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Who Are These Yorubas? - Culture (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 7:58pm On Dec 02, 2018
want2knowben:


You go investigate the claims, if you suspect them to be false.

That you can translate the Torah correctly by vowelising the consonants to yield Yoruba words, that match the accounts of the Bible and even yield additional information that was missed in KJV translation (because they didn't understand Yoruba/Hebrew enough) is proof enough. No other unfabricated living language is able to do that. Paleo-Hebrew is the Yoruba's ancient script. It is also called the Samaritan script. The people who own the language are the same people who have the traditions and customs.

If that does not convince you, try your hand at vowelising the Torah to yield your language of choice and bring it back here to share with us!

I have investigated and all such claims are false. Macof has already debunked all your claims on this thread so what again are you holding on to if not illogical faith?

Interesting enough, Yoruba language and Japanese can be stretched well enough to propose a connection even better than this Hebrew - Yoruba nonsense
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 8:08pm On Dec 02, 2018
want2knowben:


...... and you ignore this part of his post:


Yet the aforementioned elements are never taken into consideration, made clear when the fraudster said his conclusions are not "consistent with logical learning" rather blind faith grin of course it is what else?

Or do tell what part of The oral, written, artwork, spirituality, esoteric cults, religion, cuisine, language, priesthood, kingship, articles of statehood, philosophies like Omoluabi, proverbs and folklores, genetic and immune system, clothing and styling, war and weapons, and so on and so forth. of the Yoruba produce a single evidence of Hebrew origin?
Do Yoruba have oral histories of coming from Israel? Or are there any Yoruba cults that perform Hebrew rituals
Do Yoruba eat Hebrew food? Do Yoruba worship yahweh?
Is kingship in yorubaland formed after the kingship of Isreal?
Are there genetic haplogroups found in Semitic people dominant in yorubas?
Do Yoruba dress like Hebrews?

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by 0balufonlll: 10:00pm On Dec 02, 2018
want2knowben:


I made the link between 'Osoosi' and 'Circe' and 'Church', was mine and not the Oonirisa's.

I agree with his claim that Christianity and Islam came from the Yoruba religion (which is the true Judaism, not Judaism as the world knows it today). That you can translate the Torah correctly by vowelising the consonants to yield Yoruba words, that match the accounts of the Bible and even yield additional information that was missed in KJV translation (because they didn't understand Yoruba/Hebrew enough) is proof enough. No other unfabricated living language is able to do thate.

We had a system of writing and more before the Oyinbos came. Cameroon has discovered it's own ancient writing script. Paleo-Hebrew is the Yoruba's ancient script. It is also called the Samaritan script. Ancient Hebrew was never dead and the ten tribes of Israel never left earth; the world lied because they had an agenda.

The identity of the Israelites, the Arabs and the Egyptians were stolen. The world will continue to subjugate them until they return to God's true path. They need to know their true identity to rightfully take back their place on earth.

Evidently, you believe in the data contained in the Bible as true/facts. You first of all need to study the Historiography and the History of the Bible respectively then maybe you'll tweak your argument. Also, see the screen shots below on some of what early scholars said in regards to your standpoint. You may get some of the book cited (if you can/want), read them for further knowledge or to further develop your argument.

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by macof(m): 12:25am On Dec 03, 2018
want2knowben:


1. Did you miss the bit where I told you Jesus/Yeshua/Eisu/Eshu is not foreign to the Yoruba?

2. I acknowledge that Christianity and Islam are from the Yoruba religion. Or do you just like arguing for the sake of it?

3. Or are you just angry that YeHoWah who is the owner of all languages bypassed you and all your Professors to give the accurate decoding of Paleo-Hebrew to a non-professor? wink wink wink Learning requires openmindedness, my 'lost' brother.

I am proud to be an oYOiRUaBAoore(of the Hii-aBa-ooRe translated as Hebrew by the English), called by Oba Adeda Aseda Ameda to be set apart!

1. i dont even know why i bother because i know you have no answers but, let me still ask... what are the connecting points in the life of jesus and that of Esu?
bare in mind that you need to know Esu as much as you know Jesus, where his home was, his oriki, his friends/disciples(or lack thereof), his death, his birth, his miracles, his mischief and smarts(or lack thereof), his ascension(or lack of such) the etymological meaning of Esu and how it relates to that of Jesus to claim Esu and Jesus are the same person

So there since you wanted me to address your Esu/Jesus point so bad...but of course i know what your next post will be like (ie. ignoring the questions)

2. Ok..but you still choose christianity over the original? wonderful!

3. quality comedy, i would laugh if this wasnt so stupid to be coming from a so called yoruba person....P.s oh! you actually are not grin
4. I see, so you are not yoruba but oYOiRUaBAoore(of the [i]Hii-aBa-ooRe... I have never met anyone like that, must be a new ethnicity
is insanity a norm to your people? even the name screams 'NOT WELL'
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 12:32am On Dec 03, 2018
want2knowben:


Thanks. My intentions are to share what I know or I am researching and that's why I didn't follow arguments I identified as blind. It is such a shame that many of our educated people limit their learning to what their 'Professors' say/found. This is why there is hardly any innovation coming out of Nigerian academic institutions. They have become places to learn what is obsolete in today's society. Scholarly academic works (home and abroad) keep showing there are links between the Yoruba and the Ancient Hebrews but only a Non-academic decided to go outside the boundaries, and he found the supposedly dead language of the Ancient Hebrews was still well alive spoken by the Yorubas.

Mama Sikira the Hairdresser and Biodun the Tailor keep inventing new hair and dress Styles every few months but we fail to teach and encourage genius and invention in our schools. Even the Slaves found time to invent 'technology'. Everyone young or old, educated or not has the ability and right to be able to think outside the box.


Those who should grab the ingenuity and multiply its effect are stuck in a rat race, competing and looking for new ways to outshine one another in Euro-centric customs and philosophies. If you want to see them in action, open a thread to analyze any of the Shakespeare's plays, and watch how they soon congregate and blow grammar and pat each other on back about the author. To them Mama Sikira is an illiterate, her rare and artistic stylings were not written about by Skakespeare and is unworthy of their time. Show Ogunde, Ladipo, Ogunmola performing a Yoruba play….our professors of history and language will question the use of rituals and misrepresentation of culture because it is divergent from European and so is backward. They will criticize Ladipo breathing fire to portray Sango and demean it as diabolical. Followup on that and show them Matrix and how Keanu Reeves bend the element to dodge bullets....show them Harry Potter and the Sorcerer....or even Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Their excitement will know no bounds….

Harry Potter became an overnight success because the ingenuity of his plays has multiplying effects. Behind the scenes he is replaying what Yoruba has taken to stage as far back as 1950s and even earlier. Duro Ladipo took Oba Koso to Germany in 1964 and breathed fire on stage and they loved it, they did not criticize it. That success opened new doors for him to tour London, Paris, Switzerland, Brazil, America. Here at home our professors ridicule his value to society. Today, Yoruba has no library of arts or endowments dedicated to preservation of works by the likes of Ogunde, Ladipo and rest. We do not have the structure to reproduce and sustain their creativity. So why do we have Professors of History and Linguistics? grin Of what benefit are they to our society?

I must stress again, just share what you can. In fact I will admonish you not to share all...keep the most valuable of your findings and research work close to your breast and cherish them away from Nairaland, for interaction amongst higher intellectuals that can appreciate, maybe not necessarily agree....but they are awakened by it nonetheless.

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 12:46am On Dec 03, 2018
OlaoChi:


Yet the aforementioned elements are never taken into consideration, made clear when the fraudster said his conclusions are not "consistent with logical learning" rather blind faith grin of course it is what else?

Or do tell what part of. The oral, written, artwork, spirituality, esoteric cults, religion, cuisine, language, priesthood, kingship, articles of statehood, philosophies like Omoluabi, proverbs and folklores, genetic and immune system, clothing and styling, war and weapons, and so on and so forth. of the Yoruba produce a single evidence of Hebrew origin?
Do Yoruba have oral histories of coming from Israel? Or are there any Yoruba cults that perform Hebrew rituals
Do Yoruba eat Hebrew food? Do Yoruba worship yahweh?
Is kingship in yorubaland formed after the kingship of Isreal?
Are there genetic haplogroups found in Semitic people dominant in yorubas?
Do Yoruba dress like Hebrews?


That's an attachment of falsehood on your part. Go back and read the paragraph and context, not the word. Beside, do you believe in God? Have you seen him? Can you get a degree in God knowledge? No one can....he and his realm are beyond the reach of academic scholarship, no matter how profound. The best we can do is have faith that He is true and exists. Those who are engaged in daily worship of that existence are called Priests...and that's what I referenced. Stop pushing falsehood to score points.

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by macof(m): 1:14am On Dec 03, 2018
MetaPhysical:



Those who should grab the ingenuity and multiply its effect are stuck in a rat race, competing and looking for new ways to outshine one another in Euro-centric customs and philosophies. If you want to see them in action, open a thread to analyze any of the Shakespeare's plays, and watch how they soon congregate and blow grammar and pat each other on back about the author. To them Mama Sikira is an illiterate, her rare and artistic stylings were not written about by Skakespeare and is unworthy of their time. Show Ogunde, Ladipo, Ogunmola performing a Yoruba play….our professors of history and language will question the use of rituals and misrepresentation of culture because it is divergent from European and so is backward. They will criticize Ladipo breathing fire to portray Sango and demean it as diabolical. Followup on that and show them Matrix and how Keanu Reeves bend the element to dodge bullets....show them Harry Potter and the Sorcerer....or even Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Their excitement will know no bounds….

Harry Potter became an overnight success because the ingenuity of his plays has multiplying effects. Behind the scenes he is replaying what Yoruba has taken to stage as far back as 1950s and even earlier. Duro Ladipo took Oba Koso to Germany in 1964 and breathed fire on stage and they loved it, they did not criticize it. That success opened new doors for him to tour London, Paris, Switzerland, Brazil, America. Here at home our professors ridicule his value to society. Today, Yoruba has no library of arts or endowments dedicated to preservation of works by the likes of Ogunde, Ladipo and rest. We do not have the structure to reproduce and sustain their creativity. So why do we have Professors of History and Linguistics? grin Of what benefit are they to our society?

I must stress again, just share what you can. In fact I will admonish you not to share all...keep the most valuable of your findings and research work close to your breast and cherish them away from Nairaland, for interaction amongst higher intellectuals that can appreciate, maybe not necessarily agree....but they are awakened by it nonetheless.

grin grin grin ok this is just clownish. Even i can clown but this is overboard to a high degree of dishonesty.

ObalufonIII and I, are known to represent everything authentic yoruba on this forum. I am yet to see a better moniker... this your 'eurocentric' allegation is not only ridiculously far-fetched but actually hypocritical, i mean how does a person who is so swayed by foreign beliefs to the extent of trying to reconcile his 'kafir' and 'pagan' yoruba ancestry to his foreign religion accusing people who are traditionally grounded on bashing traditional stuff grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin What traditional knowledge do you possess? what traditional activity do you perform?
imagine you compare your nonsense to the works of Duro Ladipo and Ogunde. Where on this forum have you mentioned yoruba strictly to portray yoruba in its glory without references to arabs or other semitic people as if to imply the yoruba cannot be relevant without them?

You are distorting everything yoruba and turning history, traditions and language up side down and still want to claim to stand for the very identity you want to supplant and replace with a semitic based one? of course you cant succeed but how many people will you mislead eventually? how many people who have a growing urge to reconnect to their Yoruba traditions due to not being knowledgeable will be deceived by your fake persona of standing for Yoruba?



You can never know the benefit of historians and linguists because you do not appreciate history or linguistics. you claim to have knowledge of yoruba origin based on language similarity of which you have listed several examples but absolutely none after years of looking for semitic words in yoruba language, are a result of any methodology
you said Aramean is Oranmiyan...how? what is the corrolation? do they have similar meanings, do they make up the same root words when broken down? no follow up, no re-testable method used to arrive at this conclusion because you lack the skills of a proper linguist...yet you sit somewhere trying to trash talk your betters

imagine someone who claims to be interested in origin of a people who asks whats the benefit of historians and linguists? grin grin grin

imagine 1 million people like this in yorubaland, the entire yoruba identity will be lost in no time...that is probably the aim anyway undecided

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 1:55am On Dec 03, 2018
0balufonlll:


Evidently, you believe in the data contained in the Bible as true/facts. You first of all need to study the Historiography and the History of the Bible respectively then maybe you'll tweak your argument. Also, see the screen shots below on some of what early scholars said in regards to your standpoint. You may get some of the book cited (if you can/want), read them for further knowledge or to further develop your argument.

I read this book you screenshot here. Let me itemize my thoughts on this so it is organized for clarity.

Here are my theories...

1 - I have never seen any report, however remote in time, of any earth shifting force or plate movements anywhere in Yoruba region.

If you have any plese share, otherwise we should agree that the land itself and its topography is a constant for as far back into human history we can go.


2 - I have never heard of any devastating weather or climatic change that transformed the landscape and coasts of Yorubaland and its region.

If you have information to the contrary, share. The drying up of river or water body is a climatic change. Famine is a climatic change.


3 - The above two (tectonic movement and climatic change) are factors typically recorded for "involuntary" displacement and population wipeout or relocations in human, plant and animal history.

In their absence we can conclude that the ecology in Yorubaland and its region have been in balance a very very long time. Ecology is the cohabitation of humans, plants, animals, and involve subsistence on land, water and air.


4 - Unless we have carbon dating that can prove the above constants invalid, then we should agree that Yorubaland and its region has been peopled for millenias.


5 - Any displacements and population shifts on record can therefore be attributed to "voluntary" outcomes.

Like migration, war, commerce, and so on. We have records of these voluntary movements occurring in Yorubaland and its region.


6 - The voluntary actions of displacement should therefore be our baseline in studying the pattern of movement, the reshaping of ecology and the resultant outcomes they produced as it affects a transformative evolution in structures of power and identities.


7 - We should divide the epochs to a pre-Oduduwa X-land and post-Oduduwa Yorubaland.


I say X-land because Yoruba is the identity of Oduduwa.



8 - The people of X-land were the aborigines and existed as autonomous communities, spoke different languages, with no central power of state.

Their language is the Niger-Congo stock.



9 - Ile Ife was a city remnant of the Nok civilization and was located on the bank of the Niger.

The Ile Ife today is not the original.



10 - Oduduwa came to this side of the world to find abode amongst the Nok. His navigation path from Borno down to the Niger-Benue Confluence and into Nupe country and southward to Old Ife is suggestive of a search for the Nok people where he knew best to locate them. He met their ruins in the Niger-Benue valley but continued on to find their remnants....which he did in Old Ife. He did not further his journey past the Old Nok city.



11 - Obatala, Obalufon and the rest were state rulers of what was left of Nok society. The Nok civilization and its language is the de facto culture and lingua-franca of all indigenous people of Benue-Valley basin. The language distribution is what is now classified as Niger-Congo.

Late comers into the region, like the Yorubas, with a different language stock were mistaken as indigenous population and co-joined into the Niger-Congo.


12 - The Nok culture and rulership in Old Ife were displaced and substituted with a new world order imported with migrant Oduduwa from the Nile/Mesopotamian basin.


13 - The dispersions of Yoruba from North East outwardly should be corrected....that mapping represents the outflow of conquest and power after Old Ife was in the grip of Oduduwa and his camp fanned out into the autonomous communities in X-land and imposed statehood on them to form what we now call a total Yoruba Commonwealth.

14- The dispersion discussed in this book should be seen as deployments of crowns and its attendant new order, rather than the movement of people and population of virgin lands never before lived in as inferred by the author.

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 2:41am On Dec 03, 2018
macof:


grin grin grin ok this is just clownish. Even i can clown but this is overboard to a high degree of dishonesty.

ObalufonIII and I, are known to represent everything authentic yoruba on this forum. I am yet to see a better moniker... this your 'eurocentric' allegation is not only ridiculously far-fetched but actually hypocritical, i mean how does a person who is so swayed by foreign beliefs to the extent of trying to reconcile his 'kafir' and 'pagan' yoruba ancestry to his foreign religion accusing people who are traditionally grounded on bashing traditional stuff grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin What traditional knowledge do you possess? what traditional activity do you perform?
imagine you compare your nonsense to the works of Duro Ladipo and Ogunde. Where on this forum have you mentioned yoruba strictly to portray yoruba in its glory without references to arabs or other semitic people as if to imply the yoruba cannot be relevant without them?

You are distorting everything yoruba and turning history, traditions and language up side down and still want to claim to stand for the very identity you want to supplant and replace with a semitic based one? of course you cant succeed but how many people will you mislead eventually? how many people who have a growing urge to reconnect to their Yoruba traditions due to not being knowledgeable will be deceived by your fake persona of standing for Yoruba?



You can never know the benefit of historians and linguists because you do not appreciate history or linguistics. you claim to have knowledge of yoruba origin based on language similarity of which you have listed several examples but absolutely none after years of looking for semitic words in yoruba language, are a result of any methodology
you said Aramean is Oranmiyan...how? what is the corrolation? do they have similar meanings, do they make up the same root words when broken down? no follow up, no re-testable method used to arrive at this conclusion because you lack the skills of a proper linguist...yet you sit somewhere trying to trash talk your betters

imagine someone who claims to be interested in origin of a people who asks whats the benefit of historians and linguists? grin grin grin

imagine 1 million people like this in yorubaland, the entire yoruba identity will be lost in no time...that is probably the aim anyway undecided


So we don't go into long essays on this misunderstanding. Please put this on your record so you can reference it in future recalls.


1 - I have always presented my contributions as "my personal conviction and truths", separate from the mainstream acceptance of research studies. Sometimes I would tread in areas I am yet to fully get clarity and in those cases I present "my theories".


2 - I do not bring my religion, faith, spiritualism and initiations into competition with others'. I don't know who is across from me and what they know or do not know. I do not compete on the level. I also keep my spirituality a personal business that no one needs to know but me and my God.
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by 0balufonlll: 1:32pm On Dec 03, 2018
MetaPhysical:


I read this book you screenshot here. Let me itemize my thoughts on this so it is organized for clarity.

Here are my theories...

1 - I have never seen any report, however remote in time, of any earth shifting force or plate movements anywhere in Yoruba region.

If you have any plese share, otherwise we should agree that the land itself and its topography is a constant for as far back into human history we can go.


2 - I have never heard of any devastating weather or climatic change that transformed the landscape and coasts of Yorubaland and its region.

If you have information to the contrary, share. The drying up of river or water body is a climatic change. Famine is a climatic change.


3 - The above two (tectonic movement and climatic change) are factors typically recorded for "involuntary" displacement and population wipeout or relocations in human, plant and animal history.

In their absence we can conclude that the ecology in Yorubaland and its region have been in balance a very very long time. Ecology is the cohabitation of humans, plants, animals, and involve subsistence on land, water and air.


4 - Unless we have carbon dating that can prove the above constants invalid, then we should agree that Yorubaland and its region has been peopled for millenias.


5 - Any displacements and population shifts on record can therefore be attributed to "voluntary" outcomes.

Like migration, war, commerce, and so on. We have records of these voluntary movements occurring in Yorubaland and its region.


6 - The voluntary actions of displacement should therefore be our baseline in studying the pattern of movement, the reshaping of ecology and the resultant outcomes they produced as it affects a transformative evolution in structures of power and identities.


7 - We should divide the epochs to a pre-Oduduwa X-land and post-Oduduwa Yorubaland.


I say X-land because Yoruba is the identity of Oduduwa.



8 - The people of X-land were the aborigines and existed as autonomous communities, spoke different languages, with no central power of state.

Their language is the Niger-Congo stock.



9 - Ile Ife was a city remnant of the Nok civilization and was located on the bank of the Niger.

The Ile Ife today is not the original.


I agree with the tectonic movements and climatic change along with their attendant consequences on human migration across Yorubaland. I also agree that, Yorubaland/W.Africa has been peopled for millenia. I agree with all of that. I should also add that I agree with your other postulations and the periodization of Yoruba history into pre-Oduduwa and Oduduwa era.

While I agree that Yoruba peoples may have migrated from the Nok/River Niger area, I should however add that your theory of Ile-Ife of today not being the original one is closely related to what Prof. Ade Obayemi has pursued forever. The pages of the journal, written by Robin Horton, from which I posted the screen-shots have however disputed this theory based on the 'new evidences' that came up several years ago. I could share the journal article with you. It is in my dropbox, I'll just post a link from which you download it or you could get it from Jstor - Horton, R., Ancient Ife: A Reassessment, Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 9, No. 4, 1979.

10 - Oduduwa came to this side of the world to find abode amongst the Nok. His navigation path from Borno down to the Niger-Benue Confluence and into Nupe country and southward to Old Ife is suggestive of a search for the Nok people where he knew best to locate them. He met their ruins in the Niger-Benue valley but continued on to find their remnants....which he did in Old Ife. He did not further his journey past the Old Nok city.

11 - Obatala, Obalufon and the rest were state rulers of what was left of Nok society. The Nok civilization and its language is the de facto culture and lingua-franca of all indigenous people of Benue-Valley basin. The language distribution is what is now classified as Niger-Congo.

Late comers into the region, like the Yorubas, with a different language stock were mistaken as indigenous population and co-joined into the Niger-Congo.

12 - The Nok culture and rulership in Old Ife were displaced and substituted with a new world order imported with migrant Oduduwa from the Nile/Mesopotamian basin.

13 - The dispersions of Yoruba from North East outwardly should be corrected....that mapping represents the outflow of conquest and power after Old Ife was in the grip of Oduduwa and his camp fanned out into the autonomous communities in X-land and imposed statehood on them to form what we now call a total Yoruba Commonwealth.

14- The dispersion discussed in this book should be seen as deployments of crowns and its attendant new order, rather than the movement of people and population of virgin lands never before lived in as inferred by the author.

Your theory here is very interesting. However, since scholars and laymen alike agree that festivals contain ritual dramas and re-enactments of past historical events and as such can be regarded as veritable sources of History, then it is safe to say that a careful assessment of the festivals attributed to the culture heroes you've listed (Oduduwa, Obatala, Obalufon & the rest) depict local origins for them and not a foreign origin has your theory here presents. They were not migrants - the re-enactments of certain aspects of the festivals and lineages they left behind are tied to certain places and some excavated materials. You may just need to study the extant literatures on these festivals or participate in the festivals for first hand experience. Scholars (and non-scholars alike) are well aware that the reason why many people ascribe Near East origins to Yoruba culture heroes of local origin is because of Samuel Johnson's work and Law, R. C. C., has done an interesting work on placing Johnson's work in proper perspective as an 'Oyo Propaganda' in The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba, Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2. 1973. Several Yoruba towns have written their own versions of 'Ife history' with Johnson's work serving as a foundational framework. Nonetheless, while several of these work 'agree' with Johnson's work, you'll find that they begin to contradict each other and struggle to place one another above Johnson/Oyo. A case in point is the work written by Agunlejika, titled Ijesa Chronicles: An Historiographic Tribute.

Like I have always said (earlier Historians have said it too), early Ife History is NOT Yoruba history. Yoruba history began with the dispersal of 'princes' from Ile-Ife at Ita-Ajero from where they went off to found new kingdoms. And as such, the other Yoruba towns can not provide a proper narrative of Ife history - Oyo and Johnson fall in this category.

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by want2knowben: 4:43pm On Dec 05, 2018
OlaoChi:


I have investigated and all such claims are false. Macof has already debunked all your claims on this thread so what again are you holding on to if not illogical faith?

Interesting enough, Yoruba language and Japanese can be stretched well enough to propose a connection even better than this Hebrew - Yoruba nonsense

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by want2knowben: 4:48pm On Dec 05, 2018
OlaoChi:


I have investigated and all such claims are false. Macof has already debunked all your claims on this thread so what again are you holding on to if not illogical faith?

Interesting enough, Yoruba language and Japanese can be stretched well enough to propose a connection even better than this Hebrew - Yoruba nonsense

Mr Debunker, please, kindly see and read the contents of the attachment in my immediately preceding post.

Q1. Are you Yoruba?
Q2. Can you read Yoruba?
Q3. How many Yoruba dialects can you read, write and understand? Which ones exactly?
Q4. What is the depth of your knowledge on Yoruba oral history and traditions?
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by want2knowben: 4:54pm On Dec 05, 2018
OlaoChi:


I have investigated and all such claims are false. Macof has already debunked all your claims on this thread so what again are you holding on to if not illogical faith?

Interesting enough, Yoruba language and Japanese can be stretched well enough to propose a connection even better than this Hebrew - Yoruba nonsense

macof:

1. i dont even know why i bother because i know you have no answers but, let me still ask... what are the connecting points in the life of jesus and that of Esu?
bare in mind that you need to know Esu as much as you know Jesus, where his home was, his oriki, his friends/disciples(or lack thereof), his death, his birth, his miracles, his mischief and smarts(or lack thereof), his ascension(or lack of such) the etymological meaning of Esu and how it relates to that of Jesus to claim Esu and Jesus are the same person

So there since you wanted me to address your Esu/Jesus point so bad...but of course i know what your next post will be like (ie. ignoring the questions)

Mr Debunker, this one is for you. (And macof my Professor)

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by want2knowben: 6:08pm On Dec 05, 2018
OlaoChi:


Yet the aforementioned elements are never taken into consideration, made clear when the fraudster said his conclusions are not "consistent with logical learning" rather blind faith grin of course it is what else?

Or do tell what part of The oral, written, artwork, spirituality, esoteric cults, religion, cuisine, language, priesthood, kingship, articles of statehood, philosophies like Omoluabi, proverbs and folklores, genetic and immune system, clothing and styling, war and weapons, and so on and so forth. of the Yoruba produce a single evidence of Hebrew origin?
Do Yoruba have oral histories of coming from Israel? Or are there any Yoruba cults that perform Hebrew rituals
Do Yoruba eat Hebrew food? Do Yoruba worship yahweh?
Is kingship in yorubaland formed after the kingship of Isreal?
Are there genetic haplogroups found in Semitic people dominant in yorubas?
Do Yoruba dress like Hebrews?


You are missing the point which is that the 'Jewish' have taken on an identity which is not theirs. (Try reading 'The invention of the Jewish People' and 'The Thirteenth Tribe', to start with). They took on the identity of a people displaced from their land by War and persecution. The 'Jews' admit they are no blood relations of Israel; they are converts. African Americans are testing their haplogroups and some results are linking to the Yoruba with Haplogroups identified as being of Jacob's descendants.

Try this: The Igbos are recognised as being 'Jews' by Israel. Now apply your 7 questions to the Igbo. Now apply the same 7 questions to the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia, majority of whom were evacuated to Israel.

The descendants of the victims of the transatlantic slave trade outside of Africa today, do they eat the food the ancestors took with them on those slave ships? I heard they travelled First Class with 300kg baggage allowance each! angry Or could it be possible that the slaves settled down in their new countries and ate and planted what was available there? Or were their brothers sending Stockfish and Akpu by DHL? lipsrsealed undecided tongue

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by want2knowben: 6:49pm On Dec 05, 2018
0balufonlll:


Evidently, you believe in the data contained in the Bible as true/facts. You first of all need to study the Historiography and the History of the Bible respectively then maybe you'll tweak your argument. Also, see the screen shots below on some of what early scholars said in regards to your standpoint. You may get some of the book cited (if you can/want), read them for further knowledge or to further develop your argument.

Thank you for the citation. 'Ancient Ife: A reassessment' will make good read one of these days. I do not believe that the Yoruba or all peoples emanated from present-day Ife via the 'chicken and sand' route , especially since I am a Bible believer. I keep reading, I keep digging, I keep learning, I keep testing, including that which I already believe.

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by 0balufonlll: 7:09pm On Dec 05, 2018
want2knowben:


Thank you for the citation. 'Ancient Ife: A reassessment' will make good read one of these days. I do not believe that the Yoruba or all peoples emanated from present-day Ife via the 'chicken and sand' route , especially since I am a Bible believer. I keep reading, I keep digging, I keep learning, I keep testing, including that which I already believe.

Indeed it is. Prof. Horton, although a foreigner, did a very solid job in the paper. In fact, he mentioned certain things in that article which made me wonder if this man was Yoruba.

I must state that I am confused by this statement of yours ' I do not believe that the Yoruba or all peoples emanated from present-day Ife via the 'chicken and sand' route , especially since I am a Bible believer'. If you believe in the 'magico-spiritual' narratives spread across the bible, then why is the chicken and sand difficult for you to believe? The stories in the bible and the chicken story are in the same class - they're myths. Besides, I should ask, have you read studies on Bible history? This may help you re-assess your 'believe' in the bible.

Lastly, you (& I) must understand that Ife early history is wrapped in rooster & bull stories such as the chicken and sand theory. Why? Because Ile-Ife is an agglomeration of lineages founded by several of these Orisas so

1. each lineage fabricates stories to sell their 'product' as the foremost. For instance, the chicken and sand story isn't the only one. Orunmila has his own creation story where he created the world and not Oduduwa; there is the creation story where Olokun features prominently; there is a creation story featuring Oramfe as the creator; there is the creation story of Obatala actually creating the world without getting drunk. Again, the sand and chicken story is the most popular because Samuel Johnson filled the void of a written Yoruba history and everyone latched on to it.

2. Orisa are defied culture heroes in Ile-Ife while in other Yoruba towns, they are largely spiritual entities with their historical essence taken out. For instance, Obatala festival does not feature Obameri festival in other Yoruba towns like it does in Ife; Oduduwa festival does not feature Oduduwa's eventual murder in other places like it does in Ife; Ogun festival in Ife is solely based on how Ogun was usurped and expelled, it is not so in other Yoruba towns and so on. Conversely, you'll see that deities that are not of Ife origina lack pomp, value & followership. In fact, such deities are usually rated & treated as 'second class' - Sango is a good example. In Oyo it is massive, here, outside of Babalawo or Ifa initiates whose Odus require Sango invocation, you'll rarely find Sango anywhere. It is the same for Esu and so on. As a result of this, Ife is made up of an interconnectedness & inter-group relations of warring & neutral factions of culture heroes who continue to lay claims to spaces founded by these culture heroes.

3. Apart from wanting to out do each other with captivating and alluring mythical stories, the tales like chicken & sand one also serves the purpose of 1. Blurring the blotted parts of the history of the culture heroes that founded some of these lineages. 2. To also shroud the activities of these lineages from each other. For example: the Oduduwa group coined a story of Oduduwa using chain to descend for creation, rather, the chain is connected to his murder. If you go to Oduduwa temple/compound today, there is a tiny hole dug deep into the ground through which libations and votive materials are given to Oduduwa. Rather than declare his murder and the return of the throne to the Obatala group, they decided to spin the story to glorify their father and lineage. If anyone is in doubt, they can research the 'iteni ota' aspect of Odun Oduduwa.

Baba, it is important for us to see that our ancestors have historical essence to them. I think the problem is that many of us think these Orisas are spiritual without any aspact of human life & activities to them. It is the same ignorance that makes people ascribe chiefpriest role to the Ooni because Ife is filled with compounds of Orisas with festivals done daily without knowing that these Orisas are family properties and their businesses are handled by their respective families.

Cheers baba, laters.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by want2knowben: 7:41pm On Dec 05, 2018
macof:

.........

2. Ok..but you still choose christianity over the original? wonderful!

Uwe lela ni, hii k'oni s'uwadi kete ohun finifini, k'oniyan ya toro mo eyi kee s'ododo li be! Olorun kee gbo adua ki mo ti mo lati pinisin li mo ti toro mo baa. Olorun yi pada; oro re yi pada!

Vous comprenez? I have answered you in Yoruba. Translate make I see! grin


3. quality comedy, i would laugh if this wasnt so stupid to be coming from a so called yoruba person....P.s oh! you actually are not grin

What's funny? What's stupid? Okay, see the attachment on Esu again!


4. I see, so you are not yoruba but oYOiRUaBAoore(of the [i]Hii-aBa-ooRe... I have never met anyone like that, must be a new ethnicity
is insanity a norm to your people? even the name screams 'NOT WELL'

I am waiting to know how much Yoruba you know. cool cool

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by TAO11(f): 10:03pm On Dec 05, 2018
0balufonlll:



I agree with the tectonic movements and climatic change along with their attendant consequences on human migration across Yorubaland. I also agree that, Yorubaland/W.Africa has been peopled for millenia. I agree with all of that. I should also add that I agree with your other postulations and the periodization of Yoruba history into pre-Oduduwa and Oduduwa era.

While I agree that Yoruba peoples may have migrated from the Nok/River Niger area, I should however add that your theory of Ile-Ife of today not being the original one is closely related to what Prof. Ade Obayemi has pursued forever. The pages of the journal, written by Robin Horton, from which I posted the screen-shots have however disputed this theory based on the 'new evidences' that came up several years ago. I could share the journal article with you. It is in my dropbox, I'll just post a link from which you download it or you could get it from Jstor - Horton, R., Ancient Ife: A Reassessment, Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 9, No. 4, 1979.



Your theory here is very interesting. However, since scholars and laymen alike agree that festivals contain ritual dramas and re-enactments of past historical events and as such can be regarded as veritable sources of History, then it is safe to say that a careful assessment of the festivals attributed to the culture heroes you've listed (Oduduwa, Obatala, Obalufon & the rest) depict local origins for them and not a foreign origin has your theory here presents. They were not migrants - the re-enactments of certain aspects of the festivals and lineages they left behind are tied to certain places and some excavated materials. You may just need to study the extant literatures on these festivals or participate in the festivals for first hand experience. Scholars (and non-scholars alike) are well aware that the reason why many people ascribe Near East origins to Yoruba culture heroes of local origin is because of Samuel Johnson's work and Law, R. C. C., has done an interesting work on placing Johnson's work in proper perspective as an 'Oyo Propaganda' in The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba, Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2. 1973. Several Yoruba towns have written their own versions of 'Ife history' with Johnson's work serving as a foundational framework. Nonetheless, while several of these work 'agree' with Johnson's work, you'll find that they begin to contradict each other and struggle to place one another above Johnson/Oyo. A case in point is the work written by Agunlejika, titled Ijesa Chronicles: An Historiographic Tribute.

Like I have always said (earlier Historians have said it too), early Ife History is NOT Yoruba history. Yoruba history began with the dispersal of 'princes' from Ile-Ife at Ita-Ajero from where they went off to found new kingdoms. And as such, the other Yoruba towns can not provide a proper narrative of Ife history - Oyo and Johnson fall in this category.

.
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 10:57pm On Dec 05, 2018
want2knowben:


You are missing the point which is that the 'Jewish' have taken on an identity which is not theirs. (Try reading 'The invention of the Jewish People' and 'The Thirteenth Tribe', to start with). They took on the identity of a people displaced from their land by War and persecution. The 'Jews' admit they are no blood relations of Israel; they are converts. African Americans are testing their haplogroups and some results are linking to the Yoruba with Haplogroups identified as being of Jacob's descendants.

Try this: The Igbos are recognised as being 'Jews' by Israel. Now apply your 7 questions to the Igbo. Now apply the same 7 questions to the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia, majority of whom were evacuated to Israel.

The descendants of the victims of the transatlantic slave trade outside of Africa today, do they eat the food the ancestors took with them on those slave ships? I heard they travelled First Class with 300kg baggage allowance each! angry Or could it be possible that the slaves settled down in their new countries and ate and planted what was available there? Or were their brothers sending Stockfish and Akpu by DHL? lipsrsealed undecided tongue

LMAO stop wasting people's time here
Just provide evidence to all the claims here

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 10:59pm On Dec 05, 2018
0balufonlll:


Indeed it is. Prof. Horton, although a foreigner, did a very solid job in the paper. In fact, he mentioned certain things in that article which made me wonder if this man was Yoruba.

I must state that I am confused by this statement of yours ' I do not believe that the Yoruba or all peoples emanated from present-day Ife via the 'chicken and sand' route , especially since I am a Bible believer'. If you believe in the 'magico-spiritual' narratives spread across the bible, then why is the chicken and sand difficult for you to believe? The stories in the bible and the chicken story are in the same class - they're myths. Besides, I should ask, have you read studies on Bible history? This may help you re-assess your 'believe' in the bible.

Lastly, you (& I) must understand that Ife early history is wrapped in rooster & bull stories such as the chicken and sand theory. Why? Because Ile-Ife is an agglomeration of lineages founded by several of these Orisas so

1. each lineage fabricates stories to sell their 'product' as the foremost. For instance, the chicken and sand story isn't the only one. Orunmila has his own creation story where he created the world and not Oduduwa; there is the creation story where Olokun features prominently; there is a creation story featuring Oramfe as the creator; there is the creation story of Obatala actually creating the world without getting drunk. Again, the sand and chicken story is the most popular because Samuel Johnson filled the void of a written Yoruba history and everyone latched on to it.

2. Orisa are defied culture heroes in Ile-Ife while in other Yoruba towns, they are largely spiritual entities with their historical essence taken out. For instance, Obatala festival does not feature Obameri festival in other Yoruba towns like it does in Ife; Oduduwa festival does not feature Oduduwa's eventual murder in other places like it does in Ife; Ogun festival in Ife is solely based on how Ogun was usurped and expelled, it is not so in other Yoruba towns and so on. Conversely, you'll see that deities that are not of Ife origina lack pomp, value & followership. In fact, such deities are usually rated & treated as 'second class' - Sango is a good example. In Oyo it is massive, here, outside of Babalawo or Ifa initiates whose Odus require Sango invocation, you'll rarely find Sango anywhere. It is the same for Esu and so on. As a result of this, Ife is made up of an interconnectedness & inter-group relations of warring & neutral factions of culture heroes who continue to lay claims to spaces founded by these culture heroes.

3. Apart from wanting to out do each other with captivating and alluring mythical stories, the tales like chicken & sand one also serves the purpose of 1. Blurring the blotted parts of the history of the culture heroes that founded some of these lineages. 2. To also shroud the activities of these lineages from each other. For example: the Oduduwa group coined a story of Oduduwa using chain to descend for creation, rather, the chain is connected to his murder. If you go to Oduduwa temple/compound today, there is a tiny hole dug deep into the ground through which libations and votive materials are given to Oduduwa. Rather than declare his murder and the return of the throne to the Obatala group, they decided to spin the story to glorify their father and lineage. If anyone is in doubt, they can research the 'iteni ota' aspect of Odun Oduduwa.

Baba, it is important for us to see that our ancestors have historical essence to them. I think the problem is that many of us think these Orisas are spiritual without any aspact of human life & activities to them. It is the same ignorance that makes people ascribe chiefpriest role to the Ooni because Ife is filled with compounds of Orisas with festivals done daily without knowing that these Orisas are family properties and their businesses are handled by their respective families.

Cheers baba, laters.

I think this is something I have learnt from you, that Yoruba history is lineage based, something people don't think about
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 11:07pm On Dec 05, 2018
Do Yoruba have oral histories of coming from Israel? Or are there any Yoruba cults that perform Hebrew rituals
Do Yoruba eat Hebrew food? Do Yoruba worship yahweh?
Is kingship in yorubaland formed after the kingship of Isreal?
Are there genetic haplogroups found in Semitic people dominant in yorubas?
Do Yoruba dress like Hebrews?

Simple questions. If the answer to any of these questions is no, then your Hebrew claims should be thrown out to the trash at the slightest sight of it. If you want to address these points do so with references and academic/traditional sources not more claims
@metaphysical @want2knowben :

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 3:58am On Dec 06, 2018
0balufonlll:

While I agree that Yoruba peoples may have migrated from the Nok/River Niger area, I should however add that your theory of Ile-Ife of today not being the original one is closely related to what Prof. Ade Obayemi has pursued forever. The pages of the journal, written by Robin Horton, from which I posted the screen-shots have however disputed this theory based on the 'new evidences' that came up several years ago. I could share the journal article with you. It is in my dropbox, I'll just post a link from which you download it or you could get it from Jstor - Horton, R., Ancient Ife: A Reassessment, Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 9, No. 4, 1979.



Your theory here is very interesting. However, since scholars and laymen alike agree that festivals contain ritual dramas and re-enactments of past historical events and as such can be regarded as veritable sources of History, then it is safe to say that a careful assessment of the festivals attributed to the culture heroes you've listed (Oduduwa, Obatala, Obalufon & the rest) depict local origins for them and not a foreign origin has your theory here presents. They were not migrants - the re-enactments of certain aspects of the festivals and lineages they left behind are tied to certain places and some excavated materials. You may just need to study the extant literatures on these festivals or participate in the festivals for first hand experience. Scholars (and non-scholars alike) are well aware that the reason why many people ascribe Near East origins to Yoruba culture heroes of local origin is because of Samuel Johnson's work and Law, R. C. C., has done an interesting work on placing Johnson's work in proper perspective as an 'Oyo Propaganda' in The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba, Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2. 1973. Several Yoruba towns have written their own versions of 'Ife history' with Johnson's work serving as a foundational framework. Nonetheless, while several of these work 'agree' with Johnson's work, you'll find that they begin to contradict each other and struggle to place one another above Johnson/Oyo. A case in point is the work written by Agunlejika, titled Ijesa Chronicles: An Historiographic Tribute.

Like I have always said (earlier Historians have said it too), early Ife History is NOT Yoruba history. Yoruba history began with the dispersal of 'princes' from Ile-Ife at Ita-Ajero from where they went off to found new kingdoms. And as such, the other Yoruba towns can not provide a proper narrative of Ife history - Oyo and Johnson fall in this category.


I did not know your response will dig this deep. I have a deeper response to you than one I gave last. I believe itemization works well as a style of expression for what I need to share so I'm going to maintain that for now.


What civilization is NOK?

The simple truth is we don't know!

However, there is a common signature that can be found amongst indigenous people of Niger-Benue (I am going to knock the Congo out so I can narrow down), which is distinct and separate from a similar thread of familial origin of the immigrants that arrived later to dwell amongst them.

1- NOK is a village of the Gbagyis in Southern Kaduna. The popular naming of NOK civilization took its name from their town because of a digging which accidentaly unveiled buried treasures (similar to same outcome in Ile Ife of the Bronze Heads). The treasures uncovered in NOK village were Terracotta heads done in stylistic arts. They were believed tohold significant value and a meaning, and because of their refinement it was concludedto belong to a past and lost civilization. It was found in NOK village.....this is how it came to be called NOK Civilization.

2 - Terracotta is done in red earth mixed with additives to make different products in art, like the NOK heads, ceramics, pots and so on.


3 - Only two areas so far are known in Nigeria to have produced ancient beautiful arts in Terracotta Heads.
a) NOK,
b) IleIfe


Recall my earlier theory that NOK civilization and its culture covered the Niger-Benue Basin and that their seat of power was in ruins by time Oduduwa arrived. He only followed down the river bank to find their remnants at the original Ile-Ife. In this region, only NOK and Ife had their Heads preserved.


Were theseTerracotta Heads valuable treasures, why were they preserved in the ground?

Monsanto took on a project few years back when it set out to control global distribution of organic seeds and crops. They took original copies of every food crop and herb and seed and preserved them in an undergound vault somewhere in the frigid temperate lands. Their investment is measured against risks of war, famine, disease, calamity of nature or man made.


When NOK and Ife buried their treasures into the vault in the ground, what risks were they countering and what was their fear?
I theorize that in the ancient time in this part of the world such arts were rare. Found only amongst those who ordered and orgamized society. The production would also have been narrowed within a small guild of noble artisans and controlled with the seal of authorityfrom the King or Emperor himself. These Heads, in addition to having symbolic character for a sitting King or Hero, it would also have been the currency of power. If you didn't have a Terracotta Head you were not supreme. The way they were found in NOK suggests they were rescued out of the primary seat of power in the valley itself....and moved far upland. Nothing else of anitquity were found in that village beside these Heads. If NOK was their original vault, other work of ceramics would also have been unearthed. In Ife on the other hand, not only were the Terracotta Heads found....many works of ceramics, jewelries, kitchenware and potsherds were also discovered, in addition to paved walkways, as if there was an underground shelter or living space.


The seat of NOK power in the valley could have been under attack and gave grounds to the rescue of arts to a safe and remote area upland which is now the Gbagyi village where they were found centuries later. . Eventually they were wiped out. The ones that survived the war were those Oduduwa met in Ife, intact. The ancients were right in putting their treasures in the vault afterall!


What was color of the indigenes under NOK?

I want to be mischievious for a moment. Instead of calling them NOK, I want to start calling them by their signature color - The Red Civilization.

1 - All the ethnicities that wear RED on their noble ruler as an accent of culture, whether Red hat, Red calico, Red cape got it from NOK rulers of Niger-Benue basin.

a) Jukun
b) Igala
c) Idoma
d) Igodomigodo
e) Igbo


2 - Ile Ife before Oduduwa would also have worn Red on its Kings. It stopped because a new social order was in place under rulership of the immigrat Yoruba.



What color did the immigrants have?
The immigrants were all, without exception, a people of Indigo (Blue)

a) Yoruba
b) Baruba
c) Yauri
d) Hausa
e) Kanuri



There are other tangibles that connect the indigenous group together within their own nucleus but separate and excluded from objects of value which is common and tie the immigrants to a common origin in the Nile/Mesopotamia basin. As of today, these cultures have all undergone multiplicities of cross-bonding and that has resulted in overlays of language, culture and even historical assimilations. Their origin, nonetheless, has history and trace.

Obalufon, I cannot lay all my weapons out in one post. I will stop here and put the rest in my back pocket for use later. grin grin grin



This is general to everyone of us in here....
While we must continue to research through academic inputs, let's not forget that innately, the human, without any training in literacy, is a natural explorer. In fact, the tools for conducting empirical studies are known to work counter to the natural impulse of the brain, given the complexity of stimulants sorrounding him in nature. They slow down his discovery and cause him to doubt his own capabilities. The Yoruba Akofa has a higher capacity of programming and superb recall in his brain cells than a professor of archaeology digging up artefacts in the field. The two are valuable resources to the quest for Yoruba origin. Just two years ago I encountered a hard reality. On way to meet for a very important event my phone will not recognize the sim in it. My contacts were saved in the sim, and not in the phone storage and I stopped storing numbers.....I let the phone do it for me. I could not call my contact and secure my place for the event. It's how it is! This is to admonish us to remember if Bill Gates was a Nigerian he would not have made it because many would have written him off as unqualified in the computer field. Same for Jobs, same for Zuckerburg. America is full of value legends, they are not credentialed in their area of dominance but they own and control its economic output....and it happened because people weighed their origination and saw a multiplying effect. Let the value legend in you spring forth!


Ire o!

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 8:42pm On Dec 06, 2018
MetaPhysical:



You take any ancient Hebrew root word and vowelize it, it magically turns into Yoruba...right there in your face. The truth is self-bearing, it does not to be sold to people. We have gone through this exercise here many many many times. People are hardened to what was taught them, and are afraid of opening their conscience to fly beyond the limits of the mind. We must sympathize with them, not force or deny their fears. grin


If one vowelize Hebrew root word, does not necessarily give you a Yoruba meaning but to vowelize the Yoruba alphabet's makes it more intriguing. Take for instance, there is an ancient Hebrew word called Reish/Resh is represented by a picture of a ‘HEAD'. This head is represented with one of the alphabet which is Hebrew letter “ ר " for "resh", and letter “ R" in English alphabet. Its comparison with its Yoruba's interpretation of letter, ‘R' as Ri— and understanding its evolution to ‘ORI', is beautiful to behold ........

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 9:05pm On Dec 06, 2018
macof:
lmao. funny how the hebrew word for catastrophe is "shoah" (שואה) a clear usage of the "sh" sound.
rather than make ridiculous claims, why not post a semitic linguists report on hebrew language not having the feature you say. Because so far you have no sources

lmao God has nothing to do with linguistics and history. leave religion out of those..its apparent that you are one of those whose brain has been fried by foreign religions.
Another example of the destructive nature of these religions in africa
I can see that you are desperate to proof a point with your interest in countering the truth with your acquisition of Hebrew knowledge. Although, my advise for you is to do research on old Hebrew, for you to feel the ‘HEAT grin cheesy' on the possibility of Middle East migration of Yorubas.

Google 'PEH' in Hebrew and read what it represent and used for . This word is an old Hebrew word and how it developed over thousands of years...

Enjoy your search.
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 5:28am On Dec 07, 2018
Olu317:


If one vowelize Hebrew root word, does not necessarily give you a Yoruba meaning but to vowelize the Yoruba alphabet's makes it more intriguing. Take for instance, there is an ancient Hebrew word called Reish/Resh is represented by a picture of a ‘HEAD'. This head is represented with one of the alphabet which is Hebrew letter “ ר " for "resh", and letter “ R" in English alphabet. Its comparison with its Yoruba's interpretation of letter, ‘R' as Ri— and understanding its evolution to ‘ORI', is beautiful to behold ........

I wrote a lengthy response but trying to move the tab and reposition the page I accidentaly closed it and lost everything. Very painful.


Let me summarize the best I can, Im not going to rewrite it.


As a result of assimilation, Yoruba has lost plenty of words and gained many many new words that have reshaped our tongue, vocabulary and word index.


Letters of the alphabet in Yoruba can be tabulated in a framework of power and significance. Beyond communication and expression, they have potency to address the environment and cosmos and produce manifest, visible or not.


You can take the seven vowels in Yoruba and distribute them in a 360degrees circle. Each vowel will occupy a 45degrees separation by time you complete to 270degrees. Fill the last 45degrees with the infinitum. This will give you a full octet. A, E, E, I, O, O, U, ~

Start from 0 point at the North cardinal.
At 45degrees position the A.
At 90degrees, E.
At 135degrees, put E.
At 180degrees, put the I.
At 225degrees, put O.
At 270degrees, put O.
At 315degrees, put U.
At 360degrees,put ~

A, E, E, I, O, O, U, ~, separated at 45 degrees apart to complete the circle. The infinitum is the hook, the endless combinations and compilations you can craft Yoruba letters and words into using the vowels.

R-A
R-E
R-E
R-I
R-O
R-O
R-U
R- ~



They can become in knowledge and learning what the periodic table is in chemistry. In fact it has always been there, in abstract form and usage. It needs to be recordedi n writing.


Just as a teaser since I mentioned chemistry, those we call caregivers now are medical practitioners. Their work has become specialized. In olden times a caregiver is the one who diagnose and same one who prescribe what balm or oil or elixir to give the sick. Those who perfected the principles of homeostasis, using metals, alkali and compunds and mixed the formulas into syrups, oils and tonics then administered it were called Alchemists. Olukemi in Yoruba is caregiver. Compare Olukemi and Alchemy.

--------------------------------

Ok, I believe there is something Im writing that is not meant for public. I just lost another portion of the write up. This is enough. grin grin grin


We will share some more bro.

3 Likes

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lx3as(m): 6:20am On Dec 08, 2018
OlaoChi:
Do Yoruba have oral histories of coming from Israel? Or are there any Yoruba cults that perform Hebrew rituals
Do Yoruba eat Hebrew food? Do Yoruba worship yahweh?
Is kingship in yorubaland formed after the kingship of Isreal?
Are there genetic haplogroups found in Semitic people dominant in yorubas?
Do Yoruba dress like Hebrews?

Simple questions. If the answer to any of these questions is no, then your Hebrew claims should be thrown out to the trash at the slightest sight of it. If you want to address these points do so with references and academic/traditional sources not more claims
@metaphysical @want2knowben :

See, Yorubas do not have just one history or migration but seem to be the same people.

In my own 'Omo Owa' family, ram is very important for male child (particularly first born) and his marriage; this is so the same with Abrahamic period. Now if you can't afford ram, rooster is used.

The story of 'akehinde gbegbon' is also so close to Jacob and Esau's story.

The story of 'Moremi and Eti' is simply that of Mary and Jesus. Furthermore, how she saved her people from Ugbo people is linked with salvation stories, Holy Mary or even Arabian Mariam story.

Yorubas name their kids on 7/8th day of their birth.

My findings so far are that:

Yorubas just like others in Africa except the Khoisan - Bushmen and Hottentots are not native to Africa.

Yorubas were among the first group that came to Africa with superior culture and dressing.

There were several migrations and many many experiences. Many actually settled among other tribes in Chad, Bornu, Zauzau, Kebbi, Adamawa, Delta and around River Benue and Niger confluence.

They were mainly Semitic (Omo Noah bi - respect to Shem, Omo ti Uwa bi, Omo Owa - Oduduwa's children). There are now Traditional, Christianity and Islamic influenced stories/conflicts of Yorubas' history.
We are just holding on to one that promotes our ego.

Original homes and influences:

Mesopotamia
Aramaic
Egypt

*Also Semitic Arabian Oman, Christianity influenced Phoenicians (we actually got our current days - Eti, Abameta and Aiku from this group migration, we originally had 4 days of Ogun, Orunmila, etc), Christian Catarge, Egyptian, Spanish and Morocco Jews, etc. also Yemeni.

Cush
Meroe
Oromo, etc.

However, we are now Yorubas; and there are some of us that do not want us to even trace our history but we're of Ife and Ife alone. They forgot that there are many older places in Yorubaland populated by Landing Atlantis, the first group probably Obatala, Ogun, etc group that shared almost everything with earliest Greeks; also Orunmila, and other Orissa from ancient and earliest Egypt. Many already settled around present Ondo and Ekiti before an organised settlement at Ife. Some came through the sea just like later Phoenicians and others through the East and dessert.

Also there were many other migration from far and near even when Owa's children already in charge in our land.

We can't use one tradition to judge, if I use mine, it points to middle eastern but at the same time the oral tradition in my house gives our ruling house and Quarters in Ife; How my forefathers left Ife with their Crown for a place close to present Bini, then back to Ido Ani to somewhere around Ise Akure, then to Ado and to our present location. Surprisingly, we met people everywhere but our kingship was recognised; some even said we were of Bini Origin so as not to allow us being in charge, this we laughed at.

The tropical regions we find ourselves and 'Awo' stuff really impaired archeological traces of our history. We now rely heavily on oral tradition and egocentric stories, even from the 'Awos'.

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 12:34pm On Dec 08, 2018
lx3as:


See, Yorubas do not have just one history or migration but seem to be the same people.

In my own 'Omo Owa' family, ram is very important for male child (particularly first born) and his marriage; this is so the same with Abrahamic period. Now if you can't afford ram, rooster is used.

The story of 'akehinde gbegbon' is also so close to Jacob and Esau's story.

The story of 'Moremi and Eti' is simply that of Mary and Jesus. Furthermore, how she saved her people from Ugbo people is linked with salvation stories, Holy Mary or even Arabian Mariam story.

Yorubas name their kids on 7/8th day of their birth.

My findings so far are that:

Yorubas just like others in Africa except the Khoisan - Bushmen and Hottentots are not native to Africa.

Yorubas were among the first group that came to Africa with superior culture and dressing.

There were several migrations and many many experiences. Many actually settled among other tribes in Chad, Bornu, Zauzau, Kebbi, Adamawa, Delta and around River Benue and Niger confluence.

They were mainly Semitic (Omo Noah bi - respect to Shem, Omo ti Uwa bi, Omo Owa - Oduduwa's children). There are now Traditional, Christianity and Islamic influenced stories/conflicts of Yorubas' history.
We are just holding on to one that promotes our ego.

Original homes and influences:

Mesopotamia
Aramaic
Egypt

*Also Semitic Arabian Oman, Christianity influenced Phoenicians (we actually got our current days - Eti, Abameta and Aiku from this group migration, we originally had 4 days of Ogun, Orunmila, etc), Christian Catarge, Egyptian, Spanish and Morocco Jews, etc. also Yemeni.

Cush
Monroe
Oromo, etc.

However, we are now Yorubas; and there are some of us that do not want us to even trace our history but we're of Ife and Ife alone. They forgot that there are many older places in Yorubaland populated by Landing Atlantis, the first group probably Obatala, Ogun, etc group that shared almost everything with earliest Greeks; also Orunmila, and other Orissa from ancient and earliest Egypt. Many already settled around present Ondo and Ekiti before an organised settlement at Ife. Some came through the sea just like later Phoenicians and others through the East and dessert.

Also there were many other migration from far and near even when Owa's children already in charge in our land.

We can't use one tradition to judge, if I use mine, it points to middle eastern but at the same time the oral tradition in my house gives our ruling house and Quarters in Ife; How my forefathers left Ife with their Crown for a place close to present Bini, then back to Ido Ani to somewhere around Ise Akure, then to Ado and to our present location. Surprisingly, we met people everywhere but our kingship was recognised; some even said we were of Bini Origin so as not to allow us being in charge, this we laughed at.

The tropical regions we find ourselves and 'Awo' stuff really impaired archeological traces of our history. We now rely heavily on oral tradition and egocentric stories, even from the 'Awos'.


Nice story you seem to know it all already, yet no references, no evidence. Just more claims

1 Like

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lx3as(m): 2:31pm On Dec 08, 2018
OlaoChi:


Nice story you seem to know it all already, yet no references, no evidence. Just more claims


Yes, claim if you said so, I'm not going to argue that. However, can you show me references of where it was published that Yorubas are originally native to Africa compared with these groups, Khoisan - Bushmen and Hottentots.

The earliest culture we were linked with was Nok; even the Bantus were originally from Nok.

2 Likes

Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by MetaPhysical: 5:54pm On Dec 08, 2018
lx3as:


See, Yorubas do not have just one history or migration but seem to be the same people.

In my own 'Omo Owa' family, ram is very important for male child (particularly first born) and his marriage; this is so the same with Abrahamic period. Now if you can't afford ram, rooster is used.

The story of 'akehinde gbegbon' is also so close to Jacob and Esau's story.

The story of 'Moremi and Eti' is simply that of Mary and Jesus. Furthermore, how she saved her people from Ugbo people is linked with salvation stories, Holy Mary or even Arabian Mariam story.

Yorubas name their kids on 7/8th day of their birth.

My findings so far are that:

Yorubas just like others in Africa except the Khoisan - Bushmen and Hottentots are not native to Africa.

Yorubas were among the first group that came to Africa with superior culture and dressing.

There were several migrations and many many experiences. Many actually settled among other tribes in Chad, Bornu, Zauzau, Kebbi, Adamawa, Delta and around River Benue and Niger confluence.

They were mainly Semitic (Omo Noah bi - respect to Shem, Omo ti Uwa bi, Omo Owa - Oduduwa's children). There are now Traditional, Christianity and Islamic influenced stories/conflicts of Yorubas' history.
We are just holding on to one that promotes our ego.

Original homes and influences:

Mesopotamia
Aramaic
Egypt

*Also Semitic Arabian Oman, Christianity influenced Phoenicians (we actually got our current days - Eti, Abameta and Aiku from this group migration, we originally had 4 days of Ogun, Orunmila, etc), Christian Catarge, Egyptian, Spanish and Morocco Jews, etc. also Yemeni.

Cush
Monroe
Oromo, etc.

However, we are now Yorubas; and there are some of us that do not want us to even trace our history but we're of Ife and Ife alone. They forgot that there are many older places in Yorubaland populated by Landing Atlantis, the first group probably Obatala, Ogun, etc group that shared almost everything with earliest Greeks; also Orunmila, and other Orissa from ancient and earliest Egypt. Many already settled around present Ondo and Ekiti before an organised settlement at Ife. Some came through the sea just like later Phoenicians and others through the East and dessert.

Also there were many other migration from far and near even when Owa's children already in charge in our land.

We can't use one tradition to judge, if I use mine, it points to middle eastern but at the same time the oral tradition in my house gives our ruling house and Quarters in Ife; How my forefathers left Ife with their Crown for a place close to present Bini, then back to Ido Ani to somewhere around Ise Akure, then to Ado and to our present location. Surprisingly, we met people everywhere but our kingship was recognised; some even said we were of Bini Origin so as not to allow us being in charge, this we laughed at.

The tropical regions we find ourselves and 'Awo' stuff really impaired archeological traces of our history. We now rely heavily on oral tradition and egocentric stories, even from the 'Awos'.


Back in ancient times civilization was possible through three areas of human activities 1) kingship; 2) priesthood: 3) production.

Kingship produced social hierarchies and organization of society via ideologies and creed. Under kingship are politics, defense and nationhood.
Priesthood produced social order and identity via ethos and uprightness. Cults of the various kinds, metaphysics, alchemy and rituals are here.
Production is the engagement of resources to do tasks that grow and preserve society. Agriculture, smithing, crafting, mining are under it.

Africa was first to civilize. Other civilizations of greatness were in the second, third, fourth and higher Tiers of civilization that borrowed from the originality in Africa. In Africa itself, there were two Tiers of civilizations.

The story of Noah and the deluge was a mythical depiction of those two civilizations, just as the story of Oduduwa descending down on a chain was a mythical depiction. Behind each of these stories there is a reality. The story is a stage play but also doubles as a crypted message and veil hiding certain secret knowledge from man.

The story before Noah's deluge was that of the aborigenes, an old world order, against the migrants, a new world order.

The story of Noah's journey in the boat with "two" of every kind was that of the migrants. The indigenes were not wiped out with water, no,...the water was targeted at the migrants themselves and served as their transport away from a place they previously knew into a new world order that takes its beginning with them. This separation continued to surface throughout the Bible. The Bible itself gave account of what transpired in real terms but also laced much of it in spiritual insights. Something went wrong with the Bible account.

The higher Tiers of civilizations that spread out from Africa began to insert new meanings and interpretations into that separation of the aborigenes and the migrants. The outcome at each stage of interpretation distorted from the original, and to a point that the aborigenes are excluded....but replaced by a new aborigine which is portrayed as cohabiting and existing in the same world order as the migrants.



In my own studies, reflections, inspections, analysis, understanding and belief, the original civilization was the RED civilization (erroneously called Nok). We do not know its name but for purpose of convenient discussion and reference NOK is accepted as its label.

That civilization was a culture, not just a power. At the beginning of man it covered the entire mid-riff of Africa from Atlantic to Indian Ocean (in the pre Rift-Valley tectonic shift when even Yemen and Oman was part of mainland Africa and the Red sea would have been like what Niger or Nile is today, a river!). That entire band across the geographic span was a culture of the RED civilization.


The migrants went North and formed a new settlement in Egypt. From here they gradually went EAST. From East they went back West. Then they re-migrated South. There are disconnected dots.

The quest here is to find those dots and reconnect them. We are using the knowledge that is backed by domented records to chase the footprints. That's why I am on the side of Yoruba being a Afro-Asian group.



more to come, I have to run....I dont like writing rushed responses but sometimes I have to while the thought is hot.

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Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by OlaoChi: 6:20pm On Dec 09, 2018
lx3as:


Yes, claim if you said so, I'm not going to argue that. However, can you show me references of where it was published that Yorubas are originally native to Africa compared with these groups, Khoisan - Bushmen and Hottentots.

The earliest culture we were linked with was Nok; even the Bantus were originally from Nok.

Of course you can't argue that. So much long talk but no single reference to some well known facts or mention of where you got your knowledge from.
That's how you know bullshit, because everything you said is guess work and a product of your wild imagination


Khoisan are not the only group native to Africa. Africa is large enough to have different sub-racial categories.
Africa has been occupied by humans longer than any other continent, it is after all in Africa that humanity originates from. The only region/people with questionable origin is North Africa which is a region of diverse people ranging from more Black to more Semitic(Arab), but even those who claim arab still have some black ancestors that mixed with the foreign invaders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcxLrIL4eKs
You should check YouTube for more videos of North African Arabs DNA results

Other regions of Africa have ancestors native to the continent

Check out the distribution of the dominant Y-DNA found in Yoruba people en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M2
It is the same dominate DNA all over Africa

Maybe it's because this is a faceless forum that makes you guys so comfortable with displaying your ignorance
Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lx3as(m): 10:08pm On Dec 09, 2018
OlaoChi:


Of course you can't argue that. So much long talk but no single reference to some well known facts or mention of where you got your knowledge from.
That's how you know bullshit, because everything you said is guess work and a product of your wild imagination


Khoisan are not the only group native to Africa. Africa is large enough to have different sub-racial categories.
Africa has been occupied by humans longer than any other continent, it is after all in Africa that humanity originates from. The only region/people with questionable origin is North Africa which is a region of diverse people ranging from more Black to more Semitic(Arab), but even those who claim arab still have some black ancestors that mixed with the foreign invaders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcxLrIL4eKs
You should check YouTube for more videos of North African Arabs DNA results

Other regions of Africa have ancestors native to the continent

Check out the distribution of the dominant Y-DNA found in Yoruba people en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M2
It is the same dominate DNA all over Africa

Maybe it's because this is a faceless forum that makes you guys so comfortable with displaying your ignorance

That's why I stopped commenting here because of insults from uncultured fellas like you, Some of you just want your egocentric opinions to be accepted by everyone when you know nothing.

You have not given any reference on how earliest known humans on earth transformed into Yorubas and how people were blocked from migrating from one continent to another; at least you should have shown us references on how no one migrated to present Yorubaland. We all know that human ancestors started in Africa but not in West Africa and there have been migrations to and fro.

Next time please learn to give your superior points, if you ever have one, without calling other ignorant; this only gives you up as someone from the 'other side', Omoluabi would never have been so abusive.

PS As a Yoruba man I never doubted Ile-Ife being the source of human creation but I suspect it to be a different location beyond the present one; it might be anywhere withing Africa or Midle East.
Oral tradition is passed down from generation to generation even after there was migration of the people. Each generation with her own unique history and the mixtures of generations that moved at different periods to become one people would definitely lead to different histories of origin and confusion.

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