dmandy:


Welcome back!!!

I knew you would come whenever someone from your camp raises another point.

How far?

I purposely, cancelled that your claim, its unfounded and we will definitely arrive at that if you stop evading questions.

My questions for you again...... please be sincere.

Who gave you the conditions for respect?

OLAADEGBU:


"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes" (2 Timothy 2:23).

italo:


There's no "if."

It is the bible that said she is like God and knows fully.

You need to read the Bible and become a Christian.

OLAADEGBU:


Don't worship Mary if you don't want to make her cry.

1. I have learnt the fact that my right to have my source-culture respected as a diasporic subject in Canada must not trample on the right of my host-culture to her own rules and affirmations. If I want to eat squirrels, I quietly go to Nigeria in the summer. I will not stay here and insist that Canada should adjust and accommodate the consumption of squirrels for me.

2. The day I decide that I am from the Moslem parts of Africa and the freedom to alcohol in this country is part of the “decadent Western culture” that I condemn all the time while living in it, I will return to my alcohol-free blissful life in Moslem Africa and not insist that Canadians stop drinking to accommodate me.

italo:


Pls olaadegbu don't forget my questions which you've been dodging

1. Where is it written that Mary and the Saints cannot hear, then?

2. 1Cor13:12 and 1John3:2 that say we will be like God and know fully are my Church traditions?


3. What do we know and prophesy in part, that we will know and prophesy fully (according to 1Cor13:9-12 )?

OLAADEGBU:


Don't be eristic. It is said that "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". The Scripture tells us to "contend for the faith" not to be contentious about the faith.

OLAADEGBU:


Don't worship Mary if you don't want to make her cry.

dmandy:


Waoh

italo:


Why don't you answer so we can arrive at truth. Dunno why you keep dodging.

1. Where is it written that Mary and the Saints cannot hear, then?

2. 1Cor13:12 and 1John3:2 that say we will be like God and know fully are my Church traditions?


3. What do we know and prophesy in part, that we will know and prophesy fully (according to 1Cor13:9-12 )?

OLAADEGBU:


Do not be cantankerous. Check out your "Queen" down below and see who you have been 'respecting', 'honouring' and worshipping surreptitiously.

italo:


I won't but I will pray through her...since she reacts to things that happen on earth.

OLAADEGBU:


Don't be contumacious. "Come out of her" and come to Jesus today.

italo:


Which Jesus? The one that said Mary is like an Angel - who hears prayers said on earth?

the one who said to me "behold your mother?"

I'm already in him.

OLAADEGBU:


It is not the "angry Jesus" who "Mary" has to appease but the real Jesus who answers prayers.

OLAADEGBU:


It is not the "angry Jesus" who "Mary" has to appease but the real Jesus who answers prayers.

italo:


So the one Mary appeased at the wedding in Cana was angry, abi?

Well done with your foolishness.

italo:


So the one Mary appeased at the wedding in Cana was angry, abi?

Well done with your foolishness.

OLAADEGBU:


Repent and believe the gospel that says "Mary is like God 1John3:2 and knows fully 1Cor13:12."

italo:


Mary is like God 1John3:2 and knows fully 1Cor13:12

OLAADEGBU:


Stop twisting the Bible (and my words) to suit your idolatrous doctrine.

OLAADEGBU:


Can Mary hear our prayers? Can Mary or any of the dead saints hear our prayers?

OLAADEGBU:


Suggested answer:

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary can simultaneously hear the prayers of people all over the world, in different languages, spoken, and thought, an attribute that God possesses. But, the Catholic Church says that she can.

"May the Blessed Virgin hear your every prayer."(Message of John Paul II, read by H. E. Msgr. Francesco Marchisano, Grotto of our Lady of Lourdes in the Vatican Gardens, Saturday, 31 May 2003).

Roman Catholics all over the world offer prayers to Mary on a regular basis and expect her to hear them and intercede for them with God and Jesus. This is unfortunate because it isn't Biblical. They have gone beyond Scripture. They need to repent and focus on Jesus, not Mary. But, this grand repentance will not happen as long as the Roman Catholic church puts its own authority and tradition above Scripture--an error that has led it into many false teachings.

To be continued...

https://carm.org/can-mary-hear-our-prayers

OLAADEGBU:


Revelation 5:8

The main verse The Roman Catholic Church uses to support their idea about Mary hearing prayers is found in Revelation 5:8. Let's take a look at that verse in several translations.

• NASB, "When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints," (Revelation 5:8.)
• ESV, "And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints," (Revelation 5:8.)
• NAB (vatican website¹), "When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones," (Revelation 5:8.)

Nothing in that verse says that anyone hears the prayers of the saints. It is a figurative context and is not explicit. So, what do commentaries say about this verse?

• "The saints' prayers are to be identified with those of 6:9–11 and 8:4ff., which call for divine vindication of martyred believers and which are both directly linked to judgment of the ungodly."²
• "prayers of saints—as the angel offers their prayers (Rev 8:3) with incense (compare Ps 141:2). This gives not the least sanction to Rome’s dogma of our praying to saints. Though they be employed by God in some way unknown to us to present our prayers (nothing is said of their interceding for us), yet we are told to pray only to Him (Rev 19:10). Their own employment is praise (whence they all have harps): ours is prayer."³
• "The preciousness of all believers’ prayers (“the prayers of the saints”; 8:3) to the Lord is emphasized as they are described as filling gold bowls in the presence of God."⁴
• "This does not mean that Christians on earth can access believers now in heaven. It is a symbolic reminder that God remembers the prayers of His people . . . "⁵

Of course these are Protestant commentaries. Catholic ones would interpret it in favor of Mary being able to hear our prayers. But again, does the text actually say that they hear the prayers? No, it does not. The saints in heaven offering the prayers doesn't mean that they can hear the prayers of people on earth. The Roman Catholic Church has read a doctrine into the text.

Now, even if it were possible that this verse could be interpreted to mean that the saints in Heaven can hear Christians' prayers, which I don't assert is legitimate, it still does not mean that Mary can hear the prayers of people all over the world, simultaneously, both thought and spoken, and in different languages. Since Revelation 5:8 does not tell us exactly what's going on, the Roman Catholic Church should not read into it very much at all lest they exceed what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6) and violate Biblical truth. Nevertheless, let's take a look at what catholic.com says about that verse.

"As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us."⁶

If the people in Heaven are aware of the prayers, it doesn't say how they are aware. I am aware that my friends pray to God, but I don't know what those prayers are unless they tell me. I cannot read people's minds, nor do I hear the prayers they give to God unless I'm physically present with them and they're speaking out loud. So, the Roman Catholic church is stretching the verse beyond its intent and not being logical in its examination. The Catholics are committing the interpretive error called eisegesis.

To be continued...

OLAADEGBU:


Revelation 5:8

The main verse The Roman Catholic Church uses to support their idea about Mary hearing prayers is found in Revelation 5:8. Let's take a look at that verse in several translations.

• NASB, "When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints," (Revelation 5:8.)
• ESV, "And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints," (Revelation 5:8.)
• NAB (vatican website¹), "When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones," (Revelation 5:8.)

Nothing in that verse says that anyone hears the prayers of the saints. It is a figurative context and is not explicit. So, what do commentaries say about this verse?

• "The saints' prayers are to be identified with those of 6:9–11 and 8:4ff., which call for divine vindication of martyred believers and which are both directly linked to judgment of the ungodly."²
• "prayers of saints—as the angel offers their prayers (Rev 8:3) with incense (compare Ps 141:2). This gives not the least sanction to Rome’s dogma of our praying to saints. Though they be employed by God in some way unknown to us to present our prayers (nothing is said of their interceding for us), yet we are told to pray only to Him (Rev 19:10). Their own employment is praise (whence they all have harps): ours is prayer."³
• "The preciousness of all believers’ prayers (“the prayers of the saints”; 8:3) to the Lord is emphasized as they are described as filling gold bowls in the presence of God."⁴
• "This does not mean that Christians on earth can access believers now in heaven. It is a symbolic reminder that God remembers the prayers of His people . . . "⁵

Of course these are Protestant commentaries. Catholic ones would interpret it in favor of Mary being able to hear our prayers. But again, does the text actually say that they hear the prayers? No, it does not. The saints in heaven offering the prayers doesn't mean that they can hear the prayers of people on earth. The Roman Catholic Church has read a doctrine into the text.

Now, even if it were possible that this verse could be interpreted to mean that the saints in Heaven can hear Christians' prayers, which I don't assert is legitimate, it still does not mean that Mary can hear the prayers of people all over the world, simultaneously, both thought and spoken, and in different languages. Since Revelation 5:8 does not tell us exactly what's going on, the Roman Catholic Church should not read into it very much at all lest they exceed what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6) and violate Biblical truth. Nevertheless, let's take a look at what catholic.com says about that verse.

"As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us."⁶

If the people in Heaven are aware of the prayers, it doesn't say how they are aware. I am aware that my friends pray to God, but I don't know what those prayers are unless they tell me. I cannot read people's minds, nor do I hear the prayers they give to God unless I'm physically present with them and they're speaking out loud. So, the Roman Catholic church is stretching the verse beyond its intent and not being logical in its examination. The Catholics are committing the interpretive error called eisegesis.

To be continued...

OLAADEGBU:


But Heaven is different

Roman Catholics say that Heaven is not like it is here on earth and that we don't know what Mary can and cannot do in Heaven, therefore, they say, why can't she hear our prayers and answer them. But this is an argument from silence. We should not argue from what we don't know. We should argue from what we do know. To argue from what we do not know opens the door wide to saying anything. For example, the Bible does not say anything about life on other planets. Therefore, should we conclude that there is life on other planets? Of course not.This is why the Bible says that we are not to exceed what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6). It sets the Scriptures as the guide that should not be exceeded. Our admonition from Scripture is to use the Word of God as the footstool upon which we build our truths, not the ignorance of what Heaven might be like and then use it to justify a teaching about Mary that is not supported in Scripture.

To be continued...

Patheos:


She hears mine and God answers, don't know about you though

OLAADEGBU:


How are you sure that she hears your prayers, is she God who is Omnipresent?

Patheos:


Because she is now in heaven and therefore she is Divine and Godlike

OLAADEGBU:


Why would you think being in heaven makes them to become Omniscient?

Patheos:


i never said dat word