Rich4god:
Let me give you a parable...
A man leave in a house with his friends (4 in number) and they are all idol worshippers. Now they are all working in a company, where they go to work around 7am and come back by 9pm. So their schedule is like this. They wake up by 5am, praise and worship their god/idol btw 5-6am, then have their breakfast and go to work by 7am. When they comeback from work by 9pm, they have their dinner then @ 9:30pm they pray to their idol for an hour and go to bed by 10:30pm. Now it happened that they get converted to christianity and because of their way/time of work they worship/pray to God at exactly 5-6am and 9:30pm in the same house that they are leaving in. Now my question is, does that mean they are still leaving a life of paganism.

God is not to adapt to anyman, its not how we want it, but how God wants it. The time we pray to God is not what we are talking about, the pagans that got converted are surposed to let go thier feast. Instead, they held on to it. If they had let it go for once, you and i will not be arguing here.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ask urself, what are the old things that are passed away? The old ways of life, you do not have to modify it to make it look Godly, NO.
You have to let go all unGodly activities. When God told Lot not to look back, He and His daughters obeyed, but His wife disobeyed...She looked back...why?
I believe you know why....do not be like LOT's wife. Let go completely unGodly activities God is not the own of Christmas, He is not there.

Zikkyy:

...and I showed you the positive outcome which cancels your negative outcome. Why do you keep ignoring that one? Is it because it nullifies your argument?

Please sir, repost that ur positive outcome, i may not see it, pardon.

Rich4god:
How do you know its for pagan to surface and rule... Are you the pagan that wants to surface?

The evidence is evrywhere..if you're not seeing it then you need glasses..........

plappville:
Many who are doing christmas are doing it because they think that following the crowd is easy. Not because they want to follow Gods law.

I agree many are doing Xmas without asking questions. But how many of the global celebrants are true Christians, I don't know. I don't like speaking for others, (the reason I have used myself for the purpose of this discussion) but I can tell you I won't be supporting Xmas celebration if I find something wrong with the idea of celebrating Christ. It's possible some activities are uncalled for, but I see nothing wrong in the idea and that is what I practice.

Zikkyy:

You create a reason for my actions so you can tell me you version of the truth. I asked you earlier, please tell me if the saturnalia worshippers I copied Xmas had Santa Claus and used Xmas tree on their saturnalia worship? You can't come here accusing me of copying saturnalia way of worship and yet refuse to confirm if the activities you accused me of copying are actually saturnalia activities. Please confirm if Xmas tree and Santa are saturnalia activities.

I didn't create a reason for you,I just told you what is real..........now you are asking questions which plapville had discussed at the beginning of this post.......go to the encyclopedia and read about yuletide,saturlania........etc........I'm done moving in circles with you..........go and trace your celebration from the fathers of it......because I'm so sure you won't see it in the bible or from servants of God....oya go do research......if you've chosen to dodge reality na you sabi..........

Rich4god:
Dont mind them, let them keep on been selective/myopic in their way of judgement.

You talk of Ring, Scriptures were presented, you talk of wedding robes scriptures where presented, Days of the week, God made it all.
Now you talk of Xmas, a feast that was adopted by Christian, Sorry, the bible only warn you to beware of such!.

If traditions like Christmas, easter, etc etc are not observed today, i personally would have said, what sense does Jesus made warning His church on men traditions?
But thank God, Jesus foresaw men traditions in His church, so His warning are useful to many today.

Zikkyy:

Who told you God is angry? This again is your personal opinion. I can confirm to you that God is truly happy with me.

Its not my personal opinion its what it is...........Jesus can't be happy with you for celebrating xmas....its a myth and a lie..........Jesus wasn't born on xmas day and xmas had its origin from pagan celebrations.......have you not been listenening??........Jesus and his Father can't be glossed with LIE's and paganism........go and read the catholic encyclopedia and find out the truth.....

Zikkyy:

I agree many are doing Xmas without asking questions. But how many of the global celebrants are true Christians, I don't know. I don't like speaking for others, (the reason I have used myself for the purpose of this discussion) but I can tell you I won't be supporting Xmas celebration if I find something wrong with the idea of celebrating Christ. It's possible some activities are uncalled for, but I see nothing wrong in the idea and that is what I practice.

That's why i have told you several times that the choice is ours. God does not force anyone to do things.
As your mind is fixed on Xmas, You will rarely find anything wrong with it.

plappville:

The Scripture presented God servants cursing thier date of birth. Are you saying they didn't?
I am not telling you to curse urs, just showing that the day a man is born is of no importance.
As Christians, where we are going is far better than where we are now.

There will be a reason for anybody cursing the day he was. Go back and read that bible verse carefully, am sure it wad a sad man cursing the day he was born. Such curses are rare and not done for fun. It is not something to follow.

Rich4god:
So you know this and yet you keep saying that we are of pagans.

No one is calling you a pagan, it isthe feast that is pagan, you may find urself not pleasing God for partaking in this feast.

Zikkyy:

Kids are from God, does passing them through fire make the kids pagan? If not, Xmas tree cannot be pagan because pagans used it sometime back knowing Xmas tree is also from God.

The individuals passing the kids through fire are the heathens...............same goes for individuals who use trees in religiuos festivals which the xmas starters adopted......if you haven't gotten this point I have to keep SMH!!!!!..............the use of the xmas tree didn't fall from heaven,,,it had a start...what prompted the start and its usage in religious festivals is what we are considering...........

plappville:

Zikkyy, the Church still keep the trees and other Christmas decorations, caros are used, etc...You cannot change the uniformity of this old custom.

The only thing they didn't continue in is the killing of thier infants children. The decoration and disguise remains.

So the activities we retained are just a couple of decorations? Probably natural items created God for our use. That said kindly confirm if these items or decorations were carried over from saturnalia worship. Thanks.

Zikkyy:

Lol! you are a clown. My reason for doing what I do is not acceptable. You had to come up with a reason on my behalf and force me to accept it. That way you are able to call me an idol worshipper smh...

When you follow the ways of pagans that is what you get.............keep collaborating with persons who had no job but to scavenge from the waste bin(pagan world) to pick up a celebration for Jesus that isn't even accepted and instituted by Christ himself..........

You had in the beginning agreed Christ was never born on xmas day,...that alone is enough reason for me not to take you serious on this xmas issue......you see truth and you run far away from it....to gain what??.......to wallow In presumptuousness ..........

Zikkyy:

There will be a reason for anybody cursing the day he was. Go back and read that bible verse carefully, am sure it wad a sad man cursing the day he was born. Such curses are rare and not done for fun. It is not something to follow.

Whatever the reason, do they have to curse a day God brought them to this world? something you should start taking a deep look at.
King Solomon was inspired to write:

Ecclesiastes 5:15-16 As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand. [16] And this also is a sore evil, that in all points as he came, so shall he go: and what profit hath he that hath laboured for the wind?

Does this sound like a day to look forward to? NO . The Scripture is still telling that the day this verse describes is better than the day of one’s birth.

Has any of the Christmas lovers on this thread bothered to find out for themselves the origin of the unique Christmas decorations and practices? Am sure you'll find it enlightening. These things are best researched instead of asking others for the information. You owe yourself that much so at least you know why you do what you do, where it came from and how it started.

plappville:
You have to let go all unGodly activities.

This is where I have issues with you. You are yet to show me why you consider my feasting/special meal becomes ungodly. If I used a plant used by pagans at some point for a different purpose I don't see how that becomes ungodly. We don't even know if God's people used that same plant at some time in their history. Besides a larger variety of plants serve the purpose today. More than what the pagan used.

plappville:

Please sir, repost that ur positive outcome, i may not see it, pardon.

I referred you to same birthday by pharaoh, yes a life was lost, but at that same party, a life wad restored. And it was the life that was restored/saved that got Joseph out of jail. Joseph went on to become a great man. God used that birthday to realise his plans for lsrael.

TroGunn: Has any of the Christmas lovers on this thread bothered to find out for themselves the origin of the unique Christmas decorations and practices? Am sure you'll find it enlightening. These things are best researched instead of asking others for the information. You owe yourself that much so at least you know why you do what you do, where it came from and how it started.

That's all I've been telling zikky to do but he keeps pushing this discussion further..............I still wonder why we are arguing with persons who had agreed that Jesus wasn't born on xmas day ................

Rich4god: Bottomline is... God created everything in this world, and everything he created is for His own glory. Nothing that he created that is bad except if you want it to be bad. That my igbo ancestors dedicated their yam to any gods/idol/diety during their new yam festival does not make me a pagan when i offer yam as an offering in church. That sango priest wore a yellow wrapper to his shrine does not make me a pagan if i wore a yellow wrapper to church on my child dedication. That muslims wore turban and "tazarce" to their mosque does not make me a muslum when i wear one to church. That any pagan worshipper dedicated iroko tree to their idol does not mean that i am indulging inpaganism if i make use of iroko tree as medicine or anything. Its what you do or how you do it that matters. So plz, spare me all that christmass and idol worship relationship. As long as i have been following this thread, you guys have not provided why xmas is paganism, all you keep saying is that pagans did this or did that. And i have eqully shown some example of your practices that pagans too used, but you dodge away from it.

God bless u bro. I like pple dat tink and not robotic in their reasoning. Just cos an organization u associate with tells u many things does not mean they are always right in all things dey tell u.

I like ur analogy, very logical to a layman dat wants to open his brain and tink out hw two plus two becomes four. Its only a child dat refuses to grow dat will be spool fed even at 5yrs of age (nt to insult pls, but making a point).

During dec period many companies decorate their buildings, repaints, change furnitures, give hampers to customers and friends all in d name of xmas and yet some pple are not happy. They claim xmas lite, xmas tree, xmas hampers and gift, xmas carrol are all pagan in practice and yet dis same critics cannot open a thread dat condemns boko haram bombing of churches durin xmas. To dem bombin and destruction during xmas in no issue, their headache is y pple are celebrating and showing love for xmas sake. Na waoooo.

I believ pple should hav a more positiv way of seeing and judgin things as it goes in the world, especially wen no civil disturbance is not tolerated and social order is maintained.

Critism must be carried out with common sense.

ijawkid:

I didn't create a reason for you,I just told you what is real..........now you are asking questions which plapville had discussed at the beginning of this post.......go to the encyclopedia and read about yuletide,saturlania........etc........I'm done moving in circles with you..........go and trace your celebration from the fathers of it......because I'm so sure you won't see it in the bible or from servants of God....oya go do research......if you've chosen to dodge reality na you sabi..........

You have told me what is real in the world you have created for me. It is not real in my world. I find it difficult reconciling what you accuse me of doing with what I actually do.

Now you again avoid questions. You accused me of carrying over saturnalia activities, I can't find evidence that they had Santa Claus, I can't evidence that they used Xmas tree for saturnalia worship. Mr ijawkid, what exactly did I carry over that is pagan? Tell me. Don't go hiding behind funny excuses.

ijawkid:

Its not my personal opinion its what it is...........Jesus can't be happy with you for celebrating xmas....its a myth and a lie..........Jesus wasn't born on xmas day and xmas had its origin from pagan celebrations.......have you not been listenening??........Jesus and his Father can't be glossed with LIE's and paganism........go and read the catholic encyclopedia and find out the truth.....

You are not a serious man. Is it in the Catholic encyclopedia I will find that Jesus is not happy. To date Jesus has not told me he is not happy. Where is the lie? You received a call from Jesus and he told you he is not happy with zikkyy? You have claimed Jesus for yourself and probably believe you have sole access. In my book that on its own is wrong.

plappville:

That's why i have told you several times that the choice is ours. God does not force anyone to do things.
As your mind is fixed on Xmas, You will rarely find anything wrong with it.

It applies to you as well. It's your choice not to.

Zikkyy:

You have told me what is real in the world you have created for me. It is not real in my world. I find it difficult reconciling what you accuse me of doing with what I actually do.

Now you again avoid questions. You accused me of carrying over saturnalia activities, I can't find evidence that they had Santa Claus, I can't evidence that they used Xmas tree for saturnalia worship. Mr ijawkid, what exactly did I carry over that is pagan? Tell me. Don't go hiding behind funny excuses.

I'm not going behind funny excuses...............you had dodged the clearest of truths and you are coming here to ask questions that the OP had answered and which you can research since you love being proud about xmas.......like I said I regret ever taking this discussion this far....you already knw xmas is a scam.....Jesus wasn't born on xmas day(dec 25th).....that is enough of evidence for one who loves truth to discard this rubbish celebration called xmas........all your questions can be answered from the catholic encyclopedia and the wikipedia.............go and search out the origin of father xmas and the xmas tree......that shouldn't be hard for you....most importantly search out the origin of dec 25th(the foundation of this whole xmas celebration) as the birthday of Jesus.........do your research and stop this stubbornness..........

Zikkyy:

You are not a serious man. Is it in the Catholic encyclopedia I will find that Jesus is not happy. To date Jesus has not told me he is not happy. Where is the lie? You received a call from Jesus and he told you he is not happy with zikkyy? You have claimed Jesus for yourself and probably believe you have sole access. In my book that on its own is wrong.

It is in the catholic encyclopedia that you will find out that the xmas is a farce,a hoax........

.........

And you have been the one not serious......

I only used scriptures to know that Yahweh and his son are not happy with you and other xmas celebrants.........I'm not speaking of my own initiative.........its obvious Jesus won't be happy with a myth called xmas....thank you....

ijawkid:

The individuals passing the kids through fire are the heathens...............same goes for individuals who use trees in religiuos festivals which the xmas starters adopted......if you haven't gotten this point I have to keep SMH!!!!!..............the use of the xmas tree didn't fall from heaven,,,it had a start...what prompted the start and its usage in religious festivals is what we are considering...........

This is the last comment I will make on this particular issue. The individuals passing the kids are pagans agreed. But it does not make kids pagan items. Replace kids with trees to understand what am saying.

What the various societies use a God created item for is of no relevance to me or you. What matters to God is that you use it for an activity that is acceptable to him. That should be your concern. If you spend time looking at what people use things of nature for you are likely to consider the possibility of migrating to planet Mars.

plappville:

Whatever the reason, do they have to curse a day God brought them to this world? something you should start taking a deep look at.
King Solomon was inspired to write:

Ecclesiastes 5:15-16 As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his laboiur, which he may carry away in his hand. [16] And this also is a sore evil, that in all points as he came, so shall he go: and what profit hath he that hath laboured for the wind?

Does this sound like a day to look forward to? NO . The Scripture is still telling that the day this verse describes is better than the day of one’s birth.

The above talks about life in general and not birth. He is saying your hustling and time spent in front of the mirror with your make-up kit are all in vain.

Zikkyy:

You talking but not saying anything. I ask you again, was the kids the issue or was it what they used the kids for? God will not be angry if I have an Xmas tree at home. He made and I can put it anywhere I like in my house just like any other plant. Don't you know our native/witch doctors use almost all the herbs/plants available for their medicine including the one you use to cook that spicy vegetable soup you love. Can you then say, its pagan and we should do away with the vegetables?

what kind of gist is this?

Zikky, you have started falling your hand, dont make people take you that did a very good work on the tith thread to start taking your post for granted with this kind of post that has little sense in it.

My 2 cent.

Zikkyy:

This is the last comment I will make on this particular issue. The individuals passing the kids are pagans agreed. But it does not make kids pagan items. Replace kids with trees to understand what am saying.

What the various societies use a God created item for is of no relevance to me or you. What matters to God is that you use it for an activity that is acceptable to him. That should be your concern. If you spend time looking at what people use things of nature for you are likely to consider the possibility of migrating to planet Mars.

You are not understanding....definitly the kids aint pagan items,trees planted in the forest aint pagan items...........even humans aint pagan items...but God has commanded us to not copy the ways of pagans and not even to go near them...God has even commanded us to avoid certain humans(humans he created) if we want our worship to be clean...........the issue here is adopting practices of the heathens and not materials created by God...you are the one who has chosen not to understand simple truth.......ofcus everything is created by God,but God gives us the command to have no dealings with pagans and there ways....satan the ruler of this world has definitly stained a lot of things that should have been normal to servants of God...........why on earth do you think God would put down laws and constraints on how we act and how we should worship him??.......you think God is a fool for sending his son to teach us how we should serve him and the customs we should imbibe??.......the apostles were also there to show us the way and lay foundation for true worship..... But here we are battling over a celebration Christ never thought of..........and you instead of following precept upon precept to scrutinize what you engage in you are acting like an ignorant person..I least expected you to drag this topic far.......

The whole foundation of xmas which is december 25th has been known and agreed to be a fraud and a myth but still you push further............like I said earlier ""NA YOU SABI"".....................

Rich4god:
Hmmmm. So you know this and when we celebrate birthday/christmas to rejoice while serving God you end up calling us pagans. SMH. Stop being myopic my dear bother. I guess you have now join the league of those that plappville is calling chop chop people.

Jesus enjoyed himself but not under the disguise of peganistic party.

plappville:

As Christians, where we are going is far better than where we are now.

Much as disagree with you on the christmas issue, let me quickly salute you for the above comment. These are statements that i love to hear from christians. Look, plappvile i really appreciate this one thing in you- your desire to follow the bible strictly and its wonderful. Only pray for more wisdom and understanding to interprete the scriptures well. God bless you my sister.

Zikkyy:

So the activities we retained are just a couple of decorations? Probably natural items created God for our use. That said kindly confirm if these items or decorations were carried over from saturnalia worship. Thanks.

Na so you like argument? abi na because we all na christian make u de gredie to make a point...
If you met with true pagans, when still dey keep thier yule feast till date, i tell you, you for no get mouth to talk, them go tell you say, the feast na thier own...
All the deco and co no change at all, only just modernized, Chineke mo...Zikkyy no won leave pagan people with thier festival ooo!!

TroGunn: Has any of the Christmas lovers on this thread bothered to find out for themselves the origin of the unique Christmas decorations and practices? Am sure you'll find it enlightening. These things are best researched instead of asking others for the information. You owe yourself that much so at least you know why you do what you do, where it came from and how it started.

I trust they know but will keep a blind eyes to what they read. It doesn't really matter where it originated from and it purpose.
What matters is as long as they join the leading group in the chop chop thing...