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Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 2:16pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel: Ok |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by aletheia(m): 2:18pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
truthislight:So you agree that Jesus is God. Good. Now consider these: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost What do you understand by this verse? What does "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" mean? 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 ¶So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.(Acts 13) 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? (Acts 5) So let's see. . .the Holy Spirit speaks, refers to Himself as I, sends out people and can be lied to. Can an impersonal influence do all these or have personal attributes as these? Oh and by the way, you agree that it is God and not men who are blasphemed against, wouldn't you? 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (Matthew 12) |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 2:19pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Surely you are not this immature, I asked you to debate and provide explanations on a number of verse quoted , and all I get in silence. How can your brother take me to the cleaners when he does not even know what he is talking about ? Anyway I give up on you , let me wait for some brave ones like aletheia to continue this interesting discussion. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 2:22pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel: Uh huh |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 2:24pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
[quote author=aletheia] Where does it mention Trinity here, and why were the baptisms in the early church performed in the name of Jesus ? Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 2:38 You are so anxious that you see Trinity everywhere 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 ¶So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.(Acts 13) Easy the Holy Spirit is GOD , his very presence, nothing separate from him. Oh and by the way, you agree that it is God and not men who are blasphemed against, wouldn't you? The Holy Spirit is the very presence of God , his holiness in our lives and he dwells in us if we are Christians , no ? It's almost like going into the holy of holies of the ancient time. "Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place," - Hebrews 9:3 "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple." - 1 Corinthians 3:17 |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Enigma(m): 2:27pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
@ aletheia, Ihedinobi etc (& even Frosbel) Just to say that na exasperation dey do me make I just dey looku (I no really fit lafu dis one); as some will know, I have been there before with Frosbel and in rather less polite terms and manner too. Smh in pity and sadness. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 2:30pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel: Good. You see, I just received my mission in this discussion. From now on, I'm the court clown. I'm gonna take every comment that reeks of idiocy and perform corrective surgery on it. Not all comments can be healed though, some like most of truthislight's are terminally ill with cancer in very advanced stages of metastasis, so I won't bother with those. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 2:35pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
Enigma: @ aletheia, Ihedinobi etc (& even Frosbel) I feel your pain, sir That's why I have elected myself to the position of court clown. I've had enough explosions with Frosbel to not want to bother with lectures anymore, especially as another truly anointed to lecture him between yesterday and today is on hand. I prefer the anointing of the truthful court jester today |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by aletheia(m): 3:01pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel:I already answered you using the example of H2O. And I also told you God is not a vector or scalar in Euclidean space that can be reduced to your arithmetic. God is a Spirit. The spirit can not be reduced to physical equations. Keep grasping at straws. I am: 1. A Son 2. A Husband 3. A Father So let's see. . . Me = A Son + A Husband + A Father = One Man. Does Me = A Son + A Husband + A Father = 3 Men. . .? You see your absurdity in trying to use arithmetic to explain God? You are using the wrong frame of reference. Might as well try to pour the ocean into a cup. Futility. You refusal to answer the simple question: So my question to you Frosbel is this: Is Jesus Christ God come in the flesh or not?. . .clearly identifies you for what you are. Another cult wannabe with the spirit of antichrist. The Biblical criterion is clear and unambiguous: 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (John 4) It is good that this conversation took place so that you may be unmasked for what you really are, a deceiver and one who would lead the brethren astray with your polemics. You go on and on about Jesus being a man. Who here has denied that. . .as I pointed out even unbelievers know that. aletheia:The issues being contended on this thread are: #1. The Holy Spirit is God. . .and not an influence, impulse or force. Seeing as this initial premise could not be sustained in the face of overwhelming scripture evidence that shows the Holy Spirit as a distinct Person with attributes pertaining to personhood. . .you shifted tack to raise --- #2. The pre-Incarnate Word of God was but an idea, a plan in the mind (heart) of God &c. That too has been shown to be false. . .for the scriptures are plain that the Word is God and Jesus is the Word made flesh (i.e. God became a man). The Word of God is the name borne in Heaven by the Heavenly Man Jesus. 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. So to summarize: The Almighty has revealed Himself to us as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy GhostMatthew 28) 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5) 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5) Marantha |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Sweetnecta: 3:07pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
i have opened a thread for you guys to inform us the hearing and speaking parts of the holy spirit. Go there please and educate us with short entries. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 3:15pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
Ihedinobi:actually in some cases that is a beautiful anointing, telling forsbel about the trinity is a work, sometimes it is beautiful to step down and let the holyspirit do his work. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:18pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
[quote author=aletheia] But how can you use the analogy of one Molecule of water to explain the trinity , surely that is a desperate attempt I am: But you are using all sorts to explain the trinity , no ? My question is how you can ever call 3 Distinct persons as ONE, even though Jesus called God ONE ! "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29 3=3 and 1=1 You refusal to answer the simple question: I am non-denominational , so your tag will not stick I confess that the messiah came in the Flesh,begotten of Father God through his Spirit, while you confess he came in the spirit and not in the flesh, so judge for yourself who is anti-christ. It is good that this conversation took place so that you may be unmasked for what you really are, a deceiver and one who would lead the brethren astray with your polemics. Pharisee you, you are blinded to the truth and leading others into a ditch but trying to make a simple concept of GOD Being ONE into a mathematical complexity, you will not let others enter into the kingdom . You go on and on about Jesus being a man. Who here has denied that. . .as I pointed out even unbelievers know that. You said he was a spirit as the last Adam, while the first Adam was a MAN. The issues being contended on this thread are: So how many spirits do we now have according to you 3 , right ? plus the Father and Son making it 5 gods you believe in . The Spirit of God is GOD , his presence in the world and filling of the universe, not seperate from him, how on earth can you separate your spirit from your body and call it a different being ? #2. The pre-Incarnate Word of God was but an idea, a plan in the mind (heart) of God &c. So what did Jesus Christ exist as prior to coming to earth If our Lord overshadowed Mary with the Spirit and Christ was Spirit are we not talking of 2 spirits here ? What a blatant absurdity ! 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Who is the beginning and end of God's creation , the Alpha and Omega, the very Word of GOD. So to summarize: This is the KJV cult translation, the correct translation as all other bibles state from the more reliable manuscripts is : "6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son." - 1 John 5:6-9 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5) The SON came to reveal the father and he did that 1000% very well. He is the express IMAGE ( not PERSON ) of GOD. Amen. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:19pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: actually in some cases that is a beautiful anointing, telling forsbel about the trinity is a work, sometimes it is beautiful to step down and let the holyspirit do his work. Catholics and their babylon daughters . You all agree on this strange concept ! |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Sweetnecta: 3:22pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
but holy spirit did not do anything for the disciples. he did not teach them anything more than Jesus taught. he did not correct any mistake that arouse after Jesus left. He did not lead to all truth. He did not glorify Jesus. if you know he did any of these, please point to each thing he did and provide details and how and where we can read or learn about it/them. heck, he did not speak to any disciple, the first thing he was to do after hearing from God. can you believe God hearing from God before the hearing God tells man what he heard from the God Who spoke to the God? Very confusing and how did this messenger errant God praise Jesus? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by brainpulse: 3:31pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
@ Frosbel Have you received the Holyspirit, after salvation and what as being your personal experience? Just feel like knowing |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:33pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
brainpulse: @ Frosbel I had an extra ordinary encounter with God while an undergraduate at university, it was sudden, precise and created a major change in my life. In other words the things I did before I do them no more. I have also spoken in tongues FYI and being baptised by water immersion. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by brainpulse: 3:36pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel: Please break it down for me dear friend what you mean by " I had an extra ordinary encounter with God". What are the changes and How did it happen? I would also like to know. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:37pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
brainpulse: Nothing to do with you , between me and my GOD. I owe you no explanations about my life. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by brainpulse: 3:39pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel: I believe its an experience to share bro, So how do you want to convince me if I were an unbeliver, of an experience you would want me to feel. Its nothing to hide its not a secrete affair bro. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:43pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
brainpulse: Sorry, am I missing something, are we talking about this topic or me |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:45pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
How can we explain the following to a new convert, JEWs who believe in ONE GOD like Jesus did or even athiets .
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Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:47pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Confusion if you ask me . |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by brainpulse: 3:50pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
Are you dissociating yourself from the topic you posted, O my God? I think I am in the wrong session, but wait are you saying all what you put down has nothing to do with your personal conviction and your personal faith? My Lord my savior. So How do you come about, that He is not a person when you know less of him just what you read? Definitely you know nothing about Him and you are spitting out this nonsenceand blasphemy against him, You vest my spirit. Bro, You do not know God at all, quote me, I am quoteable...... Check what you professed and recieved. You must have recieved something else i am sure of that. I employ the Good christians not to respond to this Guy again. I beseech you by the mercies of the Lord |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:55pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
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Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 4:01pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
brainpulse: Are you dissociating yourself from the topic you posted, O my God? I think I am in the wrong session, but wait are you saying all what you put down has nothing to do with your personal conviction and your personal faith? My Lord my savior. I knew you were getting at this. Your apostate religion says we must believe in Pagan trinity to be saved, but this is what the bible says I should do to be saved. "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9 "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38 |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 4:08pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
When servants of God looked into heaven they always only see 2 persons..Yahweh sitting on his mejestic throne,and Jesus his son and servant whom he raised from the dead and glorified,sitting on the right hand side of Yahweh.. I wonder where d holy spirit if it is really a person and also a God that shuld complete the triune equation, to fill up the Godhead is?? We shuld see 3 persons in heaven and nt just. Two..this is heaven we are talkin about Where is d holy spirit my nairaland brothers?? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 4:15pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
DID JESUS PRE-EXIST HIS BIRTH? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by truthislight: 5:08pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
Goshen360: are you so much afraid or the Jws? Why not show Frosbel one scripture that called the holy spirit God like it does Yahweh and Jesus christ? Even satan is directly called god. But you guys want to hoodwink him.. Lol. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by nedostic: 5:24pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
@ All contributors and viewers, This thread has been quite exploratory considering our dissenting views on our understanding of the Holy scriptures. I believe what is of essence is to treat the subject matter via scriptures which Frosbel from my own understanding has been doing even though I do not fully agree with some of his own views. The point I have always said we should ponder is this if the Almighty God is an invisible being,thus, he is a 'Living Spirit' and this makes our God a 'HOLY SPIRIT'. Right or wrong? More so, I am sure without doubt most of us know fully well that the word 'God' is a title. Let us equally recall the baptism of our Saviour- The lord Jesus Christ, how the Spirit descended upon him like a dove. I also believe that our God manifested in the flesh as a Son, as well as a'Heavenly Father'. I have always wanted bible scholars in this forum to adduce the reason why the apostles adopted the name of Jesus Christ as the baptism formula mostly cited in the bible and not in the name of the three titles or the supposedly trinitarian dogma as instructed by Jesus Christ. Could the apostles be termed as disobedient servants in this case? God forbid! I await a response from all your bible scholars on the reasons for the 'paradigm' shift from baptism in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit. Also recall, that name is singular and not pluralized-'in the name of...... Hint: In case you are not sure of how baptism was done by the apostles and the early church, just 'google' it. May God help us all! Let me say that we cannot fully fathom whom God is. Its not possible! |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:29pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
nedostic: @ All contributors and viewers, Well yes, and this is what I have been trying to say for quite a while now. Trying to attribute 2 spirits to God does not make sense. God has one Spirit the Holy Spirit. I also believe that our God manifested in the flesh as a Son, as well as a'Heavenly Father'. I deviate slightly here. I believe in the divinity of Christ but only as far as he was anointed by the Spirit of GOD. God was in Christ not Christ in GOD. Consider the following scripture. "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." - Galatians 2:20 Here we see that we live, yet not us but Christ who lives in us , only as far as we yield to him into obedience. God almighty through his Spirit was able to fully dwell in Christ and anoint him because our meek, loving saviour fully and totally yielded to the father making him ONE with the father in purpose and salvation. I have always wanted bible scholars in this forum to adduce the reason why the apostles adopted the name of Jesus Christ as the baptism formula mostly cited in the bible and not in the name of the three titles or the supposedly trinitarian dogma as instructed by Jesus Christ. Could the apostles be termed as disobedient servants in this case? God forbid! I personally cannot fully understand this aspect, however using the baptism as a premise to support the trinity is null ans void because : 1. The word Trinity is not mentioned 2. The consequence of this statement is not expatiated till we get to the acts of the apostles. You may want to help us with this one. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by aletheia(m): 6:33pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
frosbel: But how can you use the analogy of one Molecule of water to explain the trinity , surely that is a desperate attemptAnd you are desperately blind. One molecule of water? Don't you read? Can't you read. You are as ever the inconsistent hypocrite. Stop whining. If you can attempt to reduce God to Euclidean 3-dimensional arithmetic, I can also attempt to explain using examples from the physical universe. Here is the answer I gave you. . . aletheia:This answer is clear and succinct. . .and all you can see to whine about is "one Molecule of water". frosbel:What is there to explain? God the Father, the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit. . . 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Matthew 4) frosbel: Non-denominational is a meaningless badge. Clever attempt, using obfuscating words while attempting to deflect attention by falsely accusing me of denying the Incarnation of God in the flesh. And yet for all that you still fail to answer the simple question: So my question to you Frosbel is this: Is Jesus Christ God come in the flesh or not? 1. Who is this "messiah" you speak of? Why does the name Jesus Christ stick in your craw? Messiah simply means anointed - it is generic. Why not simply say "I confess that Jesus Christ &c"? 2. The gaping deficiency in your "confession" is apparent. Not only do you fail to say Jesus Christ, you also fail to say "Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh. . ." 3. I have repeatedly maintained that Jesus Christ who in Heaven is the Word of God became Flesh and Blood and is God manifest in the flesh. As it is written: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.. So your slander falls apart. frosbel:Really? Aren't you the one dancing around with 1+1+1. . .It is you who tries to explain or squeeze God into your formulas. Hypocrite accusing others of what you are guilty of on this thread. What is mathematically complex about this example I gave you: I am: Obviously your arguments are so much hot air and emotions tied together by scripture verses taken out of context. Advice to you: Go and do a proper and disciplined bible study instead of regurgitation of others' works all over the place. frosbel: See. An example illustration your poor and ill-disciplined bible study habits. Now read this: 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (1 Cor 15). What do these words 'the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.' tell you? Are these aletheia's words or are these from the bible? frosbel:You are the one obsessed with 3 like your friend Sweetnecta. There is Only One. As I showed you much earlier: So says, Frosbel, the Muslim wannabe.Since you like counting, notice that Rev 5:6 says. . .seven Spirits of God. You see that number seven and have no difficulty accepting that God is One. Be consistent. Had the number seven to your supposed and imaginary pantheon. frosbel:So you agree that the Holy Spirit is God. . .isn't that what "Trinitarians" have been saying all along. Confused frosbel! frosbel: Already shown you that in Heaven, Jesus is the Word of God. He was and is the Word of God pre-Incarnation and post-resurrection. frosbel:Be consistent. . .add the seven Spirits of God in Rev 5:6 too. frosbel: Who is the beginning and end of God's creation , the Alpha and Omega, the very Word of GOD.And Who is God as shown by. . . 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (Rev 21) He who says I am Alpha and Omega says I will be his God, showing He is God. Throughout the book of Revelation we see Jesus saying this: I am Alpha and Omega. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. (Rev 1) 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Rev 1) frosbel: What makes the other manuscripts "more reliable"? 1 John 5:7 (Johannine Comma) is both internally and externally consistent with the rest of the scriptures. . . 1. While the Greek textual evidence is weak, the Latin textual evidence for the Comma is extremely strong. It is in the vast majority of the Old Latin manuscripts 2. Although not found in most Greek manuscripts, the Johannine Comma is found in several. It is contained in 629 (fourteenth century), 61 (sixteenth century), 918 (sixteenth century), 2473 (seventeenth century), and 2318 (eighteenth century). It is also in the margins of 221 (tenth century), 635 (eleventh century), 88 (twelveth century), 429 (fourteenth century), and 636 (fifteenth century). There are about five hundred existing manuscripts of 1 John chapter five that do not contain the Comma. 3. It is clear that the reading found in the Textus Receptus is the minority reading with later textual support from the Greek witnesses. Nevertheless, being a minority reading does not eliminate it as genuine. 4. Internal Evidence: The structure of the Comma is certainly Johannine in style. John is noted for referring to Christ as "the Word." If 1 John 5:7 were an interpretation of verse eight, as some have suggested, than we would expect the verse to use "Son" instead of "Word." However, the verse uses the Greek word logos, which is uniquely in the style of John and provides evidence of its genuineness. Also, we find John drawing parallels between the Trinity and what they testify (1 John 4:13-14). Therefore, it comes as no surprise to find a parallel of witnesses containing groups of three, one heavenly and one earthly. 5. The strongest evidence, however, is found in the Greek text itself. Looking at 1 John 5:8, there are three nouns which, in Greek, stand in the neuter (Spirit, water, and blood). However, they are followed by a participle that is masculine. The Greek phrase here is oi marturountes (who bare witness). Those who know the Greek language understand this to be poor grammar if left to stand on its own. Even more noticeably, verse six has the same participle but stands in the neuter (Gk.: to marturoun). Why are three neuter nouns supported with a masculine participle? The answer is found if we include verse seven. There we have two masculine nouns (Father and Son) followed by a neuter noun (Spirit). The verse also has the Greek masculine participle oi marturountes. With this clause introducing verse eight, it is very proper for the participle in verse eight to be masculine, because of the masculine nouns in verse seven. But if verse seven were not there it would become improper Greek grammar. frosbel: The SON came to reveal the father and he did that 1000% very well. He is the express IMAGE ( not PERSON ) of GOD.And Jesus Christ is God. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:34pm On Sep 08, 2012 |
aletheia: MATE you are preaching a false gospel.. The trinity is PAGAN, Period. |
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