CeterisXVII:


Dem don start! So the Yoruba spoken in Kwara, does not sound Yoruba to you?? Come, have you even visited Kwara state before??

Wat about Kogi? Did i only mention Kwara? Besides their are yoruba dialets that are different from central yoruba, if u dont know that den maybe u are no yoruba.

waternogetenemy:


Ask them the Ikwerre. Even the word Ikwerre is Igbo. In Imo they have Nkwerre.


Ikwerre translate into agree in Igbo.

@bolded, Igbo translates into grass in Yoruba, Ogoni translate into stranger in Okrika, Oyigbo translates into friend in Ogoni. It is immaterial.

HopeAtHand:


Okpo Wagidi version is the one used by the people of Isiokpo and Etche as their history. Every Ikwerre clan cannot have the same history. But the one that covers a greater percentage of the clans is the Akalaka ancestry and from it you have the spread of Ikwerre towns/communities mostly in Emohua LGA and some parts of Ikwerre LGA. The people of Port Harcourt and Obio/Akpor are descendants of the downward migration and Aro activities.

If that's the case then, would you agree that some parts of Ikwerre are Igbo then?

HopeAtHand:

@bolded, Igbo translates into grass in Yoruba, Ogoni translate into stranger in Okrika, Oyigbo translates into friend in Ogoni. It is immaterial.

If your taht yoruba thread pusher resident on nairaland, stay off my mention pls. U can do ur job with mentioning my moniker.

bigfrancis21:


Yes he did. Jesus was trilingual in speech. At his time, under the Roman conquest the region was multicultural/multilingual and though nearly all Jews at the time spoke Aramaic, some of them were still able to speak Hebrew, their native tongue. Hebrew still remained as a liturgical language for the Hebrews and a good number of them were able to speak it fluently outside of the temple. It is possible Jesus spoke as many as 3 or 4 languages, including Latin. For example, when he stood in front of the Roman Pilate and answered questions, he most likely would have communicated with the Pilate in Latin, given that the Romans never bothered to learn Aramaic or any afro-asiatic languages.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Jesus_Hebrew/jesus_hebrew.html

Pls, i want to find out if you were the one that gave me the 1-month ban i recently returned.

HopeAtHand:

@bolded, Igbo translates into grass in Yoruba, Ogoni translate into stranger in Okrika, Oyigbo translates into friend in Ogoni. It is immaterial.

That's immaterial because your examples are different languages. Lingistically, Ikwerre still remains classified as an Igbo dialect. That's just what it is. Politically, it may claim something else but linguistically it is an Igbo dialect. You do not have to agree with me nor reply me though.

HopeAtHand:



Pls, i want to find out if you were the one that gave me the 1-month ban i recently returned.

Any moderator could have banned you. Just be careful how you talk.

bigfrancis21:


Yes he did. Jesus was trilingual in speech. At his time, under the Roman conquest the region was multicultural/multilingual and though nearly all Jews at the time spoke Aramaic, some of them were still able to speak Hebrew, their native tongue. Hebrew still remained as a liturgical language for the Hebrews and a good number of them were able to speak it fluently outside of the temple. It is possible Jesus spoke as many as 3 or 4 languages, including Latin. For example, when he stood in front of the Roman Pilate and answered questions, he most likely would have communicated with the Pilate in Latin, given that the Romans never bothered to learn Aramaic or any afro-asiatic languages.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Jesus_Hebrew/jesus_hebrew.html

The Romans never bothered to learn............ Do you have evidence for this claim??
Jesus was Trilingual you say he may well have been but the Lingua Franca was Aramaic and had been for 600 years before he was born. Do you have evidence he was Trilingual?

You are just speculating blindly

The point is he spoke Aramaic in communication because that was the language of the place and time .

The point is not how many languages he knew( he is God allegedly) but that Hebrew was dead and we cannot say because the Hebrews spoke Aramaic that they were Syrians. Language and Culture of people who live close by may be shared as with Hausa that does not make every speaker Hausa.
So that Ikwerre and Ibo resemble each other does not mean they are one people. They could be but language is not evidence they are

waternogetenemy:


If your taht yoruba thread pusher resident on nairaland, stay off my mention pls. U can do ur job with mentioning my moniker.

Wassup with Igbos and Yorubas?? Seems like magnet and Iron.

Pls, and pls, i am not Yoruba. Im a Dieli Ikwerre who is concerned about the attempt to Igbonise me by people like you.

waternogetenemy:
Wat about Kogi? Did i only mention Kwara? Besides their are yoruba dialets that are different from central yoruba, if u dont know that den maybe u are no yoruba.

See how you are changing your tune. You mentioned Kogi and Kwara. I corrected your error on the aspect pertaining to Kwara, because I schooled there. Have you heard Ilorin & Offa people speaking their Yoruba before? It is pure Oyo Yoruba which can be understood by virtually any Yoruba speaker. Instead of admitting your error with respect to Kwara, you are coming back to ask if I did not see Kogi.

What is my business with Kogi?

CeterisXVII:


See how you are changing your tune. You mentioned Kogi and Kwara. I corrected your error on the aspect pertaining to Kwara, because I schooled there. Have you heard Ilorin & Offa people speaking their Yoruba before? It is pure Oyo Yoruba which can be understood by virtually any Yoruba speaker. Instead of admitting your error with respect to Kwara, you are coming back to ask if I did not see Kogi.

What is my business with Kogi?

Pls dont distort wat i said to serve ur purpose. I mention both Kogi and Kwara becos i have come across yoruba from that region whose language is different from central yoruba. That is wat i said. I did not ask u about Kwara.

HopeAtHand:


Wassup with Igbos and Yorubas?? Seems like magnet and Iron.

Pls, and pls, i am not Yoruba. Im a Dieli Ikwerre who is concerned about the attempt to Igbonise me by people like you.

ur not from Rivers, u are from the SW or western minority. i can bet my car keys on dat.

bigfrancis21:


Any moderator could have banned you. Just be careful how you talk.

Well said.

bigfrancis21:


That's immaterial because your examples are different languages. Lingistically, Ikwerre still remains classified as an Igbo dialect. That's just what it is. Politically, it may claim something else but linguistically it is an Igbo dialect. You do not have to agree with me nor reply me though.

The Ikwerres call the Igbo "Isoma", and we have names for about every neighbour of ours.

Contrary to what you typed, the Ikwerre language is different from Igbo except maybe some shared words. If i took you and dropped you in Ikwerre village, you'd ask for an interpreter.

bigfrancis21:


That's immaterial because your examples are different languages. Lingistically, Ikwerre still remains classified as an Igbo dialect. That's just what it is. Politically, it may claim something else but linguistically it is an Igbo dialect. You do not have to agree with me nor reply me though.

Classified where by whom?


That is nonsense . There is one linguistic authorith on so called Igboid languages Kay something I forget her name now and she never classified Ikwerre as an Igbo dialects rather they are different languages of the same family
https://www.nairaland.com/421192/not-igbo-ikwerre/11

waternogetenemy:
Pls dont distort wat i said to serve ur purpose. I mention both Kogi and Kwara becos i have come across yoruba from that region whose language is different from central yoruba. That is wat i said. I did not ask u about Kwara.

You are the one citing an example you are NOT familiar with. You mentioned two states as an example. I corrected your gaffe with respect to one of the states, and you are still here splitting hairs about the second one.

Let me repeat it again very slowly, maybe you will understand it - the Yoruba spoken in Kwara State (not Kogi) can easily be understood by other Yoruba speakers, because it is Central Oyo Yoruba.

So Kwara should NOT even have been included in your example at all. Please correct yourself.

HopeAtHand:
Wassup with Igbos and Yorubas?? Seems like magnet and Iron.

Pls, and pls, i am not Yoruba. Im a Dieli Ikwerre who is concerned about the attempt to Igbonise me by people like you.

Guy, by now you should know their default setting. Anybody that does not agree with any story they push out, is automatically a yoruba man. Don't you get it?

waternogetenemy:


ur not from Rivers, u are from the SW or western minority. i can bet my car keys on dat.

Actually, Ikwerres from my appearance think im Igbo. I have nothing to prove to you. This is a faceless forum, take it that im Ikwerre or leave.

HopeAtHand:


Well said.

The Ikwerres call the Igbo "Isoma", and we have names for about every neighbour of ours.

Contrary to what you typed, the Ikwerre language is different from Igbo except maybe some shared words. If i took you and dropped you in Ikwerre village, you'd ask for an interpreter.

That is becos, Ikwerre are mixed with Akwa Ibom and Bayelsa. Wen two or more ethnic group mix, the language becomes mix too.


All indication is that Ikwerre are Igbo but speak Ikwerre dialect which is a mixture from inter-marriage with neighbouring non igbo tribes.

HopeAtHand:


The records are there. Like you pointed out the Willinks commission, Ikwerres had always tried whenever the opportunity arose to present their case. The British actually left us to sort ourselves in the new republic. And we got ourselves sorted perfectly after the war.

The Igbos will not like to hear this, but the truth and history are on our side, they can resort to blackmail, but it doesnt bother us one bit what they say about our identity before 1970 as the records show concerted Ikwerre efforts in achieving a distinct identify during colonial times and shortly after independence.

They have decided to carry the ineptitude and magnanimous failure of Ojukwus biafra and heap on Ikwerres as tge reason for their loss. We only look at them and laugh.

am posting this for posterity's sake.let it never be said that we Igbo's stood down in the face of mendacity.
Home / News / WILLINK REPORT 1958 THE FOLLOWING ARE EXCERPTS FROM A THE REPORT OF THE COMMISSION APPOINTED TO “ENQUIRE INTO THE FEARS OF MINORITIES AND THE MEANS OF ALLAYING THEM”, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS “THE WILLINK COMMISSION REPORT OF JULY 1958”
WILLINK REPORT 1958 THE FOLLOWING ARE EXCERPTS FROM A THE REPORT OF THE COMMISSION APPOINTED TO “ENQUIRE INTO THE FEARS OF MINORITIES AND THE MEANS OF ALLAYING THEM”, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS “THE WILLINK COMMISSION REPORT OF JULY 1958”
 January 4, 2014  News
 1,400 Views
THE HISTORICAL AND POLITICAL BACKGROUND.
1. “More than 98% of people who inhabit this area (the ‘Ibo Plateau’ of the Eastern region) are Ibo and speak one language, though of course with certain differences of dialect. There are nearly five million of them and they are too many for the soil to support: they are vigorous and intelligent and have pushed outward in every direction, seeking a livelihood by trade or in service in the surrounding areas of the Eastern Region, in the Western Region, in the North and outside Nigeria. They are no more popular with their neighbours than is usual in the case of an energetic and expanding people whose neighbours have a more leisurely outlook on life.”
2. “Though there has been no great kingdom or indigenous culture in the Eastern Region, the coastal chiefs grew on their trade with the (European merchant) ships and they adopted customs, clothing and housing more advanced than those of the peoples of the interior on whom they had at first preyed for slaves. They came during the 19th Century to regard the people of the interior as backward and ignorant, and it was therefore a blow to their pride, as well as to their pockets, when the Ibos began to push outwards into the surrounding fringe of the country and particularly into the Calabar area, to take up land, to grow rich, to own houses and lorries and occupy posts in public services and in the services of large trading firms.”
“It was among the Ibos, formerly despised by the people of Calabar as source of slaves and as a backward people of the interior, now feared and disliked as energetic and educated, that the first political party formed.”
3. “It is important to remember that of this (Ogoja) Province’s 1,082,000 inhabitants, 723,000 are Ibos, almost entirely in Abakaliki and Afikpo (Divisions), while the census classifies 350,000 as “Other Nigerian Tribes.”
4. The Rivers Province …includes the two divisions of Brass and Degema, both overwhelmingly Ijaw, and the Ogoni Division. The former Rivers Division also includes over 300,000 Ibos of whom 250,000 are in Ahoada Division and 45,000 in Port Harcourt. Port Harcourt is a town of recent growth and of rapidly increasing importance; it is built on land that blonged originally to an outlying branch of the Ibo tribe, the Diobus, but is largely inhabited by the Ibos from the interior who have come to trade or seek employment….Of the total 747,000 in the Rivers province, 305,000 are Ibos, 240,000 are Ijaws and 156,000 are Ogonis.”
5. “The strip to the south of the Ibo block, is physically, divided by a block of Ibo territory, tipped by the important Ibo town of Port Harcourt and tribally divided between the Ijaws and the Ogonis.”
6. “In the whole of this non-Ibo area there is present in varying degree some fear of being over-run, commercially and politically, by the Ibos….. if Ahoada and Port Harcourt, which are really Ibo, are considered with the solid centre of Ibo population, there are 54 seats for the Ibo area and 30 for COR (Calabar, Ogoja and Rivers) in (Eastern Regional House of Assembly).”
THE FEARS AND GRIEVANCES OF MINORITIES
7. “It was suggested (by non-Ibo petitioners) that it was the deliberate object of the Ibo majority in the Region to fill every post with Ibos (in public post and services).….when, however we came to consider specific complaints about the composition of public bodies, we found them in many cases exaggerated or unreasonable.”
8. “The allegation was put forward by counsel (to petitioners) that the Judiciary (when not European) was predominantly Ibo, with the implication that this caused fear among those who are not Ibos. But it was clearly stated in evidence by Dr. Udoma, the leader of UNIP, that no occasion could be adduced of the judiciary acting with partiality. The fact is that the legal profession is largely Ibos and the reasons for this do not seem to be Government action. It is therefore inevitable that there should be an Ibo preponderance among Judges and Magistrates. Further, it is the declared policy of Government that the Judiciary should be federal and this does not indicate a desire to control it. Again, the operation and composition of Public Service Commission here, as in the West, appeared to us in no way open to reproach.”
9. “In the Police, which in this region alone is wholly Federal, the number of Ibos in the higher appointments is not out of proportion to the Ibos in the region. The force is now federally controlled and although there are a large number of Ibos in the lower ranks, this is due to the fact that it has for long been a tradition among the Ibos to offer themselves for recruitment in this force in far greater numbers than any other tribe.”
10. “we noted that in five years, 1952 – 1957, from a total of 412 secondary scholarships, 216 were awarded to persons living in the COR areas, while the figures for post-secondary scholarships were 211 out of 623. The latter is about the right proportion of one-third, the former considerably in excess. It was suggested that scholarships awarded to non-Ibos were of an inferior kind and that the best scholarships went to Ibos, but we were, unable to see that this claim held any validity. On the evidence before us, we conclude that the allegations of discriminations in the matter of scholarships are unjustified.”
11. “It was further suggested that loans by the Eastern Regional Finance Corporation, the Eastern Region Development Board, and the Eastern Region Development Corporation were made with some degree of preference to Ibos. It did appear that most of the loans made by these bodies were to Ibos, but that is not to say that this was necessarily improper. Ibos constitute two thirds of the population of the region and have a bigger share of financial and commercial responsibility than their numbers warrant.”
12. “That there should be modern streetlight in Onitsha, and not Calabar, was also quoted as example of discrimination; it proved however that Onitsha Urban District Council had financed this measure from their own resources.”
13. “The question of land was repeatedly raised, it being resented by the Efiks and Ibibios that the Ibos should acquire land at all in their territory while the methods by which it was obtained were also questioned. There is no doubt that on the Ibo Plateau there is insufficient land for the people and the Ibos ate thrusting outwards where possible they acquire land and use it either for cultivation or building…..This is a matter which will require legislation sooner or later and it will be delicate to handle, but the economic process is in itself healthy and we had little sympathy with a witness who remarked that there is much undeveloped land in district and he was anxious that it should not fall into the hand of the Ibos….We believe that Governments in Nigeria should be careful not to try to protect minorities by introducing measures that would restrict development.”
14. “A group of miscellaneous grievances and charges against the Ibos from Calabar may be treated together; we were told that the Ibos did not observe local customs in the markets….We formed the impression that jealousy of the Ibos successes in the markets was the main factor.”
THE PROPOSAL FOR NEW STATES
15. “The Ogoja state proposed to us would include former Ogoja province, whose population of slightly more than One million include more than 700,000 Ibos…the main intention would be separation from the central body of Ibo population, but in which they will still be linked together with as a minority with their Ibo neighbours in Abakaliki and Afikpo…A majority of evidence we heard from Ogoja was direct that they preferred the present situation to any association with Calabar and that they were at least as much afraid of domination by Efiks and Ibibios as by Ibos.”
16. “The (Calabar, Ogoja and Rivers or COR) state proposed would consist of Calabar, Rivers and Ogoja provinces excluding the two Ibo Divisions of Abakaliki and Afikpo. The population of this area is 2,649,000 and the following would be the five largest tribes:
Ibibio 717,000
Annang 435,000
Ibo 428,000
Ijaw 251,000
Ogoni 156,000
As already explained, the small but important Efik tribe of 71,000…The (COR) area is far from homogenous , and many of the other tribes expressed at least as much fear of the Efiks and Ibibios as of the Ibo. It would leave the Ibos of the Ibo Plateau surrounded by a state whose reason for existence was hostility to themselves: the Ibos are an expanding people…”
17. “The area claimed for Rivers state consists of the whole of the Rivers province, that is: The Division of Brass, Degema, Ogoni, Port Harcourt and Ahoada, together with the Western Ijaw Division from the western region, and two small sections in the Eastern Region from outside the Rivers Province, Opodo and Andoni being one, Ndoki the other.”
18. “Port Harcourt is an Ibo town and it is growing rapidly and the indigenous branch of the Ibos who are original inhabitants are already out-numbered by Ibos from the hinterland.”
19. “The people of Ahoada, a Division of which a pan runs down to meet Port Harcourt, appear at one time to have favoured the idea of a Rivers state, but have changed their views and before us expressed themselves as strongly against it. Comparatively few of them live in the low-lying swampy country of the coastal strip and they have voted for the NCNC consistently, they said themselves that a main factor in their change of front had been the inclusion if the Western Ijaws in the proposed state. So long, they said, as the Rivers state was to consist of the River Province only, the Ibos would have been the most numerous tribe within it: but the inclusion of the Western Ijaw Division put them at a numerical disadvantage beside the Ijaws and they therefore preferred to stay out. Whether or not this was a line of reasoning that really had a wide appeal, the fact remain that before us they were opposed to the idea of the state. This is not surprising because their problems are different from those of the ijaws.”
20. “To include within a River state Ahoada and Port Harcourt, would, we believe, create a problem as acute as that with which we were asked to deal at present and and would be sharply resented by the Ibos of the central plateau.
”http://scannewsnigeria.com/news/willink-report-1958-the-following-are-excerpts-from-a-the-report-of-the-commission-appointed-to-enquire-into-the-fears-of-minorities-and-the-means-of-allaying-them-otherwise-known-a/

it would cost me just a little megabyte to rebutte dishonesty ,and the truth is worth it.

We have debated the report and its background several times so you are not adding anything new


https://www.nairaland.com/421192/not-igbo-ikwerre/11

HopeAtHand:
Pls, i want to find out if you were the one that gave me the 1-month ban i recently returned.

It is likely to be bigfrancis21. Mods are expected to be impartial and objective. I am not sure he got the memo. If you check the offence you committed to deserve that 1-month ban, you will discover that it is nothing as grievous as the one committed by his fellow pro-Biafra supporters, who are left to continue roaming around scot free, irrespective of the number of insults they dish out on a daily basis.

You may come here in another 1 hour and you will discover they have hidden this post or even banned my handle. No wahala. Such an action will only confirm all I have said.

OPCNAIRALAND:


In all Ikwerre names Ive seen Im yet to see one that is not Ibo. You cannot pronounce Ibo name and with sense and meaning unless the tongue is also Ibo speaking or proto Ibo.

You see that's because Ikwerre is an Igbo dialect. 100 years ago, just like Yoruba, the Igbo ethnic consciousness did not exist. Every Igbo speaking clan existed on its own and identified itself according to its clan. Then an Nnewi man would tell you he was Nnewi not Igbo, same for Awka etc. An example of this is that Igbo slaves that were taken to America were surprised to get there and were being called 'Igbo' by the whites and many of them mentioned that they had never heard that name before neither were they called that name back home. This was in the 1700s and 1800s. When these slaves were asked where they came from, they gave their respective village names - okigwe, okwelle, etc. Igbo is simply a collective name for all bia-speaking clans that speak dialects or variants of the same language. The Igbo ethnic consciousness was introduced by the British and reached its height circa the civil war and after the Igbos lost the civil war, some Igbo clans, especially those out of the SE zone, found it convenient to deny being Igbo to curry favour with the Nigerian government. As part of this denial process, they tried to come up with false histories of migration to 'support' their 'distinctness'. It would surprise you that the Ikwerres are mainly descendants of Arochukwu people, Orlu people and Awka people and the so-called Bini tale of migration was started recently, less than 5 years ago. After the civil war, Igbo land was dissected to remove oil-rich areas (for example a big village in imo state, egbema, was divided into two, the oil rich half was carved out of imo state into rivers and the oil-less part was left in imo state. Now oil divides a formerly united village. Going from egbema in imo state into egbema in rivers state, the half in imo tells you they are proud Igbos and the other half in rivers tells you they are not Igbos - and they are one village that shares a common ancestry) and the remaining areas were altogether called 'south east zone'. The Igbo clans outside this SE zone found it easy to deny being Igbo simply because they are not in the SE zone. In other words, for these people being inside/outside the SE zone became an identifier of who is Igbo or not, not the language spoken or the names borne. The Ikwerres, especially, in Rivers state propagated this distinctness the most, they changed their town names formerly in central Igbo (for the ease for many to understand) to their more native Ikwerre dialect equivalents still with the same meanings, just differences in dialectical spellings. Many stopped speaing Igbo with Igbos from other areas and feigned ignorance of the language and would only speak Igbo amongst themselves, even till today in PH.

Many do not realize that boundary lines are very artificial and can be easily adjusted. The solution to this problem is a simple one. For example, if Ndoni in Rivers state (speak similar dialects with Ukwuani of Delta state and are located close to the boundaries with Anambra) had been included in Anambra state since its creation, there would be no dissident voices amongst them about being Igbo or not. Or simply put, adjust boundary lines to include Egbema in rivers state, Etche and Ogba in rivers state etc. into Imo state where they linguistically belong, Ndoni in Rivers state to Anambra and Obigbo/Ndoki in Rivers state to Abia state where they linguistically belong and watch these people take on the new identity of their state. You would find out that being in a state can really shape the identity of the people within. If today the polity of Rivers state is dissolved, the identity of the people would be changed or modified, because the identity of the people within rivers state is what it is today simply because they are in Rivers state.

Finally, I think that this Ikwerre issue is being given more attention than is deserved. The Igbo bulk from the SE zone and parts of Delta Igbo have longed moved on since the civil war to create good names for themselves. However, the Ikwerres still seem to be stuck in the 1970s era when it was fashionable to deny being Igbo to increase your chances of being accepted by other Nigerians, getting a job in the civil service etc. Also, the Ikwerres have not moved along with the Igbos since the last 40 years in terms of collective consciousness and behavior. While the Igbos from the hinterland are more determined to work hard, the Ikwerres tend to be more laid-back in general attitude towards life. For this reason, you can count only a very few prominent Ikwerre people who are successful.

bigfrancis21:


You see that's because Ikwerre is an Igbo dialect. 100 years ago, just like Yoruba, the Igbo ethnic consciousness did not exist. Every Igbo speaking clan existed on its own and identified itself according to its clan. Then an Nnewi man would tell you he was Nnewi not Igbo, same for Awka etc. An example of this is that Igbo slaves that were taken to America were surprised to get there and were being called 'Igbo' by the whites and many of them mentioned that they had never heard that name before neither were they called that name back home. This was in the 1700s and 1800s. When these slaves were asked where they came from, they gave their respective village names - okigwe, okwelle, etc. Igbo is simply a collective name for all bia-speaking clans that speak dialects or variants of the same language. The Igbo ethnic consciousness was introduced by the British and reached its height circa the civil war and after the Igbos lost the civil war, some Igbo clans, especially those out of the SE zone, found it convenient to deny being Igbo to curry favour with the Nigerian government. As part of this denial process, they tried to come up with false histories of migration to 'support' their 'distinctness'. It would surprise you that the Ikwerres are mainly descendants of Arochukwu people, Orlu people and Awka people and the so-called Bini tale of migration was started recently, less than 5 years ago. After the civil war, Igbo land was dissected to remove oil-rich areas (for example a big village in imo state, egbema, was divided into two, the oil rich half was carved out of imo state into rivers and the oil-less part was left in imo state. Now oil divides a formerly united village. Going from egbema in imo state into egbema in rivers state, the half in imo tells you they are proud Igbos and the other half in rivers tells you they are not Igbos - and they are one village that shares a common ancestry) and the remaining areas were altogether called 'south east zone'. The Igbo clans outside this SE zone found it easy to deny being Igbo simply because they are not in the SE zone. In other words, for these people being inside/outside the SE zone became an identifier of who is Igbo or not, not the language spoken or the names borne. The Ikwerres, especially, in Rivers state propagated this distinctness the most, they changed their town names formerly in central Igbo (for the ease for many to understand) to their more native Ikwerre dialect equivalents still with the same meanings, just differences in dialectical spellings. Many stopped speaing Igbo with Igbos from other areas and feigned ignorance of the language and would only speak Igbo amongst themselves, even till today in PH.

Many do not realize that boundary lines are very artificial and can be easily adjusted. The solution to this problem is a simple one. For example, if Ndoni in Rivers state (speak similar dialects with Ukwuani of Delta state and are located close to the boundaries with Anambra) had been included in Anambra state since its creation, there would be no dissident voices amongst them about being Igbo or not. Or simply put, adjust boundary lines to include Egbema in rivers state, Etche and Ogba in rivers state etc. into Imo state where they linguistically belong, Ndoni in Rivers state to Anambra and Obigbo/Ndoki in Rivers state to Abia state where they linguistically belong and watch these people take on their new identity. You would find out that being in a state can really shape the identity of the people within. If today the polity of Rivers state is dissolved, the identity of the people would be changed or modified, because the identity of the people within rivers state is what it is today simply because they are in Rivers state.

What you have written is valid for identity maybe but has nothing to do with linguistics and linguistic classification which is a different matter and discipline, Both languages have been studied exhaustively and they have similar origins but the one is not subordinate to the other.
They are different languages

Do not compare the Yoruba to Igbo. Igbos existed as clans whilst the Yoruba were the Oyo a Nation state which conquered other Nation states . Yes Ekiti Ijebu and so on were not part of the Yoruba Identity i,e Oyo but you cannot compare that to the hamlet level existence that was present in what is now Igboland

There were no nation states in what is now Igbolan but clans

CeterisXVII:


It is likely to be bigfrancis21. Mods are expected to be impartial and objective. I am not sure he got the memo. If you check the offence you committed to deserve that 1-month ban, you will discover that it is nothing as grievous as the one committed by his fellow pro-Biafra supporters, who are left to continue roaming around scot free, irrespective of the number of insults they dish out on a daily basis.

You may come here in another 1 hour and you will discover they have hidden this post or even banned my handle. No wahala. Such an action will only confirm all I have said.

First, that was not me. Second, I just reviewed her ban log now and the offence for which the moderator (whom I won't mention his name) banned her was grave as she made a very tribalistic comment, against the rules of nairaland.

HopeAtHand:


Well said.

The Ikwerres call the Igbo "Isoma", and we have names for about every neighbour of ours.

Contrary to what you typed, the Ikwerre language is different from Igbo except maybe some shared words. If i took you and dropped you in Ikwerre village, you'd ask for an interpreter.

some parts of ngwa land generalise other igboid groups as NDE ohuhu, the Igbo's across the Niger where termed ika Igbo - those these makes this groups less Igbo?
as for language differences, it would surprise you to know that the abia south man would understand ikwerre (most especially if spoken slowly) than he would his ebonyi brethren. what other thesis do you have to show your distinctive ethnicity

omonnakoda:


What you have written is valid for identity maybe but has nothing to do with linguistics and linguistic classification which is a different matter and discipline, Both languages have been studied exhaustively and they have similar origins but the one is not subordinate to the other.
They are different languages

Do not compare the Yoruba to Igbo. Igbos existed as clans whilst the Yoruba were the Oyo a Nation state which conquered other Nation states . Yes Ekiti Ijebu and so on were not part of the Yoruba Identity i,e Oyo but you cannot compare that to the hamlet level existence that was present in what is now Igboland

There were no nation states in what is now Igbolan but clans

My post was to opcnairaland. Why you're salivating over my post, I do not understand.

bigfrancis21:


You see that's because Ikwerre is an Igbo dialect. 100 years ago, just like Yoruba, the Igbo ethnic consciousness did not exist. Every Igbo speaking clan existed on its own and identified itself according to its clan. Then an Nnewi man would tell you he was Nnewi not Igbo, same for Awka etc. An example of this is that Igbo slaves that were taken to America were surprised to get there and were being called 'Igbo' by the whites and many of them mentioned that they had never heard that name before neither were they called that name back home. This was in the 1700s and 1800s. When these slaves were asked where they came from, they gave their respective village names - okigwe, okwelle, etc. Igbo is simply a collective name for all bia-speaking clans that speak dialects or variants of the same language. The Igbo ethnic consciousness was introduced by the British and reached its height circa the civil war and after the Igbos lost the civil war, some Igbo clans, especially those out of the SE zone, found it convenient to deny being Igbo to curry favour with the Nigerian government. As part of this denial process, they tried to come up with false histories of migration to 'support' their 'distinctness'. I [b] t would surprise you that the Ikwerres are mainly descendants of Arochukwu people, Orlu people and Awka people and the so-called Bini tale of migration was started recently, less than 5 years ago. After the civil war, Igbo land was dissected to remove oil-rich areas (for example a big village in imo state, egbema, was divided into two, the oil rich half was carved out of imo state into rivers and the oil-less part was left in imo state. Now oil divides a formerly united village. Going from egbema in imo state into egbema in rivers state, the half in imo tells you they are proud Igbos and the other half in rivers tells you they are not Igbos - and they are one village that shares a common ancestry) and the remaining areas were altogether called 'south east zone'. The Igbo clans outside this SE zone found it easy to deny being Igbo simply because they are not in the SE zone. In other words, for these people being inside/outside the SE zone became an identifier of who is Igbo or not, not the language spoken or the names borne. [/b] The Ikwerres, especially, in Rivers state propagated this distinctness the most, they changed their town names formerly in central Igbo (for the ease for many to understand) to their more native Ikwerre dialect equivalents still with the same meanings, just differences in dialectical spellings. Many stopped speaking Igbo with Igbos from other areas and feigned ignorance of the language and would only speak Igbo amongst themselves, even till today in PH.

Many do not realize that boundary lines are very artificial and can be easily adjusted. The solution to this problem is a simple one. For example, if Ndoni in Rivers state (speak similar dialects with Ukwuani of Delta state and are located close to the boundaries with Anambra) had been included in Anambra state since its creation, there would be no dissident voices amongst them about being Igbo or not. Or simply put, adjust boundary lines to include Egbema in rivers state, Etche and Ogba in rivers state etc. into Imo state where they linguistically belong, Ndoni in Rivers state to Anambra and Obigbo/Ndoki in Rivers state to Abia state where they linguistically belong and watch these people take on the new identity of their state. You would find out that being in a state can really shape the identity of the people within. If today the polity of Rivers state is dissolved, the identity of the people would be changed or modified, because the identity of the people within rivers state is what it is today simply because they are in Rivers state.

Finally, I think that this Ikwerre issue is being given more attention than is deserved. The Igbo bulk from the SE zone and parts of Delta Igbo have longed moved on since the civil war to create good names for themselves. However, the Ikwerres still seem to be stuck in the 1970s era when it was fashionable to deny being Igbo to increase your chances of being accepted by other Nigerians, getting a job in the civil service etc. Also, the Ikwerres have not moved along with the Igbos since the last 40 years in terms of collective consciousness and behavior. While the Igbos from the hinterland are more determined to work hard, the Ikwerres tend to be more laid-back in general attitude towards life. For this reason, you can count only a very few prominent Ikwerre people who are successful.

A simple DNA test settles it once and for all time. Maybe alot of this claims should be settled via DNA test.


Bini dat could not make it across the River Niger are claiming Rivers State, isn't that funny. Even the Bini throne has its roots in Eze Nri.



Igbos brought kingship to the western region. (South west)

HopeAtHand:


Well said.

The Ikwerres call the Igbo "Isoma", and we have names for about every neighbour of ours.

Contrary to what you typed, the Ikwerre language is different from Igbo except maybe some shared words. If i took you and dropped you in Ikwerre village, you'd ask for an interpreter.

The urattas of imo also call other igbos isoma. Your argument is immaterial.

First of all, do you know the history behind the term, 'isoma'?

omonnakoda:
Well we first have to define what is Ibo

Arabs bear Ibrahim and Jews bear Abraham,Solomon Suleiman and so on. So rather than say they are "Ibo names" Ikwerre can claim they are Ikwerre names appropriated by Ibos. What makes the names Ibo? because Ibo are more?. There is no logic to that .
There is also another hypothesis that both groups have the same origin but are distinct and the names come from that earlier origin.
The other thing is Language has very little to do with origin.
The fact that most of the SW speak Yoruba does not mean they have the same origin or ancestors.
The vast majority of North Africa now speak some variant of Arabic but they are not really Arabs ethnically
Certainly Egyptians are not Arabs but many have now forgotten that

bigfrancis21:


With your argument I can argue that Itshekiri and Yoruba bear similar names, which must be of Itshekiri origin and not Yoruba, but appropriated by Yoruba. You see how your reasoning gets twisted when it comes to Igbo matters but in Yoruba matters you suddenly become sober?

This post was not addressed to you so let us make a deal you do not quote me ever in your life and I avoid you too?
Otherwise stop being ridiculous

bigfrancis21:


The urattas of imo also call other igbos isoma. Your argument is immaterial.

First of all, do you know the history behind the term, 'isoma'?

I cnt know everything.

HopeAtHand:


Well said.

The Ikwerres call the Igbo "Isoma", and we have names for about every neighbour of ours.

Contrary to what you typed, the Ikwerre language is different from Igbo except maybe some shared words. If i took you and dropped you in Ikwerre village, you'd ask for an interpreter.

If I went to Ebonyi I would have some difficult time understanding their dialect. It doesn't mean it is not Igbo. The dialect is tough to understand. Same for some interior parts of Ikwerre.

In certain parts of England, the British accent spoken in those villages is so hard to understand that a first timer would think it is not English, but it is English. The British accent of London is the more 'centralized' English accent sort of. However, if you move deeper into the interior of England, into some places like cockney, Manchester, etc. you would not understand the English variant spoken there, but it is English. London English is the 'city English' and cockney English is the 'village English', just as PH Igbo is to Ndele Igbo.

Dialect intelligibility is not a determining factor for the distinctness of languages.

He is not talking about intelligibility but lexicon they are completely different