ezme:

I saw from the Child support thread that you lack the ability to control your emotions when trying to make premises, I would not have this debate with you until you show some respect.

Seems you are new here, he is a cool guy but is known for his emotional outburst. . .Don't take his outburst seriously. . .

davidylan:

hmm and we should care why?

Maybe my thought process is distorted but between an atheist and a Christian who practices blind faith?

Logicboy03:



lol....you are not a scientist, you confirmed it when you were caught lying about evolution while claiming to be a biologist!


How caqn science prove God? I can bring you 1000 physics, biology and chemistry textbooks without one mention of god.


Religion and science are separate.

you have never been serious in all your life.

Of course science textbooks dont have "God" in them... however if you took 3 secs to think you just might find Him hiding in the recesses of those pages.

ezme: Maybe my thought process is distorted but between an atheist and a Christian who practices blind faith?

The atheist.

The christian places faith in Jesus. the atheist places faith in science textbooks. no one is a blank slate, you are either on one side or the other... you pick your choice.

davidylan:

As a scientist, why would i be afraid of such a thing? If anything, science is the affirmation that God does exist. If you spent 2 mins reading an anatomy or molecular cell biology book you would never be an atheist.

And which anatomy or molecular cell biology book mentions god any where?. . .In what part of the human cell can your god's signature be found so that we can know that all the cells in the human body came about from his magical ability to turn sand into living cells and not as a result of evolution or the creation of other gods like allah or anu? What concrete evidence to you have to show that your god alone created the cells in all humans?. . .

davidylan:

The atheist.

The christian places faith in Jesus. the atheist places faith in science textbooks. no one is a blank slate, you are either on one side or the other... you pick your choice.

Davidylan wants no one to be a blank slate as such it must be true, eh?. . .

mazaje:

And which anatomy or molecular cell biology book mentions god any where?. . .In what part of the human cell can your god's signature be found so that we can know that all the cells in the human body came about from his magical ability to turn sand into living cells and not as a result of evolution or the creation of other gods like allah or anu? What concrete evidence to you have to show that your god alone created the cells in all humans?. . .

Obviously you cant read either. I said science AFFIRMS God... you can affirm something without mentioning it by name.

mazaje:

Davidylan wants no one to be a blank slate as such it must be true, eh?. . .

you can pretend all you want... no one is a blank slate.

You go around claiming people are disingenuous. So, what is this? Or you've never heard these arguments before? After 30,000 posts you still don't understand the position of most atheists (not all of us, but I'll suspend that for a while)?

To clarify

davidylan:

There is virtually no difference between no atheist and the christian in that case... since both start from the same point - i dont know. The christian only claims he knows BY FAITH in Jesus Christ. The atheist doesnt know because he chooses to rely on his own fallible nature.

Very silly. Very. Atheists, and again, not all of us, choose to rely on FACTS

I'm waiting for it, criticism of the scientific method from a scientist. I hope you're not there just to sabotage $hit

davidylan:
Now lets look at what you said for the atheist. The idea that the atheist claims he doesnt know is actually FALSE...

In what alternare universe? Unlike you, most of us don't deal with absolutes and puerile logic. As already stated, one does not need to know the solution before one can declare a possible solution as false. Very.Simple.

davidylan:
because that would presume that the atheist is actually objectively OPEN to any idea that might provide the truth.

Wrong conclusion due to wrong premise. But let me fix this for you

me:
the atheist is actually objectively OPEN to any reasonable, valid idea that might provide the truth.

davidylan:
In reality, the position of the atheist is - I KNOW IT IS NOT GOD... he then goes around ferreting for just about anything to justify a stance he has already made WITHOUT evidence.

Great scientist, when did you prove there was a god? Who in what universe made a claim without any evidence whatsoever except a book of fairy tales?

I'll add this though, as long as you're talking about deities, especially yahweh and other personal gods

me:
I KNOW IT IS NOT GOD

mazaje:
You are not making a claim that the answer is 10 and you are asking me how I know the answer is not 10?. . .Read at the nonsense you have typed and see if it makes any sense to you. . .Seriously did you just type this?. . .

You made the claim that the answer cannot be 10. Is it so hard to explain how you know this?

No god can be shown to exist on its own independent of human stories, human culture and human societal acceptance. . .Each culture and civilization creates it own god(s). . .The reason there are so many countless gods is because humans created them. . .God is a human idea and a human creation. .Here is a list of gods that begin with the alphabet A created by different cultures and civilizations. . .

Agdistis
Ah Puch
Ahura Mazda
Alberich
Allah
Amaterasu SUN GODS AND GODDESSES
An
Anahita WAR GODS AND GODDESSES
Anansi
Anat
Andvari
Anshar
Anu

Lol, many cultures also have different concepts of what it means to be beautiful, does it mean therefore that beauty is a man-made idea that does not exist?

And the passage and evidence that bacteria was created by your god can be found in which passage and chapter of the bible(his alleged words that humans wrote for him)?

Interesting how you pulled a strawman rather than answer my question......how irrational of you.

davidylan:

The atheist.

The christian places faith in Jesus. the atheist places faith in science textbooks. no one is a blank slate, you are either on one side or the other... you pick your choice.

What in the universe is this?!

wiegraf:
Very silly. Very. Atheists, and again, not all of us, choose to rely on FACTS

tomorrow this one too will show up demanding "respect".

wiegraf:
I'm waiting for it, criticism of the scientific method from a scientist. I hope you're not there just to sabotage $hit

I dont criticize the scientific method, i only sneer at non-scientists who try to use the great work that others have done as a figleaf for their own personal choices. It is ok not to believe in God... to pretend that somehow your choice is based on a rational assessment and understanding of the scientific process is a complete joke. Like i will always say, science is not about copy-pasting articles from the web.

wiegraf:
In what alternare universe? Unlike you, most of us don't deal with absolutes and puerile logic. As already stated, one does not need to know the solution before one can declare a possible solution as false. Very.Simple.

That in itself is confirmation that you do not understand the scientific process... see in all my experience, i've never seen scientists who just shouted "wrong" without providing alternate evidence... a thing that you seriously lack.

I'll give you a hint, when we have to respond to a scientific theory that we disagree with... no one will take you serious if you just write "i disagree!" What is expected is that you CLEARLY explain what you disagree with and provide COMPELLING EVIDENCE why you think your ideas are correct. Errr where have you shown that you understand that process?

wiegraf:
Wrong conclusion due to wrong premise. But let me fix this for you

The atheist is only open to anything... as long as it has nothing to do with God. You claim that the atheist is open to "objective and valid" theories... bogus nonsense. If that is the case then why is the atheist wasting his time crowing about evolution theories he cannot explain?

wiegraf:
Great scientist, when did you prove there was a god? Who in what universe made a claim without any evidence whatsoever except a book of fairy tales?

I'll add this though, as long as you're talking about deities, especially yahweh and other personal gods

Word salad alert.

Mr_Anony:
You made the claim that the answer cannot be 10. Is it so hard to explain how you know this?

Its simple. . .You can not multiple a 4 digit number with a an eight digit number and arrive at a two digit number as your answer. . .

Lol, many cultures also have different concepts of what it means to be beautiful, does it mean therefore that beauty is a man-made idea that does not exist?

Beauty is something that can be seen and is self evident even though it is subjective and differs from culture or society to society. . .God on the other hand is NOT self evident the way beauty is. . .No god can be shown to exist on its own independent of human stories, culture and societal acceptance. . .Pls describe your good to me. . .How does he look like since the men that allegedly serve as his mouth piece(since he can speak for himself) claim that he is in the image of man. What does he look like?. . .What form does he have? Is he muscular. fat, skinny? If he appears to me(many claim he appears to them) how can I know its him and not another man?. . .Give me his description. . .How does his voice sound like(many people claim he speaks to them) so that if I hear it I can know that it is him speaking. . .What language those he speak?. . .Since he exist outside time and space, what medium or how does he interact with men that live within time and space. . .

Interesting how you pulled a strawman rather than answer my question......how irrational of you.

I repeat, the passage and evidence that bacteria was created by your god can be found in which passage and chapter of the bible?

davidylan:

That's absolute nonsense... i was measured in my approach with those who were interested in civil discourse. For those who want to act like vagabonds while howling at others to "respect them"... well you can find that "respect" elsewhere. On that same thread, i had a nice convo with many others, so try the character assassination trick again.

To the point of the matter... if you cannot take the heat that your own illogical premise brings... feel free to stay out of the thread. If you are looking for docile christians who allow atheists to just spout off, insult their faith, call their sense of judgement into question while whinning for "respect"... you just entered the wrong thread. Have fun in the jokes section.

Just so you know I presently share your Christian faith, and I don't see where faith comes in when talking about Atheism. They don't have a holy book containing tenets by which they live. All they are asking for is a reason to believe, Christians haven't given them that.

ezme:

Just so you know I presently share your Christian faith, and I don't see where faith comes in when talking about Atheism. They don't have a holy book containing tenets by which they live. All they are asking for is a reason to believe, Christians haven't given them that.

Davidylans reason to believe is, I have been indoctrinated since childhood, and even though my indoctrinations lacks complete and credible evidence to support them, they are true and must be believed. . .That is his own reason to believe. . .

ezme:

Just so you know I presently share your Christian faith, and I don't see where faith comes in when talking about Atheism. They don't have a holy book containing tenets by which they live. All they are asking for is a reason to believe, Christians haven't given them that.

For starters, why dont you give them since you claim to be a christian too?

1. To say that atheism is not a faith is evidence you dont understand what the issue truly is. Faith is not merely when you claim allegiance to a pixie in the sky... infact one definition of "faith" says it this way - Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Atheists show complete confidence in one thing - the validity of science and its ability to explain away anything that has the remotest sniff of "divine intelligence". If that isnt faith then i dont know what is.

As an aside, atheists arent asking for a reason to believe as much as they are trying too hard to justify their own decision to NOT believe. Aside from walking them right down to God's bedroom... they are not interested in anything else.

2. lol so only people who have a holy book can lay claim to a faith? Bro pls move on to less serious threads... this is not for jokers.

mazaje:

Davidylans reason to believe is, I have been indoctrinated since childhood, and even though my indoctrinations lacks complete and credible evidence to support them, they are true and must be believed. . .That is his own reason to believe. . .

and you can provide credible evidence to the alternative?

davidylan:

For starters, why dont you give them since you claim to be a christian too?

1. To say that atheism is not a faith is evidence you dont understand what the issue truly is. Faith is not merely when you claim allegiance to a pixie in the sky... infact one definition of "faith" says it this way - Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Atheists show complete confidence in one thing - the validity of science and its ability to explain away anything that has the remotest sniff of "divine intelligence". If that isnt faith then i dont know what is.


2. lol so only people who have a holy book can lay claim to a faith? Bro pls move on to less serious threads... this is not for jokers.

Davidylan is a brainwashed tool....atheism is a stance on the existence of God. Some use science to bolster this stance, some use philosophy some justr sinply reason it out. To claim that atheists have faith in science betrays a very deep ignorance on your part.

Logicboy03:


Davidylan is a brainwashed tool....atheism is a stance on the existence of God. Some use science to bolster this stance, some use philosophy some justr sinply reason it out. To claim that atheists have faith in science betrays a very deep ignorance on your part.

You can spin it however you want. You really havent said anything radically new... what you have said in a sense is this - christians believe in God, atheists dont. Rather some believe in science, some believe in philosophy and some choose to anchor their faith on the amorphous nonsense called humanist reasoning.

What did you want to tell us?

davidylan:

For starters, why dont you give them since you claim to be a christian too?

1. To say that atheism is not a faith is evidence you dont understand what the issue truly is. Faith is not merely when you claim allegiance to a pixie in the sky... infact one definition of "faith" says it this way - Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Atheists show complete confidence in one thing - the validity of science and its ability to explain away anything that has the remotest sniff of "divine intelligence". If that isnt faith then i dont know what is.

As an aside, atheists arent asking for a reason to believe as much as they are trying too hard to justify their own decision to NOT believe. Aside from walking them right down to God's bedroom... they are not interested in anything else.

2. lol so only people who have a holy book can lay claim to a faith? Bro pls move on to less serious threads... this is not for jokers.

And do you realize that Science has a capacity to be self-correcting and theories are only valid till the emergence of a superior argument? Science is not afraid to say I'm wrong.

Sir, this is not about arguing to win. I have come to realize that people get unduly sentimental when issues bordering on religion and ethnicity are being debated.

davidylan:

You can spin it however you want. You really havent said anything radically new... what you have said in a sense is this - christians believe in God, atheists dont. Rather some believe in science, some believe in philosophy and some choose to anchor their faith on the amorphous nonsense called humanist reasoning.

What did you want to tell us?

Your seriously reetarded.


Science and philosophy (reason and logic) are knowledge tools used to explain our world. How can someone have faith in knowledge? Knowledge is based on evidence and faith is not.


Your original claim is that atheism is faith in science. You then added philosophy and reasoning when I mention that science is not necesary to be an atheist.



You have nothing. You are just a christian bigot that hates atheism

wiegraf:

(btw, I would have thought eternity would mean we were in hell even right now, as strictly speaking it implies no beginning or end, so this could make sense. But what about heaven?).

Good post but eternity does not strictly implies NO BEGINNING AND NO END.
You can experience eternity and still have a beginning.


consider the time you will need, starting now, to mention all the numbers 1,2,3,4,5,......
That is eternity with a beginning.

ezme:

And do you realize that Science has a capacity to be self-correcting and theories are only valid till the emergence of a superior argument? Science is not afraid to say I'm wrong.

Sir, this is not about arguing to win.

I have said this 10009 times, it seems to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. I have no problem with science... i only have an issue with those who have nothing to do with science except to use it as a figleaf for their own chronic inability to defend their humanist positions.
Science, the way it is used here, is no more than a copy/paste job.

Yes science has a capacity to be self-correcting... but i have found out that those who push the idea that science has an answer to the God question are mostly quacks. Serious scientists are too busy searching for answers to real questions.

Logicboy03:


Your seriously reetarded.


Science and philosophy (reason and logic) are knowledge tools used to explain our world. How can someone have faith in knowledge? Knowledge is based on evidence and faith is not.


Your original claim is that atheism is faith in science. You then added philosophy and reasoning when I mention that science is not necesary to be an atheist.



You have nothing. You are just a christian bigot that hates atheism

when you do eventually grow up pls let us know.

davidylan:

when you do eventually grow up pls let us know.

When you stop making reetarded and bigoted claims, let me know.

davidylan:

For starters, why dont you give them since you claim to be a christian too?

1. To say that atheism is not a faith is evidence you dont understand what the issue truly is. Faith is not merely when you claim allegiance to a pixie in the sky... infact one definition of "faith" says it this way - Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Atheists show complete confidence in one thing - the validity of science and its ability to explain away anything that has the remotest sniff of "divine intelligence". If that isnt faith then i dont know what is.

As an aside, atheists arent asking for a reason to believe as much as they are trying too hard to justify their own decision to NOT believe. Aside from walking them right down to God's bedroom... they are not interested in anything else.

2. lol so only people who have a holy book can lay claim to a faith? Bro pls move on to less serious threads... this is not for jokers.

I'm a Christian, but I'm not a hypocrite(most of us are), we can both agree that proof requires evidence and I don't have one. I only believe because I believed it all my life.

ezme:

I'm a Christian, but I'm not a hypocrite(most of us are), we can both agree that proof requires evidence and I don't have one. I only believe because I believed it all my life.

Of course you are not a hypocrite... you just happen to be quite confused.

If you are truly a christian then you have all the proof you need in the bible and in your heart. Being a christian these days has become nothing more than a social badge of acceptance. Little wonder the atheists laugh at us so much.

If you only believe "because you believed all your life" then you truly should consider making a choice. Obviously you have zero idea what christianity is all about. you should be bold enough to take the plunge to atheism...

davidylan:

Of course you are not a hypocrite... you just happen to be quite confused.

If you are truly a christian then[b] you have all the proof you need in the bible and in your heart[/b]. Being a christian these days has become nothing more than a social badge of acceptance. Little wonder the atheists laugh at us so much.

If you only believe "because you believed all your life" then you truly should consider making a choice. Obviously you have zero idea what christianity is all about. you should be bold enough to take the plunge to atheism...

yeah, just as the muslims and the hindus have all the evidence in the koran and the verders. . .Interesting. . .

davidylan:

tomorrow this one too will show up demanding "respect".

I will?

davidylan:
I dont criticize the scientific method, i only sneer at non-scientists who try to use the great work that others have done as a figleaf for their own personal choices. It is ok not to believe in God... to pretend that somehow your choice is based on a rational assessment and understanding of the scientific process is a complete joke. Like i will always say, science is not about copy-pasting articles from the web.

Fixing more of your nonsense

me:
It is ok to believe in God... to pretend that somehow your choice is based on a rational assessment and understanding of the scientific process is a complete joke.

So, great scientist, after examining the available data you believe the earth was formed 6000 years ago? You're supposedly the expert on the scientific method I hear, so please share some of your wisdom with us.

I keep asking you to tell me what you're working on...

davidylan:
That in itself is confirmation that you do not understand the scientific process... see in all my experience, i've never seen scientists who just shouted "wrong" without providing alternate evidence... a thing that you seriously lack.

Again, you call others disingenuous? Really. Let's take one of the biggest heavy weights as far as science goes

http://mathpages.com/rr/s3-08/3-08.htm

"The stubborn, aloof, and uncooperative aspect of Einstein's personality that he had shown as a student continued to some extent throughout his life. For example, in 1937 he collaborated with Nathan Rosen on a paper purporting to show, contrary to his own prediction of 1916, that gravitational waves cannot exist - at least not without unphysical singularities. He submitted this paper to Physical Review, and it was returned to him with a lengthy and somewhat critical referee report asking for clarifications. Apparently Einstein was unfamiliar with the refereeing of papers, routinely practiced by American academic journals. He wrote back to the editor"

So even einstein is corrected without being given an alternative answer?

Wait, why do I even have to dig up this article? Can you grasp how inane you sound? So if I told you flying spaghetti was first cause you'd need an alternate theory first before you could prove me wrong? Interesting.

davidylan:
I'll give you a hint, when we have to respond to a scientific theory that we disagree with... no one will take you serious if you just write "i disagree!" What is expected is that you CLEARLY explain what you disagree with and provide COMPELLING EVIDENCE why you think your ideas are correct. Errr where have you shown that you understand that process?

And more silly nonsense. You're doing this on purpose, I hope. Let me fix it again

me:
I'll give you a hint, when we have to respond to a scientific theory that we disagree with... no one will take you serious if you just write "i disagree!" What is expected is that you CLEARLY explain what you disagree with and provide COMPELLING EVIDENCE why you think HIS ideas are WRONG. Errr where have you shown that you understand that process?

Very.damned.simple
I do NOT have to provide an alternative theory. All I need do is show you how you are wrong. Again, numbers don't add up, then you are wrong. This is as simple as it gets. You understand the process now?

davidylan:
The atheist is only open to anything... as long as it has nothing to do with God. You claim that the atheist is open to "objective and valid" theories... bogus nonsense. If that is the case then why is the atheist wasting his time crowing about evolution theories he cannot explain?

Evolution, cannot explain, where? What sort of scientist are you? We do not know some details accurately enough. Abiogenesis is perhaps even murkier. I'm cool with that, it means we need to go out and investigate. That's science 101, no? Science 101 should have also taught you that looking for answers to that in a fantasy book like say the adventures of peter pan or pocahontas is as stoopid and illogical as it gets, no?

davidylan:
Word salad alert.

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

davidylan:

Of course you are not a hypocrite... you just happen to be quite confused.

If you are truly a christian then you have all the proof you need in the bible and in your heart. Being a christian these days has become nothing more than a social badge of acceptance. Little wonder the atheists laugh at us so much.

If you only believe "because you believed all your life" then you truly should consider making a choice. Obviously you have zero idea what christianity is all about. you should be bold enough to take the plunge to atheism...

I used to say all you have said to people in the past feeling all saved and like I know better. We were promised in the bible that we would perform greater signs and wonders than Jesus did and fastrack to 2013 and see for yourself what signs and wonders have been reduced to:

Testimonies
1. I passed my JAMB with flying colours.
2. I just got a promotion in the office.
3. The MOG prayed with me and I had a successful appendix operation
4. I prayed for a new car and we were given car loan at the office.

Are there not rational explanations for all these?

wiegraf:

I will?



Fixing more of your nonsense


So, great scientist, after examining the available data you believe the earth was formed 6000 years ago? You're supposedly the expert on the scientific method I hear, so please share some of your wisdom with us.

I keep asking you to tell me what you're working on...




Again, you call others disingenuous? Really. Let's take one of the biggest heavy weights as far as science goes

http://mathpages.com/rr/s3-08/3-08.htm

"The stubborn, aloof, and uncooperative aspect of Einstein's personality that he had shown as a student continued to some extent throughout his life. For example, in 1937 he collaborated with Nathan Rosen on a paper purporting to show, contrary to his own prediction of 1916, that gravitational waves cannot exist - at least not without unphysical singularities. He submitted this paper to Physical Review, and it was returned to him with a lengthy and somewhat critical referee report asking for clarifications. Apparently Einstein was unfamiliar with the refereeing of papers, routinely practiced by American academic journals. He wrote back to the editor"

So even einstein is corrected without being given an alternative answer?

Wait, why do I even have to dig up this article? Can you grasp how inane you sound? So if I told you flying spaghetti was first cause you'd need an alternate theory first before you could prove me wrong? Interesting.



And more silly nonsense. You're doing this on purpose, I hope. Let me fix it again



Very.damned.simple
I do NOT have to provide an alternative theory. All I need do is show you how you are wrong. Again, numbers don't add up, then you are wrong. This is as simple as it gets. You understand the process now?



Evolution, cannot explain, where? What sort of scientist are you? We do not know some details accurately enough. Abiogenesis is perhaps even murkier. I'm cool with that, it means we need to go out and investigate. That's science 101, no? Science 101 should have also taught you that looking for answers to that in a fantasy book like say the adventures of peter pan or pocahontas is as stoopid and illogical as it gets, no?



Do you have reading comprehension problems?

this dude and logicboy are similar in nature. So much noise to hide a lot of fluff.