Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,161,449 members, 7,846,878 topics. Date: Saturday, 01 June 2024 at 05:25 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Faith Is Delusional (10579 Views)
Why Faith Is An Unreliable Way Of Determining Truth / See Why Faith Healers Can't Be Employed By Hospitals / Faith Is A Race, Run Your Own (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by LordReed(m): 9:36am On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Wrong. The only implication atheism concerns itself with is the existence or otherwise of a god or gods. I have not made any pronouncements on the origin of the universe when I do come ask me for evidence. Meanwhile you have and you need to provide the evidence of what you claim. 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 9:40am On Sep 07, 2019 |
Niflheim:Since you've read his books and understood its content, you must certainly have agreed totally with him. Please for the sake of us the ignorant ones, can you please provide an empirical evidence for this quantum foam and virtual particles that pop in and out of existence!!!! .......I am sure I'm going to wait forever! |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 9:47am On Sep 07, 2019 |
LordReed:No Sir! The definition of Atheism is different from the implication of Atheism. Atheism is the disbelief in the existence of a creator or gods. The implication of this disbelief (Atheism) is that the universe created itself from NOTHING. And from my perspective, this is without an iota of verifiable evidence! 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by malvisguy212: 9:55am On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:they are reinforcing the definition of atheism to suit this argument . thank you as you exposed them. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 10:21am On Sep 07, 2019 |
LordReed:Sorry, I didn't know how I missed this. Passed Judgement and concluding there is no God when your data and information is incomplete Of course I know there is a God. I have never ever told anyone who asked how I know God exists that they have no right to ask. God/gods can only be known at an "experiencial" level. It is a subjective experience you have when you intellectually and emotionally you commit yourself to the cause of finding Him. The implication of Atheism is that the universe created itself from NOTHING. You needn't believe in my God who cannot be Empirically Proved BUT equally, can you give an empirical proof that the universe made itself from nothing? If the idea of your universe creating itself cannot be proved then why should you believe it? Even though you'll disagree: Atheism is a kind of FAITH! 2 Likes |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 10:31am On Sep 07, 2019 |
malvisguy212:They are used to being on the offensive against Christians without looking deeply into their own claims. Usually, they would have gone to atheists websites to find ready answers but I guess this time, the answers seem not available. Unfortunately, the average Atheist read and seek for knowledge far much more than the average Christian and this is bad. A Christian shouldn't read only the bible, he should read a little of everything and like that a balanced Christian. 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by LordReed(m): 10:46am On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka: So no matter how many times I tell you I don't believe something you will insist on saying I believe it? Good at least you've made it clear what your agenda is. This conversation is over. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 11:12am On Sep 07, 2019 |
LordReed:Ok! I never said you believed what you said you don't believe in. For clarity: 1. You believe there is no creator God 2. The implication is that the universe created itself from nothing 3. You have no Empirical Evidence for the universe creating itself from nothing 4. You are no better than Christians who believe God created the Universe while not having any Empirical Evidence 5. In other words, just like the Christians, you are a FAITH man. According to the OP, is your Faith really delusional? Just to leave you with this quote If the idea of your universe creating itself cannot be proved then why should you believe it? Even though you'll disagree: Atheism is a kind of FAITH! Cc: budaatum 2 Likes |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by MrPresident1: 11:23am On Sep 07, 2019 |
Atheism is compound foolishness. Naked foolishness 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 11:25am On Sep 07, 2019 |
hahn:What's your evidence that God doesn't exist? 3 Likes |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by LordReed(m): 11:31am On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Now get it clear I DO NOT BELIEVE IN A CREATOR GOD, IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM I BELIEVE THERE IS NO CREATOR GOD. One is a lack of belief, the other is a belief. I DO NOT HAVE A BELIEF. Can you wrap your mind around this simple concept? |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by malvisguy212: 12:05pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:you have said it all. 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by malvisguy212: 12:15pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:succinctly. perfect. 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 12:16pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
LordReed: Are you saying that you are predominantly an Emotional Atheist? An emotional Atheist need no justification but a rejection of God by choice. He/she doesn't care with or without evidence his mind is made up. Most had been Theists before but didn't see any advantage it conferred while for others, it's because they felt let down by God they used to believe in their time of need. If this is true, then you are FREE from my drillings BUT You shouldn't act like you are predominantly an Intellectual Atheist. An intellectual Atheist has Logical, Scientific, Anthropological, Psychological etc reasons for being an atheist. For you needn't care so much for evidence (either for Atheism or Theism) NOTE: Please don't get me wrong, even Christians are in the three categories of Intellectual Christians, Emotional Christians and Ignorant Christians. Addition: Someone tells me, Your books are on the table Response: I do not believe my books are on the table.(probably because I left them at home) VS I believe my books are not on the table.(probably because I left them at home) Both are believes saying the same thing in two different ways 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by LordReed(m): 12:23pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Why is this so hard for you? Why are you trying so hard to pigeonhole me into your already categorised boxes despite all my clarifications? |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 12:28pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
LordReed:Can you please clarify by itemizing your clarifications apart from the general definition of disbelief/rejection of a Creator God? I DO NOT BELIEVE IN A CREATOR GOD, Meaning: You don't have confidence in the Creator God (a choice) I BELIEVE THERE IS NO CREATOR GOD Meaning: The universe created itself from nothing. Which one are you? 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 12:41pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:This is very untrue, Shade. We do not know anything about the "beginning of the universe", and all just speculate that God said, big bang, there is, and we believe according to our personal biases. The only thing we do know for certain is there is, we then all try to convince the other to accept our own version of how it came about. An intelligently honest person would say "I don't really know how the universe began". 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 12:42pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:This is good. Though I bet he has a good argument against this very old reasoning. 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 12:48pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
budaatum:Every Scientific investigation shows that the universe had a beginning. The difference is that no one really know how it got formed at the beginning Christians say GOD created it! Atheists say the Universe created itself from nothing. Both the Atheists and the Christians have no Empirical Evidence to validate there assertion 2 Likes |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by shadeyinka(m): 12:53pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
budaatum:He doesn't! His only way out is to claim that he is an atheist by CHOICE and not necessarily because he has some verifiable reasons. Then, I will take it as an outright rejection of God: just like in a coup. The subordinate first reject the headship of his superior well before initiating the coup. 1 Like |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 1:07pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:This is as ridiculous as claiming to define types of theists. I'll start for you so you have an idea: intellectual theists, emotional theists, ignorant theists, muslim theists, christian theist, protestant theist, catholic theist, pentecostal theist, baptist theist, anglican theist, Adeboye, TBJ theist, Oyakhilome theist, etc. Yea, I know you want to disagree, but if you do not "generalise too much", you'd see the types are endless. And "Atheist Pastors" is theist speak, and next you'd claim they go to "atheist church" lol. The "instruments of science, philosophy, logics etc" are the use of the senses (science), and the use of the mind (philosophy, of which logic itself is a part). But you mention them as if their use is a negative thing, which I personally would disagree with since Jesus Christ himself was a Lord of the Senses, having spent immense time healing and teaching people to use their senses in numerous healings and parables and specifically saying, "if your senses are dim, the whole body is in darkness". And he is the Lord of Philosophy, as shown in his continued conquests in numerous philosophical battles. The way to go is treating each "human being" as an individual, or as Christ said, as our own individual selves, which is an even higher standard. Just imagine the stone you are about to cast was being cast by yourself at yourself and I bet you'd exchange it for a pebble. Please note, you are the Christian here so I'm expecting the highest standards of talent use. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 1:10pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:I disagree that any scientific investigation has shown anything of the sort! "Human scientific speculation" might have come to such a conclusion, but it is speculation, and nothing of the sort has been shown. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 1:11pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:See. Even you admit there is no evidence for such asserted speculations. 3 Likes |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 1:15pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:This is unfair. Though, by "choice", just as you have chosen to be a theist. He has given numerous reasons however, and your use of "verifiable" is like stabbing yourself unless you can provide him with "verifiable reasons" for your own claims. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 1:19pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka:The atheists are actually saying "the Universe is there", and usually make no claim as to how it got there, but the theist, with their 'creation inclined mind' translate this to 'the universe created itself', which no (or hardly any) atheist believes or infers. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by LordReed(m): 1:26pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
shadeyinka: You don't get to tell me what what I hold means, I am to tell you that and I told you already, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN A CREATOR GOD because such a being has not been demonstrated in any convincing way to exist. If after this you attempt to tell me what it means or what I believe then I know you are just wasting my time. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 1:41pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
LordReed:There, Shade. My Lord is a an atheist because he has seen no evidence to convince him a Creator God exists. This might be because he is blind and can not see what you see, or because you have not demonstrated what you see sufficiently for him to see it too. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by Rilwayne001: 2:32pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
Lord Buda, always doing Bird and Rat. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by EmperorHarry: 2:54pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
budaatum:Buda,I think what shadeyinka has been trying to convey is one of my biggest skeptism about atheism.People hide behind the neutrality of the atheistic definition like a shield but throw spears whenever they get the chance using scientific method&theories to rule out theistic claims.This is one of the reasons theists attack science(this is wrong) because it can be used to enable atheists when they find it favourable.Science aims to explain the material world and anyone who wholly supports the material explanation of the origin of the universe and things within it,should have some kinda faith in the knowledge it has to offer. Now,I presume shadeyinka is trying to take up scientifically inclined atheists on the verifiability of their claims about the origin of the universe which some feel rules out an alternate theistic claim. Note:Neutral atheists would concede they don't yet know how the universe began because there is no empirical and irrefutably in depth researched evidence for it.They wouldn't aim to find evidence that disproves the God theory as regards origin,etc.(which is the majorly discussed topic on this thread) I'm open to corrections 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 3:34pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
EmperorHarry:First, the bold. You are saying, "anyone who's senses work scientifically", or in Christianese, "those who's talents work well and are used". I put it to you that if that us indeed what you are saying then I suggest you go get glasses because the entire point shade is making is either that they are blind and cannot see or can see and refuse to admit that which they see and so are liars. Apart from that, I do not look at the atheist or any neighbour and suggest they "hide", for doing so is hiding my own eyes and failing to see the atheist, whom by their loudness on here and the number of threads calling them out and the fact that they cannot resist throwing "spears whenever they get the chance", can hardly be said to be hiding! Science is the use of the senses to understand the material world and s the entire message of the Word of God, a tool that Jesus himself worked very hard to show us to use. So, I'd say it is as wrong as blinding oneself or crucifying Christ to attack science, and doing so simply shows one knows not what one is doing, or saying in this case. |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by budaatum: 3:35pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
Rilwayne001:"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? |
Re: Why Faith Is Delusional by EmperorHarry: 4:08pm On Sep 07, 2019 |
budaatum:Those who view science as a tool for arguments against theistic claims are the ones I'm referring to.Science is a neutral ground which according to definition has no other motive but to explain the world as we sense it.It is human influence that wields it as evidence for or against theist claims as regards God related theories.The folks that use the materialistic nature of science as some kinda evidence/knowledge against God are the ones I'm referring to.Shadeyinka points are legit if you take a neutral stance on the topic.From my perspective tho.The question is " Is it the right person he's questioning? ". Apart from that, I do not look at the atheist or any neighbour and suggest they "hide", for doing so is hiding my own eyes and failing to see the atheist, whom by their loudness on here and the number of threads calling them out and the fact that they cannot resist throwing "spears whenever they get the chance", can hardly be said to be hiding!It becomes hiding buda,when the lack of belief is used when questions are been asked of them as regards evidence against God." Why should I provide evidence against something I lack belief in" would be a standard reply but why would you feel science has much knowledge,you use it to attack theistic claims,but quickly reverts to neutrality because you have no evidence refuting God.I know you may say "It's theists that have a point to prove" but don't you think atheists,who assume that through science, they can counter theistic claims,also through science provide answers in place of those offered by theists. Note:Atheism=lack of belief due to the lack of evidence.Simple They should become accountable when they do more than lack the belief. Science is the use of the senses to understand the material world and s the entire message of the Word of God, a tool that Jesus himself worked very hard to show us to use. So, I'd say it is as wrong as blinding oneself or crucifying Christ to attack science, and doing so simply shows one knows not what one is doing, or saying in this case.I couldn't agree more. 1 Like |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Reply)
Incredible Harmony: A Church And A Mosque In One Building / Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri / Getting Chills And Goosebumbs When I Pray Or Worship God. Why?
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 98 |