maclatunji: The website quoted by Jammyng is a fraud. Not an Islamic website.

Are the scriptures contained therein also fraudulent?!

Okija_juju:

Are the scriptures contained therein also fraudulent?!

maclatunji: The website quoted by Jammyng is a fraud. Not an Islamic website.

Okija_juju: Again!! This one is from a 'Muslim friendly' website..

The fact remains that the Quoran has opened up an avenue where it becomes alright for a man to physically and emotionally abuse his wife if she is indolent.. How a Muslim man chooses to interprete indolence is subject to interpretation by him.

Once there is an opening where it is alright to do such, the control is out of your hands. If prophet Mohammad (SAW) could hit his wife for stepping out without his permission, what then is the fate of a woman who raises her voice to her husband.

Now you need extra literature outside of the Quoran to explain what he means.. Sadly, thats not good enough because the damage has already been done and set in place for future generations of muslim men.!


DEFEND THAT!

Paris-Love:
Another lie to fool the gullible and ignorant folks.

[b]BBC Panorama has uncovered fresh evidence of how some Sharia councils in Britain may be putting Muslim women "at risk" by pressuring them to stay in abusive marriages...

We had seen the public face of Leyton Sharia Council, but we sent an undercover reporter to see what advice they would give a vulnerable female client. Her story was that her husband was hitting her...

He went on to tell her that reporting the abuse to the police would be a final blow and she would have to leave the house and go to a refuge. He said that was a very "bad option".

His wife, a counsellor at Leyton Islamic Sharia Council, also told the undercover reporter not to go to the police but to involve the family instead.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22044724

maclatunji:

I will now quote your source verbatim, it explains itself.

Does (Islam) allow wife beating?

Some ‘Muslim’ men think that their religion supports them in abusing women. Not only by beating them, also by denying them equal rights at best, giving them little to no rights at all far too often.

Sincere students of the Quran know that this does not in any way represent the system God has decreed for His worshippers. Just as everything is open for abuse, the verse decreed to actually protect women against the violent tendencies in men has also been abused. Submission (Islam) prohibits all forms of oppression, including spousal abuse.

The verse:

4:34 In the Quran states: The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

At first glance people may interpret this verse as saying:

Women have to obey their husbands blindly.
Men can beat women if they don’t do what they want them to.
Women have to stay at home.

Scrutinizing those interpretations on the basis of the whole Quran quickly generates an entirely different picture. We see instead that God prohibits wife beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this verse is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this section must be in favor of the women. This verses theme is "protection of women.

Does a woman have to obey her husband blindly?

The Quran teaches us that a woman has every right to disobey a man if his orders are not righteous. A man can only be righteous if his orders are in accordance with the Quran and in consideration of ALL of God’s laws, not only the ones he likes.

One of the laws in the Quran decrees that the believers shall decide their affairs on the basis of due consultation among themselves. Without the woman in this equation, there is no due consultation. Thus, it is a duty upon the righteous man to consult his wife before making important decisions.

Ultimately it is not the voice of the man that weighs heavier in the relationship of a couple that has decided to abide by God’s laws, it is the word of God. Thus, regardless of how highly a man regards himself or his opinions, God gives him no right to make decisions that opposes His commands. Thus, a righteous man will heed a reminder from the wife based on righteous expectations. Thus, a woman should learn the scripture to be able to give her husband those reminders. She should also carefully examine the belief of a man before choosing him as a husband to make sure he respects the rights God has granted her.

Another law in the Quran commands us to treat each other in the best possible way. We are also told that love and care are two essential ingredients of a healthy marriage.
Must someone be in charge?

It is a fact of life that for people to be able to function well together they need to agree on whom should be in charge. We accept this arrangement in all other aspects of our lives, such as when we choose government, when we are employed, and so on, and so on.

We do not feel oppressed for example, because we have to submit ourselves to a legal system that demands of us that we behave a certain way or else holds us responsible. We understand the logic and need for such a system and generally don’t mind following it because we want others to follow it as well, that we may feel safe where we are. Why should it be any different in a marriage situation, which in itself is an institution that must have certain rules and laws.

The order that God decreed for decision making in the family is this; children are obligated to obey their parents, unless they advice them to worship other than God. The parents are together responsible for making balanced decisions for the whole family. When no agreement can be reached between the husband and the wife on what course of action to take, one must have the heavier vote. This is simple logic. The only other option is if someone else decides for your family.

The Quran teaches us that God gave man the final word in the family. Again, this must be after due consultation, without abusing his right, considering what is in the best interest and most fair for all. This is a huge responsibility to carry, especially considering the seriousness by which God regards oppression. He says oppression is worse than murder.

Does a Muslim husband have the right to beat his wife to get her to do what he wants?

Absolutely not! The whole point of the verse is to protect the women in situations where men would tend to resort to violence, when tempted to take advantage of their physical strength over women. Such situations would be for example when a wife has angered her husband by behaving in a way that jeopardizes the safety or the integrity of the family.

A man can never be justified in using his strength to subdue a wife into behaving to his personal liking. The wife has the right to be an individual, with her own personal interests, career, or what have you, just as her husband. Nor can he use this option to subdue his wife into practicing the religion, since there must be no compulsion in religion.

So why does the Quran even mention beating of the wife?

What the verse does, is give a Righteous man Specific commands when dealing with a wife who is behaving in an unrighteous way, posing a threat to the safety of herself or the family. The verse is there to help him restrain his violent tendencies in tense situations by giving him strict guidelines to go by. It is a well-known fact that tendencies towards violence are generally much stronger in men than in women.

Thus, regardless of how upset a husband is about the behavior of his wife, he is not permitted to do anything else but talk to her properly first. If she ignores him and continues to commit the same transgression, he may as a second alternative stop being intimate with her as a means to persuade her. Only as a third and final option, if she insists on maintaining the behavior, he has the right to physically try to correct her.

Is becoming physical ever justified?

In our society we feel that the police is justified in sometimes grabbing hold of people, and restraining them from continuing to pose a threat to themselves and others, until they realize their wrongdoing and promise to change. We see the logic in this, and fully support this action. In a marriage, God made the husband the first point of correction for a wife behaving in a way correlating to that level of misbehavior.

http://www.askmuslims.com/2008/01/does-islam-allow-wife-beating.html

I don't need to defend it, it defends itself.

Okija_juju:

Funny Story bro!!

The author danced and danced and danced and still ended up in the market square where we started which is the A MUSLIM MAN CAN BEAT HIS WIFE under certain circumstances which are not clearly stated but subject to the mans interpretation!

Thats all (like my NSCDC friends will say). That door for physical abuse is still wide open and will be exploited by many muslims for as long as it remains in the Quoran.

maclatunji:

I laugh in Chinese. The rules are clear, if someone does not follow them, that is another matter.

This for example is a very detailed explanation on the matter http://mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/abuseverse.htm

The same Panorama programme exposes people not meeting up to set standards from different areas of life every week. What is the point? To expose and correct people not to attack the rules.

Insight is something you seemingly lack.

Okija_juju:

[b]Funny Story bro!!

The author danced and danced and danced and still ended up in the market square where we started which is that A MUSLIM MAN CAN BEAT HIS WIFE under certain circumstances which are not clearly stated but subject to the mans interpretation!

Thats all (like my NSCDC friends will say). That door for physical abuse is still wide open and will be exploited by many muslims for as long as it remains in the Quoran.

If the Quoran had said you can beat your wife if she doesnt greet you in the morning, it would be straight forward and easy to understand, but the Quoran talks about 'Rebellion'.. WTF is rebellion? Here is an example;

A Muslim Man returns from work with his wife and asks for food, shes too tired and rebuffs him.. Thats rebellion.

A Muslim Man wants s`ex, and shes not in the mood and rebuffs him, Thats rebellion.

A muslim man says his daughters shouldnt be educated, his wife says otherwise, thats rebellion.


The author really did try his best to defend that scripture but still fell flat. He (the author) is not an authority in Islam, the Quoran is, and thats what matters not this flimsy write up![/b]

usermane:
To be honest,'BEATING' here is a relative term. To some, beating is equal to flogging, to others its a slap. But there are those who nvr resort to beating and would rather Divorce or Separate in the worst case scenerio.
Remember that a misbehaving wife has to first be admonished. If she doesnt amend then hubby could refuse her food,if she persist, he should stay out of bed from her. And eventually beating is only legal if the above measures have been employed in correcting her. But for the sake of truth and justice, beating here ought to be mild, not use of severe high impact force capable of yielding a stinging or burning sensation.
These just show how considerate Islam is. It is a simple religion but on an individual level, adherents can make it difficult for themselves if care isnt taken. Some muslims even batter their wives, pathetic isn't it?
Take Polygamy as a case, it is permitted for some of its merits but many muslim chose Monogamy. I mean how many men would chose d burden of multiple wives and how many wives relish the idea of a future co-wife. So also, is the issue of beating, Jack.

kandiikane:

Erm, if the woman CAN beat the man, can she beat him if she tries all you wrote?

maclatunji:

Simple logic, she is likely to come-up worse if she strikes first. Equity my dear not equality. If the rule were to allow women to do the same as men, many would try it and come-out worse off. Islam is a pratical religion for all people. It embraces every type of scenario you can think of and comes out with a position that you can all work with. The blissful marriage obviously does not have this injunction applying to them. It is the gravely-ill ones that it applies to. What does it say? Man, control your anger and only tap her lightly instead of for example slapping or punching her.

superior1:

Huhh.., sorry, i would have preferred not tapping atol so there wont be room for over-tapping.

tinnymerit: what of those women that are not allow to drive cars in saudi arabia,is that a form of feminine oppression?.just asking dont dare delete the post o,its a question ooooo.

maclatunji:

Not realistic. We are not talking about a single person here. We are talking of guiding billions of people over millennia. The idea is that very few people will have to use that option. There are so many hadith about the need to take care of your wife but you have to realise that conflict does occur and at some time some physical restraint has to be used.

It is like saying policemen should not use legitimate force. The husband is the chief police of his household and his task begins with his wife. Most women won't need this rule but the minority have to be factored-in and protected as well. Otherwise, murder might become rampant when over-suppressed anger is unleashed.

It is no use forming Laissez Faire with this issue.

Officer Shun!!!!






_{What a wonderful world..}

usermane: Might i add two?
>Enforcing your opinion upon her regardless of her feelings is oppression evn though u r d head.
>Threatening to get a second wife is oppression evn though polygamy is halal.
>Disregarding her advice like a little girl 's is oppression. Its same as saying "u cant teach me a meaning thing, woman, i know best"
There is more to this than meet the eye. Ask some wives of some Ustaz,Mallams,Imams and u 'll b shocked that Charity may not begin from home afterall. Unfortunately a lot of preachers would rather preach on other issues like
>Polygamy and its importance
>Respect/Submission for husband
>Hijab, Jilbaab, Niqaab etc.
Instead of topics regarding respect for wives in a large part because there is this sub par belief that a respectful and overtly submissive wife will get fair play.

usermane:
To be honest,'BEATING' here is a relative term. To some, beating is equal to flogging, to others its a slap. But there are those who nvr resort to beating and would rather Divorce or Separate in the worst case scenerio.
Remember that a misbehaving wife has to first be admonished. If she doesnt amend then hubby could refuse her food,if she persist, he should stay out of bed from her. And eventually beating is only legal if the above measures have been employed in correcting her. But for the sake of truth and justice, beating here ought to be mild, not use of severe high impact force capable of yielding a stinging or burning sensation.
These just show how considerate Islam is. It is a simple religion but on an individual level, adherents can make it difficult for themselves if care isnt taken. Some muslims even batter their wives, pathetic isn't it?
Take Polygamy as a case, it is permitted for some of its merits but many muslim chose Monogamy. I mean how many men would chose d burden of multiple wives and how many wives relish the idea of a future co-wife. So also, is the issue of beating, Jack.

devour129: Marrying more than one wife is an oppression to the first

maclatunji:

Simple logic, she is likely to come-up worse if she strikes first. Equity my dear not equality. If the rule were to allow women to do the same as men, many would try it and come-out worse off. Islam is a pratical religion for all people. It embraces every type of scenario you can think of and comes out with a position that you can all work with. The blissful marriage obviously does not have this injunction applying to them. It is the gravely-ill ones that it applies to. What does it say? Man, control your anger and only tap her lightly instead of for example slapping or punching her.

victorD3: Why oppress your 4 wives on earth if you are expecting 72 virgins in heaven?

devour129: Marrying more than one wife is an oppression to the first

PEN_MIGHT: What are you saying,madam? But the wife is not complaining afterall she is married after someone too.

By the way , just try and stick to a child in your lifetime cos it will be an oppression to have multiple children.... Just an advice.....madame

PEN_MIGHT: What are you saying,madam? But the wife is not complaining afterall she is married after someone too.

By the way , just try and stick to a child in your lifetime cos it will be an oppression to have multiple children.... Just an advice.....madame

pmc01:
Wrong! I know of a few Muslim women who, of their own volition, requested their fellow unmarried sisters to marry their own husbands. They said their husbands are just too good, and it will be selfish of them to enjoy their good husbands alone. Allâhu akbar! That is the height of true piety. And I swear by Allâh who owns my soul that what I have related is true.
Do you still call that oppression?
Well, you might not really understand such unique behaviour cos our Muslim women are not just like every other street lady. They understand that the goodies with their Lord are not comparable to the mirage glitters of this present world.

PEN_MIGHT:

Those who invents lies against the religion will be resurrected on Judgement day with blackened face. Leave the fraudster.

jammyng: No matter how light you guys portray this, Islam allows physical means to correct one's wife.