Seun:
Why? Do you promise to abandon your Christian faith if we tell you?

Tell them, show them, prove it to them; christians will never accept anything that goes against their bible, kinda like muslims who will never agree with anyhthing against their religion/quran.

Logicboy03:


Ah....I was patiently waiting for this

Good, let's see if you can keep up.

First off, human reasoning is fallible. There was a time the people believed that the world was flat. That was also a time that religion was the force for understanding he world.

I agree with the bolded. Take note of it

Divine laws or morality and human reasoning are quite incompatible. One is flawed and the other perfect. All the claims in the bible about the divine become void once you claim that it is based n human reasoning,.

Yes a divine law must transcend human laws but then I really won't describe them as "incompatible" though.

Now, there is logic and evidence. We have formulated a body of philosophy to deal with logic. We didnt have this body of philosophy before. Evidence also changes with technology and other advancement. Human reasoning is based on logic and evidence.

But you said that human reasoning is fallible......how can we trust human philosophies and human logic, how can we understand what the evidence is really saying?

The bible is faulty logic and archaic+sparse evidence.

How can you legitimately make this claim with human reasoning which you admit is fallible? You will need infallible divine reasoning in order for you to legitimately make this claim.

Make your conclusions

You have made my point for me. Thanks.

Maybe the only true Christian died on the cross. Cos no man can the perfect reflection of perfect Christ.

Matter is intelligent, man is the example. Higher animals such as apes, octopuses, advanced life in general is intelligent.

Kay 17: Maybe the only true Christian died on the cross. Cos no man can the perfect reflection of perfect Christ.

thank you.

Kay 17: Maybe the only true Christian died on the cross. Cos no man can the perfect reflection of perfect Christ.

......and that is where you miss it. Christianity is not based on our "good works" but on the grace of God towards us. It is a loving relationship with Christ.

Matter is intelligent, man is the example. Higher animals such as apes, octopuses, advanced life in general is intelligent.

If matter can be intelligent, doesn't that point therefore to an intelligent creator?

And once again, the definition of Christianity changes.. Lol...

musKeeto: And once again, the definition of Christianity changes.. Lol...

The definition of everything changes with anony. . .

musKeeto: And once again, the definition of Christianity changes.. Lol...

mazaje: The definition of everything changes with anony. . .

please point out the "change"

Mr_Anony:



please point out the "change"

That's your assignment. The burden of 'deceit' is on you.

musKeeto:
That's your assignment. The burden of 'deceit' is on you.

Just as I thought...once again you have no point so you moan, blame it on anony and walk away. Oh well......

Mr_Anony:
Just as I thought...once again you have no point so you moan, blame it on anony and walk away. Oh well......

Maybe I should start copying and pasting your answers.

Pathetic.

Mr_Anony:



Yes a divine law must transcend human laws but then I really won't describe them as "incompatible" though.

Divine law is perfect. There is no perfect law in human law. It can not exist with humans. Every rule has an exception.

Mr_Anony:
But you said that human reasoning is fallible......how can we trust human philosophies and human logic, how can we understand what the evidence is really saying?

Human reasoning is fallible, yes. However, it doesn mean that it doesnt work. There are things we know that are wrong and there are things we dont know. We know that clinically dead people can not come back to life.

Mr_Anony:
How can you legitimately make this claim with human reasoning which you admit is fallible? You will need infallible divine reasoning in order for you to legitimately make this claim.

Someone that is tipsy will know that he is tipsy. We know the limits of our knowledge. End of story.

Mr_Anony:
You have made my point for me. Thanks.

yawn

Mr_Anony:
......and that is where you miss it. Christianity is not based on our "good works" but on the grace of God towards us. It is a loving relationship with Christ.

You make it sound like Christianity has no 'conditions'. If you disagree and if Christianity does have conditions (like you have said on so many previous threads), then those conditions imply that the Christian still has some work to do: obeying God's commands, studying the word, keeping away from negative thoughts...

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared
that offers salvation to all people.
12 It teaches us to say “No” to
ungodliness and worldly passions,
and to live self-controlled, upright
and godly lives in this present age,
13 while we wait for the blessed hope
—the appearing of the glory of our
great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem
us from all wickedness and to purify
for himself a people that are his very
own, eager to do what is good.

Maybe you need to stop the 'apologetics' and stick to the 'truth of the Word', instead of trying to make it more attractive and 'reasonable' to the atheists.

NB: feel free to give me a lecture on the verses I just put up. I agree with you that I misquoted them.

musKeeto:
You make it sound like Christianity has no 'conditions'. If you disagree and if Christianity does have conditions (like you have said on so many previous threads), then those conditions imply that the Christian still has some work to do: obeying God's commands, studying the word, keeping away from negative thoughts...

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared
that offers salvation to all people.
12 It teaches us to say “No” to
ungodliness and worldly passions,
and to live self-controlled, upright
and godly lives in this present age,
13 while we wait for the blessed hope
—the appearing of the glory of our
great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem
us from all wickedness and to purify
for himself a people that are his very
own, eager to do what is good.

Maybe you need to stop the 'apologetics' and stick to the 'truth of the Word', instead of trying to make it more attractive and 'reasonable' to the atheists.

NB: feel free to give me a lecture on the verses I just put up. I agree with you that I misquoted them.

epic line in bold. Anony might miss the meaning

MusKeeto dear MusKeeto,

Blessed is the womb that bore thee and the breats from which thou suck.

There is no nairaland poster as thee, so full of interesting wits, thou art smart and funny. From thy posts we doth both laugh and learn.

Thou art one of the reasons that Cyrexx will ever remain addicted to nairaland.

cyrexx: MusKeeto dear MusKeeto,

Blessed is the womb that bore thee and the breats from which you suck.

There is no nairaland as thou so full of interesting wits, thou art smart and funny. From thy posts we doth both laugh and learn

Thou art of the reasons that Cyrexx will ever remain addicted to nairaland.

Agreed! Muskeeto is the only one that truly knows how to deal with Anony with humour.


Anony gets on my nerves with his Dinesh D'souza tactics

Logicboy03:

Divine law is perfect. There is no perfect law in human law. It can not exist with humans. Every rule has an exception.

Lol, wouldn't that mean that there must therefore be an exception to the above rule?

Human reasoning is fallible, yes. However, it doesn mean that it doesnt work. There are things we know that are wrong and there are things we dont know. We know that clinically dead people can not come back to life.

How do we know for sure?

Someone that is tipsy will know that he is tipsy. We know the limits of our knowledge. End of story.

In other words, we know what we don't know?

yawn

Loooooool!!

Mr_Anony:
......and that is where you miss it. Christianity is not based on our "good works" but on the grace of God towards us. It is a loving relationship with Christ.

The grace of God covers atheists too, cos it requires zero efforts in terms of belief and conviction, also deeds.

If matter can be intelligent, doesn't that point therefore to an intelligent creator?

Owed to the dynamicism of matter. Matter constantly changes, interacts and changes.

Logicboy03:


Agreed! Muskeeto is the only one that truly knows how to deal with Anony with humour.


Anony gets on my nerves with his Dinesh D'souza tactics

Im waiting for that Dinesh to debate Sam Harris. I'm sure Sam will destroy him.

Sam is kinda like Muskeeto. He delivers like a comedian and makes the religionists look like fools (they call atheists fools, anyway)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwG9pDNSAXA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWwG9pDNSAXA

musKeeto:
You make it sound like Christianity has no 'conditions'. If you disagree and if Christianity does have conditions (like you have said on so many previous threads), then those conditions imply that the Christian still has some work to do: obeying God's commands, studying the word, keeping away from negative thoughts...

I don't think the problem is from me, I think the problem is from what you expect Christianity to be. It is not your "good works" that save you, Christ does by his grace. After you have been redeemed by His grace, you live according to His pleasure not out of compulsion or to score points but out of love for Him.
We don't sin not because we are "trying be holy" - we can't impress God with our "holiness"- but because we love Him and His grace will keep us steadfast in Him. Not by our personal ability but by His grace. I know you know this.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared
that offers salvation to all people.
12 It teaches us to say “No” to
ungodliness and worldly passions,
and to live self-controlled, upright
and godly lives in this present age,
13 while we wait for the blessed hope
—the appearing of the glory of our
great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem
us from all wickedness and to purify
for himself a people that are his very
own, eager to do what is good.

Please read the verses above again and be so kind as to show me exactly how I have contradicted it.

Maybe you need to stop the 'apologetics' and stick to the 'truth of the Word', instead of trying to make it more attractive and 'reasonable' to the atheists.

Apologetics is basically evangelism and it will be wrong if I am preaching anything but truth. The sad thing - it seems to me - is that somehow you want truth to be unreasonable. It isn't.

NB: feel free to give me a lecture on the verses I just put up. I agree with you that I misquoted them.

Please give the verses a second - and possibly third - read.

Mr_Anony:
Lol, wouldn't that mean that there must therefore be an exception to the above rule?

Thanks for evading the point about divine law and bringing up an irrelevant paradox.

Paradox not relevant
-it is only a paradox if the statement is a rule or law itself. The statement is simply an observable fact

Mr_Anony:
How do we know for sure?

How do we know god exists for sure? Mtchew

Mr_Anony:
In other words, we know what we don't know?

No. Stop remixing. It means we know the limits of our knowledge. We know what we know. A biologist knows that he doesnt know physics. He knows his biology but there is a limit to his scientific knowledge

Kay 17:

The grace of God covers atheists too, cos it requires zero efforts in terms of belief and conviction, also deeds.

Of course it is available to you if only you'll accept it. Salvation cannot be forced upon you.

Kay 17: Owed to the dynamicism of matter. Matter constantly changes, interacts and changes.

You and I both know that this explains nothing

Mr_Anony:
I don't think the problem is from me, I think the problem is from what you expect Christianity to be. It is not your "good works" that save you, Christ does by his grace. After you have been redeemed by His grace, you live according to His pleasure not out of compulsion or to score points but out of love for Him.
We don't sin not because we are "trying be holy" - we can't impress God with our "holiness"- but because we love Him and His grace will keep us steadfast in Him. Not by our personal ability but by His grace. I know you know this.

Anony, this is like saying we pass exams not out of compulsion or because we want to impress our teachers/parents, but because we hope to get good jobs.

Question: if the reward for loving God was going to hell, would you still love him?

No matter how you spin this, it remains that God has 'done' something for you, something you cherish so much, that it impresses upon you a sort of 'compulsion/desire' to make him happy, which in turn keeps you in His presence.

What is obedience if there were no repercussions for sin, take Nigeria for example?

Why ask forgiveness if sinning won't take you away from God's presence?

God needs you as much as you need God.

@cyrexx and lb: una wan make my small head swell up abi...

musKeeto:

Anony, this is like saying we pass exams not out of compulsion or because we want to impress our teachers/parents, but because we hope to get good jobs.

Question: if the reward for loving God was going to hell, would you still love him?

No matter how you spin this, it remains that God has 'done' something for you, something you cherish so much, that it impresses upon you a sort of 'compulsion/desire' to make him happy, which in turn keeps you in His presence.

What is obedience if there were no repercussions for sin, take Nigeria for example?

Why ask forgiveness if sinning won't take you away from God's presence?

God needs you as much as you need God.

@bolded.

You just nailed it, man.

Yahweh cannot survive without our belief in him and our worship of him. He is a needy god and a puny god.

Richard Dawkins correctly describes him thus:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak"
- Richard Dawkins

This has got to be one of the best anti-Anonyism threads ever. The other best anti-Aonyism thread is the one on souls.


Anony was destroyed by bith christians and atheists. This is what happens when you lie and spin so much Anony. It gets to a time when people are fed up of your lies

Earlier on in this thread, our hero says;

Mr_Anony:
Lol, I didn't realize that we were arguing in the first place. All I have been doing is pointing out your flawed logic. I haven't really been arguing a position.

Just so you know what you are dealing with, let's go back a few weeks in time

https://www.nairaland.com/1132300/religion-true-why-then-feel/5

Mr_Anony:

I have asked you previously to state your stance. "Do you believe the future is fixed or not?" You have declined to answer but you want to argue on both sides of the question. You can't have it both ways sir.

wiegraf:

This is why you are considered, well...
My position isn't being debated, mr lalala, yours is. I have not made any claims as to what whether I believe the future is fixed or not, or you didn't notice that? You, on the other hand, have. I am pointing out that your claim is complete and utter rubbish thus you should not attach the word logic to it, as it's insulting the intelligence of those around you. How would you feel if I constantly claimed that bill gates lawns my grass? That's how others feel when you go around claiming your ideas are logical.

Mr_Anony:

If an omniscient being exists, then the future is fixed. The question that follows from here is: Is the future fixed? It is now whether the future is fixed or not fixed that will determine the existence of an omniscient being according to your premise. You have declined to answer.
If you can't tell me whether the future is fixed or not, then you also lose the grounds to argue for the non-existence of an omniscient being. Your argument is incomplete, you cannot have it both ways.

To reject a position, you must have a counter-position which accept based upon which you reject the position else your objection is null. You cannot argue in a vacuum.

wiegraf: ....
....


Suddenly, you've forgotten how the burden of proof works. Was it earlier in this thread or another where you miraculously understood how it worked when it benefited you? Or are you working around proven facts somewhere here that I have to disprove?

Let me explain what we have here, you have basically claimed 1+1=3. I don't have to prove to you 1 + 1 = 2 to point out you're so, so wrong. I don't have to know the answer, I don't have to show you an alternative answer. All I have to do is prove your claim is false. All I have to do is show you that 1 + 1 != 3. Do you understand now?



You see the bolded? That is all. There is no question asked after that. Once examined (a step you seem to be skipping or ignoring), that there is a 1 + 1 = 2 fact. It is our 1 + 1 != 3 to be more accurate. The rest of the text there is completely irrelevant (and features some more crazy anonilogic), it in no way shows how that fact right there can be wrong. It is simple logic.

Also, as I have told you several times, I am not making a claim. I am simply pointing out a fact. Omniscience without any probabilities or chance involved is only possible with predestination. Simple. Once you say there is no chance whatsoever of yahweh being wrong, then the universe and all in it (including him) are predetermined.


I am not make any claims ffs. I don't believe in gods, santa, satan, omoniscients, blah 4king blah so wtf should I be making claims about these? All I do is show you when you make a nonsense claim that it is nonsense...

4k

Mr_Anony:
Actually, if you don't think that 1+1=3, you must show that 1+1=2. You can't claim that something is wrong without pointing out why it is wrong by showing what the right answer ought to be.

wiegraf:

This is unadulterated folly, so drop it as it's again, really irritating. This is the more accurate version
"You can't claim that something is wrong without pointing out why it is wrong OR by showing what the right answer ought to be."

All I have to do is show you why, the rest is optional. Seems to me you operate as if you already have a conclusion and do everything you can to match it. If whatever steps you have drawn out do not add up logically, then you are wrong. Simple.

Supposing I had an hourglass built to last 1 hour exactly, set it up and made my way to Pikkiwokki's house while moving at 60km/h and steadily maintained that speed. Supposing by the time I reached my destination the hourglass was used up yet I still claimed that I covered only 60km, would you need to know the exact distance I traveled before pointing out I was being stoopid? Simple. A-4king-gain. It does not add up. Quit this as it's very 4king basic, as basic as it gets, yet you somehow don't understand it now that it seems to not be in your favor.

Mr_Anony:
yawns

......
This is the monster you're debating with?!

Oh yes, @mos, well played good ser, well played.

musKeeto:
You make it sound like Christianity has no 'conditions'. If you disagree and if Christianity does have conditions (like you have said on so many previous threads), then those conditions imply that the Christian still has some work to do: obeying God's commands, studying the word, keeping away from negative thoughts...

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared
that offers salvation to all people.
12 It teaches us to say “No” to
ungodliness and worldly passions,
and to live self-controlled, upright
and godly lives in this present age,
13 while we wait for the blessed hope
—the appearing of the glory of our
great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem
us from all wickedness and to purify
for himself a people that are his very
own, eager to do what is good.

Maybe you need to stop the 'apologetics' and stick to the 'truth of the Word', instead of trying to make it more attractive and 'reasonable' to the atheists.

NB: feel free to give me a lecture on the verses I just put up. I agree with you that I misquoted them.

*Smh*

Mr_Anony:
I don't think the problem is from me, I think the problem is from what you expect Christianity to be. It is not your "good works" that save you, Christ does by his grace. After you have been redeemed by His grace, you live according to His pleasure not out of compulsion or to score points but out of love for Him.
We don't sin not because we are "trying be holy" - we can't impress God with our "holiness"- but because we love Him and His grace will keep us steadfast in Him. Not by our personal ability but by His grace. I know you know this.


Please read the verses above again and be so kind as to show me exactly how I have contradicted it.


Apologetics is basically evangelism and it will be wrong if I am preaching anything but truth. The sad thing - it seems to me - is that somehow you want truth to be unreasonable. It isn't.


Please give the verses a second - and possibly third - read.

"do you not know that they that run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain the prize.
And every man that takes part in a context excersis self control in all things, Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."
"I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so, the way i am directing my blows is so as not to strike the air: But I pummel my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should not be disapproved some how." (1 Corinthians 9:24-27)

christianity is not lawlessness.

@truthislight: regarding slavery in the new testament, what you're saying is that you will interpret the word "slave" as "servant" or "employee" in some contexts and as the original meaning in some other contexts. In other words, you will pick the definition that fits your current beliefs better in every case. That's absurd, but I'll drop it.

My original argument, which you were trying to challenge, was that the bible does not condemn the practice of slavery. This remains true.

cyrexx:

@bolded.

You just nailed it, man.

Yahweh cannot survive without our belief in him and our worship of him. He is a needy god and a puny god.

Richard Dawkins correctly describes him thus:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak"
- Richard Dawkins

this is purely a statement burn out of complete ignorance, or egotistical self importance out of nothing.
a life you dont even know how you come to be, 60 or 80yrs life and pheeeeewwwww, gone!

What happened to Yahweh befor human was created?

Dont you know he has a host of spirit sons very powerful angels also and they have been with him long befor humans were created? What is mortal man?

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;"
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?" (Job 38:4-
.....................

Yehwah have his spirit sons long befor the earth was created and they dont die like grasses, here today and tomorrow are no more. Imagine!
Just Imagine the pot abusing potter:

"Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hands of the potter: so the potter made it again into another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it."
"Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel." (Jeremiah 18:3-10)
.....................

Just as a potter can do whatever he wishes to do with the clay, breaking it as it pleases him and moulding it as it pleases him so Yahweh can do with the human he formed from the dust.
Yes, he can do whatever he wants and there is nothing you can do about it.
Maybe when you are dust you will have the mouth to abused him still, How wise you are?
...................

Yes, he is showing interest any further towards human because of christ and christ loves humans.

So:

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

Oversize ego!
*sigh*