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On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- - Religion (22) - Nairaland

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Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by philfearon(m): 11:18am On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

The question you should be asking if you were a bible scholar is what is the purpose of baptism and not what you are asking. Baptism is meant for the remission of sins isnt it? Jesus said that all righteousness should be fulfilled and note that all this while God never said anything until after He was baptized that was when the holy spirit descended like a dove and God said this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased. Baptism is mean for remission of sins
And this is Jesus' answer?
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 11:20am On Aug 17, 2013
philfearon:
Am not with my bible where i am now,i could have quoted what i wanted to say now....
When John The Baptist refused to Baptise Jesus,saying it should be the other way round,what did Jesus Say to Him?


[b]Why, then, did Jesus come to be baptized by John? To fulfill God's righteous requirements. Jesus was the true Israelite who would obey God over against the disobedience of Adam and all the peoples of the world. Finally there had come one whose passion it was to obey God. As Paul said in Romans 5:19, "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man the many will be made righteous." All have sinned and have come short of the glory of God, but here came one man, the true Israelite, who would fulfill all righteousness, all the righteous requirements of God, and who would, without fail, obey all God's laws perfectly.

In other words, as Jesus was being baptized by John, he was identifying with the elect sinners. There was no sin in him, but there was sin on him. The sinless one bore our sins. In this baptism Jesus publicly assumed the work of the Messiah, his God-given responsibility of taking away the sin of the world. As I said before, one purpose of John's baptism was that the Messiah be revealed to Israel. This baptism of Jesus announced to the world that he, Jesus, one day was going to be baptized with fire, meaning suffering, on behalf of his people.[/b]

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by italo: 11:23am On Aug 17, 2013
philfearon:
I dont think u have ever answered a question directly right?
Can u ever answer a question directly for once in ur life?

Oh! You too have noticed.

That is not all. Wait until he starts telling blatant lies...
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by italo: 11:25am On Aug 17, 2013
superior1:

If you keep using words of that nature, you will keep demonstrating the quality of your upbringing. The Bible told us He ignored her and refused to meet her, that's all.

Aha! He didnt take long. Here come the lies.

The bible never said so.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by philfearon(m): 11:28am On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:


[b]Why, then, did Jesus come to be baptized by John? To fulfill God's righteous requirements. Jesus was the true Israelite who would obey God over against the disobedience of Adam and all the peoples of the world. Finally there had come one whose passion it was to obey God. As Paul said in Romans 5:19, "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man the many will be made righteous." All have sinned and have come short of the glory of God, but here came one man, the true Israelite, who would fulfill all righteousness, all the righteous requirements of God, and who would, without fail, obey all God's laws perfectly.

In other words, as Jesus was being baptized by John, he was identifying with the elect sinners. There was no sin in him, but there was sin on him. The sinless one bore our sins. In this baptism Jesus publicly assumed the work of the Messiah, his God-given responsibility of taking away the sin of the world. As I said before, one purpose of John's baptism was that the Messiah be revealed to Israel. This baptism of Jesus announced to the world that he, Jesus, one day was going to be baptized with fire, meaning suffering, on behalf of his people.[/b]
Like seriously,you have a problem......I just asked you a simple question...........Look at the Rubbish u just took ur time to type.......a simple "to fulfil all righteousness",would have been the best answer,dont u think so?
You claim and think u know too much...But watch urself......
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 11:33am On Aug 17, 2013
philfearon:
Like seriously,you have a problem......I just asked you a simple question...........Look at the Rubbish u just took ur time to type.......a simple "to fulfil all righteousness",would have been the best answer,dont u think so?
You claim and think u know too much...But watch urself......

I love my God and His words are life to me hence my in depth knowledge. You should try it sometime grin

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 11:37am On Aug 17, 2013
You people should free this guys abegi!! Some of them still need to hustle to contribute to Daddy GO's 3km long church
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by italo: 11:41am On Aug 17, 2013
@ Philfearon,

If you must waste your energy, waste it talking to the liar and hypocrite.

Ignore that mentally deranged one.

Whoever argues with a mad man...

Let his long meaningless posts go unanswered.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by philfearon(m): 11:43am On Aug 17, 2013
italo: @ Philfearon,

If you must waste your energy, waste it talking to the liar and hypocrite.

Ignore that mentally deranged one.

Whoever argues with a mad man...

Let his long meaningless posts go unanswered.
tnx...
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 11:44am On Aug 17, 2013
italo: @ Philfearon,

If you must waste your energy, waste it talking to the liar and hypocrite.

Ignore that mentally deranged one.

Whoever argues with a mad man...

Let his long meaningless posts go unanswered.

My posts are long and meaningless to you because you do not have a reading culture. All you need is your catechism pamphlet. How convenient.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 11:46am On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

Why did the bible say that He that knew no sin was made sin? Why did the bible say that. In Romans 8:3 it declares "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh". Now dispute that scripture with your own analogy and mindset
in that same verse, when apostle paul said, ''God condemned sin in human nature by sending his own son, WHO CAME WITH A NATURE LIKE OUR SINFUL NATURE, to do away with sin'', what came to your mind? That Jesus was actually with sin when he came to this world?

The capitalised should enlighten you more.
He came IN OUR SINFUL NATURE...meaning he came in form of human.
That is why he is both God and Man...at the same time, then.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by philfearon(m): 11:58am On Aug 17, 2013
doclan: a set of people that did what?(lemme help U.. Set of people dat believed in d gospel of Christ and followed the Apostles teaching) wat am saying in essence is catholic is clearly different from new testament christianity. Mind U, nt jst catholics but all those who ve neglected the pure doctrine of Christ.. ALL I MEAN. Dnt cee me as an anti-catholic bt a voice crying out for us all to amend our ways and go back to what Christianity used to be.
What does xtianity used to Look like?
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by philfearon(m): 12:01pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

My posts are long and meaningless to you because you do not have a reading culture. All you need is your catechism pamphlet. How convenient.
if u have read the Books i have read in this world,that means nobody will hear word again for u...
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 12:15pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:


[b]Why, then, did Jesus come to be baptized by John? To fulfill God's righteous requirements. Jesus was the true Israelite who would obey God over against the disobedience of Adam and all the peoples of the world. Finally there had come one whose passion it was to obey God. As Paul said in Romans 5:19, "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man the many will be made righteous." All have sinned and have come short of the glory of God, but here came one man, the true Israelite, who would fulfill all righteousness, all the righteous requirements of God, and who would, without fail, obey all God's laws perfectly.

In other words, as Jesus was being baptized by John, he was identifying with the elect sinners. There was no sin in him, but there was sin on him. The sinless one bore our sins. In this baptism Jesus publicly assumed the work of the Messiah, his God-given responsibility of taking away the sin of the world. As I said before, one purpose of John's baptism was that the Messiah be revealed to Israel. This baptism of Jesus announced to the world that he, Jesus, one day was going to be baptized with fire, meaning suffering, on behalf of his people.[/b]
...like my brother said, ''to fullfill all righteousness'' would have been suitable.
its just like this series ''Prison Break''
For Micheal to achieve his aim, he became a prisoner to..
pls explain the human nature of Jesus to me...
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 1:42pm On Aug 17, 2013
The B-I-B-L-E is good enough for me, I stand upon the word of God: the B-I-B-L-E!!!

Just as d heavens are higher than the earth, so are his ways than our ways. Ur knowledge of Prison Break cannot be used to understand the bible.

Stick to the word of God. The word of Life. Denounce occultism and sorcery practices.

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by italo: 2:23pm On Aug 17, 2013
jdbabzy: The B-I-B-L-E is good enough for me, I stand upon the word of God: the B-I-B-L-E!!!

Just as d heavens are higher than the earth, so are his ways than our ways. Ur knowledge of Prison Break cannot be used to understand the bible.

Stick to the word of God. The word of Life. Denounce occultism and sorcery practices.

It was the Catholic Church that told you that the Bible is the word of God.

Jesus never even mentioned "Bible."
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by achi4u(m): 4:03pm On Aug 17, 2013
Maria-Goretti:
...like my brother said, ''to fullfill all righteousness'' would have been suitable.
its just like this series ''Prison Break''
For Micheal to achieve his aim, he became a prisoner to..
pls explain the human nature of Jesus to me...
Maria G. how far nay...long time.
That 'prison break ' is something else.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 4:19pm On Aug 17, 2013
Maria-Goretti:
...like my brother said, ''to fullfill all righteousness'' would have been suitable.
its just like this series ''Prison Break''
For Micheal to achieve his aim, he became a prisoner to..
pls explain the human nature of Jesus to me...

Since you have chosen to condescend to using Prison Break as a test case example i would like to ask a simple question. For Michael to become a prisoner did he or did he not commit a crime deliberately after which he knew for sure that once he was caught in the act, prison would be the outcome?

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 4:26pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

Since you have chosen to condescend to using Prison Break as a test case example i would like to ask a simple question. For Michael to become a prisoner did he or did he not commit a crime deliberately after which he knew for sure that once he was caught in the act, prison would be the outcome?
of course he committed a crime to be there.
I just used that as an illustration....that Jesus condescended to be a man in other to save us...TO FULLFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS but that doesnt mean that HE HAS SIN IN HIM...HE IS WITHOUT SIN EVEN WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH because he is GOD.
I knew you will capitalize on that 'prison break' thingy.
TO WHOM BRAIN IS GIVEN, MUCH SENSE IS REQUIRED....!

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 4:28pm On Aug 17, 2013
jdbabzy: The B-I-B-L-E is good enough for me, I stand upon the word of God: the B-I-B-L-E!!!

Just as d heavens are higher than the earth, so are his ways than our ways. Ur knowledge of Prison Break cannot be used to understand the bible.

Stick to the word of God. The word of Life. Denounce occultism and sorcery practices.
..you are lost indeed..
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 4:30pm On Aug 17, 2013
achi4u: Maria G. how far nay...long time.
That 'prison break ' is something else.
lol, honey, dont mind me jare...this nysc stuff just swallowed my time...thank god it will soon be over
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 5:01pm On Aug 17, 2013
Maria-Goretti:
of course he committed a crime to be there.
I just used that as an illustration....that Jesus condescended to be a man in other to save us...TO FULLFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS but that doesnt mean that HE HAS SIN IN HIM...HE IS WITHOUT SIN EVEN WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH because he is GOD.
I knew you will capitalize on that 'prison break' thingy.
TO WHOM BRAIN IS GIVEN, MUCH SENSE IS REQUIRED....!

Thank God you said that Jesus condescended to be a man in order to save us. So whom did Mary give birth to? Jesus the man or Jesus the God?
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by philfearon(m): 5:07pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

Thank God you said that Jesus condescended to be a man in order to save us. So whom did Mary give birth to? Jesus the man or Jesus the God?
Only a fool Will ask this question u just asked.....
Rhetorics............begging The Question(PETITIO PRINCIPI)......
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 5:15pm On Aug 17, 2013
philfearon:
Only a fool Will ask this question u just asked.....
Rhetorics............begging The Question(PETITIO PRINCIPI)......

Did i use insulting words on you? If you have nothing to say just walk on by and stop ranting pls
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 5:25pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

Thank God you said that Jesus condescended to be a man in order to save us. So whom did Mary give birth to? Jesus the man or Jesus the God?
ah ah, ki lo sele?
Ok o, she gave birth to Son of God made man to save us....
Abi, e no dey your bible?
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 5:28pm On Aug 17, 2013
Maria-Goretti:
ah ah, ki lo sele?
Ok o, she gave birth to Son of God made man to save us....
Abi, e no dey your bible?

If she gave birth to the Son of God when did he become Man? Before or after birth or during birth?
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 5:41pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

If she gave birth to the Son of God when did he become Man? Before or after birth or during birth?
do you know the meaning of ''conceive''?
If you dont look it up, ok.
When Jesus agreed to come to the world human form, how do you think he came?
He passed through all the biological process involved...from conception to his birth.
So, he started forming in Mary's womb as a man immediately the angel announced to Mary about God's will.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 5:43pm On Aug 17, 2013
Maria-Goretti:
ah ah, ki lo sele?
Ok o, she gave birth to Son of God made man to save us....
Abi, e no dey your bible?

[b]Jesus always referred to Himself as the Son of man. In divinity he was the son of God but not in the flesh. In the flesh he was the Son of man. However He came as the son of man (in the flesh) in order to show man that it was possible to obey God till the end. Something the First Adam couldnt do, He the second Adam came and did. As long as he was in the flesh he was a man and not God which was why when Peter gained the insight of God and called Him the son of the living God he said flesh and blood has not revealed it to Peter but His father in heaven did. As a man he wept, he slept, he hungered, he suffered thirst. Qualities that God didnt have. As a man he got Angry, he called men Hypocrites and vipers and serpents. As the son of God he knew the mind of God and wanted man to see it manifest in Him. Including how to live in this sin laden world in total obedience to God. He had the Holy Spirit hence he could achieve it and we didnt have it so he said tarry until you are endued with Power from on high (the holy spirit). The apostles became new men the moment the holy spirit came upon them. The person whom men crucified was the son of man but from heaven God was seeing His son being crucified this was what made him a perfect sacrifice. If men knew who he was they would not have crucified him but alas they knew not.
So to them a man was being killed but to God His son was being killed and to God there was no greater sacrifice than this and this was why Christ asked God to forgive his killers for they did not know what they were doing but God did because it was His will all along[/b]

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 5:46pm On Aug 17, 2013
with my last expose i would like to let you know that Mary gave birth to a man child in the flesh and not a God Child in divinity. Do not let this confuse you. If it does then it does prove that a carnal man can never understand the things of the spirit.

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 5:51pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia:

[b]Jesus always referred to Himself as the Son of man. In divinity he was the son of God but not in the flesh. In the flesh he was the Son of man. However He came as the son of man (in the flesh) in order to show man that it was possible to obey God till the end. Something the First Adam couldnt do, He the second Adam came and did. As long as he was in the flesh he was a man and not God which was why when Peter gained the insight of God and called Him the son of the living God he said flesh and blood has not revealed it to Peter but His father in heaven did. As a man he wept, he slept, he hungered, he suffered thirst. Qualities that God didnt have. As a man he got Angry, he called men Hypocrites and vipers and serpents. As the son of God he knew the mind of God and wanted man to see it manifest in Him. Including how to live in this sin laden world in total obedience to God. He had the Holy Spirit hence he could achieve it and we didnt have it so he said tarry until you are endued with Power from on high (the holy spirit). The apostles became new men the moment the holy spirit came upon them. The person whom men crucified was the son of man but from heaven God was seeing His son being crucified this was what made him a perfect sacrifice. If men knew who he was they would not have crucified him but alas they knew not.
So to them a man was being killed but to God His son was being killed and to God there was no greater sacrifice than this and this was why Christ asked God to forgive his killers for they did not know what they were doing but God did because it was His will all along[/b]
hian, nna, you shouldnt have gone through all this stress nah...are we not saying same thing?
Ok, without this long epistle you wont feel at ease.
Well am sorry I dont know how to write epistles...I just go straight to the point and understandable statement.
Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by Nobody: 5:57pm On Aug 17, 2013
[b]Do you know that in the new testament the words Son of Man was used 88 times?. In Hebrew Son of Man means Son of Adam. Many sceptical scholars believe that Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man, because it is unlikely to have been an invention of the early Church. For example, in the Gospels, ‘Son of Man’ is Jesus’ favourite self-designation. Yet in the epistles, it is never used of Jesus. In fact, the term appears in the New Testament only 4 times outside of the Gospels and never in extra-biblical Christian writings during the first 120 years following Jesus. The point is: How likely is it that the Church originated the title Son of Man as Jesus’ favourite self-description, when the Church itself did not refer to him in this manner?

So what did Jesus mean when He called Himself the Son of Man? Some surmise that the term places an emphasis on Jesus’ humanity compared to ‘Son of God’ which places an emphasis on His divinity. But this fails to take into account the significant historical context in which Jesus uses the term and how He understood it. How Jesus understood the term ‘Son of Man’ is important, since He used it of Himself more than any other term.

To find the answer, let us go back to the Old Testament and look at what the prophet Daniel said.

‘In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.’ (Daniel 7:13-14)

Daniel speaks of the ‘son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power . . .’

With this in mind, consider these statements of Jesus in the New Testament Gospels:

‘For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.’ (John 5:27)

‘At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.’ (Matthew 24:30 [italics mine])

‘So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. But in those days, following that distress, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.’ (Mark 13:24-27)

‘At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.’ (Luke 21:27)


It seems obvious from these scriptures that when Jesus spoke of Himself as being the Son of Man, He had Daniel 7 in mind.
In addition, some first century Jews identified the Son of Man as also the Christ or Messiah.
Jesus had just spoken of His death by crucifixion as being ‘lifted up.’ The crowd responded, ‘We have heard from the Law that the Christ will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up?’ Who is this ‘Son of Man?’’
Jesus also believed the Son of Man, the Son of God, and the Messiah (Christ) were the same person. Not only did He claim to be all three separately, but in an interesting passage He responds in the affirmative to the Jewish leadership’s linking both Son of God and Christ, then adds Son of Man:
‘The high priest said to him, ‘I charge you under oath by the living God:

Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.’ ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’ Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, ‘He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?’ ‘He is worthy of death,’ they answered.’ (Matthew 26:63-66)


Finally, Jesus understood the Son of Man to exist prior to His human birth:

‘No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.’ (John 3:13)

‘What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!’ (John 6:62)

In summary, Jesus’ favourite term to refer to Himself was ‘Son of Man.’ He understood the designation to refer to the divine Son of Man of Daniel 7 who would rule with glory and power. Moreover, He understood the Son of Man also to be the pre-existent Son of God and Messiah. Who did Jesus think He was? Clearly He thought He was the divine Son of Man.[/b]

1 Like

Re: On The Most Blessed Virgin Mary- Teachings Of The Early Church Fathers- by MariaGoretti: 5:58pm On Aug 17, 2013
naijadeyhia: with my last expose i would like to let you know that Mary gave birth to a man child in the flesh and not a God Child in divinity. Do not let this confuse you. If it does then it does prove that a carnal man can never understand the things of the spirit.
FYI, there was never a time Jesus as the son of God was seperated from Jesus as the son of man.
Like I said before, even when he came to the world as a man, he is still God..
So, whats the confusion about? You are trying to differentiate the two personalities as two different personsbut my brother, he is just one and he possessed both of them on earth.
He accepted to do the will of God that was the reason he came to this world as a man..so that that aim can be acheived effectively...because I know that God can always do whatever he wanted to do without even sacrificing his son but he did it anyway...so, who am I to question him?

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