wiegraf:
Again, you call others disingenuous? Really. Let's take one of the biggest heavy weights as far as science goes

http://mathpages.com/rr/s3-08/3-08.htm

"The stubborn, aloof, and uncooperative aspect of Einstein's personality that he had shown as a student continued to some extent throughout his life. For example, in 1937 he collaborated with Nathan Rosen on a paper purporting to show, contrary to his own prediction of 1916, that gravitational waves cannot exist - at least not without unphysical singularities. He submitted this paper to Physical Review, and [size=18pt]it was returned to him with a lengthy and somewhat critical referee report asking for clarifications[/size]. Apparently Einstein was unfamiliar with the refereeing of papers, routinely practiced by American academic journals. He wrote back to the editor"

So even einstein is corrected without being given an alternative answer?

Not true... but of course to correct you is to waste precious time i could be using fixing dinner but let me get to this one.

Look at the section i enlarged... it says his paper was returned with a LENGTHY CRITICAL REVIEW... do you even understand what a critique is? A detailed analysis and assessment of something, esp. a literary, philosophical, or political theory.

You would agree with me that a DETAILED ANALYSIS would also include reasons as to why the critic feels the theory he is assessing is wrong no? But of course i would be over-estimating your intelligence.

ezme:

I used to say all you have said to people in the past feeling all saved and like I know better. We were promised in the bible that we would perform greater signs and wonders than Jesus did and fastrack to 2013 and see for yourself what signs and wonders have been reduced to:

Testimonies
1. I passed my JAMB with flying colours.
2. I just got a promotion in the office.
3. The MOG prayed with me and I had a successful appendix operation
4. I prayed for a new car and we were given car loan at the office.

Are there not rational explanations for all these?

You obviously know nothing about christianity.

davidylan:

You obviously know nothing about christianity.

Lol, coming from a sinner saved by grace....

The error of mistaking a 'creator' for a 'god'..

All gods claim to be creators.... If I accept there's a creator, why should I accept your god?

Has knowledge of any of the millions of holy books that exist ever been a prerequisite to becoming a scientist?
So where does this foolish idea spring from that science books should lead to believe in God? God's hiding in science books and shows himself in religious ones? Or he hides in both?


As lb has stated earlier, one doesn't need to be a nerd or scientist to lose 'faith' in any of the gods... All one needs to do is compare religions and gods... The correlation between most of them should lead to a disbelief... Faith in any of them will lead to a belief...

musKeeto:
Lol, coming from a sinner saved by grace....

The error of mistaking a 'creator' for a 'god'..

All gods claim to be creators.... If I accept there's a creator, why should I accept your god?

Has knowledge of any of the millions of holy books that exist ever been a prerequisite to becoming a scientist?

As lb has stated earlier, one doesn't need to be a nerd or scientist to lose 'faith' in any of the gods...

the irony is that no one has asked you to accept my God. Feel free to keep it trucking... you're the one constantly hovering around here for goodness knows what. Left to me i couldnt be bothered.

davidylan:

the irony is that no one has asked you to accept my God. Feel free to keep it trucking... you're the one constantly hovering around here for goodness knows what. Left to me i couldnt be bothered.

Don't be bothered. I hear I make Christians that try to assert 'God' on a non-biblical basis look like iddiiotts...

Maybe I just did. I'm not bothered though.

musKeeto:
Don't be bothered. I hear I make Christians that try to assert 'God' on a non-biblical basis look like iddiiotts...

Maybe I just did. I'm not bothered though.

Yeah you truly arent bothered. What a joke.

davidylan:

Yeah you truly arent bothered. What a joke.

David, david, david.. You seem stumped. Where's the vitriol you usually have reserved for folks of my ilk? Could it be that ........?

musKeeto:
David, david, david.. You seem stumped. Where's the vitriol you usually have reserved for folks of my ilk? Could it be that ........?

I think you mistake choosing not to engage in meaningless brickbats with the unimportant as "being stumped". I suppose you do have an over-inflated opinion of your own importance afterall.

I hang around on my free time expecting some meaningful debate and all i get is you? Such a shame.

davidylan:

I think you mistake choosing not to engage in meaningless brickbats with the unimportant as "being stumped". I suppose you do have an over-inflated opinion of your own importance afterall.

I hang around on my free time expecting some meaningful debate and all i get is you? Such a shame.

Maybe I should switch that for the wonderful opinion you have about me....

davidylan:

Not true... but of course to correct you is to waste precious time i could be using fixing dinner but let me get to this one.

Look at the section i enlarged... it says his paper was returned with a LENGTHY CRITICAL REVIEW... do you even understand what a critique is? A detailed analysis and assessment of something, esp. a literary, philosophical, or political theory.

You would agree with me that a DETAILED ANALYSIS would also include reasons as to why the critic feels the theory he is assessing is wrong no? But of course i would be over-estimating your intelligence.

Hmm, david, my inexplicable scientist, when did the bolded translate to an alternate theory? In what language of stoopid, if you will? I'll be here all day, please show me the intelligence you've deluded yourself into thinking you possess.

As for the other post, last I checked lb was well known for one liners while I'm known for being a verbose blow hard. Yet you now claim our styles are similar. Of course you also call others disingenuous. You can't address the issues? Then it's best to shut up. Stoopidity can't be masked, you will get found out eventually. I would suggest you stop trying to do so with silly antics

davidylan:

You obviously know nothing about christianity.

Enlighten me then, that would be one more saved soul. Dear davidylan, why do you believe?

mazaje:

Its simple. . .You can not multiple a 4 digit number with a an eight digit number and arrive at a two digit number as your answer. . .

Good....this shows that for you to legitimately reject something, you must at least know a bit about how it works. Even if you don't have full details of the thing in question, you must know enough to be able to show that the thing is logically incoherent or else you won't have any grounds for rejecting it.(bear this in mind)

Beauty is something that can be seen and is self evident even though it is subjective and differs from culture or society to society. . .God on the other hand is NOT self evident the way beauty is. . .No god can be shown to exist on its own independent of human stories, culture and societal acceptance. . .Pls describe your good to me. . .How does he look like since the men that allegedly serve as his mouth piece(since he can speak for himself) claim that he is in the image of man. What does he look like?. . .What form does he have? Is he muscular. fat, skinny? If he appears to me(many claim he appears to them) how can I know its him and not another man?. . .Give me his description. . .How does his voice sound like(many people claim he speaks to them) so that if I hear it I can know that it is him speaking. . .What language those he speak?. . .Since he exist outside time and space, what medium or how does he interact with men that live within time and space. . .

Lol really? describe a beautiful lady for me and tell me why your version of beauty is more valid than mine or that of anyone else.

I repeat, the passage and evidence that bacteria was created by your god can be found in which passage and chapter of the bible?

John 1:3 ALL THINGS were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. (KJV)

Now please answer my question:

Would you consider it evidence for intelligent design that the code that defines the bacteria on your keyboard is by far much more complex and advanced than the code that defines the operating system of your computer? If yes then we move on, if no why not?

^^^^ Looking back upon my post, I can almost bet that mazaje in all his irrationality will soon come in and try to tell us that ALL THINGS does not include bacteria. lolol

mazaje:

The FACT is that god is a man MADE IDEA that was created by MEN that is why we have man different gods and religions. . .I might not know what 1000*34527272 is but I definitely know that it is not 10. . .If you tell me that 1000*34527272 is 10 then be prepared to show me how you arrived at the answer, claiming that I do not know either is dubious and ridiculous because you are the one making the claim. . .I repeat one thing we KNOW for a FACT is that the god idea is man made and all religions were created by men out of their various superstitions. . .That actually has nothing to do with DNA or how men came about in the reality. . .How humans came about remains UNKNOWN(That is the FACT). . .If you claim to know then provide evidence for it. . .Saying that your own version of god(out of many others) did is remains a LIE unless if you can substantiate it. . .If you can substantiate it then why are you making the claim in the first place?. . .Claiming that you know it by faith because some men that lived thousands of years ago, men who believed that humans beings reason with their hearts said so remains ridiculous and stupidddd. . .Provide the evidence or stop making the claim. . .

AN HONEST ATHEIST.

davidylan:

I think you mistake choosing not to engage in meaningless brickbats with the unimportant as "being stumped". I suppose you do have an over-inflated opinion of your own importance afterall.

I hang around on my free time expecting some meaningful debate and all i get is you? Such a shame.

Mr_Anony:
Good....this shows that for you to legitimately reject something, you must at least know a bit about how it works. Even if you don't have full details of the thing in question, you must know enough to be able to show that the thing is logically incoherent or else you won't have any grounds for rejecting it.(bear this in mind)

I reject your god idea, because it is man made and exist ONLY in stories, beliefs that men hold and share and their cultural and societal influence and acceptance. . .You god does NOT exist on its own as such you can NOT show or prove its existence. . .I reject your god because it is a man made idea. .

Lol really? describe a beautiful lady for me and tell me why your version of beauty is more valid than mine or that of anyone else.

I asked you a simple question and you are coming up with this drivel?. . .You once claimed that god spoke to you on another thread, can you explain to me how his voice sounds so that I can know its him when I hear it. . .What exactly is your god. . .How can I know its him when I come in contact with him? Pls describe your god to me. . .So that when I come in contact with it I will know it is your god. . .I have come in contact with some gods and can describe them for you. . .Pls describe yours for me. . .Thanks

John 1:3 ALL THINGS were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. (KJV)

All things were made by Allah and with out Allah there is NOTHING that was not made. . .All things were made by Anu and without Anu there is nothing that was ever made. . .Allah created everything. . The koran says yo and its true. . .Your bible is LYING. . Allah created everything. . .Can you you see how senseless what you are saying sounds. . .Some unknown man said his tribal deity created everything, claims so many others have made and some how you want me to accept one mythical claim over another?. . . .Xenu created everything. . .Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence you are making extra ordinary claims and providing mythical writings as evidence. . .As long as you keep doing that then be prepared to be mocked and ridiculed. . .

Now please answer my question:

Would you consider it evidence for intelligent design that the code that defines the bacteria on your keyboard is by far much more complex and advanced than the code that defines the operating system of your computer? If yes then we move on, if no why not?

Where does the word bacteria or key board appear in the bible?. . .

mazaje:

I reject your god idea, because it is man made and exist ONLY in stories, beliefs that men hold and share and their cultural and societal influenced and acceptance. . .You god does NOT exist on its own as such you can NOT show or prove its existence. . .

For the same reasons I reject your idea of beauty.

I asked you a simple question and you are coming up with this drivel?. . .

I equally asked you a simple question too.

All things were made by Allah and with out Allah there is NOTHING that was not made. . .All things were made by Anu and without Anu there is nothing that was ever made. . .Allah created everything. . The koran says yo and its true. . .Your bible is LYING. . Allah created everything. . .Can you you see how senseless what you are saying sounds. . .Some unknown man said his tribal deity created everything, claims so many others have made and some how you want me to accept one mythical claim over another?. . . .Xenu created everything. . .Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence you are making extra ordinary claims and providing mythical writings as evidence. . .As long as you keep doing that then be prepared to be mocked and ridiculed. . .

That many people claim the same thing is not proof of a lie. Objective evidence is needed. I have asked you a question to help us move towards that but you are more happy to argue irrelevant red herrings good for you.

Where does the word bacteria or key board appear in the bible?. . .

Lol....I predicted this. What part of ALL THINGS don't you understand? How irrational of you.

Whenever you are ready to engage your thinking faculties, then please do well to answer my question. Until then.....

Mr_Anony: ^^^^ Looking back upon my post, I can almost bet that mazaje in all his irrationality will soon come in and try to tell us that ALL THINGS does not include bacteria. lolol

Odunu and Bolkasa gods came together and created all things with with their breath that is made with, heavenly iron, fire and mud. . .

[quote author=mazaje]

I reject your god idea, because it is man made and exist ONLY in stories, beliefs that men hold and share and their cultural and societal influence and acceptance. . .You god does NOT exist on its own as such you can NOT show or prove its existence. . .I reject your god because it is a man made idea. .

We reject your myths , because they are groundless theories based on science fiction.

Mr_Anony:
For the same reasons I reject your idea of beauty.

I never brought the idea of beauty, you did, so deal with it. . .I never made any mention of any beauty, so I really do not understand what you are talking about. . .

I equally asked you a simple question too.

LOL!

That many people claim the same thing is not proof of a lie. Objective evidence is needed. I have asked you a question to help us move towards that but you are more happy to argue irrelevant red herrings good for you.

Provide the objective evidence that your god alone created the universe and not some other gods that have made same claims through their own men, your objective evidence to show that Yahweh created the universe and NOT allah or Vishnu is WHAT?. . .Provide the objective evidence already. . .

Lol....I predicted this. How irrational of you.

Objective evidence is what I want , not endless back and forth that proves NOTHING. .

frosbel: We reject your myths , because they are groundless theories based on science fiction.

And which myth have I proposed?. . .

mazaje:

I never brought the idea of beauty, you did, so deal with it. . .I never made any mention of any beauty, so I really do not understand what you are talking about. . .




LOL!



Provide the objective evidence that your god alone created the universe and not some other gods that have made same claims through their own men, your objective evidence to show that Yahweh created the universe and NOT allah or Vishnu is WHAT?. . .Provide the objective evidence already. . .




Objective evidence is what I want , not endless back and forth that proves NOTHING. .

Good so you want objective evidence let us go through a process of question and answer:

Would you consider it evidence for intelligent design that the code that defines the bacteria on your keyboard is by far much more complex and advanced than the code that defines the operating system of your computer? If yes then we move on, if no why not?

Mr_Anony:
Good so you want objective evidence let us go through a process of question and answer:

Would you consider it evidence for intelligent design that the code that defines the bacteria on your keyboard is by far much more complex and advanced than the code that defines the operating system of your computer? If yes then we move on, if no why not?

I have moved passed this endless back and forth long time ago. . .If I agree that the bacteria on my key board is by far more complex and advanced than my computer processor how does that p[rove that your own version of god and not another version of god intelligently created the bacteria?. . .For example what if some one insists that allah created the bactaria and shows me corresponding verses in the book of allah(the koran) that allah created the bacteria. How do I know that your god created the bacteria and not allah?. . .

I just want you to provide SPECIFIC objective evidence that shows that your god alone created everything. . .In fact specific objective evidence that shows that your god exist in the first place is what I want. . .Please provide a factual description of your god’s characteristics and abilities so that we can be sure that we(atheists) will know it when we see it, hear its voice or come in contact with it. Try to be as specific as possible to avoid ambiguity. We need to be able to differentiate your god from other god's or other phenomena. So, for example, claiming that your god is love or the universe is all around is evidence for your god is not helpful in the least, because many have claimed that the universe all around us is evidence for their own god as well. . . Claiming that your god is supernatural or beyond the natural, observable universe is also not helpful. If your god is beyond the observable universe then how could you possibly have observed it to conclude that it is real? So again, please provide a factual description of your god’s specific characteristics and abilities that are objective that is self evident.

So please provide me with something objective that distinguishes your belief from imagination, because your belief and god is nothing but imaginations. . . Imagination is forming a mental image of something not present to the senses. Something imaginary exists only in imagination, it lacks factual reality. Subjective notions such as internal personal experiences or feelings are indistinguishable from imagination. If you can't turn to people next to you regardless of their religious beliefs and ask, “Did you see/hear/smell/feel that?” and expect them to say, “Yes we did and experienced it the same way you did” then whatever it is you experienced was likely imaginary. You need to provide something objective that we could all perceive to detect your god and verify that it is real. We need to distinguish objective reality from a subjective reality in which people believe things are as they want or imagine them to be rather than as they are. I am waiting. . .

Religious argument is really a waste of time. Discussion is meant for learning but that is not what I see here. If there is no intention of analyzing issues objectively from all paties involved, then threads like this should not exist.

2good: Religious argument is really a waste of time. Discussion is meant for learning but that is not what I see here. If there is no intention of analyzing issues objectively from all paties involved, then threads like this should not exist.

This is not a religious discussion, rather it is a friendly call to all atheists in the house to provide alternative theories to the 'myth' of creation.

What we instead see , is grown men who resort to insults when the deficiency of their knowledge is exposed , and hypocrisy at it's very best, for while those who reject religion accuse us of blind faith, they foolishly take an even deeper plunge into the abyss of uncertainty, doubt and wishful thinking.

To live without a valid and concrete reason , has to be one of the saddest things ever.

mazaje:

I have moved passed this endless back and forth long time ago. . .If I agree that the bacteria on my key board is by far more complex and advanced than my computer processor how does that p[rove that your own version of god and not another version of god intelligently created the bacteria?. . .For example what if some one insists that allah created the bactaria and shows me corresponding verses in the book of allah(the koran) that allah created the bacteria. How do I know that your god created the bacteria and not allah?. . .

I just want you to provide SPECIFIC objective evidence that shows that your god alone created everything. . .In fact specific objective evidence that shows that your god exist in the first place is what I want. . .Please provide a factual description of your god’s characteristics and abilities so that we can be sure that we(atheists) will know it when we see it, hear its voice or come in contact with it. Try to be as specific as possible to avoid ambiguity. We need to be able to differentiate your god from other god's or other phenomena. So, for example, claiming that your god is love or the universe is all around is evidence for your god is not helpful in the least, because many have claimed that the universe all around us is evidence for their own god as well. . . Claiming that your god is supernatural or beyond the natural, observable universe is also not helpful. If your god is beyond the observable universe then how could you possibly have observed it to conclude that it is real? So again, please provide a factual description of your god’s specific characteristics and abilities that are objective that is self evident.

So please provide me with something objective that distinguishes your belief from imagination, because your belief and god is nothing but imaginations. . . Imagination is forming a mental image of something not present to the senses. Something imaginary exists only in imagination, it lacks factual reality. Subjective notions such as internal personal experiences or feelings are indistinguishable from imagination. If you can't turn to people next to you regardless of their religious beliefs and ask, “Did you see/hear/smell/feel that?” and expect them to say, “Yes we did and experienced it the same way you did” then whatever it is you experienced was likely imaginary. You need to provide something objective that we could all perceive to detect your god and verify that it is real. We need to distinguish objective reality from a subjective reality in which people believe things are as they want or imagine them to be rather than as they are. I am waiting. . .

Such a long epistle and yet you haven't answered my question.

I didn't ask you whether you thought that bacteria is more advanced than your computer, what I asked is if that counts as evidence of intelligent design for you? If yes, we proceed. If no why not?

I cannot begin to throw evidence at you if I have no idea of what counts as evidence for you. So please answer my question.

Mr_Anony:
Such a long epistle and yet you haven't answered my question.

I didn't ask you whether you thought that bacteria is more advanced than your computer, what I asked is if that counts as evidence of intelligent design for you? If yes, we proceed. If no why not?

I cannot begin to throw evidence at you if I have no idea of what counts as evidence for you. So please answer my question.

I have given you EXACTLY what counts as evidence for me. . . . .I don't know if my computer is more intelligently designed or advanced than the bacteria. . .The computer is intelligently design for a purpose. . .What is the bacteria intelligently designed for?. . .

mazaje:

I have given you EXACTLY what counts as evidence for me. . . . .I don't know if my computer is more intelligently designed or advanced than the bacteria. . .The computer is intelligently design for a purpose. . .What is the bacteria intelligently designed for?. . .

you haven't still answered my question. do you at least agree that the 3 billion letter DNA that defines bacteria is more complex than the source code of your computer's operating system?

Mr_Anony:
you haven't still answered my question. do you at least agree that the 3 billion letter DNA that defines bacteria is more complex than the source code of your computer's operating system?

I am more interested in your objective evidence that Yahweh alone created the 3 billion DNA letter that defines the bacteria. . .The source code of my computer processor is written by a company called Intel, their signature logo is on it and video evidence of them creating the processor is available for all to see and know that they created it. . .If you can provide me an equal evidence to show that your own god alone created the bacteria then I will understand you know what you are talking about. . .As I said, I want objective evidence that your god alone created the bacteria so that if a muslim tells me that his allah created the bacteria, or if an evolutionist tells me that a bacteria evolved form non living things or came from another planet I will show him the objective evidence you have provided to me and also tell him that he is lying. . .Over to your. . .I am waiting for the objective evidence, I am tired of listening to philosophical ramblings. . .Objective evidence ONLY. . .

mazaje:

I am more interested in your objective evidence that Yahweh alone created the 3 billion DNA letter that defines the bacteria. . .The source code of my computer processor is written by a company called Intel, their signature logo is on it and video evidence of them creating the processor is available for all to see and know that they created it. . .If you can provide me an equal evidence to show that your own god alone created the bacteria then I will understand you know what you are talking about. . .As I said, I want objective evidence that your god alone created the bacteria so that if a muslim tells me that his allah created the bacteria, or if an evolutionist tells me that a bacteria evolved form non living things or came from another planet I will show him the objective evidence you have provided to me and also tell him that he is lying. . .Over to your. . .I am waiting for the objective evidence, I am tired of listening to philosophical ramblings. . .Objective evidence ONLY. . .

actually this article was not raised to ask us questions, it was for the purpose of you answering our questions. You can raise a similar article for Christians.

Thus far , your buddies have made a mess of it, maybe you can help.

Thanks.

frosbel:

actually this article was not raised to ask us questions, it was for the purpose of you answering our questions. You can raise a similar article for Christians.

Thus far , your buddies have made a mess of it, maybe you can help.

Thanks.

Firstly, atheism DOES NOT claim to know how life came about. . .Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods. . .Science and scientist(a lot of whom are theist) came about with their own natural claims and theories of how the earth, life and the entire universe came about. . .Science deals with evidence and is naturalistic by nature, as such they try to provide natural explanations and evidence for their theories. . .Atheism is not science, many atheist accept the scientific explanation because most atheist are naturalist. . .The scientific explanations are deficient as such when knew knowledge or evidence is obtained the theory is either modified or completely discarded. . Atheism DOES NOT project anything. . .It only says gods do not exist. . .It does not claim to know how humans or the universe came about.

I am an atheist as as far as I KNOW, NO body KNOWS how the universe came about. . . And that is the FACT. Every body is just SPECULATING. . .I am not making any claims and I have never made any in that regard. I don't know and I TRULY do NOT care. . If you claim to know how the universe came about then present your objective evidence to me to support your claims or be ready to be ridiculed and mocked when you come up with rubbish and nonsense. . .

[quote author=mazaje]

I am an atheist as as far as I KNOW, NO body KNOWS how the universe came about . . . And that is the FACT. Every body is just SPECULATING. . .I am not making any claims and I have never made any in that regard. I don't know and I TRULY do NOT care. . If you claim to know how the universe came about then present your objective evidence to me to support your claims or be ready to be ridiculed and mocked when you come up with rubbish and nonsense. . .

Well it's a rather bold, wild and arrogant claim to suggest that nobody knows because you do not know.

We don't care about being mocked, just make sure that when you mock others you have a solid foundation that cannot crumble under the onslaught of demands for proof that your position is tenable.

So far , atheists do not seem to have a harmonious stand on issues, some , funny enough , believe in an intelligent designer, some are evolutionists, others naturalists and many just like you , do not give a damn about our existence and future. What a bundle of confusion.

The common thing all atheists have is a hatred for GOD , the same one who sustains their ungrateful selves, just because he demands certain beautiful moral standards from them.