Happy new year peeps.

I like to read and have read life of women in ancient Greece, Sparta, Rome, Athens etc.

Who can help with lives of women in ancient /pre-colonial Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa tribes?

How did they interact with their husbands, earning power, rights, limitations, inheritance, education, child care, extented family, position in family etc.

It will be interesting learning in details about our foremothers and curious to learn what has changed.

Stillfire; Mmotimo; Cococandy; Byvan03; Ifyalways; Mindfulness etc.

Tell us the tribe you are rep ping and sources if available.

bukatyne:
Happy new year peeps.

I like to read and have read life of women in ancient Greece, Sparta, Rome etc.

Who can help with lives of women in ancient /pre-colonial Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa tribes?

How did they interact with their husbands, earning power, rights, limitations etc.

It will be interesting learning about our fore

The little i know about the pre colonial igbo women....
They are seen as second class citizens in the family....They are groomed to help their husbands in farm work as well as to submissive to them. They dare not question his authority....The pre colonial igbo woman is respected by the number of sons she has for her husband...
They are not allowed to take part in decision making process of any kind in the community.

They are limited to planting of crops like cocoyam, maize, cassava etc. They are not allowed to plant crops like yam which is regarded as king of the crops...
They are not allowed to tap palm wine nor climb palm trees.



Source :Folk tales
novels like Things fall apart
Efuru.

Olanna45:
The little i know about the pre colonial igbo women....
They are seen as the second class citizens in the family....They are groomed to help there husbands in farm work as well as to submissive to them. They dare not question his authority....The pre colonial igbo woman is respected by the number of sons she has for her husband...
They are not allowed to take part in decision making process of any kind in the community.

They limited to planting of crops like cocoyam, maize, cassava etc. They are not allowed to plant the yam which is regarded as king of the crops...
They are not allowed to tap palm wine nor climb palm trees.

Olanna45:
The little i know about the pre colonial igbo women....
They are seen as the second class citizens in the family....They are groomed to help there husbands in farm work as well as to submissive to them. They dare not question his authority....The pre colonial igbo woman is respected by the number of sons she has for her husband...
They are not allowed to take part in decision making process of any kind in the community.

They limited to planting of crops like cocoyam, maize, cassava etc. They are not allowed to plant the yam which is regarded as king of the crops...
They are not allowed to tap palm wine nor climb palm trees.

Thanks aND happy new year.

So for Igbos....

1. There was the drive to have a lot of sons
2. They were not involved in any decision making process
3. They did not plant cash crops or tap palm wine...
4. They were 2nd class citizens and must be submissive

Is the culture still same or have some things been done away with? What about divorce, polygamy, inheritance? How was the honw run? Chores? I hear about an Igbo woman marrying a 'wife' for herself... can you explain? What did the women do for recreation? Pre-martial se.,X, how did a woman find a husband? What is the usual age gap BTW couples? How was issue resolved between the couple etc.

I am not talking on individual level, I am talking cultural.

dingbang:

Na only kiss you sabi?

bukatyne:


Thanks aND happy new year.

So for Igbos....

1. There was the drive to have a lot of sons
2. They were not involved in any decision making process
3. They did not plant cash crops or tap palm wine...
4. They were 2nd class citizens and must be submissive

Is the culture still same or have some things been done away with? What about divorce, polygamy, inheritance? I hear about a woman marrying a 'wife' for herself... can you explain? What did the women do for recreation? Pre-martial se.,X etc.

I am not talking on individual level, I am talking cultural.

1) Yes. The girl child is regarded as not being so important. Like she grows up, gets married its the male child who continues the lineage.

2) yes... They are not allowed, though there might some exceptions in this.

3) They are allowed to own cash crops, but they are not allowed to own yam barns...
Most atimes, the cash crops are given to them by their husbands so they feed their children with its proceeds.

4) yes. 2nd class citizen in the sense that the male child comes first.. His needs are considered to be more important.
As for submission, it is a must. Even if your husband is useless(sorry for the choice of word)

Coming to inheritance, an igbo woman has no inheritance in her father's house. There is a proverb which says "Onye iberibe amaghi na adanne ya bu obia"
A fool do not know that his elder sister is a visitor in their father's house"

Polygamy; A typical igbo man sees polygamy as an achievement. More wives, more sons, more yam barns.

Divorce: it is not allowed. A widow is more accepted in the pre colonial igbo society than a female divorceee... She will be tagged as a bad wife. No one cares to know the reason for the divorce.

Recreation;

The most common form recreation for the pre colonial woman is dancing. Dance groups are formed according to age grades.

Pre marital sex is a no no. If the husband finds out she has being deflowered before marriage, the man has the right to return her to her father's house and collect the bride price back. Such a lady will be stigmatized, the shame will be extended to the father and siblings. The father will portion the whole blame on the wife.


The issue of a woman' marrying' a wife for herself is very common in the pre colonial days and it is still been practiced by some communities today.

A barren woman might decide to marry a young lady, in most cases the ladies being married are those with unwanted pregnancies, divorcees, childless widows.. This lady is allowed to sleep with any man, once she concieves and put to bed, the child bears the name of the woman who married the mother... The father is just a sperm donor. He has no right over the child.

This mostly done by barren women, wonen who had only female children..

I really can't say that some of these practices has been done away with. Families these make the decision on how they wish to treat their girl child. But in a typical igbo community, nothing has changed.

bukatyne:


Na only kiss you sabi?

and I can cuddle too...

dingbang:
and I can cuddle too...

*hisses in Chinese*

Olanna45 is really sweating to type, na kiss and cuddle you fit contribute for the thread abi?

Oya shift

bukatyne:


*hisses in Chinese*

Olanna45 is really sweating to type, na kiss and cuddle you fit contribute for the thread abi?

Oya shift

Lol. Seriously ma'am i suck at typing.

bukatyne:


*hisses in Chinese*

Olanna45 is really sweating to type, na kiss and cuddle you fit contribute for the thread abi?

Oya shift

what is this one saying? Are u olanna? Gbaza queen

bukatyne:
Happy new year peeps.

I like to read and have read life of women in ancient Greece, Sparta, Rome, Athens etc.

Who can help with lives of women in ancient /pre-colonial Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa tribes?

How did they interact with their husbands, earning power, rights, limitations, inheritance, education, child care, extented family, position in family etc.

It will be interesting learning in details about our foremothers and curious to learn what has changed.

Stillfire; Mmotimo; Cococandy; Byvan03; Ifyalways; Mindfulness etc.

Tell us the tribe you are rep ping and sources if available.

Stillfire or Stillwater is the best pick to give you what you are looking for. I think she has already opened a thread that beautifully debunked the myth that our foremothers were meek sheep with no political and financial power and prowess. Check out her profile (I hope it still exists?).

One book that I can recommend is 'Women in Igbo Life and Thought'.

funny thing is that there is very little differences between ancient women of Africa, Rome,Mesopotamia, Athens, Aztec etc. however focusing on Africa there are different cultural society some are matriarch eg Xhosa and ,Khoisan of southern Africa while most societies are patriarch eg Bantu people of western and central Africa...
so in general women are seen as a disposable household general. Lol

A female or male child is a child in Yoruba land. No difference! We had women who were leaders and wealthy in their own right! We also had families who were content with only one girl child and she was accorded as much respect as any male child when it comes to inheritance of her father. I know because one of my great grand mother's was an only child of a very rich trader! She also came from a nuclear family! There was no significant obsession with male children as even kingship was rotated amongst families and not the preserve of only one family line. Female children of a king, can have their own future sons also become king! I love my tribe very much for this!!! We are so unique and advanced in our thinking of gender and equality! Lots of tolerance too. Thank God!

oloyede252:
funny thing is that there is very little differences between ancient women of Africa, Rome,Mesopotamia, Athens, Aztec etc. however focusing on Africa there are different cultural society some are matriarch eg Xhosa and ,Khoisan of southern Africa while most societies are patriarch eg Bantu people of western and central Africa...
so in general women are seen as a disposable household general. Lol

Your mama too?

*In my side of igboland, that must have male child thing was and is still despicably common.

*The man was/should be the provider. However recent times have changed this as we all know.

*Divorce was frowned upon but was not uncommon. Women used to divorce their husbands and husbands could divorce their wives based on factors ranging from maltreatment to infidelity.

*divorced women used to remarry all the time. Factor in polygamy and you'd see this wasn't far fetched. However the new husband claimed ownership of the children the woman has since he's the person who has paid the new bride price. It sometimes led to conflict especially where male children are concerned because they would recognize the brideprice paying man over the biological father. Still despicably happens until today.

Submission was not required. (It is a foreign concept that came with Christianity) If a man treats his wife bad, she could go back to her father's house and upon investigation, he may be sanctioned by the umuada and the wife appealed with to go back to him (remember they didn't like divorce). But that still happened anyway.
However respect was required.

Wives were encouraged to be industrious. With a polygamous setting, that's common sense anyway isn't it?

Yes a woman could marry another woman for procreation purposes. Any young lad can do the job of getting her pregnant but the child/ren belongs to the woman who paid the bride price (wonder why bride price is so important to them)

This is one thread where misogynists will have a field day spinning the lies that dance around in their fantasies

OP I'll still encourage you to read up some more on this topic from reliable history books. You can't really take people's words for it because most people have a 'Utopic' concept of how the olden days used to be. Usually based on their personal fantasies

Mindfulness:


Stillfire or Stillwater is the best pick to give you what you are looking for. I think she has already opened a thread that beautifully debunked the myth that our foremothers were meek sheep with no political and financial power and prowess. Check out her profile (I hope it still exists?).

One book that I can recommend is 'Women in Igbo Life and Thought'.

I'll post more as I remember

Mindfulness:


Your mama too?

she is still alive so I don't get your point.

"so in general women are seen as a disposable household
general." that the best description of ancient women, if you disagree state your point

cococandy:
This is one thread where misogynists will have a field day spinning the lies that dance around in their fantasies

OP I'll still encourage you to read up some more on this topic from reliable history books. You can't really take people's words for it because most people have a 'Utopic' concept of how the olden days used to be. Usually based on their personal fantasies

Never mind. Let them fly in, I will make them fly out posing in their panties.

oloyede252:



she is still alive so I don't get your point.

"so in general women are seen as a disposable household
general." that the best description of ancient women, if you disagree state your point

I already have.

Olanna45:


1) Yes. The girl child is regarded as not being so important. Like she grows up, gets married its the male child who continues the lineage.

2) yes... They are not allowed, though there might some exceptions in this.

3) They are allowed to own cash crops, but they are not allowed to own yam barns...
Most atimes, the cash crops are given to them by their husbands so they feed their children with its proceeds.

4) yes. 2nd class citizen in the sense that the male child comes first.. His needs are considered to be more important.
As for submission, it is a must. Even if your husband is useless(sorry for the choice of word)

Coming to inheritance, an igbo woman has no inheritance in her father's house. There is a proverb which says "Onye iberibe amaghi na adanne ya bu obia"
A fool do not know that his elder sister is a visitor in their father's house"

Polygamy; A typical igbo man sees polygamy as an achievement. More wives, more sons, more yam barns.

Divorce: it is not allowed. A widow is more accepted in the pre colonial igbo society than a female divorceee... She will be tagged as a bad wife. No one cares to know the reason for the divorce.

Recreation;

The most common form recreation for the pre colonial woman is dancing. Dance groups are formed according to age grades.

Pre marital sex is a no no. If the husband finds out she has being deflowered before marriage, the man has the right to return her to her father's house and collect the bride price back. Such a lady will be stigmatized, the shame will be extended to the father and siblings. The father will portion the whole blame on the wife.


The issue of a woman' marrying' a wife for herself is very common in the pre colonial days and it is still been practiced by some communities today.

A barren woman might decide to marry a young lady, in most cases the ladies being married are those with unwanted pregnancies, divorcees, childless widows.. This lady is allowed to sleep with any man, once she concieves and put to bed, the child bears the name of the woman who married the mother... The father is just a sperm donor. He has no right over the child.

This mostly done by barren women, wonen who had only female children..

I really can't say that some of these practices has been done away with. Families these make the decision on how they wish to treat their girl child. But in a typical igbo community, nothing has changed.

Thanks a lot

I really appreciate your contributions,

So did Igbo women have inheritance in the husband's house? Some ancient women had inheritance in their husband's home though it was not transferrable.

Divorce : That Means divorce was frowned against seriously as if there are no female divorces, then there will be no male divorcees except the men just married more wives when they were tired of the current one.

So there was a lot of twerking then.

Are the women how marry these 'wives' married? Why do they bear the women's surnames?

So the culture is still same....

I think the ancient/pre colonial women of both Igbo/Yoruba had the same experience.

The little difference I see is that I've never heard of a Yoruba woman marrying a wife for herself and some women were bold and daring enough to challenge the status quo...they made history.

Mindfulness:


Stillfire or Stillwater is the best pick to give you what you are looking for. I think she has already opened a thread that beautifully debunked the myth that our foremothers were meek sheep with no political and financial power and prowess. Check out her profile (I hope it still exists?).

One book that I can recommend is 'Women in Igbo Life and Thought'.

That's why I quoted her.

How do I get the book? Online? Hard copy? Free?

Happy new year

Mindfulness:


Never mind. Let them fly in, I will make them fly out posing in their panties.

"Posing in their panties"

oloyede252:
funny thing is that there is very little differences between ancient women of Africa, Rome,Mesopotamia, Athens, Aztec etc. however focusing on Africa there are different cultural society some are matriarch eg Xhosa and ,Khoisan of southern Africa while most societies are patriarch eg Bantu people of western and central Africa...
so in general women are seen as a disposable household general. Lol

There were a lot of differences across tribes.

In Sparta for instance, the women did physical sport to have strong babies & they were in control of the home cos their men were more preoccupied with defending the state. In general, they had better lives than a Athenian or Greek wife for instance.

bukatyne:


That's why I quoted her.

How do I get the book? Online? Hard copy? Free?

Happy new year

Happy New Year dear! May you and your family be happy and healthy.

Google it.

oloyede252:
funny thing is that there is very little differences between ancient women of Africa, Rome,Mesopotamia, Athens, Aztec etc. however focusing on Africa there are different cultural society some are matriarch eg Xhosa and ,Khoisan of southern Africa while most societies are patriarch eg Bantu people of western and central Africa...
so in general women are seen as a disposable household general. Lol

Sensible!

baby124:
A female or male child is a child in Yoruba land. No difference! We had women who were leaders and wealthy in their own right! We also had families who were content with only one girl child and she was accorded as much respect as any male child when it comes to inheritance of her father. I know because one of my great grand mother's was an only child of a very rich trader! She also came from a nuclear family! There was no significant obsession with male children as even kingship was rotated amongst families and not the preserve of only one family line. Female children of a king, can have their own future sons also become king! I love my tribe very much for this!!! We are so unique and advanced in our thinking of gender and equality! Lots of tolerance too. Thank God!

Happy new year

Lols at 'I love my tribe'

This your post only deals with value of children. Other parts nko?

Please see my posts to Olanna

Olanna45:
The little i know about the pre colonial igbo women....
They are seen as second class citizens in the family....They are groomed to help their husbands in farm work as well as to submissive to them. They dare not question his authority....The pre colonial igbo woman is respected by the number of sons she has for her husband...
They are not allowed to take part in decision making process of any kind in the community.

They are limited to planting of crops like cocoyam, maize, cassava etc. They are not allowed to plant crops like yam which is regarded as king of the crops...
They are not allowed to tap palm wine nor climb palm trees.



Source :Folk tales
novels like Things fall apart
Efuru.

Igbo women do take part in decision making. Even in resolving crisis. Have you not heard of Umuokpu or Umuada?

Before more tale spinners come, let me add that the idea of a woman who's not married being considered as unfortunate is not a traditional Igbo culture. It came from the west. They gave it a name (spinsterhood) and stigmatized it.
We adopted it and made it our own culture. Now anyone who doesn't agree with it is concerned too western

Off topic: the idea of persecuting 'witches and wizards' also came form the west. We are traditionally idol worshippers which is now considered as witchcraft.

Just adding. Y'all can continue

cococandy:
*In my side of igboland, that must have male child thing was and is still despicably common.

*The man was/should be the provider. However recent times have changed this as we all know.

*Divorce was frowned upon but was not uncommon. Women used to divorce their husbands and husbands could divorce their wives based on factors ranging from maltreatment to infidelity.

*divorced women used to remarry all the time. Factor in polygamy and you'd see this wasn't far fetched. However the new husband claimed ownership of the children the woman has since he's the person who has paid the new bride price. It sometimes led to conflict especially where male children are concerned because they would recognize the brideprice paying man over the biological father. Still despicably happens until today.

Submission was not required. (It is a foreign concept that came with Christianity) If a man treats his wife bad, she could go back to her father's house and upon investigation, he may be sanctioned by the umuada and the wife appealed with to go back to him (remember they didn't like divorce). But that still happened anyway.
However respect was required.

Wives were encouraged to be industrious. With a polygamous setting, that's common sense anyway isn't it?

Yes a woman could marry another woman for procreation purposes. Any young lad can do the job of getting her pregnant but the child/ren belongs to the woman who paid the bride price (wonder why bride price is so important to them)

Happy new year and how are you & fam?

On divorce part: if a husband divorced his wife who had 4 kids and the wife remarried, the first husband was no longer the father of the existing children culturally? Were divorced women discriminated against or re-absorbed as 2nd to nth wives?

So the wives made money however spent as they deemed fit as the husbands were primary providers?

Olanna45, was the Umuada not operative in your culture?

This thread is really gonna be great.

** I have always had this stereotype of ancient Igbo wives staying at home and Igbo husbands been monogamous.

cococandy:
This is one thread where misogynists will have a field day spinning the lies that dance around in their fantasies

OP I'll still encourage you to read up some more on this topic from reliable history books. You can't really take people's words for it because most people have a 'Utopic' concept of how the olden days used to be. Usually based on their personal fantasies

Do we have history books written through our own eyes? Not by the whites?