Riofidelio:
No sir, the question asked in this thread is "Who are Jehovah's witnesses?" It's during the course of discuss that they keep mentioning GB because they can't seem to know anything to disapprove our works but to say it's not from God rather it's from the governing body. So that's why i need to make it clear to them that if they don't have a governing body and the don't see any need, they should prove it by going out to do better in the work of the Lord than we who have a governing body! Then it will be understandable that all what we've been doing can be done without a governing body!

Do you believe the Lords work has been done previously without a governing body? Do you believe the great commission is being done without a governing body? Do you believe the great commission can be done without a governing body? Matthew 3:9 comes to mind!!!

Riofidelio:
It's OK if you cannot assume or you don't want to assume then go out there and do the work of the Lord zealously with efficacy just as He commissioned it so that observers could know that there are those who are doing BETTER in the work of the Lord than those assigning glory to men (JWs)

The word "efficacy" is what I want you to breakdown. Is there really a standard that measures how the great commission should be done? Did the apostles set efficacy for those they convert on how to preach? Did Jesus set efficacy to those he healed and assign the preaching work?

achorladey:

Bro, I cannot assume anything here. The message is from God's word the Bible. If you underestimate the power of God's word to act on people as Phillipians 2:13 rightly stated then you are free to assign such glory to the GB. But don't forget whatever we do should be done as to God not to men. Same things apply to all other Christian denomination.

There's nothing like "Christian Denomination" it's either you know what Christianity REALLY means or you just practice whatever anyone you see holding Bibles on Sundays does! God has HIS own organisation, you either study the Bible to know the group that fits in to that arrangement or you choose anyone that appeals to you "personally" That's why Jesus said there are two roads as in TWO ROADS one is leading to life and the other to destruction. There are just TWO religions throughout the world, pure worship which belongs to the one and only true God and false worship which belongs to Satan and his demons. The one belonging to God has strict rules that must be adhere to while Satan gives each demon a possession of his own but Satan is the overall ruler of the false religions. "The only sign to know them is that they agrees to do sacred services together even though what their gods(demons) taught them contradicts one another"! It's when they come in contact with pure worship (God's own) that they'll team up as if they're all in agreement, of course they're all one under Satan's manipulations!

Riofidelio:
You're still not getting it Ma! First of all Paul was well learned in the law so Jesus made use of him much more than any other Christian that's his contemporaries but still the 12 in Jerusalem is the Governing Body that's directing all the activities of Christians both home and abroad! Paul challenge Peter a fellow Christian not the complete Governing Body comprising the 12 Apostles! Of course we're all prone to errors but NOBODY dares challenge the Governing Body in Jerusalem as a whole! So a member of our governing body can err and it's the duty of a fellow Jehovah's Witness to correct him because "he's not perfect" but challenging the BODY as a whole is what's wrong my friend!

i do not know the bible u read ooo but Paul does not take permission from any governing body before he established doctrines, go and read his letters to the Corinthian church how he makes statement like dey are his own commandment and not of God. Those 12 weren't commission as apostles to the gentiles. Who are you today? A jew or a gentile?if ur a gentile, den paul is ur apostle and not the 12 at Jerusalem.

Riofidelio:
Hmmmmmmmmm Well the same Jesus chose 12 Apostles out of numerous disciples to act as a GB Ma! Because Jesus came from heaven so He's well aware that for orderliness to be complete there must be a Governing Body! Even in heaven out of 144,000 there was chosen 24 elders,sorry Ma there MUST be a GB that's why your folks aren't organized to do anything effectively even though you're trying all your effort to preach!

wow. So you mean the 24 elders are chosen from 144000 so there can be orderliness. Do u mean there could be disorderliness in heaven

Riofidelio:
I've answered that before so go and read my previous comments!

do you consider the compilation of the bible in 400AD to av been a miracle?

achorladey:

The word "efficacy" is what I want you to breakdown. Is there really a standard that measures how the great commission should be done? Did the apostles set efficacy for those they convert on how to preach? Did Jesus set efficacy to those he healed and assign the preaching work?

The Bible didn't leave US in the dark regarding that Sir! First there must be effectiveness if the Spirit of Christianity (The Messiah's teachings)is working amidst the people, they must form a global family and they must turn weapons into farming tools meaning they'll not learn wars anymore! Isaiah 2:1-4,Micah 4:2-4 Secondly them must be seen preaching and teaching their neighbors how to live peacefully and it will serve as a sign of pure worship during the end time! Malachi 3:16-18 All these are the things Jesus included when commissioning Christianity. So if it's not Christianity it can't be as effective as on those practicing Christianity! Two signs Jesus gave to distinguish between true and false Christians, true Christians will have love amongst themselves. John 13:35 and every other religious groups and peoples will hate them. Matthew 10:22 John 17:14

Salvation102:
do you consider the compilation of the bible in 400AD to av been a miracle?

I've had enough Ma, please go attend to and cook for you husband! Good night.

Salvation102:
the word Christian actually came from physical men, let ur light shine before men that dey may see ur good works and glorify ur father in heaven. If u r a Christian, the world would know .. Those around you will testify that you aren't just pretending, you are actually wat u claim to be

this does not answer the scriptural question, why should a physical man examine and verify a spiritual man?

Salvation102:
like d Pharisees and saducees of dis world, ur members obey society rules but they lack the power and because of their ego and pride, instead of admitting dey were wrong, dey rather say Jesus is performing miracle with the spirit of belzebub

pls who is the society and which rules are being made to be obeyed?
so why are you behaving like the Sadducee if you know it is wrong? why do you obey your pastor commands to pay ten percent and not wear earrings or always come to camp while he is using your money to wed his children in Dubai or to put his pastors in government?! why are you permitting homosexuals as pastors in your church? Are you not worse that the pharisees who were making their own rules? and why do you think Jesus will accept miracle workers of inequity when he has told you he will tell them to get away from him....

Riofidelio:
I've had enough Ma, please go attend to and cook for you husband! Good night.

Riofidelio:
I've had enough Ma, please go attend to and cook for you husband! Good night.

hahahaha. I almost fell down laughing wen i read dis comment.
Well, it looks like d question actually exposes the loophole in ur stand about miracles

enimooko:
this does not answer the scriptural question, why should a physical man examine and verify a spiritual man?

when ur version of history cannot be backed up by any spiritual or physical authority before it, den it raises alot of questions in d heart of those who av not traded the use of their thinking faculty

enimooko:

pls who is the society and which rules are being made to be obeyed?
so why are you behaving like the Sadducee if you know it is wrong? why do you obey your pastor commands to pay ten percent and not wear earrings or always come to camp while he is using your money to wed his children in Dubai or to put his pastors in government?! why are you permitting homosexuals as pastors in your church? Are you not worse that the pharisees who were making their own rules? and why do you think Jesus will accept miracle workers of inequity when he has told you he will tell them to get away from him....

neither will God accept pedophiles and women abusers. You think we are unaware of how rampant it is among ur folks? News of it is all over the place, same papers dat report d thing u accused some Christian denominations of reported urs too. Oh, i av forgotten .. Ur own is persecution but dat of others is d truth .. Severe Persecution complex syndrome

Salvation102:
hahahaha. I almost fell down laughing wen i read dis comment.
Well, it looks like d question actually exposes the loophole in ur stand about miracles

Well i've discovered that you're only trying hard to disapprove pure worship that's what rendered your senses obstinate but please i'm begging you do not render your conscience dead because that's what will make you close your minds to the TRUTH leading to the UNFORGIVABLE sin! Matthew 12:31,32 If there couldn't be disorderliness in heaven please what could have led to WAR in HEAVEN? and why was it written "rejoice you heavens" after Satan has been sent away with his demons? Revelations 12:7,12

Salvation102:
hahahaha. I almost fell down laughing wen i read dis comment.
Well, it looks like d question actually exposes the loophole in ur stand about miracles

Well MIRACLES do happen for specific reasons (1)To prove that God is backing something (2) To impress in the minds of observers that God's promises are certain (3) To rescue God's servants in times of distress.There is Magic as well and it's purpose is to DISTRACT ONLOOKERS from what they're supposed to do during the time they're watching Magic! Please what is the purpose of your so called miracles today? Is it to prove that God is behind all these contradictions as all of them are performing miracles? What impression are they leaving behind? Regarding the compilation of the Bible you can borrow Jesus' comment when He said "my father has been working till now" (John 5:17)please note that people won't notice those "works" since they're not "spectacular" like miracles which do affect their lives in an instance. So Jehovah is behind the compilation of HIS words because it's in line with HIS will that all people come to an ACCURATE knowledge of HIM and HIS Son and this could only be possible if they have access to HIS words. Where are the magicians practicing their magical acts today? Have they all suddenly repented from dealing with demons? Are they no more going to entertain their audience? Well read the Bible book of 2Corinthians 11:12-15 to answer those questions! God bless you.

Riofidelio:
There's nothing like "Christian Denomination" it's either you know what Christianity REALLY means or you just practice whatever anyone you see holding Bibles on Sundays does! God has HIS own organisation, you either study the Bible to know the group that fits in to that arrangement or you choose anyone that appeals to you "personally" That's why Jesus said there are two roads as in TWO ROADS one is leading to life and the other to destruction. There are just TWO religions throughout the world, pure worship which belongs to the one and only true God and false worship which belongs to Satan and his demons. The one belonging to God has strict rules that must be adhere to while Satan gives each demon a possession of his own but Satan is the overall ruler of the false religions. "The only sign to know them is that they agrees to do sacred services together even though what their gods(demons) taught them contradicts one another"! It's when they come in contact with pure worship (God's own) that they'll team up as if they're all in agreement, of course they're all one under Satan's manipulations!

Explain if you can what Christianity means? Please find another suitable words to replace "Christian denomination". The word "organisation" was it explicitly stated in the Bible. What is the record of what seems to be God's earthly organisation in times past ruled and administered by imperfect men of old(Moses, Elijah David, Solomon e.t.c.)? Is that organisation still in existence? The true religion that I know of do not have strict rules but principles of life as highlighted in loving God with all what you've got and love of neighbour. Those are not strict/rigid rules. What constitute sacred service? Is it restricted to only preaching and teaching about God's kingdom? What is the true religion from letters of James 1:27. Is it attached to being in one "organisation".

Riofidelio:
The Bible didn't leave US in the dark regarding that Sir! First there must be effectiveness if the Spirit of Christianity (The Messiah's teachings)is working amidst the people, they must form a global family and they must turn weapons into farming tools meaning they'll not learn wars anymore! Isaiah 2:1-4,Micah 4:2-4 Secondly them must be seen preaching and teaching their neighbors how to live peacefully and it will serve as a sign of pure worship during the end time! Malachi 3:16-18 All these are the things Jesus included when commissioning Christianity. So if it's not Christianity it can't be as effective as on those practicing Christianity! Two signs Jesus gave to distinguish between true and false Christians, true Christians will have love amongst themselves. John 13:35 and every other religious groups and peoples will hate them. Matthew 10:22 John 17:14

Who among those you feel call themselves Christian living in your community practice war explicitly? What is the difference between a Christian that kill people with words of mouth and those that kill with a gun?

Salvation102:
i do not know the bible u read ooo but Paul does not take permission from any governing body before he established doctrines, go and read his letters to the Corinthian church how he makes statement like dey are his own commandment and not of God. Those 12 weren't commission as apostles to the gentiles. Who are you today? A jew or a gentile?if ur a gentile, den paul is ur apostle and not the 12 at Jerusalem.

NO Ma you got it wrong there again! The 12 Apostles stands for all the Born Agains who are to rule with Jesus in heaven that's why they're the foundation! Revelations 21:14 The Holy Spirit is directing the 12 to give orders(Act 15:28,29) while Paul takes those orders to the gentiles and analyse it because he's well educated both in Jewish customs and those of the gentiles. Romans 11:13,Galatians 1:14 Act 17:22-24 So he's just a "traveling overseer" but every Christian is subjected to the 12 in Jerusalem!(headquarter) We have them today as well, they're called traveling or circuit overseers but for orderliness to be maintained they must teach what's coming from the headquarters so even if they die and another traveling overseer is appointed the organization will remain in order. Thank you!

Riofidelio:
NO Ma you got it wrong there again! The 12 Apostles stands for all the Born Agains who are to rule with Jesus in heaven that's why they're the foundation! Revelations 21:14 The Holy Spirit is directing the 12 to give orders(Act 15:28,29) while Paul takes those orders to the gentiles and analyse it because he's well educated both in Jewish customs and those of the gentiles. Romans 11:13,Galatians 1:14 Act 17:22-24 So he's just a "traveling overseer" but every Christian is subjected to the 12 in Jerusalem!(headquarter) We have them today as well, they're called traveling or circuit overseers but for orderliness to be maintained they must teach what's coming from the headquarters so even if they die and another traveling overseer is appointed the organization will remain in order. Thank you!

E

achorladey:

Explain if you can what Christianity means? Please find another suitable words to replace "Christian denomination". The word "organisation" was it explicitly stated in the Bible. What is the record of what seems to be God's earthly organisation in times past ruled and administered by imperfect men of old(Moses, Elijah David, Solomon e.t.c.)? Is that organisation still in existence? The true religion that I know of do not have strict rules but principles of life as highlighted in loving God with all what you've got and love of neighbour. Those are not strict/rigid rules. What constitute sacred service? Is it restricted to only preaching and teaching about God's kingdom? What is the true religion from letters of James 1:27. Is it attached to being in one "organisation".

"Denomination" has no place in Christianity,we must all believe and practice the same thing if we're truly worshipping the same Spirit Being! 1Corinthians 1:10 It's Satan that gives demons under him the chance to establish different line of thought yet deceiving those worshipping them that they're worshipping the same God! These demons each has likes and dislikes resulting in the contradicting doctrines and conflicting teachings you're seeing today! They have visible agents who stands as founders or overseers of what you're calling "denominations" today! That's why these different religious groups claiming Christians are divided in teachings and doctrines but still friendly since none is STRICTLY saying "this is how things ought to be" Satan is their God and demons are the ones setting different standards! If you have ears you may choose to listen or ignore!

achorladey:

Who among those you feel call themselves Christian living in your community practice war explicitly? What is the difference between a Christian that kill people with words of mouth and those that kill with a gun?

The question is "Are you permitted by your Faith to carry weapons for any reason whatsoever?" if your answer is "yes" then know today that your religion has nothing to do with the young man from Nazareth! Matthew 26:52 There are many more instructions that Jesus ask US to pass unto you but that's the first that everyone interested in pure worship must first learn to do! Isaiah 2:4 Though it's not easy but with faith in God all things are possible, that's why people from different countries around the world including Nations and Tribes that are well known for developing and using weapons have been able to say "we're no more going to carry weapons again because of our Love for Jesus Christ" You can disapprove what they're doing now but whom God has blessed no man can curse!

Riofidelio:
Well i've discovered that you're only trying hard to disapprove pure worship that's what rendered your senses obstinate but please i'm begging you do not render your conscience dead because that's what will make you close your minds to the TRUTH leading to the UNFORGIVABLE sin! Matthew 12:31,32 If there couldn't be disorderliness in heaven please what could have led to WAR in HEAVEN? and why was it written "rejoice you heavens" after Satan has been sent away with his demons? Revelations 12:7,12

i can honestly say you've done your best to help these people know the truth from God's word. Remember Jesus' word at matt.7:6..its obvious they just wanna take you for a ride. i'm sure you know the reasons why Jesus didn't always reply those questioning him.

Riofidelio:
Well i've discovered that you're only trying hard to disapprove pure worship that's what rendered your senses obstinate but please i'm begging you do not render your conscience dead because that's what will make you close your minds to the TRUTH leading to the UNFORGIVABLE sin! Matthew 12:31,32 If there couldn't be disorderliness in heaven please what could have led to WAR in HEAVEN? and why was it written "rejoice you heavens" after Satan has been sent away with his demons? Revelations 12:7,12

there is nothing pure about the worship of man judged by man's ever changing standards

Riofidelio:
Well MIRACLES do happen for specific reasons (1)To prove that God is backing something (2) To impress in the minds of observers that God's promises are certain (3) To rescue God's servants in times of distress.There is Magic as well and it's purpose is to DISTRACT ONLOOKERS from what they're supposed to do during the time they're watching Magic! Please what is the purpose of your so called miracles today? Is it to prove that God is behind all these contradictions as all of them are performing miracles? What impression are they leaving behind? Regarding the compilation of the Bible you can borrow Jesus' comment when He said "my father has been working till now" (John 5:17)please note that people won't notice those "works" since they're not "spectacular" like miracles which do affect their lives in an instance. So Jehovah is behind the compilation of HIS words because it's in line with HIS will that all people come to an ACCURATE knowledge of HIM and HIS Son and this could only be possible if they have access to HIS words. Where are the magicians practicing their magical acts today? Have they all suddenly repented from dealing with demons? Are they no more going to entertain their audience? Well read the Bible book of 2Corinthians 11:12-15 to answer those questions! God bless you.

if miracle ended with the death of the last apostle, how come miracle still happened in the compilation of the bible hundred years after the death of the last apostle?

haywizzy007:
i can honestly say you've done your best to help these people know the truth from God's word. Remember Jesus' word at matt.7:6..its obvious they just wanna take you for a ride. i'm sure you know the reasons why Jesus didn't always reply those questioning him.

Agape My brother! I'm not answering them only for their salvation but for the sake of those who might be following this thread so that honesthearted ones can see the foolishness of Satan, his demons and their human agents misrepresenting true Christians! Of course they're not His sheep but for the sake of others seeing them i'm answering for easy identification and to distinguish between Jesus' sheep and Satan's goats trying to mix with the Lord's sheep!

Riofidelio:
E "Denomination" has no place in Christianity,we must all believe and practice the same thing if we're truly worshipping the same Spirit Being! 1Corinthians 1:10 It's Satan that gives demons under him the chance to establish different line of thought yet deceiving those worshipping them that they're worshipping the same God! These demons each has likes and dislikes resulting in the contradicting doctrines and conflicting teachings you're seeing today! They have visible agents who stands as founders or overseers of what you're calling "denominations" today! That's why these different religious groups claiming Christians are divided in teachings and doctrines but still friendly since none is STRICTLY saying "this is how things ought to be" Satan is their God and demons are the ones setting different standards! If you have ears you may choose to listen or ignore!

Denomination" has no place in Christianity(AGREE) ,we(Jws included) must all believe and practice the same thing if we're truly worshipping the same Spirit Being! 1Corinthians 1:10 Ephesians 4:4-6.It's Satan that gives demons under him the chance to establish different line of thought yet deceiving those worshipping them that they're worshipping the same God! These demons each has likes and dislikes resulting in the contradicting doctrines and conflicting teachings you're seeing today!(AGREE) They have visible agents(GB included) who stands as founders or overseers of what you're calling "denominations(Jws included)" today!(AGREE) That's why these different religious groups (including Jws) claiming Christians are divided in teachings and doctrines but still friendly since none is STRICTLY saying "this is how things ought to be" Satan is their God and demons are the ones setting different standards! (AGREED) If you have ears you may choose to listen or ignore! (TO WHOM IT REALLY CONCERN).

Riofidelio:
The question is "Are you permitted by your Faith to carry weapons for any reason whatsoever?" if your answer is "yes" then know today that your religion has nothing to do with the young man from Nazareth! Matthew 26:52 There are many more instructions that Jesus ask US to pass unto you but that's the first that everyone interested in pure worship must first learn to do! Isaiah 2:4 Though it's not easy but with faith in God all things are possible, that's why people from different countries around the world including Nations and Tribes that are well known for developing and using weapons have been able to say "we're no more going to carry weapons again because of our Love for Jesus Christ" You can disapprove what they're doing now but whom God has blessed no man can curse!

The question is "Are you permitted to use your lips as Christians to condemn and kill for any reason whatsoever your fellow Christian?" if your answer is "yes" then know today that your religion has nothing to do with the young man from Nazareth!Matthew 22:37-40 John 14:6,7, John 3:16 and not Matthew 26:52.There are many more instructions that Jesus ask US to pass unto you but that's the first that everyone interested in pure worship must first learn to do. Though it's not easy but with faith in God all things are possible(including not using legalism approach to guide Christians), that's why people from different countries around the world including Nations and Tribes that are well known for developing and using weapons have been able to say "we're no more going to carry weapons again because of our Love for Jesus Christ" You can disapprove what they're doing now but whom God has blessed no man can curse! We never had the right to curse whom God has blessed.

achorladey:

Denomination" has no place in Christianity(AGREE) ,we(Jws included) must all believe and practice the same thing if we're truly worshipping the same Spirit Being! 1Corinthians 1:10 Ephesians 4:4-6.It's Satan that gives demons under him the chance to establish different line of thought yet deceiving those worshipping them that they're worshipping the same God! These demons each has likes and dislikes resulting in the contradicting doctrines and conflicting teachings you're seeing today!(AGREE) They have visible agents(GB included) who stands as founders or overseers of what you're calling "denominations(Jws included)" today!(AGREE) That's why these different religious groups (including Jws) claiming Christians are divided in teachings and doctrines but still friendly since none is STRICTLY saying "this is how things ought to be" Satan is their God and demons are the ones setting different standards! (AGREED) If you have ears you may choose to listen or ignore! (TO WHOM IT REALLY CONCERN).

AGREED! So let's stop dividing the Church of Christ with that evil word "denomination" Since the Christ is ONE.1Corinthians 1:12,13 Which of all these different religions (including JWs) claiming Christians is the ONE and ONLY group for Christ? I'll suggest Jesus' approach "going to meet people at home one on one for presentation and cross examination" Matthew 10:3-26,28:19,20 compared to Malachi 3:16-18 and Isaiah 54:17 But if you know a better way to solve this problem please let's hear it!

Salvation102:
.. Severe Persecution complex syndrome

God will never accept pedophiles and women abusers. Pentecostal churches who are hiding on the internet to spread false stories because of their inability to silence JWs will never succeed. Not been succeeding since the first century.

You think we are unaware of how much effort your churches are using the media, infiltrators, paranoia, and conspiracy theorists to attack the weak ones among the JWs on all fronts. News of your sexual misconduct are all over the place: Pastor Oji - RCCG, Abuja, Pastor Rogers Abraham - RCCG Spain, Pastor Tim Omotoso - Jesus Dominion International Church, South Africa, Biodun Fatoyinbo (30 girls) - Common Wealth Of Zion Assembly (COZA), You can ask me for more names all coming from your pastors

Same papers dat u say report d accusations some Christian denominations neva tell u that the overwhelming evidence points to the fact that if pedophiles are found among the jehovist they are isolated anf whenrequired neva protect them from prosecution.
av u forgotten Jesus experience at Golgotha is persecution but dat of the others like you is deserved retribution: Severe Pentecostal complex syndrome

Salvation102:
when ur version of history cannot be backed up by any spiritual or physical authority before it, den it raises alot of questions in d heart of those who av not traded the use of their thinking faculty

this does not answer the scriptural question, why should a physical man examine and verify a spiritual man?

Salvation102:
the word Christian actually came from physical men, let ur light shine before men that dey may see ur good works and glorify ur father in heaven. If u r a Christian, the world would know .. Those around you will testify that you aren't just pretending, you are actually wat u claim to be

If u r a TRUE Christian, the world would know and persecute you

Christianity and the world have different masters. Remember you and your people are of the world and the world loves you and accept you. Do not be carried away by the honors given to you by the world. True Christians however are Christ followers and that is what no physical man can claim. Calling Christ followers Christians does not confer spirituality on the callers! - Ode

Which leads me to the question that you are dodging
Why should a physical man be evaluating or examining a spiritual man?

Salvation102:
there is nothing pure about the worship of man judged by man's ever changing standards

How about the worship of Jah with a humility to follow his direction and a determination to follow his own program: compare worship of God changing from Tent to Tabernacle, from Tabernacle to Temple in Jerusalem or mediator from Moses to the prophets and from the prophets to Jesus or salvation from circumcision to non-circumcision or the end-of-the-world from 70CE to much later.

Just like Korah what you can only see is worship of man.