rhymz: Unless you are a believer of Lukan fairy tale, the account given of Mr Paul's conversion is laughable and defiles common sense. Paul was in the company of other soldiers when he was struck by this light, right? He alone heard a loud quaking voice and he alone had the uncommon priviledge of seeing the Christ whose followers he was going to prosecute, right? Very laughable. On whose authority was Paul going to haunt Christians in Damascus that was never under the jurisdiction of Rome and the high priest? If anything, Damascus was like a safe heaven for christians facing serious persecution in Rome. So whose authority was driving the fanatical nutjob to Damascus?

rhymz: Like seriously, you of all people believes that there actually existed a Paul that was a Jesus fellow Hunter until he him self was converted by Jesus. You believe that crap? Like seriously you do believe such a confused person realy existed?
Unless you have not taken time to study the so-called Pauline epistles to realize those actually are works of some unknown religious writer with very evident hellenistic influence. If you observe, the epistles are in total contrast with the so-called Canonical Gospels, they discuss mostly pagan concepts and philosophies. Whence come the concept of a dying God whose death and ressurection brings atonement of sin to followers. These concepts exist way before christianity started. That is mostly what the so-called epistles discussed. It obvious the writer did not intend for such theology and concept be used for some christ Jesus as it is apparent the writer did not know who the christian Jesus is or was. It is highly probable that the epistles were originally books of some other religious order or the writer deliberately produced those epistles to rival the jewish religious order through stealing their concepts and infusing their own prevailing religious concept at the time. Paul is just a pabrication like the Jesus character, all unproveable mythological hogwash.

Ortarico:
Dear fellow, #smh#. I can see how u pretend not knowing the existence & worship of the "illuminati", "baphomet" and the likes. I won't argue much on that.
Do you wanna tell me you don't believe or accept the existence & cruel works of witches and wizards?
C'mon, don't tell me you don't know they cast spell in pari pasu incantations? Don't you know that some of our countrymen still have juju/charms, magical amulets, wands etc for magic?
I disagree with the above. Go get videos on primitive activities of being. Science has been the worship of athiest you know. Prove to me it's as old as man!

ooman:

do you agree or disagree, get your facts straight

ooman:

do you agree or disagree, get your facts straight

kj_hova:

Well the historicity of the gospel & epistular characters have not been convincingly verified, yes. However, the notoriety of the books & the christian faith convince me that a historical Jesus, Paul, Luke etc did live in Judea at 1 point. Even neutral archeologists attest to this fact.
My conviction is that whatever bogus faith based stories that was eventually associated with these characters differ by miles to the reality of their lives.
I believe that if I ever met the real Jesus or even Buddah or Confusius, my respect & estimation of them will be better than how their religionists have attempted to sell them.
These blokes were probably nothing more than great social reformers who, unfortunately, came way before their time. I wager that if Gandhi had come to India around 1000BC, we'd have had a religion named Gandhism today with Babuji Mahatma as the god therein.

kj_hova:

Well the historicity of the gospel & epistular characters have not been convincingly verified, yes. However, the notoriety of the books & the christian faith convince me that a historical Jesus, Paul, Luke etc did live in Judea at 1 point. Even neutral archeologists attest to this fact.
My conviction is that whatever bogus faith based stories that was eventually associated with these characters differ by miles to the reality of their lives.
I believe that if I ever met the real Jesus or even Buddah or Confusius, my respect & estimation of them will be better than how their religionists have attempted to sell them.
These blokes were probably nothing more than great social reformers who, unfortunately, came way before their time. I wager that if Gandhi had come to India around 1000BC, we'd have had a religion named Gandhism today with Babuji Mahatma as the god therein.

kj_hova:

Hi pal, I will ignore the illuminati part of your comments as you & I know that no matter how many junk videos you have seen about it, it still amounts to hear say & not more.

As for the question of my awareness of people being involved in voodoo & other stuff like that, yes I do. Witches kill with their craft as much as pastors heal cancers miraculously! It's both ways bollocks!!

all4naija: No only that the Apocryphals are still not included in the Bible for reason they speak of the fairy tales as they are.

rhymz:

You obviously have not taken time to study the biblical history and how it came about to be popular.
While the masses are led to believe that the Christian religion was founded by a historical wonderworker and his devoted eyewitnesses who accurately wrote down the events of his life and ministry in marvelous books that became “God’s Word,” the reality is that none of the gospels was written by its purported author. Also, the New Testament text did not exist in any writing prior to the beginning of the second century of the Common Era (“CE”), long after the purported events. Should it not be a cause
for concern that the books that contain the purpoted life of christ surfaced almost a century after his death and were mostly written by anonymous authors that were not bold enough to use their names until the church fathers fictitiously decided ascribe the names of the so-called disciples of christ who were mostly illiterate peasants and farmers that could barely string words together decently.
I suppose you are smart enough to know that it would take literate scribes to write these books in greek in the way they appear and are arranged. Such writing skills could not have been from mere illiterate farmers, tax collectoctors, fishermen and such low-lifes that allegedly flocked around him as disciples.
It is only in these books that we find
the story of christ, how anyone will take such claims seriously and on the spot dismiss any suggestion or evidence that points to its invalidity as a reliable source material to prove Christ's historicity is beyond me.

Ortarico:
I'm not surprised! You're full of enthusiasm for picking shreds from antagonistic books. It won't help you!

Ortarico:
And you think this conviction of yours isn't self soothing? Bunkum!

Ortarico:
And you think this conviction of yours isn't self soothing? Bunkum!

Ortarico:
I see! So you're aware of the existence of voodooism but only to finalise it's of sorts with miracles? There's a great difference! You've chosen to ignore the truth but accept and attest anti-christianity.

Logicboy03: The op of this thread would be arrested if foolish threads were a crime.

I am an atheist not because of some reward but because it is a realistic stance. It is the same way I'm not looking for rewards when I chose not to believe in elves or goblins.

There is no single shred of evidence for God or gods. Religion is not necessary. There is nothing good that a religious person can do that a non religious person can not do.

rhymz:

You obviously have not taken time to study the biblical history and how it came about to be popular.
While the masses are led to believe that the Christian religion was founded by a historical wonderworker and his devoted eyewitnesses who accurately wrote down the events of his life and ministry in marvelous books that became “God’s Word,” the reality is that none of the gospels was written by its purported author. Also, the New Testament text did not exist in any writing prior to the beginning of the second century of the Common Era (“CE”), long after the purported events. Should it not be a cause
for concern that the books that contain the purpoted life of christ surfaced almost a century after his death and were mostly written by anonymous authors that were not bold enough to use their names until the church fathers fictitiously decided ascribe the names of the so-called disciples of christ who were mostly illiterate peasants and farmers that could barely string words together decently.
I suppose you are smart enough to know that it would take literate scribes to write these books in greek in the way they appear and are arranged. Such writing skills could not have been from mere illiterate farmers, tax collectoctors, fishermen and such low-lifes that allegedly flocked around him as disciples.
It is only in these books that we find
the story of christ, how anyone will take such claims seriously and on the spot dismiss any suggestion or evidence that points to its invalidity as a reliable source material to prove Christ's historicity is beyond me.

rhymz:

You obviously have not taken time to study the biblical history and how it came about to be popular.
While the masses are led to believe that the Christian religion was founded by a historical wonderworker and his devoted eyewitnesses who accurately wrote down the events of his life and ministry in marvelous books that became “God’s Word,” the reality is that none of the gospels was written by its purported author. Also, the New Testament text did not exist in any writing prior to the beginning of the second century of the Common Era (“CE”), long after the purported events. Should it not be a cause
for concern that the books that contain the purpoted life of christ surfaced almost a century after his death and were mostly written by anonymous authors that were not bold enough to use their names until the church fathers fictitiously decided ascribe the names of the so-called disciples of christ who were mostly illiterate peasants and farmers that could barely string words together decently.
I suppose you are smart enough to know that it would take literate scribes to write these books in greek in the way they appear and are arranged. Such writing skills could not have been from mere illiterate farmers, tax collectoctors, fishermen and such low-lifes that allegedly flocked around him as disciples.
It is only in these books that we find
the story of christ, how anyone will take such claims seriously and on the spot dismiss any suggestion or evidence that points to its invalidity as a reliable source material to prove Christ's historicity is beyond me.

rhymz: it is not about whether it is antagonistic or not, it is the substance of the evidence that is provided that matters.

striktlymi:

Good evening Ayo,

Are you a Christian because of the promise of heaven? Suppose there was no promise, would you have remained a Christian?

991:

I believe in MYSELF and nothing else, always do the right thing no matter what is written, do the best I can and face the future with pride.

ifeness:

After death you will get back to your senses. Right now,you are nothing but a brainwashed christian.

kj_hova:

Am not quite sure what side of the divide you are, my dear friend. But if you are atheist or of any other conviction close to it, we are on the same page.

As a student of History, I have come to learn that legends may originate from true stories. However, the reality of the legendary figure is almost always different from the fables created later on by adherents.

Now all this talk about "self soothing" & "bunkum", I'm truly lost to how such words help shed light on our discuss. I hope you understand the order of my thoughts now.

Ortarico:
1. The complexity of our planet point to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
2. The universe had a start-what caused it?
3. The universe operates by uniform laws of nature, why does it?
4. The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behaviour!
5. We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating & seeking for us to come to him.
6. Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us. Why Jesus?
Look throughout the major religions & you'll find out that Buddha, Muhammed, Confucius & Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them claimed to be equal to God!

kj_hova:

Apparently sire, my sarcasm is lost on you. What I meant was that if you believe your pastor could heal cancer just by praying, I will not be surprised if you also believe that a witch could kill with "voodoo". Hence my reference to both as bollocks.

I won't try to turn you from your belief system but please bear in mind that belief doesn't equate to fact. It just the order of your thoughts.

kj_hova:

Hey dude, although your narrative is a bit lenghty, I'd try to take them on with precision.

Let's suppose you are right in that our complex universe supports the claim for design, shall this argument not also support the existence of many gods beside yahweh, jehovah, allah or whichever deity you choose to conjour up? Their's no way we can tell if there was just 1 designer at work or a group of them, right?

Your items 2 to 4 are not much other than an expartiation of item 1 so we shall move on.

If we accept item 5, then we'd have little choice but to accept delusion or halucination as great spiritual encounters all the time. Kindly note that not all humans have the feeling that some gods are pursuing them.

Item 6 has absolutely nothing to do with atheism or agnosticism as I care less what any religious nut-head claims himself to be. He may declare himself a prophet, god or demon however he choose but it won't change the fact that it's just his opinion & nothing more.

Ortarico:
Smh...now my conclusion is "Athiests are the most miserable people on Earth!"
Wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is a brief attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists. But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God. On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he's there, he says, "You will seek me & find me, when you seek me with all your heart, I'll be found by you."

Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there; Before you look @ the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, if God does exist, would I want to know him? Consider.....
1. The complexity of our planet point to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
2. The universe had a start-what caused it?
3. The universe operates by uniform laws of nature, why does it?
4. The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behaviour!
5. We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating & seeking for us to come to him.
6. Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us. Why Jesus?
Look throughout the major religions & you'll find out that Buddha, Muhammed, Confucius & Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them claimed to be equal to God!

Ayomivic:


yes, atheists will get to their senses after death by that time it will be too late for them to make amendment.

Ortarico:
Fellow, you better don't wait for doomsday before you concur or shake hands on the existence of God! There's only one God (JEHOVAH) and one mediator (JESUS).
It's just okay for bypassing item 2-4. And answered 5 vaguely. 6 is supposed to pose a challenge/thought to you of the immaculation of the true God-sent son (Jesus).
Anyways, I've tried to put you in the right path of worship and focus....don't say you didn't hear, for you shall surely give an account!
God be praised!!

Ortarico:
Fellow, you better don't wait for doomsday before you concur or shake hands on the existence of God! There's only one God (JEHOVAH) and one mediator (JESUS).
It's just okay for bypassing item 2-4. And answered 5 vaguely. 6 is supposed to pose a challenge/thought to you of the immaculation of the true God-sent son (Jesus).
Anyways, I've tried to put you in the right path of worship and focus....don't say you didn't hear, for you shall surely give an account!
God be praised!!

manmustwac: Thee fact that Nigeria is a very corrupt country where our Politicians loot as if there is no tomorrow our Police take bribes and kill with impunity, our church leaders are only interested in fleecing their flocks instead of thinking of how to move the country forward is more than enough proof thatgod don't exist.

Ortarico:
So, do you think that has helped you enough? God slowing collective punishment does not mean judgement/justice has not been passed. I don't think you know that nemesis has begun to catch up with these looting politicians even with their current & unborn generation. He is slow to justice because he wants to give them a chance for repentance and restitution or else they will likewise perish. God is there watching us all!

kj_hova:

I'm happy for you mate as you are "heaven" bound. Sadly, this whole "ojuju calabar" hell fire fear mongering doesn't scare everyone. Not all humans are kid enough to believe in an "all loving" creator god who created his own arch enemy which he had to grapple with in mortal combat for ages, let's his own "son" be murdered by his creatures to conjour up a win only to ultimately toss supposedly "erring" creatures in a fiery fireplace forever. We might as well believe in ogres, wiccands, leprecauns and all.

Like the @op said originally, is your religiosity an attempt to escape god's tuture or that u love him or her irrespective?