netotse:
@kimoni, bodashee, 5minsmadness et al
the reply left me blank, it was an ad hominem pure and simple, all the dude was doing was showing that he has good command of the english language, he didn't make any points or pass any worthwhile message across.

If his goal was to touch something in Fayose then he missed the goalpost by a mile. For people like that(people with tunnel vision), insults don't work. It's either you defeat him with logic or you ignore him.

netotse:
@kimoni, bodashee, 5minsmadness et al
the reply left me blank, it was an ad hominem pure and simple, all the dude was doing was showing that he has good command of the english language, he didn't make any points or pass any worthwhile message across.

If his goal was to touch something in Fayose then he missed the goalpost by a mile. For people like that(people with tunnel vision), insults don't work. It's either you defeat him with logic or you ignore him.

The Ekiti governor is a relic of the old order; he represents the old Nigeria of waste, of hollow ritual of noise and nuisance. Fayose is a man suffering from political depression in the aftermath of the defeat of his patriarch Goodluck Jonathan. He is a hallucinating man of the ancient, yet to come to terms with the realities of a new dawn and new Nigeria...

TV01:
For a long time now – certainly as far back as I can remember – men have been increasingly socialised to make pleasing women a driving achievement..

It’s quite obvious if one cares to look, not even too deeply sef. Most especially in the music and the movies. I’ll give a few examples below, but think about it. Magazines, TV, it’s everywhere.

Everything from Percy Sledge’ song “when a man loves a woman”, to the film “Pretty Woman”, indoctrinating men to make securing the love of women paramount – and even women of dubious nature – is relentlessly sold.

In male/female interaction – most especially of the romantic kind – it is women that can lose themselves in the love of a man, not vice-versa. A man has to see beyond his feelings for a woman – and more importantly her emotions and desires – remain focused and act strategically without being unduly influenced by either.

Failure to do so can have dire consequences. Ironically enough, a woman who feels you are subject to her whims will invariably lose respect for you and/or leave you, or cheat on you.

You job as a man is to present as one, enunciate clearly and even be somewhat chauvinist in your manhood. Revel in it, be proud of it and don’t let it be unduly compromised or coloured by any female influence. Proper manhood comes unwrapped and un-whipped.

One of the things that will engender trust, security and submissiveness in your woman is the fact that she knows you are clear-headed and focused, not subject to her whims or even your own impulses.

That you love, hour and cherish her is fine, just as long as she knows that you will not on account of that be weak, compromise or undermine your own integrity.

As a husband, don’t focus on pleasing your wife, focus on being a good husband. I say “nyet” to the saying “Happy wife, happy home”. “It’s commanding husband, strong family”.

I never ever think of pleasing my wife as the key – or even paramount – to running a successful home. I do all the things demanded of a man and husband, and she is happy or not, as the case may be.

If she feels some things need changing, or could be improved or done differently or has an idea, fine, we are always talking. I may even agree. However, her being happy is not the primary driver or of utmost importance.



TV

TV01:

In male/female interaction – most especially of the romantic kind – it is women that can lose themselves in the love of a man, not vice-versa.

netotse:
@TV
One question:
when you say commanding, what do you mean? the general idea of a "commanding" person is someone who is overbearing and insists on having his way everytime, I'm not certain that's what you're driving at, is it?

Timbuktou:
Per commanding, it's more assertiveness than tyranny. This doesn't preclude openness to superior opinion or aversion to common sense.

pickabeau1:
Nice points TV01
I think this is so important against the backdrop of Metrosexualisation of men

ApexTitan:
With the current state of affairs how many men will be able to grasp it when you say that it is women who lose themselves in the love of a man? With the growing ascendancy of the feminine imperative how many men will understand what you mean?

ApexTitan:
I'm sure you know that men are the true romantics. We are the ones that drive romance for the woman, the man is the one that invests emotionally in the idea that a woman will love him for himself - and yet strives (sometimes all of his life) to earn this love that is supposedly unconditional. How is such a man to come to terms with the fact that his pursuit of the woman's love is not the best course he should take?

5minsmadness:
I however do not subscribe to ignoring a woman's happiness though.

raumdeuter:
Coogar, No be your state governor Fayose dem dey bash so?

bodashee:


So did you watch the report?

5minsmadness:
[/quote]

[quote author=kramfonos post=37591702] The Men's Lounge in the Family Section? There's nothing much to miss there. The men there are sexist and there are always back-and-forths with 'intruding' women who double as feminists. Next they discuss football, politics and reoccuring issues from Family Section threads.

The hate there is REAL, trust me. It's one of the reasons I am not regular there.

Kimoni:

5minsmadness:

Er, Kimoni, is anything the matter?

Culled and edited from NBC News 2014

Carrin Jade is a lawyer, a yoga teacher, a freelance writer and — in her spare time — a mother to two young children. Her life is a dizzying stream of activity, made busier by the fact that she and her husband have chosen to raise their kids without the help of a nanny or full-time babysitter – just the occasional assistance of family members.

“I’ve always been wired to do too much,” said Jade, who is in her thirties and lives in New York City. “My brother is not quite the same way; I can’t just say it was the way I was raised.”

Her husband, also a lawyer, isn’t wired that way, either, but Jade says he helps out wherever he can. Jade’s days are long: She and her husband trade off working from home to watch their four-year-old and two-year-old; at night, they eat dinner after the kids have gone to sleep, then Jade stays up to plan family activities or make grocery lists.

“There are days when I’ve barely slept when I’m wondering how I’m going to get through it,” she said. “Sometimes I have more peace about it, and other times, I feel like I’m on the verge of a breakdown.”

But Jade says she can’t imagine living any other way.

She’s not alone. Despite decades of strides in the professional world, women still take on more than their share of work around the home and lag behind men when it comes to taking free time for themselves, experts say.

According to a U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics survey from June, 82 percent of women spent time doing housework, cooking or other household management on an average day, versus just 65 percent of men – and women spend longer per day doing these chores.

Total workload breakdown – time spent on housework, childcare, running errands and paid work – varies by spouses' employment status, said Sara Raley, an associate professor of sociology at McDaniel College in Maryland. “If you look at women who work part-time who are married to men who work full-time, then the workloads are about even,” she said. But in families with working mothers of young children and families with no children, women do more overall work than men.

Even female breadwinners on average do more housework and childcare than their husbands, studies have found. (Stay-at-home dads are an exception.)

With this week’s release of the Shriver Report, a document looking at women’s lives in post-recession America, NBC News asked social science experts why so many women take on so much.

Taking on 'invisible' chores

One culprit? Deep-rooted cultural assumptions about women’s position in and outside the home, says Debora Spar, president of Barnard College.

“We’ve had centuries of expectations of women’s roles, and they’re all around child-rearing, home-keeping and husband maintenance,” said Spar, author of “Wonder Women: Sex, Power, and the Quest for Perfection.” “We added to those expectations the opportunities for women to enter the workforce, but we never really, societally, rejiggered what women were supposed to do at home.”

Even young women assume that they'll bear the burden of domestic chores in marriage, said Janelle Fetterolf, a graduate student pursuing her Ph.D. in psychology at Rutgers.

In a 2011 study of more than 100 undergraduate females, women said they expected to do 60 percent of housework when they got married, Fetterolf found. “Regardless of how much they thought they would be working and their educational attainment, they always expected to do more housework and childcare than their spouse,” she said. Men were more likely than women to say men should be providing financially and that women should be taking care of the housework and childcare.

Among married couples, women often take on even more than they realize. On top of basic chores such as cooking and cleaning, “there are other things that women are doing that are almost invisible to them,” said Pamela Smock, a sociology professor at the University of Michigan. “That includes kin work, which means who sends out holiday cards, who has to get on the phone with the in-laws to make arrangements for Thanksgiving."

Letting go of perfect

Some women may not delegate to their male partners because they feel they are better at many chores – but even women who ask for assistance may not get it. “We got some signal that the guys are just slacking off. They’ll say they want to do something, and then they don’t follow through,” Rudman said. “Many men are certainly stepping up to do more, but it’s often not in their realm of expectations for themselves.”

And when men do help out with certain tasks, said Smock, they often choose chores with a “leisure component” — such as yard work or changing the oil in the car – that have a more flexible timetable than making dinner or putting a young child to bed each night.

“Women are racing all the time to try to have a perfect house and perfect kids and be a perfect cook,” she said. “Men, somehow, for whatever reason, seem to be better able to pick and choose, to focus on things they like and that are important to them, and let the other things go.”

To lessen the domestic load, Smock, the sociology professor, recommends women talk with husbands about the delegation of duties if they want to cut back.

“They’re going to have to somehow get their husbands to do more,” she said. “Come at the conversation with this kind of information. Don’t come at it in anger. Talk about what they need to do as partners for the long-term.”

Kimoni:


The above is a growing trend globally and I would say the situation is a bit worse in Nigeria but it is still a global trend/problem anyway.

These days, men are increasingly expecting working women to split the bills with them, which would be fine if women were also expecting men to share the housework. But this is clearly not the case and even where men do some housework, the ratio is highly skewed to the man's favor. And so working women are generally overworked but unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, we pride ourselves in being able to multitask which is good but of course, the side effects are there which are hard to cope with.

My story - I noticed this trend before I got married and I told myself, I won't be caught in it and fortunately, I hooked someone who shares same value. My solution to this is role separation. He is the Chairman/CEO and I am the COO of the house. He provides the capital and takes the final decision, I run the show and add my input according to my expertise. Simply put, he provides the basics - housing, food, shelter and I run with the resources. Like every normal situation, we are able to back up for each other temporarily when the need arises but the fact still remains that we both identify our primary responsibilities and we do not take any extra support for granted. Peradventure, I need help with my COO duties or I need an upgrade in the level of services he has provided, he has given me a free hand to upgrade or get help if required, hence, I have no excuses whatsoever in fulfilling my wifely duties. (I recognize the fact that this would not work for some families; I am in no way saying this is a perfect model for every family).

In reality, I see a lot of issues with couples over finances and home management and most of these issues, I personally trace to separation or non-seperation of family roles.

My question is this - do you agree that women are taking up a larger chunk of it all? what model are you running or what model do you intend to run when you are married. As a man, If you expect to split the bills, would you be happy to split the house chores(not cherry picking pls). Can you in all honestly say that your wife is not taking up more share of the overall job of running the home (financial et al.)? Do you think that in any way, mandating your wife to take up part of the traditional role of providing will affect her in submitting to you?

raumdeuter and Jaybee3 - I noted your comments earlier.

netotse:


You have a point here...even if a couple splits the bills in half there would still be this expectation that she should carry out all the typical wifely duties.

I intend to bear the bulk of the burden financially, where possible. Especially since I think housework(cleaning, washing arranging et al...DIY/washing plates isn't housework to me ) is a waste of my time. I think your model works fine, if you ask me.

netotse:


You have a point here...even if a couple splits the bills in half there would still be this expectation that she should carry out all the typical wifely duties.

I intend to bear the bulk of the burden financially, where possible. Especially since I think housework(cleaning, washing arranging et al...DIY/washing plates isn't housework to me ) is a waste of my time. I think your model works fine, if you ask me.

kaboninc:


Exactly!

And also expect her to meet her own aspect of the financial obligations.

Kimoni:


Lol...housework is a waste of ur time. Kontinu

And I have to admit most men think like that but the question is, do they also subscribe to total provision? I don't get that vibe except for a very few

netotse:


omo...I have used style to tell my madam several times o...I have no problem washing plates, changing light bulbs, fiddling with stuff but ask me to sweep, cook or arrange clothes and my body will start to do one kind (I understand there will be times I need to do more and that's fine).

I must admit I didn't really think that way until my Mum sat me down a couple of months back, my position has shifted a great deal.

Kimoni:


So, Kabonic and Netotse - what is the way forward for a working woman in this situation?

Carrin Jade is a lawyer, a yoga teacher, a freelance writer and — in her spare time — a mother to two young children.

Kimoni:


Have fun but not everyone can be hoodwinked.

ApexTitan:


Something ain't right

ApexTitan:


Something ain't right

Kimoni:


The above is a growing trend globally and I would say the situation is a bit worse in Nigeria but it is still a global trend/problem anyway.

These days, men are increasingly expecting working women to split the bills with them, which would be fine if women were also expecting men to share the housework. But this is clearly not the case and even where men do some housework, the ratio is highly skewed to the man's favor. And so working women are generally overworked but unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, we pride ourselves in being able to multitask which is good but of course, the side effects are there which are hard to cope with.

My story - I noticed this trend before I got married and I told myself, I won't be caught in it and fortunately, I hooked someone who shares same value. My solution to this is role separation. He is the Chairman/CEO and I am the COO of the house. He provides the capital and takes the final decision, I run the show and add my input according to my expertise. Simply put, he provides the basics - housing, food, shelter and I run with the resources. Like every normal situation, we are able to back up for each other temporarily when the need arises but the fact still remains that we both identify our primary responsibilities and we do not take any extra support for granted. Peradventure, I need help with my COO duties or I need an upgrade in the level of services he has provided, he has given me a free hand to upgrade or get help if required, hence, I have no excuses whatsoever in fulfilling my wifely duties. (I recognize the fact that this would not work for some families; I am in no way saying this is a perfect model for every family).

In reality, I see a lot of issues with couples over finances and home management and most of these issues, I personally trace to separation or non-seperation of family roles.

My question is this - do you agree that women are taking up a larger chunk of it all? what model are you running or what model do you intend to run when you are married. As a man, If you expect to split the bills, would you be happy to split the house chores(not cherry picking pls). Can you in all honestly say that your wife is not taking up more share of the overall job of running the home (financial et al.)? Do you think that in any way, mandating your wife to take up part of the traditional role of providing will affect her in submitting to you?

thorpido:
For single ladies,the most important decision they would ever make for themselves is 'who' they choose to marry.
In our contemporary world,most families cannot survive on income from just one partner.The woman too has to work,not just to earn an income but also because of the fulfilment of building a career for herself.It means less time for the home and more work to do.
It's very important that a woman who works and is planning to get married should look for a man that is domesticated.I don't know what a lot of girls do when dating but if I was a girl dating a guy,one of the very important things I'll look for is how you take care of your apartment.How do you get your clothes washed,the floors kept clean and your kitchen?Do you cook or eat out as a bachelor?These things would be important to me.If the man you also want to marry expect you to share bills(i believe you should have discussed this),is he also going to take up chores?
I follow the old model.I don't share bills with my wife.I practically take up the essentials,food,rent,school fees,light,gen etc.She acts as a back up and support and mainly takes care of luxuries.I however still do house work.One,because I'm used to it.I grew up doing those things and did as a bachelor.I used to wash the basket of clothes until we got a washing machine and still mop floors.Two,i'm human.If you see your partner is tired,why would you fold your arms and let her keep doing all the work?

pickabeau1:


It ain't really right

Kimoni:
Bet seriously guys, I would only be worried if that article was written by Carrin herself but it isn't.

Kimoni:


Dr T, I perfectly agree with you that these things should be discussed during courtship, and choosing a spouse is one of, if not the most important decision one will make in life. It can either make or mar one.

But again, I guess people change. Or maybe people pretend. If not, why do people love up, court for several years and still end up getting divorced. I personally know a couple that dated for 8 years and stayed married only for 7 years. I dont understand it rather than the fact that marriage changes some people. I might feel it's okay to do some things as a boyfriend/girlfriend which my girlfriend/boyfriend will take for granted and think it's settled but unfortunately, I do not believe in doing the same thing as a married. It's weird but it happens. A personal example - My husband loves to and is an expert at making the bed, he will do it perfectly without a single rumple. We got married and for a year, he was still making it but one day, he just insisted and said I should start making it. lol..I protested and told him he could make it better than I did naa. I didn't and still don't have that patience of perfectly smoothing a 6 by 6 bed . Na lie o, the young man insisted I had to do it. Gratefully, it's a petty issue so I didn't mind but I realise, this could have been a bigger issue.

Hence, I am personally not quick to ascribe issues to pre-marriage negligence. But i honestly agree that one needs to identify these issues as much as possible and talk about them during courtship.

You run the traditional model too and I think so far, the men that have responded run this model. I'll say your wife is even over lucky sef that you fully provide and are also domesticated. Pls tell her she's one lucky wife.

Lastly, I agree that it's becoming difficult for families to depend on one source of income, my problem with it is the domestication part where the woman is still fully/mostly responsible for the chores. Isn't that skewed already?