there's always only one reasonable conclusion when you analyze any of the world's current religions.

Your profound argument still remains: "Since science hasn't (YET) found an explanation for THIS and THIS, then they are WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING."
If humans never left the "I can't explain it, then God did it" phase of our existence, it's scary to think how far behind we'd still be in terms of general standards of living